Superman Isn't Jesus.
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Күн бұрынSuperman adaptations, particularly films, are really, really fond of framing Clark Kent / Kal-El as some sort of Jesus Christ figure. Whether this symbolism is visual or narrative in nature, it is very visible, perhaps more than ever in Zack Snyder's treatment of the character in the so-called 'Snyderverse'. The link is older than this, but it isn't anywhere near as old as the Man of Steel himself. In this video, we get into the history of this link, as well as why it often fails to pay off, thematically speaking, and some alternative options DC could look into going forward.
P.S. It was pointed out to me recently that in videos discussing Jewish culture, I should probably be doing more to elevate Jewish voices. I agree, and am actively looking into the best ways to do this in the future.
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Links to online sources:
EW Article: ew.com/article/2013/06/17/man...
Hooded Utilitarian: www.hoodedutilitarian.com/201...
Revington's Thesis: macsphere.mcmaster.ca/bitstre...
Independent: www.independent.co.uk/arts-en...
Centre Row's video: • Superman As Jesus: Zac...
Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
0:47 The Christ parallels
2:40 Man of Steel
8:28 Intrinsic vs extrinsic
10:01 Superman as Jesus, a history
14:29 Jewish Superman
17:23 Evolving symbols?
23:06 The bad fit
28:09 Conclusion
#superman #dc #dceu
Superman is a superhero who appears in American comic books published by DC Comics. The character was created by writer Jerry Siegel and artist Joe Shuster, and debuted in the comic book Action Comics #1 (cover-dated June 1938 and published April 18, 1938). Superman has been adapted to a number of other media, which includes radio serials, novels, movies, television shows, and theatre. Superman was born on the fictional planet Krypton and was named Kal-El. As a baby, his parents sent him to Earth in a small spaceship moments before Krypton was destroyed in a natural cataclysm. His ship landed in the American countryside, near the fictional town of Smallville. He was found and adopted by farmers Jonathan and Martha Kent, who named him Clark Kent. Clark developed various superhuman abilities, such as incredible strength and impervious skin. His adoptive parents advised him to use his abilities for the benefit of humanity, and he decided to fight crime. To protect his personal life, he changes into a colourful costume and uses the alias "Superman" when fighting crime. Clark resides in the fictional American city of Metropolis, where he works as a journalist for the Daily Planet. Superman's supporting characters include his love interest and fellow journalist Lois Lane, Daily Planet photographer Jimmy Olsen and editor-in-chief Perry White, and his enemies include General Zod, Brainiac, and his archenemy Lex Luthor. In Man of Steel Clark learns about the source of his abilities and his real home when he enters a Kryptonian ship in the Artic. However, an old enemy follows him to Earth in search of a codex and brings destruction.
@PillarofGarbage Жыл бұрын
Sequel kzfaq.info/get/bejne/obp1pcSnt7qUqqM.html
@gamingdragon1356 Жыл бұрын
Superman has nothing to do with Jesus. Superman doesn't work in movies because he is a very very boring character as such compare him to something like homelander from the tv series boys as such that guy is a far more entertaining character. Spiderman is another example, who is an entertaining character. The second reason is Superman is just portrayed as invincible. It's easy to cheer for someone when he is the underdog sometimes at least as such if Superman was in Avengers nothing would have worked on him and he would have won against everyone just because he is Superman.
@straightblackgirl Жыл бұрын
@@gamingdragon1356 Tell me you know nothing about Superman without saying you know nothing about Superman.
@Hertz2laugh Жыл бұрын
Superman is literally comicbook Jesus - a being who looks like us but has godlike powers, sent to earth by his father to do good and save the world. The fact that his name is Kal- *_EL_* , and is son of Jor- *_El_* is a slap-you-in-the-face-level clue that he is intended to be an analog for God/Jesus because "El" is the Hebrew word for God (Elohim) Attempting to make Superman something different than Jesus is to abandon his fundamental essence. It's why he's a bad character in the first place. They should stop trying to make media around him. Other characters are much easier to market without having to abandon the essence of the character. Superman was around when comic books were about punching robbers while wearing tight outfits. Trying to push him into a deep, complex character is attempting to turn lead into gold.
@shirothegamer7574 Жыл бұрын
What's with the constant golden age susperman fanboying in this video? The chistian references started in the silver age, continued in the bronze age, abd continues into the modern age.
