Superman Isn't Jesus 2

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Күн бұрын

Superman isn't Jesus. Some people disagree. This video gets into why some of these disagreements aren't particularly strong arguments - like the viewpoint that the DCEU's habit of Christ symbolism & typology are actually intended to represent the human perspective of that world, or the idea that the broadly Hebrew ring of the name Kal-El somehow justifies Jesus allegories.
Previous video: • Superman Isn't Jesus.
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A note on Jor-L / Jerome Siegel: The source for this claim is Danny Fingeroth's book 'Disguised as Clark Kent: Jews, Comics, and the Creation of the Superhero', circa page 45, but I couldn't get my hands on a copy of this - all versions I found online were either too expensive or too far away - so this is something of a secondary reference, taking Robert Revington's use of Fingeroth on page 38 of this thesis: macsphere.mcmaster.ca/bitstre...
#superman #dceu #dc
Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
0:48 The Human Perspective
2:45 Naming Kal-el
6:52 A Note on Supersessionism
8:12 Conclusion
Superman is a superhero who appears in American comic books published by DC Comics. The character was created by writer Jerry Siegel and artist Joe Shuster, and debuted in the comic book Action Comics #1 (cover-dated June 1938 and published April 18, 1938). Superman has been adapted to a number of other media, which includes radio serials, novels, movies, television shows, and theatre. Superman was born on the fictional planet Krypton and was named Kal-El. As a baby, his parents sent him to Earth in a small spaceship moments before Krypton was destroyed in a natural cataclysm. His ship landed in the American countryside, near the fictional town of Smallville. He was found and adopted by farmers Jonathan and Martha Kent, who named him Clark Kent. Clark developed various superhuman abilities, such as incredible strength and impervious skin. His adoptive parents advised him to use his abilities for the benefit of humanity, and he decided to fight crime. To protect his personal life, he changes into a colourful costume and uses the alias "Superman" when fighting crime. Clark resides in the fictional American city of Metropolis, where he works as a journalist for the Daily Planet. Superman's supporting characters include his love interest and fellow journalist Lois Lane, Daily Planet photographer Jimmy Olsen and editor-in-chief Perry White, and his enemies include General Zod, Brainiac, and his archenemy Lex Luthor. In Man of Steel Clark learns about the source of his abilities and his real home when he enters a Kryptonian ship in the Artic. However, an old enemy follows him to Earth in search of a codex and brings destruction.

Пікірлер: 819

@PillarofGarbage Жыл бұрын

Also worth noting that of all the disagreement and feedback I got on that initial video, like 90% of the stuff that was actually directly insulting me (as opposed to disagreeing with my argument) was from people also defending Snyder/the Snyderverse - often, seemingly, without actually watching the video itself. If that’s you… there’s a big difference between attacking something/someone and criticising. Please try to remember that - both with regard to my words on the DCEU, and with regard to your responses to this. :)

@sunday.a6570 Жыл бұрын

I agree that Superman isn't Jesus, but I think Superman is supposed to represent hope and the best of humanity. Or something along those lines

@davidbjacobs3598 Жыл бұрын

Toxic fans suck. I hope these comments are a minority.

@Jasmin-lg3gf Жыл бұрын

Not a fan of the Snyderverse, but it could have worked. But when you're making a dark DC like that, you have to stick with it and create a form of Injustice. Superman could then be a symbol of a corrupted hope.

@sunday.a6570 Жыл бұрын

Exactly!! So much wasted potential

@wholethedogsout880 Жыл бұрын

the snyder verse can die for all i care. i care about dc and its characters, not zach snyder and his ego or his manchild cult. that man has trashed these characters and this universe.

@davidbjacobs3598 Жыл бұрын

As a Jew, the moment you said "Kal-El is Hebrew for voice of God," my mind went in two directions: (1) Wait, is it? and (2) That's Moses though. That's obviously Moses. They realize they're backing up your argument, right?

@elishahirschfield6950 Жыл бұрын

as a jew , 100% agree with u , david

@wholethedogsout880 Жыл бұрын

@Erik Kemeey cry some more. zach snyder ruined superman

@dibsdibs3495 Жыл бұрын

Yeah for most of my childhood I remember telling my parents when I grow up I would name my son Kal El because of that. Also shana tova!

@Infamous41 Жыл бұрын

@@wholethedogsout880 ur crying too 😢

@themajesticspider-man6116 Жыл бұрын

@@Infamous41 so are you 😭

@adammyers7383 Жыл бұрын

“Kal-El is Hebrew and therefore Superman is Jesus” is a ridiculously brain-dead take considering Hebrew is considered the sacred language of the Jews and we don’t have Jesus at the center of our religion

@Tim3.14 Жыл бұрын

Seriously! The mental gymnastics it takes to conclude that a couple of Jews giving their character a Hebrew name means he’s supposed to be Jesus! 😂

@onetruesavior69 Жыл бұрын

@@Corinthians-mg7df Just because Jews converted, it doesn't mean that the language is now yours. By that standard, Albanian belongs to Islam, Persian is exclusively Islamic, and Greek is exclusively pagan.

@mainstreetsaint36 Жыл бұрын

@@Corinthians-mg7df As I recall, Hebrew was more of a scholarly language. Aramaic was the language that was used by the common Jewish person.

@LukeLovesRose Жыл бұрын

@@mainstreetsaint36 No. They were primarily speaking Greek at the time

@DWN037 Жыл бұрын

@@LukeLovesRose Oh, I get it! So that means Greek Yogurt _must_ be an allusion to the Christ, then. Very helpful, many thanks.

@Replica_Rabbit Жыл бұрын

Bat-Kol!? So, Batman is the Jesus

@Youknowmyname202 Жыл бұрын

😂

@L-Puffin Жыл бұрын

This is my favorite comment omg

@davidbjacobs3598 Жыл бұрын

I will say that I don't think that translation is accurate. "Kol" translates to "voice," but "Bat" translates to "daughter." It's a very common phrase -- "Bat Mitzvah," for instance, or even in naming you'll get "Gal Bat-Guy" or something like that meaning "Gal, Daughter of Guy." Kol-El seems to be a bit closer, as "El" can be seen as an abbreviation of "Eloheim," although I'm not sure about the grammar there. It might translate more like, "G Voice." So I guess I agree with the original statement, that Kal-El can mean "Voice of God" in an abbreviated sense. I also wouldn't put any weight onto swapping Kol with Kal, because neither of those are actually the correct word, as the correct word is written in Hebrew letters and is not a romance language so I can't type it on my keyboard. Hebrew also de-emphasizes vowels, and has no characters to represent them -- instead, vowels are represented by additional symbols above and below the characters, although it's normal to see words written without these. Now Kol does have 3 characters, with the middle being a Vuv -- this letter is typically pronounced with a "V" sound but is often silent, as it is here. When the Vuv is silent it represents either an "oh" or "oo" depending on which vowel symbols accompany it. So Kol is a less ambiguous than other words (not that any pronunciation is ambiguous), however I still see the vowel as the least important part of the Hebrew word especially when decided on an English spelling. It's like the debate over the proper spelling of Hanukah / Hannukah / Channukkah -- the proper spelling is in another alphabet, you're just spelling out the pronunciation in romance letters. Signed, person who went to Hebrew school

@L-Puffin Жыл бұрын

@@davidbjacobs3598 This was an incredibly neat little lesson on Hebrew, thank you! Signed, Jew who never learned Hebrew outside of Shabbat prayers

@deannevictor536 Жыл бұрын

Lmfao I knew somebody was going to post this. Obviously, Batman-Superman slash fiction is the voice of God. 😂

@gabrielmervis2333 Жыл бұрын

as someone who is both jewish and speaks hebrew, I think it’s important to note that “kal” means “light” as in “not heavy” and not “not dark” also because of hebrew sintax, “kal el” basically means the lightness or weightlessness of god so ya know

@PillarofGarbage Жыл бұрын

Right - I realised that while editing this video and thew it onscreen at 4:38, but I probably should have just re-recorded that section and put it in the voiceover. Definitely a good point to emphasise!

