Thanks for sharing this. 👍

Thanks Ian, this is what I like you about many of your videos you go at them so analytically, you end up showing us great step by step processes. It allows us to see cause, application and then affect through out the situation very well.

We did a formic pro 2 pad treatment with a super on to give them some space due to the warmth but the colonies that got it made our queen excluders rusty, our screened bottom boards it appeared it took off the galvanization. I noticed on some of the new frames that we had all the nail heads were visibly rusty as well. It doesn't look like you have much metal in your hives but it would be interesting to see your pallet clips and the mesh in the bucket after you are finished. It is a great tool but it is rather corrosive. If I did it again I'd be sure to have a plastic excluder in and we have since painted the screen in our screened bottom boards to help protect them. Hopefully this will give you the quick knock down you need. It'll be interesting to see how the 1 pad vs 2 pad will bounce back. Thanks for sharing.

I have not had any trouble with queen loss and always use two pads. As long as the colonies are strong and temps are not high in first three days. I do plan to replace my queens after but have usually had to kill the old queen. I am in Central Washington. Good luck thanks for the video.

I've been using maqs for the last five years or so. I've never had any issues with it. I apply mid flow in the middle of summer

Thanks for allowing us to follow along. So far it seems as though the single pad is the way to go hopefully with similar results in the end.

With as large as your operation, I would had requested the Formic Rep for treatment to follow just what you are doing. Something to be careful is the age. According to Reps Formic gets stronger with age and can collapse hives. I learned the hard way. As a small beekeeper I cannot afford to lose hives. We all wish there was a sure fire way to do the job. I wish more bee keepers would document their recent Formic with location and temps during treatment.and dates. This is very helpful to the new beekeepers. Best Wishes, I always enjoy your presentations and your Videos. And this is why the 2024 NA Bee Expo presentations were all full.

The same thing happens with my hives, too. When I first started using it, I thought I kicked off a swarm as the front of the hive was bearded up like crazy. After a day, everyone was back in the hive, and I used two strips per hive. Some queen can handle it, some cannot, but I've been having pretty good luck thus far with no deaths.

We do Formic, and did notice a stall when we had the Formic on. First inspection after and 6 of 7 hives were back to 4-6 frames of brood. We did lose 1 queen. They can bounce back quickly.

I have used Formic the past two years with success. It definitely knocks out mites, but also is hard on the bees…. Killing a bug on a bug! But I use it after the summer flow, due to it being hard on the bees…. The queen stops laying… and using it this time of year will set them back for honey production. I would suggest trying this experiment as your end of season mite treatment, not mid-season.

Thanks for keeping us informed as to your experience with this product.

If your temperatures stayed within range then you should be good. It's those hiccups in temperature or rain that always got me. Praying for your bees.

I used for the first time also the formic acid technique and I had the same result as you do have right now ( also missed the spring flow ) but as soon as the summer flow started the bees got back at the top box ,Queen started laying eggs fast and I saw very nice progress all that in 10 days. Hope it works out for you as it did for me ,much love from Greece

I think Formic acid is very hard on the bees especially when you are trying to build into 2 boxes. You would have to do some testing on mite knockdown compared with oxalic and/or Apivar. Lots more work in a tough busy time of year for you Ian.

Maybe the smell of the formic strips are overcoming the queen pheromones, so the bees are trying to stay closer to the queen?

I said it’s like a sledgehammer. If that double brood has condensed down to a ball in the bottom box you are probably given over treating because it’s now not two brood of bees.

That's what Meagan suggested here in Michigan formic June 1st .. what she does and she considered smartest bee person in Michigan.. I'm sure it helps with swarming as well.. 2 strips seem to be really effective one seems less effective from what I'm seeing

Formic pro one pad may not penetrate the brood so you have to do another strip after the first one making the treatment period longer. I prefer the two strip if temps are in range. Since you had already treated with Apivar this treatment maybe could have waited unless the Apivar did not work and you had to do a re-treat. Formic is a good product. Good luck working with it and figuring it out as to when/how it will fit into your program.

Totally agree Ian The weather this year hasnt been helpfull for 6 weeks we had great blooms but not many days of flying weather . Ive been feeding and supplementing all spring to stimulate brood rearing . 3-4 weeks to go untill crops start blooming im hoping they are late as well . It will be interesting to see the final results of your 1 or 2 strip test . I hope the mite reduction compensates for the interuption the strips cause . Thanks for the video !