@itsh7311 Жыл бұрын
@@shirothegamer7574 because that's the original
@AzA609 Жыл бұрын
Comparing Superman to Jesus means the writers don't understand Clark Kent. Superman is nothing without Clark. He is not an alien. Clark can be literally anything with his powers but chooses to be a hero because of Johnathan and Martha Kent. Humans inspire Clark as much as Superman inspires them.
@Omniseed Жыл бұрын
yeah, and allowing him to be human by parentage despite his alien background allows him to fail to live up to the ideals and values that lead him to create his hero persona. not always in dramatic 'evil superman' ways, but learning moments where he has to reconcile his abilities with his ideals in a practical and uncontrolled environment full of other people who he really does want to respect and if needed protect. so he doesn't need to be perfect, he can face conflict in the form of struggling to accomplish his seemingly simple but realistically varied and complicated goals.
@Gemnist98 Жыл бұрын
I’m not sure that works. Just like Jesus was both human and deity, Superman is both human and Kryptonian. And both of them took the best of both worlds to save Earth. While I’m also over Jesus Superman, what you’re saying is a genuine parallel.
@succboah2000 Жыл бұрын
@@Gemnist98 What I love about Superman is that Superman didn’t see himself as a deity or god. He saw himself as a man with too much power and choose humanity over absolutely power. He’s one of the most humbled superhero/character in fiction
@ccelite3782 Жыл бұрын
Let's not forget this is the same guy who lost his powers in the comics and still was kicking ass
@BlankestKnight Жыл бұрын
@@succboah2000 That's the best part about Superman that most writers don't seem to get. Superman doesn't want to be a God. He's a country boy raised on good traditional values. He didn't want to be different or an alien. He would be content just being Clark Kent. However, because he has this power, the morals instilled on him from the Kent's along with Jor-El's belief that having these abilities on Earth by default makes him a savior, pushed him to use his powers for the benefit of Earth and the universe. Anyone else would have abused such power but not Clark Kent. His strength comes from his heart and will to never bend knowing what he's capable of if he ever did.
@SpeezyOTB Жыл бұрын
They need to make Superman‘s personality similar to a normal guy. He likes barbecue. He keeps up with basketball. He visits his parents. He makes corny jokes. They need to inject more personality into the character because what makes him so compelling is when he’s forced to really be the super part of himself you really don’t want to see that guy. Take notes from the DC animated universe.
@MysteriousTomJenkins Жыл бұрын
Yeah, some of my favorite moments from Superman related media is human moments. Stuff like at the end of Kingdom Come where Wonder Woman gives him glasses and he happily wears them as he has once again accepted himself as Clark Kent, stuff like Justice League Unlimited where he's trying to convince Wonder Woman and Batman to go out to dinner with him at a place where the shakes are so thick, you need to eat them with a spoon (Superman of all people is amazed by this) and while I haven't read these comics, people really loved seeing him as a father and seeing his and Batman's son be friends. You can very easily make 'human' Superman work, but people want to stroke their ego with 'symbolism' and 'deeper meanings'. Ironically though, they miss the deeper meaning behind Superman, for all his powers, he's still no more of a god than you or me and he knows it and happily accepts it, using his powers to do as much good as he can ranging from saving the world to talking people out of suicide to even rescuing a kitten from a tree. None of that is beneath him, he has the power to help, so he's going to help.
@SpeezyOTB Жыл бұрын
@@MysteriousTomJenkins very well put. Honestly I don’t wanna be that guy but that’s kind of what Marvel does with their characters. Sure they get killed for being too comedic but it’s the funny moments in the humanizing stuff they do with characters like thor that make the characters work. You would think they would learn how to approach Superman based off of the Spider-Man movies even the ones from the early 2000s because they’re both guys that work at a newspaper, they have dual identities and so forth The only difference is we relate to Peter. Even bad man is suffering from this weird way DC characterizes, Christian bells Batman well at least his Bruce Wayne had some personality but his more recent incarnations are just angry brooding rich guys. It’s almost as if some of these DC characters are getting stuck in time.
@emilymcplugger Жыл бұрын
@Speezy ON The Beat DC never understand it’s never about Supes …it’s about Clark. Reeves played Clark as goofy, but the real Clark is who Superman was. Dean Cain’s Clark was the person, Superman was the identity. You get this and you understand how to do a great Superman film. But also putting a Randian dildo like Zach Snyder in charge of the most altruistic hero ever is also not a good fit n’all.