@cervicalvertebrea Жыл бұрын

It references his flying (jk, I just thought that was a funny connection)

@normal6483 8 ай бұрын

Since kal can also be used to mean stuff like "light-hearted" or "easy," do you think it's possible that it also describes the genre? I mean he debuted in a "comic" book, and comic derives from comedy or "the light-hearted, easy going alternative to tragedy."

@TomAmit42 6 ай бұрын

@@PillarofGarbage I think maybe you should pin this comment

@fengusburnt Жыл бұрын

I'm pretty sure Superman, at least in his origin, is modeled more after Moses. A baby sent away in a basket by caring parents, adopted and raised in a new environment, then learning his true origins, revealing great power and responsibility. It's also a little weird to make the creation of two Jewish men into Jesus Christ. Also, I think it's weak filmmaking, to have a character end up in this absurd poses and positions, to remind the audience of something that has more meaning to them than what you're currently viewing.

@fengusburnt Жыл бұрын

Oh, you get into it later in the video. Guess I got too excited to write my opinion.

@fengusburnt Жыл бұрын

@@Corinthians-mg7df Yes and Judiasm has no doctrinal views of Jesus at all. He is not part of their religion, though some view Christ as the embodiment of god (and the concept of the holy trinity) as a form of idolatry and antithetical to their religion.

@fengusburnt Жыл бұрын

@@Corinthians-mg7df Oh because all of the significance of every Crucifixion, rebirth and Jesus symbol for Superman has absolutely nothing to do with Judaism. In fact, a lot of it is in direct opposition to their religion. That's why it's weird. So yeah, if a Islamic writer made a character, and then a Christian went in and tried to turn that character into a allegory for Jesus, that would obviously be weird.

@fengusburnt Жыл бұрын

@@Corinthians-mg7df Hey, you're just making up weird shit. ' You and the uploader seem to be under the impression that a black person shouldn't or couldn't create white characters.' That's made up with no basis. 'Christians shouldn't or couldn't create characters that are based on Jewish figures and vice-versa'. That's made up. We never said that. I get that you're defensive of your religion, but it doesn't get to eat everything else. We don't live in a monoculture, and you don't get to decide ' Christianity actually fulfills and expands upon Judaism' and then ignore what actual Jewish scholars and experts have said for thousands of years. It's funny, I've seen countless trolls in KZfaq comment threads, but I think you're the first one on some kind of evangelical mission. Props for originality.

@user-gr5ud6ch5d Жыл бұрын

@@Corinthians-mg7df There's a difference between a white man creating a black character, and a person not related to a certain religion creating a character that is intentionally an allegory to an important person in said religion. It's like assuming that a character created by some white American is meant to be a Buddha allegory, and then trying to justify it by saying that Buddha was also a man. Also, Xtianity doesn't fucking "fulfill and expand upon Judaism", this is exactly the view of Xtian supersessionism which is very much antisemitic. It dismisses the cultural and religious viewpoint of Jewish people, and a lot of the time just blatantly ignores the fact that Jewish people still exist and observe Judaism today. Your messiah is *not* our messiah, and you can't go around saying that our religion is just Xtianity light, as your "fulfillment and expansion" suggests. Xtianity took some (very little) ideas from Judaism, and threw out most of them, so you don't get to call it an expansion. While I agree that making a character a Jesus allegory as a way to sell more copies makes sense, your original point of Jesus being Jewish has no bearing as Jews don't (usually) care about Jesus. The fact that the historical figure of Jesus was Jewish has little to do with the Xtian figure of Jesus, and more importantly has nothing to do with the lives of current day Jews. Lastly, the person who made this video (and the previous one) did so because his patrons asked him to, and he was mainly explaining why the Jesus allegory is not inherent to Superman (and sometimes doesn't make sense), but still said that the reeve's Superman movies made a good story with it, so I don't think there's any specific hatred of Xtianity.

@kagithkagith Жыл бұрын

The "Who cares?" statement often comes from those who realise you already had a rebuttal for their shaky argument.

@frolicious3761 Жыл бұрын

My fave Jesus allegories are 1. Keanu Reeves from Matrix 2. Jesus Lion from Narnia 3. Jesus from Bible

@JIMT412 Жыл бұрын

Aslan was a clever allegory because he's the King side of Jesus and I love it

@onetruesavior69 Жыл бұрын

Matrix is Gnostic not Christian, so it doesn't really count.

@onewingedangel9189 Жыл бұрын

@@onetruesavior69 but it does??? The whole point is a Jesus allegory, not a Christianity allegory, and most Gnostic sects still viewed Jesus as the Messiah.

@francesconicoletti2547 Жыл бұрын

@@JIMT412 Aslan is Jesus. No allegory needed.

@francesconicoletti2547 Жыл бұрын

@@onetruesavior69 gnostics were Christians. The Catholics didn’t like them very much and did to them what they always do to Christian sects they don’t like.

@ShirDeutch Жыл бұрын

Kal in hebrew means light, but as in the opposite of heavy. It's possible Shuster and Siegel wanted to name him Light of God but mistranslated it. American Jews typically don't speak Hebrew other than in prayers, and if they immigrated from Europe in the late 19th/early 20th century, they probably spoke Yiddish along with the language of their European country of origin. Light of God would be "Or El", which is actually a rather common name in Israel.

@bbrbbr-on2gd Жыл бұрын

Thank god that didn't happen. Joker still can't live down that panel where he says Boner. Lmao

@onetruesavior69 Жыл бұрын

Or El = URIEL!

@Powl_J Жыл бұрын

Orel Puppington is Jesus confirmed

@Chironexe Жыл бұрын

@@onetruesavior69 Uriel Septim?

@gchungus Жыл бұрын

now the real question is Superman a lighter-than-air vehicle

@oldenough5424 Жыл бұрын

It's so weird how people can come up with "counterarguments" like these. I wouldn't mind if this turned into a whole series lol

@lexruptor Жыл бұрын

This ngl. I'd watch a whole series on this. I mean, maybe not superman every time, I definitely feel like other characters in fictional works have suffered from similar things, but absolutely there needs to be a series on this kind of thing

@zinkrichardson1949 Жыл бұрын

Very informative. Depending on the response I'm sure we may be looking forward to a Superman Isn't Jesus 3 and finally Superman Isn't Jesus 4: The Quest for Peace.

@oldmanfran5523 Жыл бұрын

But wait... if Superman is Jesus then, Nuclear Mullet Man is Longinus? And Lex Luthor is Herod? Let's be honest. Kal-El is not the messiah, he's just a very naughty boy

@onetruesavior69 Жыл бұрын

@@oldmanfran5523 He likes thicc... Milkshakes 😳

@siloPIRATE Жыл бұрын

Clark is just T posing to assert dominance

@PillarofGarbage Жыл бұрын

this is the best counter argument by far

@kinoko5566 Жыл бұрын

He T posed on the sun and it healed him, absolute beast.