Your Analysis with you test is accurate. No silver bullet for mites.

I've never lost a queen in my hives using formic pro. Ambient temp and the first three days is critical. Amitraz strips don't kill mites here in eastern WV. Commercial guys here still use 20-30% taktic diluted in oil. Formic pro seems to work for me.

Glad you are giving this a try. I would like to try Formic acid myself but need more evidence it's not going to kill my queens. Your videos are always insightful.👍

Hello. I watched you put them on and I agree with your assessment completely. It is my understanding that stuff gasses off and the vapors kill mites... RE. one strip or two... the environment (hive) is the same size and ventilation we will assume stays the same (given bee activity maybe even lower than normal.) but the rate of gas off would be double. This would create a concentration much higher than 2X the single strip application. I strongly expect 3-5 times the gas inside a hive with two strips as apposed to one. We need a 'litmus' paper for the formic concentration. Place a piece in each corner of the hive and when the paper changes color you know you have had the right concentration reach the paper. Time will tell. cheers

"Oh my nerves", I can hear you now. Blake Hardy in Ontario has posted some good info on formic and meat pads on his 8000 hives.

So unnerving to see colonies appear to go backwards just when we want them to build up! Hopefully next week you will start to see the "bounce back".

In my opinion (after using two strips of Formic Pro for three years) Two strips are way too hard on the bees, especially in a short season area like northern Michigan and Canada. I tried one strip for ten days followed by a second strip for 10 days last year. It was easier on the bees (less death and i didn’t lose any queens like I did with two pads) but I didn’t get very much honey and had to feed heavy going into winter.

Ian you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. It will set them back. Question is will they be able to recover enough and soon enough when your main flow hits. The ones with one strip will recover much quicker and better than the 2 strip ones but depending on the pretreatment mite pressure how much help you will get from it. Formic works but I stopped using it because of how it sets the colonies back and the higher the temperature gets the worse it becomes. Your temps are low enough so that will help but if the temperature jumps up for some reason it can be a disaster. I have had it happen. I'm a brood break and OAV guy now .

You should consider putting Randy Oliver’s oxalic acid pads in your hives. I do two rounds through the summer, about 6 weeks each. It has kept my mite load very low. I will generally get zero or maybe one mite in my tests. I usual use formic pro in September, but I have experienced 20% queen loss, and I’m not sure I’m going to use it again.

What is the weather like . Hot, cool, humidity, ..these all play a part. I'm sure you know.

Thx for sharing Ian. Hopefully the 1 strip works well. The 2 strip really looks devastating to the colony.

Formic was my treatment for a couple of decades.. but I never had those ready made pads in my hand... l had liters of liquid formic 60% and 80% and sponges in plastic bags (even tried in empty frame feeders) bags with a slit cut long and narrow and a syringe. Usually used 60% on top.. for 3 -4 weeks.. coming back every week to add 60 -70 mil with the syringe on the sponge under the cover with a rim. 80% was diluted with distilled water to 60.. or used with pollen collecting bottoms in full strength in the tray.. but the top with the rim and sponge in plastic bags is the way to go. I'm sure there are beekeepers out there with other methods for formic. And I understand this are videos that everybody watches. You still could buy some liquid to clean rust.. it's very good for it

Steady.....Steady.....Stay the course.

I don't like formic acid no matter which application. it's effectiveness is strongly whether dependent, it weakens the bees massively and even under optimal conditions it's relatively weak compared to oxalic acid in a brood free colony. However, using oxalic requires massive changes in your system, like caging the queen or removing the brood to build nukes. However, in my opinion it's worth trying but quite labor intensive in such a large scale. Nevertheless, good luck with formic. May you try to get queens from Paul Jungels, tbey are supposed to be mite resistant!

The experiments already been done. The entire advantage of FP is it kills under the cappings. But that requires 2 pads. One just doesn't do it. Feeding while treating can be a problem.

Stuff is harsh. However, it’s effective, but that effectiveness comes with a cost. Kills brood, causes absconding occasionally, and can injure/kill the queen. That being said, it kills the hell out of the mites.