@stellviahohenheim Жыл бұрын
@@SpeezyOTB it's funny how Stan Lee rips off a lot of DC characters but made them better by just injecting a few personality to them lol
@heavyjukebox6483 Жыл бұрын
@@stellviahohenheim I can totally see a few parallels between Superman and Spider-Man besides their iconic movies.
@Real_Genji Жыл бұрын
The fact that Lex Luthor could not Fathom that Superman is Clark Kent, a down to earth normal guy should be telling. Superman at his core is a regular guy with a massive heart. It's how he and batman can be best friends
@BananaMana69 Жыл бұрын
Jesus was also just a regular guy with a massive heart...
@wholethedogsout880 Жыл бұрын
lex luthor and zach snyder are the same person
@wholethedogsout880 Жыл бұрын
@@BananaMana69 not really, he was their messiah and their god
@dawsontankersley4286 Жыл бұрын
@@wholethedogsout880 that's true. but what silo said is also true
@thepubknight6144 Жыл бұрын
@@wholethedogsout880 Superman was based on Moses not Jesus Not only was Snyder wrong in making him Christ like (ironically him being Jewish himself) The creators of Superman Joe and Jim who were Jewish men said many times Clark was based on Moses Moses was adopted and sent in a river in a baby carriage (like Clark in his ship) and was found by a couple, the only difference is Moses was adopted by a rich family , Clark was a small town working class married couple Now there's a Clark who was adopted by a rich family named Ultraman some versions he was adopted by the Luthors and became a dictator
@TheBlarggle Жыл бұрын
Ironically, reimagining Superman from a pseudo-socialist, looking out for those weaker than him, into an "All American, honorary police man" is more accurate to how Jesus is portrayed in America.
@wonderoushistoryofclassicf9193 9 ай бұрын
I would replace pseudo socialist with American-Centric Utopianism.
@itntamir 7 ай бұрын
That's kind of what he is in Superman and the Mole Men. He even takes the guns away from the racist hicks in the small town. Superman and the Mole Men is Seigel and Shuster's character pretty much as they wrote him.
@lukeyznaga7627 3 ай бұрын
If you read the book "Jesus and John Wayne", how evangelicals have changed teh bible Jesus to a White political power movement, you would understand.
@donaldhysa4836 13 күн бұрын
@@itntamir He also smashes commies. Not very socialist of him. Most of the time he is very cool with cops but he is never cool with commies
@mattevans4377 Жыл бұрын
Personally, what I find interesting about Superman, is that he has all this power and fame, and yet he doesn't use it. Superman can work in a darker world, as long as he is the light in a world of darkness.
@420Yako Жыл бұрын
Like Jesus
@323starlight Жыл бұрын
Which is why Zack Snyder’s Superman doesn’t work. He isn’t a light. He’s just miserable.
@marin4767 Жыл бұрын
@@420Yako literally
@marin4767 Жыл бұрын
@@323starlight Superman represents hope not light. Not everyone will accept him for who he is some would see him as threat, therefore he can’t be light. But he can be hope for those who find themselves in their darkest moments. Siegel and Shuster portray Superman protecting the weak and those who were mistreated. He was a hero the world needed as World War II began in Europe.
@dustinmosley5965 Жыл бұрын
like Jesus
@nickeel8401 Жыл бұрын
What makes Superman so beloved and good is that at his core, he isn’t above us mere mortals. He’s “just a guy from a small town trying to do the right thing “
@shanekeenaNYC Жыл бұрын
Like, it would be interesting to explore his college days. Maybe his post-college bachelor days. I would love to see Clark Kent without the suit and solitude. How does he navigate the small studio apartments and hectic chaos of Metropolis? How does he prevent crimes more on the DL? I would love to see more street-level stuff.
@stevenscott2136 Жыл бұрын
Like Captain America: "I'm just a kid from Brooklyn". They're the same guy, except for whatever PTSD Steve carries from the war.
@anyway5692 Жыл бұрын
yeah there's an entire movie (superman vs the elite) dedicated to the fact that superman doesn't beleive that his powers give him the right to enact judgement on the villains he fights. In his eyes, being powerful doesn't put him above other people, if anything, it puts him to higher standards.
@jainamturakhia4688 Жыл бұрын
@@shanekeenaNYC that's the only thing that anyone ever explores tbh. Now that boy scout stories feel boring.