@gdaw8326 Жыл бұрын

Very happy to see a real argument being made by you, outside of your original video. I often see commentary videos where they make points, whether controversial or not, and then never come back to said points when people bring up counterarguments. Good shit.

@15thobserver Жыл бұрын

I think this is the first time I've had the honor of adding a like and a comment to a video because the creator was both self aware and bold enough to tell the audience to its face "You care!" when asked that ridiculous question. Good on ya.

@milkiassamuel780 Жыл бұрын

Honestly the fact that you gad to make another video about thos subject, really speaks to how flawed this narrative take on Superman has affected public views on Superman. Superman to me, is perfectly represented by Christopher Reeves himself, who said in an interview that Superman represents "a friend". Thatis ehat Superman should be, just a friend and good man who wants to help everyone. BTW Happy Birthday to Christopher Reeves. Rest in Peace. You will always be my Superman.

@grapeshot Жыл бұрын

@Erik Kemeey Christopher Reeve was a much better representation of Superman Christopher Reeves seen humans as his equals. Zack Snyder's Superman is very much so aware of his god-like powers.

@grapeshot Жыл бұрын

Yep I agree Christopher Reeve was a very good representation of Superman considering he saw humans as his equals.

@grapeshot Жыл бұрын

@Erik Kemeey and I'm sure you're an expert on media literacy🙄 it is very plain for everybody to see that this version of Superman is supposed to be some type of Jebus figure.

@marocat4749 Жыл бұрын

He is a superhuman,in that he is a shining example of a moral human, i dont really care as him being human gets shown. Like he is inspiring because he is super-human not super powerful

@marocat4749 Жыл бұрын

@Erik Kemeey Where is his humanity, there is one genuine smile, with lois. And eith man of steel i could accept he had to become that night endless patent rmpsthic beacon of hope. But in bvs, he didnt. And him being the most inspiring earnest human, is superman. And if anyone says thats idealistic, yeah, becaise he is an ideal. Ideals arent meant to be realistic, but to inspire.

@thewoollyviking5928 Жыл бұрын

You should name part 3 “the Quest for Christ” lol

@PillarofGarbage Жыл бұрын

This is an excellent idea which I will almost certainly forget to do

@professorgames3261 Жыл бұрын

@@PillarofGarbage Well I am here to remind you *points a metaphysical gun at your kneecaps*

@EmperorSteele Жыл бұрын

But also, say it five times fast!

@memyselfishness Жыл бұрын

@@PillarofGarbage You probably won't see this, but it might be worth looking into Superman as a Christ-figure or Jewish Messiah. Not specifically Jesus, but God's Anointed to lead them out of darkness and oppression. This is really where the Moses symbolism lies. Superman was literally created as a way to fight back against the horror that the Jews were dealing with at the time. He is a Jewish Messiah. In the New Testament, people thought Jesus was going to be a Jewish Messiah but he ended up as not a literal conquerer or savior but a symbolic one that created Christianity. I find the inadvertent supersession allegory when looking at the allegorical symbolism of Superman to be absolutely amazing. As for Snyder, I think he's exploring the ideas of the Gnostic Christ. Gnosticism is a deep dive, probably deeper than you would want to go, but it seems to me that Man of Steel is going for an exploratory link of Jesus and or God not being good, or at least, not the supreme good. Apocryphal and Gnostic Christian texts explore Jesus hiding his powers away.

@someguy79 Жыл бұрын

predictive text ^^

@UrbanSpidey Жыл бұрын

two things i am very tired of seeing with Superman; the "what if superman, but bad?", and the "superman is a god" narratives. both have been incredibly played out at this point, and come off as attempts to be edgy.

@marocat4749 Жыл бұрын

I mean he is superman,not supergod. :P

@randomcharacter6501 Жыл бұрын

I totally agree with this. Especially when comes to adapting Superman to live action. I'm tired of "different takes" on these heroes, let try some traditional takes for once. Superman doesn't view himself as a god, he just wants to help. It's normally his enemies that view him that way.

@wholethedogsout880 Жыл бұрын

also hate the whole batman v superman plot/trope. im sick of it. let them be friends for fuckin once

@nalday2534 Жыл бұрын

someday a filmmaker will come along who will give us the true superman we deserve and need

@laisphinto6372 Жыл бұрын

the weirdest thing is that how people treat Jesus when the entire point isnt he is some superpowerful amazing angel but a human like you and me the son of god who died for our sins and not him but god did those wonders. every other prophet of god had done wonders because of the faith to god but somehow we think Jesus is a magician like satan who flexes with superpowers. i think they dont know who jesus actually is and snyder is very guilty of the very superficial potrayals

@alisonfool Жыл бұрын

I don’t even consume Superman media frequently but this was fascinating and this follow up was very thoughtfully put together :)

@PillarofGarbage Жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@CaptainRaccoonWhitly Жыл бұрын

It really baffles my mind how prickly people get when you suggest that not everything has to be a Jesus metaphor...

@onetruesavior69 Жыл бұрын

Broke : Superman is Jesus Woke : Muhammad is Jesus Ultra-woke : Jesus is everyone. Jesus is the universe seeing itself, so by taking up your role... You become Jesus!

@Spartan322 Жыл бұрын

I always wonder how in the hell other Christians in the market aren't massively offended by it, its likely because they're mostly nominals who don't give a damn about theology and theonomy, they just like the feel good God-complex.

@forickgrimaldus8301 Жыл бұрын

Not everything about Sups should but IMO it simply what you incorporate to him, I think its more appropriate to say that Superman is more than a simple Jesus Allegory and should be given influences from other sources.

@forickgrimaldus8301 Жыл бұрын

@@onetruesavior69 hilariously I haven't seen that middle one done yet and it kind of doesn't really fit Mainline Sups (I don't think Sups would try and conquer say Apokalips and establish some Qusi-Caliphate anytime soon) unless its a new character.

@wolf1066 5 күн бұрын

They're probably Christians who got fooled by the marketing into paying for tickets and their prickliness is a way of desperately clinging to the diminishing hope that they hadn't "wasted their money on ungodly entertainment."

@TheMemeRepository Жыл бұрын

For my money, I kind of just like my Superman to be a really good guy who happens to have incredible abilities. It seems anytime writers try to make him more "mythologically" significant, they almost immediately begin detracting from what makes him so appealing as a character in the first place, as to make Superman more human, even if he's an exceptionally moral, principled human, would detract from their vision of him as this god-like figure. Thus, we have stuff like the Snyder movies where he has like three lines per films & mainly stands around posing for the rest of his screen time.

@DynestiGTI Жыл бұрын

If you thought Snyder's movies were trying to make him a "god-like figure" then you completely misunderstood. Also it's pretty disingenuous to say all he does is just stand around... The fact he doesn't talk much as Superman is more to do with him being introverted, and feeling disillusioned with modern-day society, which has become even more divided since he arrived, fueled by the constant media attention. Through the visual medium you can see so many emotions, you don't need expository dialogue like in a comic. But even then the lines he does have are plenty, a lot more than 3... His Superman depiction was of someone that wasn't quite ready for the role, and nor was the world ready for him. On the outside he comes across as some god, but that's what anyone would see if a flying man suddenly appeared, the side the public don't see is who he really is, he takes walks to clear his mind (instead of flying), calls his mom when he need advice, cooks for his gf, he is a "really good guy who happens to have incredible abilities", he just also feels the burden of trying to always do the right thing, in a world that constantly judges him and picks him apart if he gets it wrong. But the audience wanted him to smile more and say cheesy catchphrases of truth and hope like it's still the 70s...

