A little correction: Jobs didn't found Pixar. Pixar was originally a subdivision of ILM that George Lucas had to sell to Jobs to pay for his divorce.

not gonna lie, the anecdote by Lisa Jobs about him going after her cousin for eating a burger makes me feel like it's amazing that no one had actually decked Jobs in the face before. probably because Jobs would have burst into tears just before they did, I guess? god, what an ass.

the sheer projection of Steve when he's tearing into that child like way to externalize your problems onto the innocent, dude

The idea of Bono being a Bono impersonator impersonator brings me joy.

The part about Woz reading about Jobs' theft hurt.

40:10 Xerox pretty much called every single shot for computers a decade early in Parc Labs and decided to draw a walk. It's truly insane how much tech innovations they gave up to play safe.

What's awful is all the people who need to hear this only see 'Stacked papers, fuck the haters'. Sex pest? Liar? Massive manipulator? A moron whose ego was their own death? Doesn't matter. he was "self-made" rich therefor he was good. The tech bro crowd could be forced, eyes glued open, to relive every moment of Job's failings as a human being and they'd come out the other side and thank everyone for the opportunity to learn directly from the gospel of their idol.

35:50 "...because you're not supposed to have the name of the acronym in the acronym" OH MY GOD WAIT UNTIL YOU FIND OUT ABOUT RICHARD STALLMAN AND GNU

Maybe he was so dedicated to not bathing that he wouldn't even entertain the idea of putting his feet somewhere people washed themselves.

It's also hilarious that mister spiritual purity vegan is like "You know what we need? A guy who sells Pepsi. Yeah, I wanna be Pepsi."

KZfaq is weird. Every quote from Lisa is followed by an ad about depression. Lovely.

3:22 Every time some dipshit journalist calls SBF a geenyus for basic stimming behavior like playing League during meetings, I die a little bit more inside. Imagine a world where everyone's ADHD was treated with the same bizarre reverence techbros have for SBF's, even if their parents *aren't* coastal literati. Like, cool! I'm 2hrs late to work because I got caught in a complicated and inescapable mental loop involving the "'Trombone Failure;' Sewer Theme" from GBA's classic "Urban Yeti" but who cares? I'm not sTuPiD, iM aDvAnCeD!.

Y’know, maybe it’s NOT very sad that Steve Jobs died of Ligma.

KZfaq is really the place for this podcast. No ads with ad blocker and actual listener comments thay are often engaging

Last time I was this early Jobs had scurvy.

Hooooof... i live with PTSD after an abusive childhood, and hearing what Jobs did to his daughter reminds me of my father to a panic inducing degree. You may consider adding a pinned comment or something in the description offering a trigger warning and time codes to skip the explicit description. My father was an expert at picking mundane behaviors apart until I or one of my siblings was sobbing and begging him to stop, telling him he'd already won and they'd do whatever he wanted. I was the youngest by four years. I do not like remembering the time between my elder siblings moving out and myself escaping that house. He got sober a few years after I moved away. He is a better father, now. Definitely better to talk to. But that memory still hurts when prodded.

I'm so disappointed by the lack of acknowledgement of the SotN reference, that caught me off guard and made me laugh. Good joke, Ed

Lol all I can think about Steve jobs is the human centi-pad episode.

As a computer history nerd I feel the need to fill in why Apple was interested in what Next brought to the table. The Mac quickly became Apple’s main computer line. The original Mac was an achievement in cost cutting to make a “relatively affordable” computer. It was similar to the Lisa but instead of $10000 it cost a bit over $2000. The problem is that to do so the Mac team had to make an extremely lean OS. It would over time become increasingly difficult to add features that were becoming mainstream. For example, MacOS didn’t have true multitasking support. It had what was called cooperative multitasking which is less powerful than preemptive multitasking which all OSs use today (Windows 95 was the first version of Windows to support it I think). Classic MacOS also didn’t have protected memory meaning that if one piece of software crashed it would take the whole system down with it and you’d have to reboot. Both of these features and more could, theoretically, be built into the classic MacOS but it would be a huge undertaking which Apple was not in the position to do. Microsoft did it with Windows but it still took moving Windows from DOS based to Windows NT. They essentially had to build a new OS from the ground up to make something more modern. Apple, then looked to UNIX as a way to add all these features and have a truly modern OS. UNIX had been around for a long time and was a very powerful base to build an OS on. This is why basically every non-Windows OS is based on UNIX. What Next had was a respectable UNIX based OS that had a lot of interesting user interface features that Apple liked. Jobs also poached people from Apple when he founded Next and so these people were already familiar with the Mac. Mac OS X was essentially a brand new OS with more DNA from Next than from the classic MacOS. If you wanted to run classic Mac apps you had to boot a virtual machine under Mac OS X to do so. This functionality was built in but it was still not ideal. But a UNIX based OS was so much better that it didn’t take very long for developers to get on board with it and all of Apple’s current OSs are directly descendant of the original Mac OS X and to an extent NextStep (the name of the Next OS). The classic example of this is that every version of Mac OS X has shipped with a 3D chess game that is literally a port of the one that shipped with NextStep.