@xrstevenson Жыл бұрын
@@stevenscott2136 lol a completely missed opportunity to continue Captain America's PTSD arc from Avengers 2012. It was completely dropped entirely
@tobigrantlbart Жыл бұрын
You know I love this scene in the cartoons, where Clark takes J'onn (aka Martian Manhunter) home for christmas. And he acts so normal, like a normal human, and this isn't a facade he puts up. When asked about this side he just says:"That's why I like coming home for the holidays, I can just be myself." He isn't saying "someone else" he says himself. And later on when the Kents are like "Oh yea we wrapped his presents in lead foil so he couldn't see through", he just is like a child and is "You mean Santa did it" and Martha just goes "Oh sure honey." This scene is so great to me, it shows that Superman doesn't put on the Clark mask, Clark puts on the Superman mask. It humanizes him. And also the Kents haven't taken in Superman, because they had to, because they saw a message from Jor-El when the ship crashed saying: "This boy is the savior of humanity, raise him well", they just took him in, cared for him dearly and that's why he turned out this way. Not because of a predestined path he had to follow.
@tobigrantlbart Жыл бұрын
@Erik Kemeey I did not even mention Man of Steel lol? Why do you just assume I was talking about Man of Steel. I just bring up a cool scene from Justice League.
@tenkenroo Жыл бұрын
I love the scene where his parents are like “we had to wrap his presents in lead so he wouldn’t peak” and Clark says “you mean Santa wrapped them in lead”
@louism3643 Жыл бұрын
Tobi, I really liked the end part of your post. IMO, Clark just turned out this way because of hard working, kind, giving human parents. While some hero journeys have some sort of mysterious origin heroes who are destined to do something great....sometimes, depending on the producer/director/show/movie, Clark becomes a hero because he's an all around nice guy. I guess there is some freedom to change ideas depending on who is telling the story: Donner, Snyder...the Smallville writers...
@minestar2247 8 ай бұрын
I remember watching this episode a little while ago on tv, i liked it
@emperorbooglitch8540 7 ай бұрын
=)
@vrokyoto Жыл бұрын
On this matter, I love how Superman’s “bizarro” in tv, homelander, is LITTERALLY portrayed as Jesus, (more or less) and homelander is self aware to the fact that people see him as a god and a higher power. And it immediately goes to his head.
@jitian7353 Жыл бұрын
no not really, HE sees himself as a god, above everyone else. and hes not close to bizarro
@vrokyoto Жыл бұрын
@@jitian7353 people have always seen homelander as a savior ESPECIALLY in season 3
@tackyoptic Жыл бұрын
Well, to be fair, it's kinda hard to deny that homelander is somewhat potrayed as a critique of how superman is shown in the current mainstream. Clark was raised as Clark. Superman came later. But Homelander is always homelander. He has no reprieve or choice. He is aware that he is a caricature, that he has no real personality, but he can't do anything because it's all he knows.
@loturzelrestaurant Жыл бұрын
@@tackyoptic Superman was Once Class-Aware? Wow, i wonder if he would have liked Issue-listing and problem-adressing KZfaqrs like Cody Johnston and Second-Thought.
@goawaypleasethanks Жыл бұрын
I read this in Todd's voice.
@choreomaniac Жыл бұрын
Making Superman a Christ figure can work. Making a darker, grittier Superman who can get his hands dirty and is tortured by doubt, and pain can work. Doing both at the same time? Obviously cannot work.
@parkerboy795 Жыл бұрын
That's probably the best summation of what went wrong with Snyder's version.
@brightestlight9462 Жыл бұрын
superman isn't darker and grittier--there are other characters that do that lol
@KingZedusPrime2009TyrentKaiju Жыл бұрын
I'm not 100% sure they couldn't work together as Christ works as a character and as a real God and has both of those qualities, Christ is not a happy go lucky guy, there are plenty of times in the Bible where he is put through emense emotional pain, and although he may not doubt God because he is God, he certainly asked why he even had to die for us, he did question why he needed to go through his actions, but knew he needed to do them anyway even if he did not want to. Personally I don't think the Christ superman works because superman really is just a man, despite being a very powerful alien. He should relate to us in terms of our sin and flaws, and although christ does know and understand all of our sin, as he has to bear it on the cross, he himself has never sinned.