@forickgrimaldus8301 Жыл бұрын

Really its nothing new to Sups like a lot of people also Point out Sups is originally mostly based on Sampson and Moses (he can't even fly in the originals that came in later in Animation) The problem is less they do it and more misinterpret things about the character or the Biblical figures they take influence from.

@TheFreakDownStreet Жыл бұрын

While it’s not on topic, I always find Synder’s fans interpretation of his work fascinating. Everything seems to exist in this Skinner’s box of “No, this is how people in the film see things,” and “No, this is how we the audience are meant to see things.” Everything is both a parody and sincere, and at this point I believe none of his fans agree on anything, other than Snyder being brilliant. This isn’t to say anything about his movies. Just that his fans are interesting to watch online.

@laisphinto6372 Жыл бұрын

snyder are on the same dumbass level of jj abrams fans they think their jesus figure snyder or jj are so amazing super smart when most of the time its just flashy visuals with nothing in it and empty mystery boxes

@3mbthelabel Жыл бұрын

Such a shallow and weightless argument.

@TheFreakDownStreet Жыл бұрын

@@3mbthelabel It’s actually an observation. I know everything on the internet can feel like an argument, but sometimes people just are just acknowledging things they’ve noticed.

@user-mx4is4fx3c Жыл бұрын

That's on purpose. Contradictions are a stable part of Snyder's cinematic language. He never takes a clear stance in whatever theme he explores. He does put subtle things in indicating where he stands but the films never directly take a stance. They explore both sides and let the audience decide which is the correct one. Look at arguments in his previous films. Is 300 fascist propaganda or satire of said propaganda? Is sucker punch empowering or exploitative? Does BvS side with Batman or Superman? There's a clear answer if you really look into these movies but also enough exploration of the other side for someone to be able to argue the opposite

@kushastea3961 Жыл бұрын

@@user-mx4is4fx3c lmfaooooooooooo

@Wintermute01001 Жыл бұрын

People are strangely VERY invested in making a character invented by two Jewish guys into a Jesus allegory

@onetruesavior69 Жыл бұрын

Christians especially Western ones love their Imperialism so much that they steal people's culture.

@wolf1066 4 күн бұрын

Look! Up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane! It's Super -Man- session! 😛

@napoleonbuonaparte8975 Жыл бұрын

Other directors: I have to plan all the actors positions to make this scene perfect. Snyder: *T*

@Red_Spidey Жыл бұрын

T-sus

@acrsclspdrcls1365 Жыл бұрын

@DragonFae16 Жыл бұрын

If Kal-El is a Hebrew name, wouldn't that be even more evidence of Superman being an allegory for Moses? I wish I had found this channel when these videos came out, because I found this video and the previous one really informative and the arguments in them completely convinced them. So, POG, if you read this comment, just know that these two videos earned you a subscriber 7 months after they came out.

@lexruptor Жыл бұрын

YAAASSSSS!!!!!!!!! YAAASSSSSS, THANK YOU!!!! This isn't a Pile of Garbage, it's a Pile of Truth!!!!

@DoctorInk20 Жыл бұрын

Nice. Really liked the first video, but it's good seeing this sparked discussion. I think this is best summed up as 'the Jesus aspect is _applicable,_ but it's _not allegorical.'_ Interesting topic, either way. Actually, there's an art book I have, _Mythology: The DC Comics Art Of Alex Ross,_ with illustrated notes that draws parallels between Superman and *Samson* from a certain point in time, i.e. 1930s to 1950s and the 1960s through the 1970s were where Clark takes on the Christ trappings. On a surface level, I can see this, but again, the overall details align consistently with Moses rather than Samson. Just a tid bit I thought I'd throw in, since I didn't see anyone else mention it.

@kennethferland5579 Жыл бұрын

So Kyrptonite is Shaving?

@DoctorInk20 Жыл бұрын

@@kennethferland5579 Sure. A radioactive razor seems suitably Silver Age. 😆

@forickgrimaldus8301 Жыл бұрын

Except when it does so really its a case by case basis, Kingdom Come, Death and Return of Superman, Sups is Jesus when the Themes of the Plot simply fit him, it doesn't always work but you have a Point that it isn't suppose to be allegorical if its not required. I don't think Christ allegory Works on all Superman Stories nor even sometimes the Biblical Characters he takes most from, Sampson and Moses.

@DoctorInk20 Жыл бұрын

@@forickgrimaldus8301 Yes, I agree. For the most part, I think Superman should just be... well, _Superman._ 😆 I don't like to take all the analysis too seriously, mostly because it gets in the way of *having fun.* It's like when I want to talk about _The Wonderful Wizard of Oz:,_ some people I've met will immediately go into the theory of it being a _"secret political satire",_ when really all I want is to enjoy it as a _whimsical fantasy story._ *'Cos it is.* Similar with Superman. 😂

@forickgrimaldus8301 Жыл бұрын

@@DoctorInk20 Yup Superman is his own character after all but the titles the OP has should really be more "Superman isn't Jesus (except when he is)" which sounds dumb but really many comics and fiction are allegorical when they want to be and not in the next installment.

@DzustComics Жыл бұрын

Just another point... What religion did Schuster and Siegel have again? Oh that's right, THEY WERE JEWISH! Great support for that parallel, right? 😂

@grapeshot Жыл бұрын

Yeah basically they should have called Man of Steel, John 3:16.

@theauthority7278 Жыл бұрын

John of steel

@dibsdibs3495 Жыл бұрын

The Passion of the Clark

@theauthority7278 Жыл бұрын

@@dibsdibs3495 the case for clark

@nickthebabba7767 Жыл бұрын

Daddy Steel

@DzustComics Жыл бұрын

Nah, John, or rather Jon is Clarks kid!

@oldmanfran5523 Жыл бұрын

If "Superman is not Jesus III" has crap comedy, a bad Superman vs Clark Kent fight and Richard Pryor, then count me in.

@thatmovienitpicker8070 Жыл бұрын

I can’t remember if you mentioned this in your first vid, but Clark being this grand Messiah figure kinda takes away from what makes Superman so great. His humanity and relatablity

@Stargazer_Ley Жыл бұрын

I think one of the stories that disects the godly Superman image pretty well is that short Kamandi video that I think is part of DC showcase. There's these apes that believe Supes to be "the Mighty One" and have a set of trials trying to find him. But the person who completes the trials doesn't do so just because he's smart and clever enough to do it (he can't fly and isn't bullet proof). He does so because he embodies the qualities of Superman, his humanity and most of all his mercy. He then leaves to try and find the real Superman, once again showing the true qualities of the hero. It shows you how people view Superman but also what really makes him a hero. The best qualities of Superman aren't from his superpowers but his humanity. Making him godlike makes him less of a hero.

@Nortarachanges Жыл бұрын

I love the Death and Life of Superman, and they do a similar thing there. After Supes dies, three people pop up wearing an S wanting to be called Superman. A guy in a visor, a cyborg, and a clone Then there’s Steel. A normal smart Black guy in a mech basically who wears the S to honor Superman, because Supes saved his life. He fights crime, saves people, the whole Superman schtick. And then there’s Bibbo who just put on a Superman sweatshirt. A drunk who won the lottery, feeds the poor, and saves a drowning puppy. If you can’t tell, the two normal dudes who wear an S to honor Superman as they try to help people with what power they have are my favorites ^_^

@erbylopez6003 Жыл бұрын

I’m a devout Christian myself and I honestly find Superman’s connection to Moses much more compelling narratively than the whole “Superman is Jesus” thing. To us, maybe there is a glint of Jesus in all out heroes, but it is much more compelling and instructive when our heroes are human and we can relate to them as such. It’s kind of why as an adult Superman bores me. And I find him even annoying the way Snyder especially portrays him. He the most powerful being on this planet and all he does is sulk about how he has to help all these basic humans. In my opinion they don’t even get Jesus right.

