Wow. So u guys r telling me its possible for 2 ppl to respectfully disagree on something, being able to articulate their points not screaming over each other, cursing and name calling? What the hell is going on here?!

Great to see somebody actually debating rather than just murdering each other

If I threw a hook palm down instead of in, Jeff Cavaliere would come out of the heavy bag and punch me in the throat.

I always punch palm up, its the secret technique of the gods. It works so well my arm becomes dislocated from raw power

Who saw GGG's left hook over the guard, and left hand KO last night???

Only one TRUE way to solve this debate... 10 full rounds of bare knuckle boxing, only hooks and 540 wheel kicks allowed!!

We say it depends on range... Also palm up and palm OUT at close or maximum range.

I used to do it palm down, but then two days ago I tried it palm in and it was, to quote Aladdin, "A WHOLE NEW WOOOOOOOOOORRRRLLLD"

I think it should come down to the opponent's guard. The hook sneaks into a tighter guard with the palm down. But if I have a clear shot I'm going palm in

When I started boxing, I was taught palm in, 90 degree bend, elbow at shoulder level. My boxing trainer was an orthopedist assistant also. His logic was very simple 1- palm in, your forearm bones are parallel, thus minimizing fracture risk while palm down crosses your forearm bones increasing risk of injury. 2- forming a 90 degree angle at the elbow and shoulder again minimizes injuries like tears and dislocations and the right angle are stronger, allowing you to put more torque behind the punch without getting injured. It's all about good form.

Palm in just always felt better to me. But if i’m not wearing gloves I’m throwing elbows instead.

Personally I go palm down going to the head and palm in going to the body

I tend to use a hybrid, where the angle is mostly palm in but with a slight cant. Anatomically speaking I think that is the most natural way to throw big, powerful hooks

Love this, you don’t find good, honest, respectful debates now-a-days. Awesome informations guys on both ends.

The most dangerous hook I've ever seen was from Mike Tyson. Palm in.

I got injured 2 weeks ago for doing palm down left hooks in power punches (Bag work). I still have a month of recuperation, fibrillar break & tear from the tendon. I learned my lesson, no need to watch the video.

Didn't know this. Definetely throwing palm in punches from now on. Besides, it feels more powerful.

Love Adam's insight on the body mechanics of the punches and why his is the most optimal. I've always been a lover of variation, grew up a Jack of All Trades, so being comfortable with both variations is ideal. For my case that is Palm in - close range Palm down - mid range Russian Hooks - long range PS Props to GGG on bringing the Lead overhand into the light. You could tell Rolls was watching GGG's fights with Canelo when he started throwing the lead Straight after the 2. Announcer: "Look at the way he landed that JAB" Me: "Pfft... Commoner"

One thing I noticed: It is easier to retract back to guard when you do the flat palm than with the sideways palm. This gives you better safety and you can load up another shot faster if it doesn't hit.

I have been a martial artist for over 15 years and I've never heard this debated before. Thanks for giving me something to think about and work on

Throw them thumb up, the split second before you'll hit the opponent start twisting the wrist to have it at a 45 degree angle, to drive that hook like a screw into your opponents head, that's the way my coach has taught me and I agree with it 100%. Makes those punches stronger and you are hitting the target with the strongest bones. Bending the wrist is a good way to damage it though.

Yo Shane, thanks for your tips ! I learnt boxing in the Montreal boxing club " Underdog". The coachs there teach the left hook palm down. Therefore I've always used it and never get injured (I often train bare knuckles without even straps) ! I find this hook to be more accurate, also it allows me to hit an higher target more easily and to bring my elbow a little higher more easily as well. I feel like I have more speed and more mobility with this hook. I would be very pleased to hear your opinions on it !

This is fascinating as I have been taught both ways by two different masters/trainers. I really enjoy the agree to disagree friendly chat here from these two. From an entirely personal perspective, I go with palm-in for hooks below my shoulder and palm-down for above the shoulder in close. Below the shoulders, I can dig in with my hips and probably deliver more power but once I get above the shoulder, I'm usually looking to go over a guard or the raised shoulder of my opponent. If I take the above-shoulder shot palm down it's easier to have an arc in the trajectory of the punch and I come down on the jaw or temple, giving me a slight gravity assist and delivering the power through a smaller area. The only exception to this is when I'm looking at a really long hook to the head, which is not really a knockout shot but more a shot to rattle my opponent. You can get a little bit more extension palm-in but being long it delivers less power because the hip doesn't snap across quite as far. It's a bit horses-for-courses and maybe I have developed this through habit but it is always a lively discussion. Glad to see it here.