Ohhhhh shit it’s the Second to last episode and it’s *only* an hour. I must save myself and indulge when episode 4 comes out. This series has been great

Dropping the fucking Castlevania quote in response to the appliance question nearly killed me

Pirates of silicon valley has a funny scene about Xerox basically giving up the mouse idea.. I really think you guys should have included that movie in your podcast

You should've started with a disclaimer "This podcast includes descriptions of Steve Jobs revolting personal habits. Discretion is advised."

Putting the acronym in the name of the acronym is not uncommon in tech projects. GNU stands for GNU's Not Unix, and I think PHP is also a "recursive" acronym.

Every time I get myself into a dark place, I realise that I haven't listened to this podcast for a while. Thanks team🖖

Having the name in the acronym is a bit of a tradition in the computer culture of that era. It's called a recursive acronym and I think it originates, at least the computing sphere, from the MIT hacker scene in the 60s and 70s. The only one that really survives to this day is GNU, which stands for GNU is Not UNIX.

I just caught the fucking Castlevania joke during the appliance aside that slapped a laugh out of my noise hole well done

I was living in Tokyo when Jobs died. Shrines were set up in front of Apple stores, candles were lit and vigils kept. This was ALL for Jobs. Later, I did some coaching at Apple Japan. The culture was cult-like!

The Apple II GS if it had not been purposely slowed down in performance was the way to go.

2:57 what's so irksome to me as a ADHD-having non-binary person raised a girl is that only guys are allowed to get away with the excuse of "oh, but my marvelous intellect demands I play LoL in this meeting". I got so much shit when I needed a non-language task to still the twitchies so I could pay attention in classes and lectures, you don't get the genius card if you're presenting as a girl, so I resent Sam for this out of pure fucking spite.

Fun fact, that you can read about if you read Jaron Lanier's _You Are Not a Gadget_: Raskin wanted the Mac to not have files and folders. Jobs, in pushing him out, insists on files and folders, and now we have a hard time of not thinking of computing in terms of files and folders at all.

Steve Jobs adopting crypto might have depended on whether it was his daughter or not.

You know, whatever you can say about Jobs, gloating and laughing about his death mere moments after accusing the man of having no class is rather lacking in self-awareness.

This is reminds me of some post I saw on Facebook saying that mean people are stupid and smart people have compassion. When I saw that, I was like, that unfortunately is not the case. It's a nice idea, and I'm not saying that there aren't smart and kind people, after all look at Wozniak, but intellectual intelligence and social intelligence are not related. After all look at jobs.

I'm disappointed that Robert doesn't appreciate the long proud tradition of recursive acronyms in tech

Woah Ed. Two minutes in and you are already spoiling the end of this story

Sticking your feet in the toilet and flushing it is an old ballet dancer's trick for a quick and easy cooling footbath. Cold water on over-stressed feet is very soothing; any actual whirlpool foot bath in the studio would be reserved for the prima and maybe lower-ranked soloists, generally not the corps de ballet "rats".

Sega does what pepsi-don't.

Something I never thought I'd actually vocalise about anyone: The one and only tragedy of this man's death is that sickness can't take him again.

28:00 The deal with the Apple II, II+, IIc, IIe is that schools both public and private bought them by the ton, and there was a huge aftermarket collection of educational software for these computers. They also got a lot of mileage from small office businesses that needed digital spreadsheets and word processing. The Apple II home computing market came from all the people using them in education.

A lot of monsters get covered on this show who are worse than Steve Jobs, but Jobs may be the biggest asshole.

I just want to say, I caught the SotN reference

Audio engineering suggestion: Robert needs the eq around 8k dropped at couple of dB. Love the podcast.

52:05 The Pepsi of computers. Apt comparison

Looking up rule 34 dishwashers.