@grapeshot Жыл бұрын

Yeah I remember that scene where he's hovering over the flood of victims with the look on his face like should I save them or not. Christopher Reeve Superman would've just been down there in a heartbeat saving them.

@grapeshot Жыл бұрын

@Erik Kemeey yep I've been paying attention to the movie and as far as I'm concerned he was hovering over there like I know I'm god. The simple fact is this Superman is basically Jesus that's the truth I don't really care if you don't like that take on him but you'll get over it if you don't like it.

@marocat4749 Жыл бұрын

@@grapeshot Yeah superman should not just be a super being,but super human and try to look actually human, in the best way possible, and not cold distanced. Like its even in parts because they wanted to screw you twisted superhuman idea that germans inww2, thats what a superman really is.

@grapeshot Жыл бұрын

@Erik Kemeey and once again Superman was very much so aware of his guy like powers and you could see that all in that scene now you can leave your comment as much as you want to and you will get the same response from me in return and we can go round and round got it?

@kaustubhpalkar792 Жыл бұрын

It was just a scene. It really doesn't tell anything.

@grapeshot Жыл бұрын

@@kaustubhpalkar792 maybe not to you but it did to me and a number of other people I've talked too. Because as you know seems project an image duh.

@jmace2424 Жыл бұрын

You did such a great job with these videos! It made me think that part of “the American Way” for a lot of immigrants is figuring out what to do with your heritage in a new land.

@plaidpvcpipe3792 Жыл бұрын

IMO, the most apt comparison you could make is that Superman is a representation of an American Jew. He goes to a strange world, and people are afraid of who he is. He has two names, one from Earth and another from his own people. He struggles with his identity as he lives as Clark Kent, all while he tries his best to help other people with the powers he has. There are a lot of parallels.

@forickgrimaldus8301 Жыл бұрын

In his original form (as in his 1st few issues) yes but now he is more a genralised ideal for what people should strive for, the appropriate use of power, how one should help the weak ect. Originally its a metaphor for immigrant life.

@Spongebrain97 Жыл бұрын

This is totally unrelated to this video but the other day Jason Mamoa posted a picture of a cool tattoo he got which is based around his Native Hawaiian heritage and something stood out to me. You know how when movie adaptations cast actors or actresses that aren't the same ethnicity as their characters are from the source material, especially with comic books? I wonder why there was like zero outrage with Mamoa when the traditional Aqua Man character is a blonde hair blue eyed white dude, and while Mamoa himself is mixed, his version of the character fully embraces a Polynesian appearance. I like his version but I do wonder why the online right didn't call it "woke" like they do with every other casting decision that doesnt meet their standards

@kaustubhpalkar792 Жыл бұрын

Jason mamoa was cool as aquaman but we can't deny that they race swiped the character.

@marocat4749 Жыл бұрын

There were a lot of changes of aquaman, like he fits really well the buff aquaman. Like he honestly thebest actor, also white dudes arent a minority in society or lack representation.

@PillarofGarbage Жыл бұрын

Good point, I’ll have to look into that. If I had to guess, I think that casting was done before the anti-woke crowd really got going / took the form they’ve taken as of 2022, so maybe that’s one of the reasons?

@Spongebrain97 Жыл бұрын

@@marocat4749 no I know but when white characters are portrayed by non white actors, the online right explodes, as seen most recently with the little mermaid

@Alkeeros Жыл бұрын

My guess is he's "white enough" that it doesn't spark outrage in that circle.

@ethankillion786 Жыл бұрын

Superman's Kryptonian name, Kal-El, is written in Hebrew as קל-אל , translated as “voice of God.” He was, in part, inspired by the Golem of Prague, the clay monster of yore created by Rabbi Judah Loew to defend the Jews from their enemies. Samson was the strongest man in The Bible.

@7StringBlazer Жыл бұрын

I watched the previous video when you released it and in watching this one I think it's a great argument you're making. I also really have to say that I appreciate how objective you've kept the videos -- while covering all this you didn't feel the need to shoehorn in your own theological opinions; Comparing this with another KZfaq creator who covered Trigun regarding Vash and Wolfwood's morality and how he tries to avoid being interested in things regarding Christianity and his status as an atheist at the end. Gets a bit eye-roll inducing after a while when you're trying to see an objective breakdown of a topic. So, kudos man!

@neolunaticus Жыл бұрын

Superman was more modeled after the golem from Jewish myth than anything. Jacob Geller made an entire video on that.

@forickgrimaldus8301 Жыл бұрын

His original apperances but Abrahamic Imagery (as in Christian, Judaism imagery) is more appropriate after the 90s, Sups is a Combination of many Abrahamic Characters but the excution is what counts especially with how authors generally take the wrong things (for example Jesus imagery and allegory can work but you have to be smart with what you take, for example remebering that Jesus in the Gosples is as much a man as he is the Messiah, this is the same for any Biblical or other figures you want to incorporate to Sups)

@normal6483 8 ай бұрын

While Der Golem was a major influence that the creators admitted was an inspiration, I find that it's often over-represented in discussions of Jewish superheroes. Superman's creators cited several other figures that inspired him, such as Moses, Hercules, and I believe Solomon. Fun fact! Captain America was inspired largely by King David. That's why he has a star on his shield.

@damientom Жыл бұрын

Why are people arguing in favor of Superman as Jesus?

@fengusburnt Жыл бұрын

Man, you're right about the reaction Pillar of Garbage. People are incredibly defensive of Superman as a Christ figure, to the degree they're offended by any other idea, even ones that are way more supported by the source material.

@anitanielsen1061 Жыл бұрын

7:30 Got me a snorting laugh XD and you did it with Johnlock!

@sock2828 Жыл бұрын

I had never really thought about how Superman is sorta just Moses.

@onetruesavior69 Жыл бұрын

Next on this Channel : Superman is Muhammad, Superman is Buddha, and Superman is Zoroaster in Crisis of Infinite Religions.

@ArmedWithMonkeys Жыл бұрын

How sure are we that Siegel even spoke hebrew? Based on his age he was more likely to speak yiddush than hebrew. Not that there isn't crossover, but I wouldn't expect a hidden easer egg in what was still a mostly dead language unless there was a direct yiddush meaning also.

@PuddleOfCats Жыл бұрын

If this becomes a series it would be very funny to see crisis on infinite religions as a title one day or at least something along the lines of using a popular arc title in the DC universe

@onetruesavior69 Жыл бұрын

It would be funny because Batman will be Mahdi, Superman will be Jesus, so we just need Maitreya and Zoroasterian messiah to make a cool band to defeat the Antichrist's Anti-Life matter corn juice.