@jakubrejak1114 Жыл бұрын
@@KingZedusPrime2009TyrentKaiju I must interject here, as I find Jesus' sinlessness a bit bullshit
@EagleRiderStudios Жыл бұрын
I don’t think Snyder was making him a Christ figure. I think the end of MoS shows that. We may perceive him that way, but that is mistaken because he isn’t perfect
@carbodude5414 Жыл бұрын
Hiring a director who couldn't comprehend the idea that someone as powerful as Superman isn't capable of being a down-to-earth guy and shouldn't care about what "normal" people think about him was a mistake
@gunjantripathi9271 Жыл бұрын
absolutely
@3mbthelabel Жыл бұрын
Ah yes because Clark, a guy on a journey of self discovery choosing others before himself is definitely not "down to earth"
@CabezasDePescado Жыл бұрын
I dont see this in the Snyder movies at all
@gunjantripathi9271 Жыл бұрын
@@CabezasDePescado I don't see anything in Snyder movies cause they're so effing dark 🤣🤣🤣
@frecklenuckle4450 Жыл бұрын
it happens. Synder only makes one movie over and over again
@spaceghostcqc2137 Жыл бұрын
Can we just get ONE superman movie made by people who really understand the character? I don't want grimdark dragon ball knockoffs or corny attempts at shoehorning religious allegory. He's supposed to represent human potential when people are properly connected to community, family, and life. There can be realism and skepticism but the tone of the film should neither be messianic or cynical.
@kylestephens4133 Жыл бұрын
No. Everyone thinks they understand the character.
@morgant.dulaman8733 Жыл бұрын
Have you ever seen Superman vs the Elite? That's a pretty good one, and a healthy criticism to those who have an addiction to deconstructing traditional heroism. For comic references, it's an adaptation of "What's So Funny About Truth, Justice, and the American Way?"
@bearandthebull2372 Жыл бұрын
I think a good movie would be where it's essentially a buddy flick,but every once in awhile he stops a big bad,only to come back to the buddy portion because that's HIS character.
@Notarealchannelok Жыл бұрын
It would need to be a movie that explores his character and mythos. Rather than try to reinterpret the character. At this point they need to interpret him. Explore Superman's mythos as Clark. Pretty much how you would approach Spider-man. And his Superman and Clark lives collide in whatever villain plot ends up being.
@DynestiGTI Жыл бұрын
@@morgant.dulaman8733 everything is funny about Truth, Justice, and the "American way". This isn't the 70s, what does the American way even mean anymore? To just pretend as if everything's the same is to be living in a dreamworld, out of touch from reality.
@sarahquintas3285 Жыл бұрын
Hey. Jewish former comic book history major here. This is a great video. Another quite Jewish piece of Superman mythology is his name: Kal-El, which translates in Biblical Hebrew to “voice of God.” Granted, someone could also use that to hype up the Jesus connection. Another connection I’ve noticed is the way his cape is used and folded, which sometimes reminds me of the Tallit, the traditional prayer shawl
@homunculi0408 Жыл бұрын
Surprisingly, the CW show Superman and Lois actually does a great job of portraying Clark as human rather than an alien or a godly entity. He has his faults, he gets angry, sad, he spends time with his family, he has his ups and downs, and he strives to be better with each problem he faces.
@zzirfamo24 Жыл бұрын
One of the best shows out right now, and not only spends time with his family but he considered not stopping crimes because his sons!!
@lukekulak7165 Жыл бұрын
So does man of steel????
@kenjik9867 Жыл бұрын
@@lukekulak7165 did you even watch the video what the hell? man of steel portrayed him a Jesus like and that's just dumb
@lukekulak7165 Жыл бұрын
@@kenjik9867 well i watched the movie and aside from symbolism, clark is very much human
@homunculi0408 Жыл бұрын
@@lukekulak7165 As Clark Kent before becoming superman? Yeah sure, you could argue that the film showed a portion of his humanity. But as Superman, he was alien with god-like powers detached from human society.
@fuzzfac3942 Жыл бұрын
A superman movie set in the 40s how the character was originally written would be super interesting
@Grizabeebles Жыл бұрын
It would definitely be interesting, but I think it would have to take the form of "what would happen if Superman went on strike?" Any movie set during WW2 has to answer the question why Superman isn't just walking into Hitler's bunker and snapping necks or giving kryptonian weapons to the allies. Especially once he starts hearing people dying in gas chambers from thousands of miles away. Or how the American military and general public would react to Superman saving Japanese civilians from Curtis LeMay's firebombing campaign.
@fuzzfac3942 Жыл бұрын
@@Grizabeebles i mean i feel like superman would have to have a separate story during ww2 Like if the axis power was able to capture superman with Kryptonite before he knew and now he is being Tortured by the Nazis by having to hear all the pain he is making people go through and they try to brainwash him into Following hitler
@Ganmorg Жыл бұрын
Superman Smashes the Klan is so good. I like how it's appropriate for kids but doesn't really pull many punches about its subject matter, while also providing a super interesting story specific to Clark
@Mechjeb661 Жыл бұрын
Why not today and bring back "TRUTH, JUSTICE, and the AMERICAN WAY"?
