The charging curve seems to be the LG 5L 79 kWh battery pack we are getting in Europe since a few years. This is definitely charging slower than the Panasonic 82 kWh pack from the new Model 3 Performance, and much slower than the old 75 kWh Panasonic pack from the classic Model 3 2017 to 2020.

"I hope Tesla takes charging seriously in 2024!" Tesla in 2024: Lays off the charging department.

Out of Spec doing such a public service with all these tests... thanks guys! 🙏

The battery is the LG, which has not been a great charging battery compared to the Panasonic.

Thanks, Andy!

Phew… feeling pretty good about my 2023 RWD 😊. I’ve always felt that even though it has low peak speeds, its insane efficiency and decent curve make it a great road tripper. It barely slows my family down at all compared to ICE and is usually ready to continue the trip before us when we stop to charge.

Thanks Andy!

2024 M3 LR is using LG battery pack which I believe is 79kwh and should have 250kw peak charge rate according to Tesla site. 2023 M3 RWD uses CATL 60kwh battery pack. Tesla Model Y and Model 3 performance are using Panasonic 82kwh pack made in Nevada. Both my M3 Performance MY LR have better charging performance than the LG pack and will pull 250kw from about 10-25% before starting to taper and usually still pulling 115kw at 50%. While it’s still decent charging, I agree that Tesla needs to improve the charge curve.

saw near identical chare behavior with my 23 M3LR on a road trip last weekend. nearly identical conditions.

My new 2024 Austin built long range Model Y only charges at 250kw for just a minute or 2. My 2019 long range Model 3 holds 250kw for several minutes.

Must be the new battery. Maybe still playing it safe as they collect data. My 2023 model Y LR consistently charges at 250kw up to roughly 28% before starting to taper.

I did this test on my 2022 LR Model 3 with 18" wheels last summer in FL. I got peak charging speeds and it added 36 kwh in 15 minutes. I drove 121 miles at 80 mph to get it back down to 10%.

Somehow I got a better result in the Model Y RWD (without software unlock for full pack)? This is quite surprising.

I've been thinking about this today after watching Brandon's 2024 MY video and now this. I think when looking at charging curve graphs, you should normalize the X axis to raw kWh and not percentages. Percentages are misleading. That's why marketing loves them.

So glad my 2023 YLR doesnt have the new 4680 battery: a gift for shareholders, not for owners.

What sucks here is Tesla really hasn’t changed their battery charge rates on M3 since release in 2018.

Tesla as fallen behind in charging speeds, like you said Kyle. Like the charging speed are okay but definitely not class leading, gotta wonder if this was part of the reason Tesla charger team got let go. Tesla could really use that Catl fast charging collaboration to bear fruit quickly. While I'm looking to buy the new model 3 performance or the Juniper Model Y, I wanna wait for the faster charging batteries to be put into all new Tesla vehicles, sure I'm not the only one that is waiting.

Yep, the LG 5L pack charging curve really disappoints. Actually that's what is currently holding me back from ordering the new (Shanghai built) M3P here in Germany as it also comes with this lame LG pack instead of the 82kWh Panasonic pack of the Freemont built cars. 🙁

Nice! Keep highland videos coming! Mega cool.

I’m pretty sure Tesla has a sound rationale for using these batteries. There are a lot of trade-off decisions to be made when selecting a specific battery for an EV. Some examples: Price -if the battery is less expensive, then you have more money to spend on other features of which the new Model 3 has many; Battery Life-a slower charging rate might extend the life of the battery; Availability-it may have been the only battery available in the volumes necessary to support the numbers of new Model 3’s they expect to produce; Battery-Supplier Relationships-Tesla needs to build strong relationships with all of the big battery producers by spreading out the business since things can change fast in the business; Safety-a slower charging rate may improve the safety of the battery; Out performing your own higher-profit products-you want customers to see value in opting for one of your higher-end products if they can afford it. Also keep in mind that in the past when Tesla has introduced new models, they have initially throttled back one or more of the performance features until they have time to gather sufficient real-world data from the fleet to release Over-The-Air performance upgrades that are optimized in accordance with the data.

Thank you, Andy!

I have a 2022 Model 3 Performance on 20” Aero wheels and the ultra efficient 235/35/20 Hankook iON EVO AS tires. I will run this test on it this week and see how it compares.