@TheXplanations Жыл бұрын

As a Christian, I personally don't like 'Jesus Parallels' and 'Biblically inspired' fiction. Not because I'm some strict fundamentalist believing everything has to be 1:1 with the scriptures, I love allegorical work. It's for the sole reason that it usually becomes a complete 180 of what the actual message of the bible story said author and director states they are 'inspired by' is meant to be about Your first video did a great job showing why the parallel made no sense and anyone arguing about that really didn't watch the video. But that is common when you have a Good Thumbnail and polarizing title coming from a small content creator making similar content. I even did a video this week also touching on the same topic from a Christian perspective but also touched on how a particular Marvel author tried the same thing with Thor. It baffles me how someone (especially Christians) can see Superman snapping a man's neck and still go "This is a great Jesus Allegory". That is just something I personally don't get as someone who reads the bible and understands scripture and the story of Christ. But overall your points are insightful and well thought-out and I great job on the series....Part 3 soon?

@WedgeOfSpite Жыл бұрын

People using Hebrew and the Jewish creators of Superman kind of misses the whole point of why there are Old and New Testaments, and how ya know, how the creators identified as Jewish, and not Christian. That people missed that very obvious point is depressing, but not unexpected.

@neyou6940 8 ай бұрын

The creators were jewish, they said that

@vinniedavies7047 Жыл бұрын

I'm going to heavily disagree about MoS not dealing with public perception of Supes. There is an entire thread with his father regarding how the world will view him once he reveals himself, how they will cast him as a god or demon. Just because there are no other characters present in these scenes doesn't mean it is not meant to symbolize how he's to be viewed. Throughout the whole movie he's just a man trying to find his role in the world, and ultimately he comes to the conclusion that he doesn't have all the answers but will stand proudly in front of the world and at least try, because humanity is worth that.

@superkid801 Жыл бұрын

Excellent follow up on the last video. I agree with your points and understand very much how you feel on the comments.

@brak666 Жыл бұрын

5:51 Definitely not me only just now realizing why Superman's grandfather is named Seyg-El

@DFWanderingKid Жыл бұрын

I was curious about the lack of discussion in your video about Metatron (aka voice of god) when referencing that version of the name. Then I did some more research about the source materials (the book of Enoch, the Talmud, etc...) and realized I'd forgotten far more than I'd thought and lost too much of the original source material in adaptations in movies and other fiction. If for no other reason, thanks for the reminders that going back to the source is important. Good rebuttals to multiple arguments. Have a like.

@PhilFromSchool Жыл бұрын

Didn't realise there would be so much backlash to that previous video of yours :x

@DatGermanBoii Жыл бұрын

I feel like this dude is attacking The Last Son of Alcatraz

@kharyrobertson3579 Жыл бұрын

The big double down. I feel like you hit the nail on the first video, but this really drove it home

@ivysawras Жыл бұрын

there was even a storyline in peter davids supergirl run which was centered around the fact that supergirl and superman were not deities of any kind and are not meant to be worshiped or viewed as such.

@majinvegeta6364 Жыл бұрын

Pillar of Garbage has become one of my favorite channels this year

@keittkatranch5167 Жыл бұрын

In the Silver Age of comics Kal-El was said to mean Star Child. But I think they dropped that after Crisis on Infinite Earths.

@IanFerguson Жыл бұрын

I'll wait for Superman is not Jesus IV: the Quest for Peace.

@LucasGonzalez-rj9bk Жыл бұрын

As a Catholic, I appreciate the links made between Superman, Jesus and Moses. They share an archetype: the savior. Superman was sent both to save his life and also to help the earth. I don’t think it’s wrong to link Superman to Jesus, especially in Snyder’s case where he is very much playing with biblical themes and is open about it. It’s not the only way to portray Superman, and I would like to see a story that leans more into the Moses connection, but it’s valid all the same. Superman is not Jesus anymore than Moses is, but I think we can all agree their stories share common, themes, imagery, and messages.

@satelliteprime Жыл бұрын

Making Superman Jesus is to simultaneously make Superman far less interesting and to miss the point of Jesus. And I say this as someone who loves Man of Steel. I really do enjoy that film and even BvS to varying degrees (and who would probably cite Synder's League as my favorite superhero movie to date if asked on the spot), but the *DCAU* understood Superman far better than the *DCEU* ever has.

@plaidpvcpipe3792 Жыл бұрын

And on Rosh Hashanah! What a great start to the year. Thanks.

@mandalorianhunter1 Жыл бұрын

People love being butt hurt about being corrected. I couldn't get my opinion of why I liked other versions of Superman better then the DCEU without people telling me I'm wrong, that DCEU Superman is great, explaining to me why he acts that way when I knew the reason why, or just called me a Synder hater. Pathetic. I can't believe you had to make another video to prove people wrong again and their is a chance you will have to do it again. Honestly, time for a controversial opinion from me, but from what I get from Christians is that they like to see themselves as the chosen ones, the ones who are right or their religion is the correct one. I just meet some of the worst people who come from that. I meet good Christians to and I'm glad I do, but I just meet and see horrible ones.

@mandalorianhunter1 Жыл бұрын

@Erik Kemeey Alright what are the Snyder films actually saying since you know? It's not making it the default but it has happened in multiple interpretations of the character that a lot of people have seen it as the default, that's why he used various clips from different Superman shows. What negative feedback are you talking about? Yeah, we got other Supermen who have the same doubts as well You say "let me refrain from saying this but" and then you go on and say it. Oh really? Please explain the cues? I love to hear what you mean?

@gaidencastro9706 Жыл бұрын

I'm having troubel wrapping my head around what made Captain Marvel work in EMH. Can you do a video on her?

@PillarofGarbage Жыл бұрын

I’ll put it on the list, but I’ve got quite a lot of stuff in the works at the moment

@gaidencastro9706 Жыл бұрын

@@PillarofGarbage Thanks for reading my comment

@GrandArchPriestOfTheAlgorithm Жыл бұрын

The fact that Snyder fanboys are willing to defend Man of Still is beyond me. We lost a good The Question movie for ok-at-best DBZ movie.

@danialtarki572 Жыл бұрын

Superman isn’t Jesus. Superman is Superman.

@nvwest Жыл бұрын

literally first video in my subsciption box after finishing superman and lois season 2 five minutes ago

@PillarofGarbage Жыл бұрын

based KZfaq algorithm

@nvwest Жыл бұрын

@@PillarofGarbage Always check my subscription before going to the home page, so I guess it's just that I like your channel and already was subscribed

@sumanoskae Жыл бұрын

"Nobody cares" is usually just a transparent attempt to shut down an argument that you know you're losing. An insecure person scrambling to save face by suggesting the debate was pointless anyway. Which begs the question as to why they bothered to comment on it. It's the conversational equivalent of offering a draw in chess when your opponent has you pinned.

@bestjobro539 Жыл бұрын

Superman isn't Jesus Electric Bogaloo

@JIMT412 Жыл бұрын

In "Superman isn't Jesus" you can tackle the Nixonverse on how it interprets both Superman and Jesus and how the Cresent King is the corruption of both.

@UltraLuigi2401 Жыл бұрын

There's another comment about the Hebrew thing, but I thought I'd provide some more information, since I'm a Jew who also learned Hebrew. You mentioned "Kal-El" meaning "light of God", which really confused me because I know that the Hebrew word for light, אור, is transliterated "or". Then I remembered the other meaning for "light" in English (which is as opposed to heavy), and realized you were referring to קל (transliteration: "kal"), which primarily means "easy" but could also be used for the other meaning of "light".

@lewisanderton8062 Жыл бұрын

Superman Isn't Jesus 3 - The third video to complete your holy trinity.

@BlisaBLisa Жыл бұрын

lol one of the comments in the screenshot calling the video anti Christian... i feel like a lot of Christians in many parts of the world forget the world doesn't revolve around them, saying that its "anti Christian" to say a character is jewish and not Christian is... disrespectful in a way they probably don't realize.