It’s nerve wracking at first but trust me they bounce back with force

I experienced roughly 10% queen loss using full strength MAQS And Formic Pro. I've been using the single pad application for several years now with no queen loss and really good mite knockdown.

I've always used 1 pad x 10 days and then repeat. Mine beard at first but by the next day they're back to normal although I've noticed they fly a bit less. Have never lost a queen and the brood just explodes after treatment.

The nice thing with Formic Pro is that it kills off the old and sick bees quickly the first couple days which is a means to cull out any illness. Also single pad is less likely to get a good penetration of brood under cappings so that's why 10 + 10 day single application to get the later emergence.

Personally, I would rather have a touch of regression from Formic instead of the complete collapse that mites can cause. Like I said before, I have never had queen or hive loss due to formic when I follow the guidelines provided. Just my experience. Good luck! Oh, I always do two consecutive treatments of one formic pad.

Another awesome video to learn from. Those colonies may have not been strong enough for 2 strips. They die and abscond. Happens with my checkmite+. Shorter duration or half a strip. Why aren't there 500 bees swarming and fighting around the base of your pails? I saw the one. at the end. Mine always do, every year, every time. Seems no one else i watch has this issue.

Un genio 🐝👏👏👏👏☕😎

During the their presentation on youtube about this formic pro last month, I was so curious how many ml of formic they put in 1 strip of formic pro I asked. But unfortunately they told me they don't know. I used formic acid in 12 years as part of treatment rotation, but I haven't try this formic pro yet.

I like Formic pro it works great if you have the right temps for it… I do however not use the full treatment (2strips) unless the hive is a real banger I have found that 1 strip knocks the mites off just fine … those hives will jump back into action in a week or two … I have found Formic does a better job than Apivar …( very disappointed in Apivar) that shit does not work and is expensive

Evrrytime I use formic it is hard on em but they bounce back so strong but it will run em down in my experience alot I use it after the flow in early summer I also see em requeen too during the two strip ordeal

man how are you not choking on the formic fumes? I wear a mask and gloved when handling any of it!

I have been doing the meat pad wipes with 40 ml formic in June and again after honey flow. Doesn't seem to effect the bees quite as badly as the long term treatments. It is definitely more work though reapplying and making pads

Wow, just don’t know what to say, do you sacrifice a little now to gain later?

Don’t fret they will be good, you may have a few issues but those would have been problems anyway.

Well the first three days are the worst and then the fumes subside and the bees get back to work. Will you be doing the 2nd pad after 10 days or skip it if your mite washes are low?

Are you planning to give the one-strip colonies another strip later to make two in total but over more time?

I didn't have a problem with it killing the bees. But i had a lot of absconds. Will not be using it again

Following this closely

I used one strip and I thought that was well enough. Sydney Australia.

Thoughts on the manufacturer’s instructions not to feed while treating? I’ve used the last three years, both single x 2 and double pad methods… it’s hard to watch the first several days but have had good results…

in the last video there were comments saying 2 strips were to much

The sad thing about formic pro is that it costs too much.

Tried Formic once....never again...totally disrupted the hives...I'll look elsewhere for mite control

Wasnt Oxalic acid treatment what you usually do for Mite treatment ? Why the switch over to Formic acid ? Also isnt formic acid what ants use to attack/defend themselves ? I wonder if plant-based extracts that naturally repel certain worms but not nectar-feeders exist that would knockdown or even kill varroa mites.

Prob left that shit is hard on them it’s not good makes me feel sad 😢you will slow them queens down with that stuff we don’t have long season

Some nasty stuff never had good experience with it. Queen killer 💯

I hate see those hive like that. I can’t remember who I read it from I think Randy Oliver about putting the wrapper over the top to make it a slower release. But it’s been a Few year since I read that. And the cost for all these kite treatments is crazy

according to support: 2 pads = capped brood penetration. you likely knew that already.

Do you have brood in the top box. Looks terrible for the bees

Are you putting another strip on after 10 days?

The moment you put formic in your colony your queen was compromised. It doesn’t always show right away but there’s definitely some ill effects. It’s a harsh product. It does kill mites though

Formic pro? Might as well order another 1000 queens now.

They always look bad at first .in a week you'll never know it.

Too much Formic, talk to Bob Bonnie and his experience last year. I lost hives like Bob last year. I only use one strip.

Just like that your not a formic pro man 😅😂