Two things.. For me personally, my trainer says i hit harder with my palm facing me. If you want to hook long distance it will have to be down with the palm facing down because you wouldnt be able to hit withe your knuckles the other way

I always preferred throwing palm in but after taking boxing classes I was always taught to throw the left hook palm down

9:00 Hahahah the KZfaqr in him started stressing once the sirens started. Greats points though 👍🏽

I love this channel because it is pretty much the ONLY one that speaks intelligently about striking. For decades now I have been explaining to people that your first metacarpal bone is the weapon -- "the point of your spear", if you will, that you are driving into the target as if stabbing hard with a knife. To drive it in, you have to align it with your Radius (upper forearm bone) -- that's the shaft of the spear, and your upper arm is what holds to the spear to thrust into your target. -- Let's fist talk about environment. Boxing, MMA and organized streetfighting, OR an impromptu mugging where you have to throw a few punches as you fend for your life -- each one has some factors that affect how you should throw a hook punch. The main differences are: glove size, whether your wrists are taped, how much you used to throwing hook punches, and how strong your forearm arms are (the ones that stabilize the wrist). -- In boxing, your hands are pretty safe unless you are dumb. Most injuries are to the wrist due to bad taping. You are looking for clean contact without hitting the opponent's gloves on the way in, to preserve the force of your strike. This means getting the meat of the glove out of the way of your strike. I recommend palm OUT for inside hook punches to the head, palm DOWN for outside hook punches and any hook punch to the body, and to never throw a hook punch palm IN under any circumstances. The reason some boxers throw this way is for that they were taught to throw this way -- not because it is more effective. -- In MMA/streetfighting, your hands are usually lightly padded and your wrists have taping. Injuries to the hand are common here, as the "hand protection" is mainly to let combatants punch harder safely instead of being careful with their punches. In true bare knuckle fighting where both combatants have neither gloves nor taped wrists, punches at the head become rare due to how easily the hand can be injured. It's an entirely different sort of fight visually, consisting of clean quick jabs and almost no heavy punches. In MMA/streetfighting, the main concern is damage to the Radius, the hand, or the wrist. You don't want to make bone to bone contact, hitting your Radius against the opponent's blocking arm or skull -- so your hook punch should be palm OUT to hit the outer forearm muscles against anything hard the forearm contacts. This muscle being damaged won't impact grip strength or fist clenching, as it is the one that opens the hand. It's the body's natural shield to absorb attacks against us. Throwing this way also protects both the hand and the wrist from injury. Conversely, blocks to a hook punch to the body will come from above, often in the form of contact with the target's dropping elbow (the hardest part of the human body, except for some points on the skull) -- this means palm DOWN, or even palm OUT/DOWN at a diagonal, to take elbow-to-forearm contact to the muscle rather than to the Radius. -- If you get jumped, don't throw a hook punch to the head. Throw a palm strike -- it is the only sure way to protect your hand without gloves or wrist tape, and/or if you aren't strong enough and experience enough to throw a devastating hook punch. Hit with the base of the palm, at the wrist, palm IN -- basically think of it as hook punch and pimp slap had a baby, and its name was palm strike. Drive your palm strike through the target as if you are trying to send the attacker's head rolling down the street, and ALWAYS follow up with some other attack while you have them off balance from the palm strike. The best follow up in a self-defense situation is almost always to get your attacker off of their feet. Most people have bad falling skills and bed cardio. You want to take as much out of your attacker as you can, as you also give yourself a head start running away. Knock them down, kick them in the ribs, and then run. Don't stand there trying to throw the perfect hook punch. -- Also if you get jumped, don't throw a body punch. Like... at all. This includes a hook punch to the body, which easily sprains your wrist if your wrist isn't taped no matter how you throw it. Unless you are strong as an ox and can break ribs with every blow, or you get lucky and strike the diaphragm at the right moment in their breathing, you are not going to do ANYTHING with that sort of punch other than tire yourself out and leave your face/neck wide open to attack. Body punching is a combat strike, not a self-defense strike. Leave it at the gym. Break out some basic Aikido (not the wrist locks; the big moves), Muay Thai (maximum power strikes meant to stun), or Wing Chun (rapid frantic striking) in self-defense situations -- and always remember you are trying to get away alive and unhurt, not kick the guy's ass for daring to approach you.