One thing. If you analyze these results statistically, I think there won't be any difference among some groups of cars e.g. 106 will be basically the same as 109 and 98. Of course it will be difficult to test 4 or more cars under the same conditions, the same day.

Well, that cgarging behaviour is common for Model3 and Y in Europe for 3 years now. They are getting worse and worse in charging performance. 10%-80% was 20 minutes in 2019 models. 2021 with 3L batteries it dipped down to 25 minutes and now with LG it is 27minutes at best.

Thank you Andy. Debating ordering this car so this was very insightful!!

324 wh/mi is just terrible even at 80 mph. What tires were on that car? Tires can make a difference but it usually doesn’t help as much at higher speeds.

Thanks Andy, much appreciated. You the man.

Great video. I would like a test against a completely different charging station to rule out the grid location (I understand you tested different stalls). Next I would like to see results from another person's M3LR to make sure it isn't something isolated to this single instance.

Great useful review, Thanks

Thanks Andy!! I will think about you when I barbeque today

My M3P 2023 does the same thing when charging. I’ve only tried supercharging 3 times but even with warm weather, preconditioning, and below 30% soc, it wouldn’t go above 130 kw at a 250kw charger. It dropped to around 92 kw after about 6 min.

One of many thorough informative excellent video u kick azs

LG batteries just do not charge as quick as Panasonic but rumour has it less battery degradation than the Pan batteries.

Thanks for another great video. Again I learned something new by watching these videos. I have always wondered if you could switch off the fan on one side or the other in the front seats. Sometimes my passenger wants the fan turned on and I don't want it in my driver's side. And now I just leaned to hold the fan on the screen to turn it off. Thx Im still a noob and learning from each video lol (from a Model 3 LR Highland owner)

Epic video!

Yesterday in Cary, NC, I spotted a Model Y with the license plate WTHNSPEC. Clearly, you have a fan here!

I had similarly less than great experience charging at that Buc-ee's(not getting max) two different times.

I’ll take a slightly lower charging rate if it preserves the battery life. For a few extra minutes four or five times a year on road trips, it’s worth it to me.

thank you, Andy!!!!

Test drove one of these a few times but the seat was so uncomfortable. Never had had pain from a car seat before. Thinking of trying again to see if I can get it to be comfy cause I really want one. They look like amazing cars

Need to ensure aero wheels or equivalent are installed, they affect the range by as much as 10%. If you'd had those on there, you might have done 110 miles and beat the M3 RWD. I have the 2023 RWD LFP, btw.

My 2023 Model Y Fremont built will not start immediately at 255 under 10%, usually about 150kw till it hits 10%, or about 3 minutes depending on how much lower than 10% arrival at Supercharger.

Time to test the Leaf Plus on its last year of production

The 15 minutes charging should include the handshake times for a typical accessible charger. The 6 seconds on a Tesla charger is part of the Tesla performance profile compared to the rigmarole of using non-Tesla chargers (subject to any deterioration now they've fired the SC team!)

Also charging slows on the new y if you are watching you tube videos or air conditioning at a higher speed

It charges the same like my 2023 Model Y from the giga berlin. at 50 % not more than 110 kW and at 55 below 100 kW. Would like a 20 / 25 min 10-80 charging time. other than that i like my Model Y. Looks like it is the LG 5L battery. Powertrain / Battery basically not different than the Model Y or a Model 3 from 2017 other than a slower chargin battery.

is there a video like this for the 2024 Model 3 *RWD*? I got one a month ago and am planning a road trip in a few months

I’m mostly happy with my 23 RWD, but I plan on trading in to the new M3P. Not just the performance, but I’m into how much quieter it is and obviously the AWD for inclement weather.

VIN doesn't start with LRW (built at Giga Shanghai). LRW uses LG. How to know if this car has the LG pack?

Matrix LEDs also solve this Auto High Beam problem in the EU. I hope we will see an 800V system in the next Model 3 and Y in the future. The charging curve looks similar to that of my 2022 Model 3 LR with an LG battery.

Tesla Model 3 RWD LFP (2023) did better at 106 miles! That is why this is one of the best road trip tests.

After charging and as you start to drive, wasn't the car still pre-conditioning since the designation was still set to supercharger?

Looking forward to your M3P test next.