@JeremyWS Жыл бұрын

In all honesty, Superman as a Jesus analogy has always sat wrong with me. [I'm a Christian.] When it comes to Jesus analogies in fiction, Superman is not a good one and we have better ones. [And yes, I thought this before having seen either one of your videos. Your videos just gave me better reasons as to why "Superman is Jesus" never sat right with me.] Aslan is Jesus, Neo is Jesus, and Harry Potter is Jesus. Also, Jesus himself has shown up in comics from time to time, in both DC and Marvel. I also think it'd be interesting to see a Superman movie that just gives us a Superman story, not anything more and not anything less. I prefer DC Comics over Marvel Comics.

@myrrhbear Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I wrote about this too in a comment on your previous video having not realized you already tried to tackle this. THANKS so much for taking the time to do good research and to make these videos!!! For clarification, Kal in this case was highly unlikely to mean anything. It does NOT mean voice in Hebrew unless one is trying to force a round peg into a square hole. Col, as you said, means voice, but kal means light as in insubstantial or lacking weight (it does not mean radiance), but Jor means nothing as there isn't a J in Hebrew. And these names were made up by two Jewish men for whom assuming they were making any sort of Jesus references makes no sense at all. Being Jewish they simply drew on Hebrew loosely for coming up with the characters names. . But El on the other hand IS one of the Hebrew names for G-d, and is used as a suffix on MANY Hebrew names. Avi-El (Aviel meaning G-d is my father), Ari-El (Ariel meaning Lion of G-d), Natan-El (Nathaniel meaning G-d gave), Azri-El (Azriel meaning G-d helps me), Rapha-El (Raphael meaning G-d heals), Reu-El (Reuel which is Tolkien's middle name btw meaning G-d shepherds), Samu-El (Samuel meaning G-d has heard), Gabri-El (Gabriel meaning G-d strengthens me), Micha-El (Michael meaning Who/there is none other like G-d), Dani-El (Daniel meaning G-d is my judge), and most poignant here Isra-El (Israel, the very name of the Jewish people meaning Prince of G-d or one who struggled with divine beings i.e. the angel that wrestled with him all night, and with people and prevailed). As for House of El, this is a direct translation of Beit-El/Beth-El which is a place that is mentioned many, many times in the Hebrew Torah (Bible) and is prominent and important to the Jewish people. It's a place near Jerusalem that is significant for Abraham and for Jacob being the place in which he receives his name change to IsraEl. forvo.com/word/beit_el/ I am Jewish and my own son's name is Shir-El meaning Song of G-d.

@eliburry-schnepp6012 Жыл бұрын

Honestly I think that drawing a link between an alleged HEBREW phrase about God written by JEWS and Jesus is directly supercessionist and antisemitic. The idea that Christians cannot even hear us refer to our god without saying "THAT'S OURS" is insulting on a deep and disturbing level

@baked7423 Жыл бұрын

voice of god referring to moses makes more sense considering this is the dude who literally received the ten commandments from God himself to *tell* the jews

@faldororlaridon2691 Жыл бұрын

As a Christian, it boggles my mind to think that people would be comparing Superman to Jesus...just, why would you do that? Why does this fictional character need to be modelled after Jesus, especially with his Jewish roots? He's got so many Moses similarities that I didn't think about before watching a few videos like this, but they make tons of sense and allow me to appreciate Superman even more. Let Superman be who he is, dangit!

@adamlegros1180 Жыл бұрын

Its interesting u mentioned moses, I’ve always seen superman more like him, an outsider sent in a vessel to escape destruction, and destined to liberate save and lead people to the promised land

@davidbjacobs3598 Жыл бұрын

Posted this in a reply but wanted to post it here too -- I don't think the "Bat-Kol" translation is accurate. "Kol" translates to "voice," but "Bat" translates to "daughter." It's a very common phrase -- "Bat Mitzvah," for instance, or even in naming you'll get "Gal Bat-Guy" or something like that meaning "Gal, Daughter of Guy." The link you show also literally translates "Bat-Kol" as "daughter of voice." Kol-El seems to be a bit closer, as "El" can be seen as an abbreviation of "Eloheim," although I'm not sure about the grammar there. It might translate more like, "G Voice." So I guess I agree with the original statement, that Kal-El can mean "Voice of God" in an abbreviated sense. I also wouldn't put any weight onto swapping Kol with Kal, because neither of those are actually the correct word, as the correct word is written in Hebrew letters and is not a romance language so I can't type it on my keyboard. Hebrew also de-emphasizes vowels, and has no characters to represent them -- instead, vowels are represented by additional symbols above and below the characters, although it's normal to see words written without these. Now Kol does have 3 characters, with the middle being a Vuv -- this letter is typically pronounced with a "V" sound but is often silent, as it is here. When the Vuv is silent it represents either an "oh" or "oo" depending on which vowel symbols accompany it. So Kol is a less ambiguous than other words (not that any pronunciation is ambiguous), however I still see the vowel as the least important part of the Hebrew word especially when decided on an English spelling. It's like the debate over the proper spelling of Hanukah / Hannukah / Channukkah -- the proper spelling is in another alphabet, you're just spelling out the pronunciation in romance letters. Also when referencing something in this way, it's normal in literature to change the spelling a bit -- like how all the Eternals' names are derived, or how "Lupin" comes from "Lupus," or "Hamlet" from "Amleth." Of course "Light of God" (or "G Light" I guess) also makes sense here. I wouldn't argue against either interpretation. And of course I agree with you that either way this references Moses, not Jesus, even if it's intended and not just a coincidence. (It does feel a bit TOO coincidental to be a coincidence... Love the idea that "Jor-El" is a reference to Siegel himself, and don't think these contradict each other.) Note I'm not an expert nor fluent in Hebrew, just an American Jew who went to Hebrew school 20 years ago. Would love to hear from someone fluent who doesn't need Google's assistance!

@PillarofGarbage Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the comment and for sharing your perspective. Re: Bat-Kol, to my understanding it may be translated literally as Daughter of God, but that the phrase is used in Biblical settings mostly to connote a ‘voice of god’. Not sure how that works linguistically, but that’s what my research pointed to.

@PillarofGarbage Жыл бұрын

dude what I've obviously seen the films

@wongjefx980 Жыл бұрын

that expression Superman makes when being recharged by the Sun... while the same I make after a good expelling on the toilet... and I don't think I am anywhere near Jesus-like.. ha ha. tbh I take more issue with Trump stating on many occasions he is Jesus or like Jesus or King David... that is really f'd up....

@Mitcheck315 Жыл бұрын

speaking from personal experience, calling the bible unlicensed fan fiction may make people very angry so good luck with that lol

@erdood3235 Жыл бұрын

It's true though

@NintenDobs Жыл бұрын

The first comparison I had heard made between Superman and Christ wasn't the savior angle, but rather one of popularity/recognition. Whether it was based in fact or not didn't really matter, regardless, it became a popular thing to throw into any "nerdy" conversations that 'the Superman symbol is more recognizable around the world than the holy cross'(at that point, so circa 2006, as this was a popular statement when I was in high school still). That was the only comparison I had ever heard between Supes and Christ until the Man of Steel trailer had him floating through space as if Kal-El was on the cross himself lol. So I guess they're both extremely popular dudes recognized by billions worldwide, but apart from that, there isn't much these guys have in common unless you really simplify both of their stories down to just the opening dialogue of All-Star Superman: "Doomed planet. Desperate scientists. Last hope. Kindly couple."