Thank you, Shane, for all your uploads, especially this one, I have learned a lot, I will still continue to punch what is comfortable for me, but, this gives me more insight on why people train in both ways of striking with left hooks. You always have my respect because instead of calling someone out, you go to greater lengths to find out professionally why one way might be more practical than another, answering comments of the public or finding out for yourself, to increase your personal knowledge.

On Puerto Rican / Triple G / Thumb Down / Olympic style left hook....it's usually thrown leaning away from opponent.

Great video...but the real question is.....toilet paper over or under?

So I've been watching your videos for almost 3 years learning everything a boxing coach could taught me. I know I'll be learning more from you and your channel and I want to become a good boxer someday.

and there’s nobody better to hear from than you and the great Adam Lerner

Palm in feels more natural for hooks How about palm strikes in mma tho

Palm Down GANG

He’s right about the scapula & external rotation. Lots of guys came in to the gym complaining about their shoulder hurting when they turn over the to palm down position. Also raising your elbow to early and turning your hand over makes it a weaker hook and chances of shoulder problems. Some great teachers say turn that palm down in close quarters and thumb up when your further out. Good video!

I think palm in is more of a knockout power shot, and palm down is more designed to penetrate, and is sneakier in nature. When you bend the wrist inward a bit (on palm-in shots), it allows for of the flat widespread knuckles to land better, and is reinforced by the more engaged forearm muscles. It becomes a heavier punch.

Mostly depending on wether Amateur or Professional. Amateur - Palm Down Pro - whatever you want, mostly palm to you.

it depends on range. i am kickboxing and k-1 fighter so i use both . in close/medium range i love palm in to cause damage and/or to open the oponent guard.

In my experience, palm in gives the most stability and thus power. What I got used to is palm in but just a little bit angled down as this is the most natural and most stable for me. I also consciously practice hitting using knuckles as its the most damaging towards the opponent. Punching using knuckles will get my wrist to be angled a little bit and also it helps my elbow to be level with my shoulder, which is the best case scenario for power transfer towards the fist. For me palm down is only good if you intend to hit looping down such as overhand right (I'm right-handed).

Palm out. Plain and simple. (Keep it cocked) Twist from your hips, (elbows down) up the torso (still cocked) and through the shoulders (explode)for real momemtum. Your punch should be a WHIPPED piston, looking like its coming in a straight line, though truly at an angle because your body is twisting vs swinging. You can weave them through a guard no problem

As a southpaw I'm offended...lol

I prefer doing palm down just cause I'm used to it. But it's good to get used to both.

I go with the palm in for the following reasons. And I always aim to land with the outside three knuckles! 1. The bicep is fully engaged. 2. If you throw it long in the heat of battle, and land with the inside of the glove? It still hurts🥊 Throwing palm down switches the bicep off, and throw it long in the heat of battle, you land with your thumb, and that’s weeks of hurt, and inconvenience. Now days on the pads I tend to throw my left hook palm in, but whip it palm down on impact!! Glad to see this discussed.

I think both positions are correct. I will always have my beginner boxers hit the heavy bag with palm facing them so that they do not injure the wrist. Once a boxer is experienced with their range on the bag and proper technique of the hook(from floor to fist) then they have an easier time throwing it either way without being injured. An experienced boxer will have a bit of a flick on the end of their shots and that bit of turn over with the wrist will bring the palm facing the floor a bit more. So many levels to this game which is why I love it! Thanks for the video!

Palm in all the way, my left hook is my best punch!

I'm going to add to this debate and say that I'm sure *it also has to do what your(martial art) training in.* I love muay Thai and I'm sure that Muay Thai has forced me to strike with my palm down since if I were to throw an elbow, my palm would be down and striking with the palm in isn't flexible and straining during an elbow. Of course it's not impossible to strike an elbow with the palm in "comfortably" *but overall it's what suits the person and the martial art they are training in.*

I love this... two guys with different views and great points each debating and maybe even teaching each other a little.