My 2016 Model s 90D has a similar charging curve to this. Crazy!

my 2023 Model 3 RWD LFP is only rated for 175kw. It'll get 200 right at the beginning, but quickly drops just like yours. maybe similar battery?

Can you make a comparison between USS and the terrible Vision Only system? It’s still so so bad imho.

Performance will do 255 from 10 to likely 38% I have the same Panasonic's and I love them for road tripping, even when pulling a small tent trailer.

"Try Full Self-Driving" - Tab to enable 😍 Would love to test it! First thing i will do, if it will be possible in Germany too. For me, its the worlds best car too, Kyle - gj job, as always 👍 Btw: I have nearly the same charging perfomance in my 03/2023 M3P - guess its the same pack here - good for lifetime protection

I like this data. Its a great comparison

Thanks Andy for your M3 loan.

Why the other 4 out of specs guys tested it a couple months ago, none of them really like it. They kept bashing the Highland for the entire hour, all other reviewers all liking it.

In Los Angeles on every corner? Bit of a stretch observation for such a numbers driven channel. Anywho, thank you Andy 🎈

Glad youre bringing awareness to this. I too am disappointed they got rid of their charging team when i was expecting things like this to improve drastically...i want road trips to get a lot better for my tesla vs just being a great local vehicle in Idaho

Man, still waiting on the Silverado EV 10% Challenge numbers. As for the Highland's battery, it is possible that this is now running the NCMA cell chemistry that Tesla licensed from LG. If so, this could just be the initial, "good enough" charging profile before they fully unlock it. It's possible that the high-peak, steep-taper charging profile that Tesla has been using since the NCA days doesn't play well with the new chemistry, and they would instead be better off mimicking the charging profiles used in cars like E-GMP with a faster average charging speed (as opposed to the fastest possible peak).

According to Tesla, the 18" Aero wheels get an EPA max range of 341 miles, the 19" Nova wheels only get 305 miles. That's significant. My 2024 Model 3 LR with 18" wheels has averaged 221 kWh/mile over the first 1000 miles.

The LG battery in the LR is 78.8 kWh and is indeed charging slower but it performs better in cold weather than its counterpart from Panasonic. And it degrades slower than the Panasonic one. Just look up the Tesla sold in Europe with LG battery vs the ones sold in USA with Panasonic battery. Now, there is a trade off indeed (faster charging vs better longevity), but let’s face it, 100 miles at 80 mph in 15 minutes of charge is pretty good. Compare 3.09 mi/kWh (the result of this test) with 2.4 mi/kWh of the Taycan and you’ll understand why there isn’t yet any car in the price range and configuration that compares to a Tesla. 23% efficiency difference is like driving the Tesla in winter to match the Taycan efficiency in summer. And of course, the Taycan is more expensive by at least 23% than the Tesla LR. And one last note : 51F for LR testing vs 77F of the RWD LFP and latest MY is not a fair comparison. From my experience, it is about 9% less efficiency between the two temperatures, which would put the LR above the RWD at the same temperature (109 miles). And put the LR on par with the best charging Tesla : MY RWD with software limited battery.

If new battery, they could had purposely derated charging and increase in software update after they have more data.

I wonder if this has the LG Chem pack? The LG packs are horribly slow in comparison to the Panasonic packs. But the upside is that rhey also tend to degrade a fair bit slower.

I took delivery of my refreshed M3 LR in March first EV. I absolutely love this car. It puts a smile on my face every time I go for a drive

I agree “sitting at a charging station” for more than 15 minutes could be annoying. My question to all the “sitters” out there: what are you doing? I rarely sit for even one minute. I get out of the car and go to the restroom or to a restaurant to eat. The car is always sufficiently charged before I return, so I just leave.

Have you done a test on the consumption difference between no autopilot, basic/enhanced autopilot and FSD. I mean its quite a few cameras rolling plus a powerful computer. The impact would also be greater at low speeds

If you’re in Austin, Texas in the near future, you can review mine with the 18” photon wheels.

I love this test

Tesla is smart😂😂😂. They know reviewers will publicize this supposed "worse charging Highland Model 3." What's the best way to clear out old Model 3 and Y inventory? News of better charging and a slight slash in pricing. Once the old inventory numbers drop to their desired level, they'll flash the software to reflect the real Highland curve. 😅

Kinda crazy that tesla hasn't improved charging for the last 6 years.