@KR-ue1gd Жыл бұрын

Superman has a symbol? Now I have to look it up and see if I recognize it!

@forickgrimaldus8301 Жыл бұрын

Yes and No Superman is a generalised metaphor for Many, Many Biblical/Abrahamic figures, the Jesus thing was a more recent addition introduced in the 90s and 80s especially after stories like, the Death of Superman, All-Star Superman and Kingdom Come. He has the struggle of Power and ressurection from death from Jesus sure but he also has The Streingth of Sampson The Origin, relationships and internal stuggle of identity in some stories from Moses.

@forickgrimaldus8301 Жыл бұрын

@@KR-ue1gd superman is really any Biblical/Religious individual you want him to embody.

@dreamerfrostbite2066 Жыл бұрын

personally I (kind of) disagree with some points but im still going to support you by subbing and liking the video because im not a jerk and really respect your take on this and I honestly want to hear more about it. actually I have a few ideas for if you do make a third part on this topic if you don't mind, could you please talk more about his history and compare some of the different versions of him to Snyder's? also I genuinely would like a more progressive/hardworking and caring superman compared to the "superman is Jesus" version we see a lot.

@vazak11 5 ай бұрын

Great responses!

@MintTea2005 Жыл бұрын

Wtf I just watched your first one last night- HOW DOES THIS ALWAYS HAPPEN TO ME?!

@PillarofGarbage Жыл бұрын

Well, I saw the first video had been picking up steam on the algorithm again so I moved this video up the production schedule :D

@MintTea2005 Жыл бұрын

@@PillarofGarbage Yeah but still, I have this weird luck where when I get introduced to something, it’ll be days, weeks, or months before a sequel comes out. Like when it comes to Berserk, when the author passed away most fans had to wait years for Berserk to finally continue. But because I got into it this February, I didn’t have to wait very long for it. One of the best manga ever, I’m so glad the author’s close friend is continuing his work

@lornm1856 Жыл бұрын

Even trisha payetas knew that Moses was the voice of god for the Jewish people in her song

@IronKore Жыл бұрын

Appropriating Christ for fictional figures is only a pagan thing and I think these characters have had their own meaning from way back when. It's irritating having surface conversations with people who turn critical parts of other people's faiths into figurines for their escapism

@matanshapira10 Жыл бұрын

Kal means light, but not the shiny kind... it means the opposite of heavy or the difficulty opposite of hard.

@user-tw3pj6rf9l Жыл бұрын

I would also note that Kal-El definitely doesn't mean "Light of God". That would be "Or-El". While "Kal" does mean "Light" in Hebrew, it doesn't mean light as in illumination, but rather as "lightweight" or "easy". "Kal-El" has really no meaning in Hebrew, or at least none as a single phrase. If one would insist on reading it as Hebrew, it might be translated as "Easy. A god." -- but not as the complete phrase "An easy god", because the syntax is wrong for that. Just as two separate phrases, unconnected.

@WhiskeyPete5 Жыл бұрын

You are absolutely correct. Superman could be upgraded or updated by the character doing more than just being super strong or impervious to anything. A super intelligent maybe telekinetic being. George Reeves's Superman explored some interesting things we could see with this character.

@3mbthelabel Жыл бұрын

This take on Superman displayed him doing everything he could to save and protect humans just for his existence to be questioned and even through all of that he still decides to wear the cape and help, even going as far to sacrifice himself to people he owe nothing to. That's Superman. Stop with this ridiculous narrative.

@erdood3235 Жыл бұрын

@@3mbthelabel what's the problem?

@mainstreetsaint36 Жыл бұрын

No telekinesis, please. That would be as out of place as the whole electric powers phase.

@erdood3235 Жыл бұрын

@@mainstreetsaint36 i think that is a reference to The superman character that the creators created in 1935

@normal6483 8 ай бұрын

@@mainstreetsaint36 But what about TTK? It's hot! It's hip! It's tactile! Everyone hates how much Superboy talks about it!

@worldwidepolls7464 Жыл бұрын

Could you also consider the Golem? I mean a being made to stand up for the opressed and fight against an overarching power? Also unlike Jesus, the golem does beat the shit out of the bad guys

@pcdm43145 Жыл бұрын

One thing I'm kinda surprised you missed in both essays, is the "Moses vs Pharaoh" dynamic between Supes & Lex Luthor. I think that's why, of all the other villains in the _Superman_ franchise, that one has endured far longer than any other villain. Hell, even the name "Lex Luthor" has sort of a pseudo-Egyptian, Art Deco-ish sound to it (at least to my ears). Anyway, keep doin' what you're doin'. All the best, my friend.

@grandcanyon-fu9zt Жыл бұрын

I never saw this before

@forickgrimaldus8301 Жыл бұрын

Kind of it makes sense in a few things but Lex just doesn't have the Kryponians as Servants angle but for the most part it fits with his prejudice against Sups, Lex is really more a metaphor for Prejudiced people in Power for the Original Sup runs now he is more a generalised corrupt business man who still retains the original intent to some degrees.

@feliciastaldotter5168 Жыл бұрын

Even if his name was meant to reference Jesus I think thats somewhat of a weak point towards "he was meant to be Jesus"alone, it would point that way but you'd have to back it up with how they wrote him too

@forickgrimaldus8301 Жыл бұрын

It depends on the situation really, in a Character creation stand point no he is influenced by mostly Old Testament/Hebrew scripture, Moses, Sampson ect. But the Jesus thing works when its specific to the themes and plot of the story one wants to tell its not a simple "originally he wasn't inspired by Jesus so it doesn't always works" which is likely not what the OP ment, Superman is really both a Jesus Allegory and Not it just depends on what you do with your story.

@matthewneil6606 Жыл бұрын

As a christian I saw some saying they liked seeing Superman as a Jesus figure and they're Christians but unless it is intended for the character to model Jesus' life and message (like Aslan in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S Lewis, who was a devout Christian) I find it to be a little blasphemous

@wolf1066 4 күн бұрын

"Superman was created by two Jewish guys, how *_dare_* you suggest he wasn't a Christ allegory from day one!" LOL.

@ragingmonkeycritic Жыл бұрын

I love how their looking into the name origins of Superman, derived from a man who is super and lives in a city called Metropolis

@edj8008 Жыл бұрын

As a semi religious agnostic christian I can't help thinking that it's kind of ...blasfemi for lack of a better word..... to hammering in that Clark is Jesus?

@leorblumenthal5239 Жыл бұрын

Regarding the possible Hebrew translation of "Kal-El", it really depends on how you spell it in Hebrew. There are three possibilities: קול-אל or "The voice of God", קל-אל "lightness of God", or כל-אל "everything that is God". I think the correct spelling would be קל-אל, not either of the other two. קל does mean "light", but meaning the opposite of heavy, not "light" meaning the opposite of dark. That word is אור. Long story short, Siegel and Shuster probably didn't intend the name Kal-El to be associated with God at all, especially given the science fiction origin Superman was given.

@bishbashpotatopriest8310 Жыл бұрын

There was a scene in Man of Steel I noticed where Clark goes to a church to talk to the priest and in one shot you see behind Clark, there's a stained glass portrait of Jesus symbolizing what's coming.

@mainstreetsaint36 Жыл бұрын

I viewed it as Clark being in the presence of grace. That he wasn't anything close to Jesus but rather he was following Christ's example, being humble.