Shane ,Ive always gone with palm in for the exact same reasons ur guest has pointed out...Palm down, at least for me, is a recipe for injury to inevitably happen,,,Palm in allows the maximum transfer of force to the target area without risk of damaging ur hand and or wrist...One thing that is obvious is that its easier to keep that nice line behind the fist to elbow and shoulder when throwing high with the palm down....you'll notice that hooks to the head of someone who is tall become difficult to keep that line when palm is in becuz turning the palm in make the line from elbow to shoulder drop slightly and its harder to keep everything lined up. In the end its a preference and what works for one individual may differ from whats ideal for another... If palm down has enabled you to deliver powerful hooks with precision and no major injuries, more power to you bro! Great vid on a discussion thats always come up in combat sports!

I find with the lead hook both ways are good but with the rear hook only palm in

cool Stanley Kubrick opening goes along well with a bit o the old ultraviolence

I’d have to go with palm in because I like the stability, longevity, and reliability. The pure palm in reminds me of what they used to tell us Karate and TKD class, keep that alignment strait! Great points by both of you!

Shane it depends on the angle you're standing in. The heavybag is not the same as the head of a person. Also what is you're plan. What combo do you use or is it just a single all or nothing left hook. So the answer is it doesn't matter actually. A hit is a hit. Training on the left hook is a good thing to do. If you like to fight on the outside you can give a devastating left hook. Because of slipping a jab and stepping a little bit to the side and forward at the same time with your right leg the left hook gets a hell lot more power than when you throw a normal combination with standing left foot in front.

Definetly palm down, for me, when I throw it far, but will try to palm in more in close ups

Palm in. That's how i throw all hooks. Old school boxing. More power and less injuries

For hooks in my experience it definitely depends on range and type of guard (how small of a hole I'm aiming for). In really close fighting I prefer palm down because I feel like I get a naturally tighter arc without thinking about it, likewise when they are at range I prefer palm in instead of down because of the opposite, my arc gets naturally a bit wider to reach long range. If they have a really stiff and tight guard I like to go palm down to try and wedge my first two knuckles into any opening even if it doesn't do a ton of damage it can cause a reaction that can lead to a new opening, but if they are wide open or loosely guarding their head I'm going palm in because it can generate more force at a longer range even if it's a bit slower. I think I kind of do this because my first two knuckles aren't very prominent and my hooks naturally land at the middle 2 or 3 knuckles rather than the first two when I have my palm in. When I twist my knuckles down the first two knuckles will lead before the others. It might also be because I learned a lot of my punching from watching Tyson.

Glad I picked this over Tony Jefferies video on hooks. I like that you guys are questioning the two methods and comparing.

I prefer palm in with right hooks and palm down with left

Thumbs down are faster and more effektiv if you use them in very very short distance but me i use both i noticed that if my opponent is to far away my hand roatates naturally

I like how you ended with the question about bare knuckle training. His response was very helpful as well. This was very educational and good for effective training.

*Since the dawn of FightTips* Me with my flashbacks watching this channel back in 2012

Thank you for that discussion! 👍

I can’t throw a hook with my palm down at all. It has no force. I think it should be done however you can do it the best. I can throw the hook, palm in, at all ranges.

It is nice to see that you are discussing the use of this punch with and without gloves. After all we don't fight only with gloves. :)

so great to watch this. thank you. someone said other purpose of palm down was you cannot simply dodge it when throw a hook, interesting, but still up to the boxer where he was confident or feel more power of throwing palm in or palm down hook.

This channel is awesome ive been wondering this for ever

Thumb up, always. Also thumbs up on the video

I have trained myself and I believe adequately so to switch between Palm up and palm in for my hooks depending on if I'm being more aggressive or defensive at the time. I am an explosive in fighter so I did drills with my brother where During heavy bag training, if he told me kill: I did thumbs toward the sky so they die. The American hook generates more power, unquestionable fact. If he said safe; I twist so that I do the more defensive hook. Palm down. What a lot of people need to remember is when you have your palm facing your thumb towards you, it locks your elbow in such a way where it creates a shield and a harder pathway for your opponent to come in on you. You also have more rotation in your arm with the European hook, to use it as a block. Unlike thumbs up, where it locks down but amps potential torque. In essence, palm down. Thumb in makes an elbow block/arm block very possible. I have found that there are reasons to use both. And no reason at all to use one over the other exclusively. I am immeasurably happy with myself for training my muscle memory to use both and try to recognize points in time where I should use one over the other.

I agree with the other dude on everything. C'mon Shane it's not more important on where it lands on your fist but how quick and how much power you generate to land that punch. That being said palm in makes more sense and less chance of injury.

alot of us fighters use palm in since it can go between the persons arms in their guard.

Also i say palm in!!