A really good movie about all. This is the pirates of silicon valley. It does show a lot of the things that are talked about in these episodes.

that 84' ad sounds similar to the LBJ daisy ad lol

I don’t get it. Why name it the LISA if you’re going to do everything in your power to not admit you named it after your daughter

I can't believe it took not wanting to look like an asshole in front of Bono for him to admit the computer was named after his daughter

Twiggy drive brought back a long dormant part of my memory I didn't even know I fucking HAD 😅

Went of to listen Free Man in Paris afterthe Jobs quote about what he would be doing if he wasn't a rich, famous tech guy. And then we talk about a famous ad. Perfect pairing

Steve JAAAAAAAERBS

19:17 It was never successful. On paper it was a beast of a computer, really innovative and with Jobs' sensibilties on display, it was a truly beautiful machine on the outside. In reality it was a moronic design that had a solid metal casting as case without any kind of ventilation that cooked the motherboard and nowadays it has become a very rare collectionist piece not only because it flopped hard but also because it's hard to find a working one.

Bruce Dickinson of Iron Maiden is the exception to the rich guy plane thing.

"I don't think Elon Musk would do that to a 7 year old" ...yeah, yeah. I'll give him that. God damn you, Steve Jobs. You're making me *moderately compliment Musk.*

Migo? Really? Apparently nobody at those companies ever read Lovecraft.

This reminds me of what I think was a 30 for 30 podcast I listened to about the guy who came up with how sports are broadcasted and shown on TV. He was called a genius at times but the podcast argued that he wasn't brilliant, he just knew what people would want to watch. Jobs had the same talent. His knowledge and interest in teck was deep as his interest in eastern religions. He wasn't a genius like Waz. Just a guy with basic tastes who knew what people would want

"i dont want to get all Butlerian Jihad on you here" 😂❤

It's weird to me that I had to think for a minute to realize that "Butlerian Jihad" is not an actual, normal noun in our universe. :/

Coke and Pepsi make multi-million dollar deals with partners like restaurants too, so it's not completely dissimilar. That's actually the point I thought you were making at first.

Steve's treatment of his child is *especially* terrible when *his* parents (the adoptive ones, of course) were *so* loving it ended up being bad for him. He could maybe have put even 1% of that into his own child. (No, he couldn't have, because he's a terrible person.)

Having the name of the acronym in the acronym is a tech thing, like WINE (stands for WINE Is Not an Emulator).

I think he tormented the little girl over her hamburger because the burger was a temptation for him, and to tempt him is to threaten him. And to threaten a narcissist is to make yourself a target. It didn't matter that she's a child, only that eating a burger in his presence makes him want it, which threatens his identity. I bet he shamefully ate meat in the dark when no one was around. FWIW, ethical animal husbandry > veganism. We've changed most of these animals beyond their ability to survive without us through selective breeding, and there is no magical 'free the slave animals' like PETA pretends is possible. We either treat them responsibly or remove them entirely, and I don't think mass slaughter is preferable to ethical husbandry.

Wasn't there a short period of time where he tried to say the "Lisa" was supposed to be a reference The Mona Lisa; that the project was going to be a "an iconic work of art that changed the world" in what was kind-of a prototypical version of the "think different" push used way later on the iMac? Just nobody fell for it then.

I legit cannot believe the LENGTHS Jobs went to* Actively* NOT acknowledge his daughter. Ignoring a daughter? Shitty but predictable. Naming a computer after your daughter and then insisting to her face that you didn't and that she will never receive anything from you because she means nothing to you? Running on some 4D levels of spite there. Gaslight Gatekeep Girl what girl I don't have a girl

is it just me or is it dumb that people keep even asking if the Lisa is named after his daughter Lisa 😭 it's like they're setting up a running bit, it would make more sense if it were like "oh, like your daughter" and he's like "no."

Doesn't want to be their supervised visitor.* If that translated to "doesn't want to be there, maybe considerations should be made for how the arrangement developed.

Behind the Bono

Waiting anxiously for the Apple Newton/Steven Seagal connection.

oh hell yeah i just got off work dawg

37:46 I see you like... Castlevania!

Bo no. That's how I say that bastards self given name.

Having the acronym as part of the acronym has a long history in IT. PHP is short for PHP Hypertext Preprocessor and GNU is short for GNU Not UNIX.

1:08:43

its also succh a dumb thing to strangle the apple 2 but better, that was such a guaranteed sucess its , a bad decision in any acount.

Dr. Pepper FTW!

Elon Musk famously disowned one of his children for being trans, idk about the "at least Elon Musk cares about his children" comments 😐

Robert doesn't meth-shame :D

The man is dead and y'all just ragging on him? Do it again and again lol

first

SomethingAwful is WAAAAAY better than 4chan

Sounds a lot like Elon Musk... in all the bad ways

Man I almost finished the episode until you endorsed Pepsi, the worst tasting battery cleaner in the industry ❤

Is that thing about screaming at the kid corroborated? Like did he have other shit going on at the time?

mmmmmmmm. tuurrpenntiiine.🤤🤤

My dad is an absolute monster, but Steve Jobs is a wonderful reminder that my mom fucking rules.