Similar charging curve on my model 3 highland LR AWD. I might be ~10kW higher at similar SoC levels. Looks like the LG pack does indeed charge more slowly.

In other words, it's about the same with similar wheels to other model 3's, which is only bested by much more expensive ev's. Got it.

THANKS ANDY❗️

I would buy one but not trading in my current tesla with stalks for no stalks

Hello, is it possible to have the data for the 10% challenge test for all the cars you did? In excel format? Maybe you have it in cloud so we can download it?

Is there a link to the data?

I’m really interested in external battery pack options, If I could put another 50KWH pack in my cargo trailer I could do all my towing with my model Y

The LG batter pack i have here in italy on my 2021 m3LR has the same Charging curve. Cant stay at 250 over 10%. They Never improved that side, i would have really liked a bump on the Charging speed. Usually it stays under 150 on 35/36% and at 27/28% if u start at 3%.

According to Tesla Highland 18’= 341 miles, nova 19’= 305 mile. So 100 x 341 : 305= 111.8 miles with 18’.

I have a 2022 model 3 LR that charges exactly like this. When I bought it I figured it would have the 82kw Panasonic pack but the Tessie app shows it only had 79kwh new so now I think it has the LG pack. Only goes above 250kw under 10% and under 100ish kw at 50%. Very disappointed in charging speeds vs the older packs and even compared to the two model 3 rwd LFP cars I’ve driven. I was under the impression that all 2021 m3p, 2022 m3 LR and newer got the 82kwh Panasonic pack here in the US. What’s everyone’s experience with the Panasonic 82kwh charge curve??

26:00 can you add ioniq 5 to the list as well? Both 20" and 19" ones.

Weird that it’s topping out at 150 kw. My 2018 model 3 long range did 250. I rented a 2020 standard range and it topped out at 150. We sure this isn’t the standard range?

Ping me, got the Highland on the 18” wheels. Live close to your new fav supercharger.

I hope you will be getting the updated Panasonic version of this car to do the 10% Challenge. This should put the brakes on anyone buying a Model 3 LR if they know how poorly the car is charging. The car now qualifies for the tax break so I assume they switched to the Panasonic battery. Can we confirm that is the case and can we get an updated test? Until people know they are getting a good charging car this has to be hurting sales.

Did you check tyre pressure before starting the test? should be 42 min when cold if it was anything below it then it would affect range.

Thank You Andy for All that you are doing for our Planet Earth.... Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. Namaste 🙏🏻 😊 ✌ ☮ ❤ 🕊

I would expect the M3P's battery to be the same as the MYP's current battery. For reference, I have a 2/24 build MYP and it's only slightly better charging than this.

When do we get to see the refreshed Performance test drive? I want to know your impressions on handling and braking. World class this time, or no?

Aren’t they “throttling” the CT’s new battery pack? There will probably be a SW update soon.

My 2024 Model 3 LR gets the full 250kW (~248kW) when supercharging at lower SOC.

So far all signs point to the older LG 2170 cells from South Korea. I think Tesla's main goal with this upgrade was to keep the same price. I would have like to see front and rear castings for even more improvements to the NVH and chassis rigidity. And of course a new faster charging battery pack. But then they would have to raise prices.

Nowhere in the East Coast we can do 80mph . This test doesn't represent half the country . Maybe Out of spec Dave can do the test at 65 mph

Love this test! Any chance we could get a 10% Challenge on the new 2024 Kona Electric? It had a major refresh including a significant improvement to charging curve (better than MY23+ Kia Niro EV), it appears it holds 85 to 100kW up to about 62% SOC. I imagine it will be a common cross shop for Model Y and Model 3 buyers, especially with the $7500 discount incentives Hyundai is currently offering.

Do we need to calibrate Tesla batterys, NMC

How is 100 miles in the excellent category? That's stopping for 15 minutes every hour and 20 minutes. Shouldn't anything below 100 miles be in the 'nearly unusable' and then 100-125 be something like 'just barely acceptable', then around 150, where you can actually drive for 2 hours would be 'dexent' and the 3 hours of driving (so 225 miles) at a time (ie, between breakfast and lunch, and lunch to supper) be excellent? If you can stop for a subway sub and be ready for your next leg of trip until supper, that's when most people will switch over. Most of these results just seem like they would be a frustrating mess to tey to drive with.