Palm-in is the only structurally sound way to hit - the hand and forearm bones are properly aligned. I've had a "boxer's fracture" on each hand from palm-down hooks. I also fractured the 1st and 2nd metacarpals of one hand when turning the hand palm-out when throwing an overhand.

Nice how it went from a sweet argue till a good explanation both together. 👏

Next topic: should a fighter have a girlfriend? All boxers: they weaken the legss Most others: no man it is good and chill.

Shaolin Kung Fu we trained palm in. Bigger hitting surface and better on elbow if you glance or miss.

For me - palm down I have always been taught that way and always will throw a punch that way

Sir, thank you so much for sharing your experience. Palm down and landing punch with one knuckle is dangerous. I broke it, honestly.

I usually go palm in unless I have to go over the guard or to a much taller opponent so that the elbow rolls over easier. Thoughts?

Just ask “how does mike Tyson do it” then you do it that way

Palm down for close hooks, palm in for long hooks Personally i always go palm down For rear hook and body hooks always palm in I don't know man, just the way it's more comfortable to you

Do whatever works for you. Oscar threw both palm in and palm down. GGG throws both as well. Danny Garcia throws palm down. Tyson and JCC threw palm in. Floyd does a slapping hook sometimes. “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” A lot of mma fighters were told that the correct way is palm down, but most of them don’t use their whole body when throwing the hook. Their hooks are arm powered punches.

Well, i broke my hand palm down by accidentally hitting with the two far knuckles sooo 😫 won't be doing that again

I haven’t watched the video yet, but my fifth degree black belt sensei always said to throw the hook palm in and then twist to palm down for extra power that doesn’t use energy from winding the punch

This debate is useful for telling the ups and downs of each hook style. TOTALLY using this info for self defense lol

I practiced kickboxing and Muay Thai for almost 30 years... for me it has always been palm in as the best way to deliver hooks, in my experience, that’s when you deliver them with maximum power and still be safe not to hurt your wrist or knuckles!

Always palm in 👊

Instinctively it is Palm In. But usually I do Palm down for more accuracy

If you have a strong jab with good pop. That fedor looping hook will surprise your opponents cause the angle

My first thoughts were that both are good depending on distance. The horizontal palm keeps the momentum out for more reaching hooks, while the palm down hook has maximum power directly in front for closet palms. Know how to use both /-)

i was just thinking of this thanks shane haha

It should be where your hook is in comparison to shoulder Above the shoulder like with an overhand it shoUld be palm down Below the shoulder like body hooks or a shorter opponent palm up Like you talking into a portable mic

I definitely throw hooks with palm in whether it is short of large for the same reasons Adam said, and because it is much more powerful and stable.

For me, it depends on the situation. Palm down feels stronger, feels like it can get over a guard easier, and that it keeps your head protected better. I also feel more comfortable throwing combinations like an elbow or backfist out of it. Palm in feels faster, resets to the guard position faster, and I'd feel comfortable throwing more hooks that way. Having both, and knowing when you feel you're more comfortable to use them, seems the right approach to me.

Also if your oponent is too close and you throw it palm down you cann bust your thumb up bad.

For MMA palm down 100% 🤙🏻😊 Or palm facing out for MMA

Both are 100% useful and necessary for the boxers arsenal; the big distinction between their use is the range in which you would employ them. One is more of a cutting blow, one is more blunt. IMHO

So this is a discussion i had with my coach for a long time. If i my dominant leg is my right leg and i want to give a lowkick with my my left leg, what do i do? Do i either already stand in an southpaw posistion and give the lowkick or do i stand in the orthodox position then switch to an southpaw position and then give the lowkick? Hope you read this! Keep up the good work!!🔥💪🏽🥊

Palm in. While not powerful as palm down, it's less dangerous for the wrist.

Just to throw a spanner into the works. A hook to the liver and a hook to the chin have different target angels.

I agree with turning horizontal at longer ranges because otherwise you might hit the mid-knuckle side of the fist, endangering the wrist.

I once broke my thumb badly in a fight throwing a hook and since then I've working on how I throw hooks. I ended up throwing palm in on my left hand and palm down on the right. For me this is the way I hit the best because as a normal stance guy my left side is closer to my opponent than the right. I feel like palm in has a lot more power. It is more stable as you said and look at all the big power punchers they nearly all throw it palm in. Ramon Dekkers for example has a very special technique of his own throwing the hooks upwards with his elbow a bit down.