@cosmosyn2514 Жыл бұрын
@@Grizabeebles i’m not really into comic books & superheroes i just like video essays, but i’ve heard superman hasn’t always had some of his powers? so it’s possible that the film could follow suit with the times before he had powers, such as super hearing
@am_i_blue Жыл бұрын
Superman is what people call him. Clark Kent is who he is and is proud to be. He's a awkward farmboy who just happens to have superpowers because of his origins. He just wants to have a simple life like many of us,wants to spend time with his family and have a job to provide for them. He helps people not because of some higher purpose,he does it because every life matters to him. Saving a girl from suicide is as heroic to him as saving the world from a big monster.
@arbitarious Жыл бұрын
That's why I love his character when he's a person who acts out of love. He cares about people and he tries desperately to help as many people as possible. Stories like that are important to real life issues where people feel broken and upset. Lost or suicidal. We may not have a superman but those stories can inspire all of us to be kinder to others and help each other.
@am_i_blue Жыл бұрын
@@arbitarious Totally agree with you. And i wish movies do justice to his character rather than just show him as the boring invulnerable heavy hitting alien when he is the most vulnerable one from inside.
@leviathanproductions5691 7 ай бұрын
Clark calls himself Clark. The world calls him Superman. Bruce Wayne calls himself Batman. During the day, the world calls him Bruce. That is what makes them friends.
@thepubknight6144 7 ай бұрын
@@leviathanproductions5691 Yup and notice both call each other by their first names Clark calls him Bruce to humanize him more ironically
@sunflow57 Жыл бұрын
The appeal of Superman is despite having godly power he's just a regular dude at heart who likes to help others. He was taken in, raised with affection and now seeks to use what he's learnt from his parents.
@happyninja42 Жыл бұрын
I always thought that Kal-el making a conscious choice to destroy the entire ship of pre-natal Kryptonians was WAY more damning of an action, compared to a single neck snap. He literally commits genocide when he says "They had their chance!" and then blows up the cradle ship. After that, him snapping a single neck seemed fairly trivial to me.
@brianparker5592 Жыл бұрын
Good point
@ember-evergarden Жыл бұрын
that's what a dumb anti-abortion woke person would say. they weren't alive
@isuckatusernames4297 Жыл бұрын
also pretty funny considering alot of dump ppl think the bible is pro life.
@3mbthelabel Жыл бұрын
He snapped Zod's neck because Zod explicitly told Clark he wouldn't stop until humanity is dead, and he was just about to kill an innocent family.
@happyninja42 Жыл бұрын
@@3mbthelabel ....yes...I'm well aware of that....why did you feel the need to simply tell me the series of events that happened, as if I haven't seen the film or something? I never claimed he didn't do it. Seriously wtf are you even on about with this comment? Are you not aware of the definition of the word trivial? Do you think it means something else?
@ignacioruiz-retegui6196 Жыл бұрын
Ever since I learned that Superman's power is genetic (all kryptonians have them) I never took the "godly" thing seriously, it was just a story about how humble origins can make someone powerful good. And knowing someone powerful out there can go to save you out of goodness is what makes him a symbol of hope for me.
@fortimusprime Жыл бұрын
And to me it gives hope that even with great power, there are people who use that power for good.
@apimpnamedslickback5936 Жыл бұрын
Supes is different from other kryptonians too tho
@theendersmirk5851 Жыл бұрын
@@apimpnamedslickback5936 In that he, unlike most of the rest of the survivors, wasn't one of Zod's cronies? Yes, he is. The only other ways he is differentiated was in Snyder's version, which was honestly a very confused and stupid detail, so I don't really get it.
@apimpnamedslickback5936 Жыл бұрын
@@theendersmirk5851 nah bruh, not even about that. Supes is like the protagonist of DC in a way😂. That mofo has plot manipulation powers. I remember there was this story I read where the history of the earth got erased all the way back to caveman by aliens💀 but the idea of Superman is tied to hope so the second the cavemen hoped they just drew Superman on a. Cave wall and he came back to existence..... Then he looks at the aliens and they develop compassion. Webcamparrot has a couple vids on this but supes is just built diff
@theendersmirk5851 Жыл бұрын
@@apimpnamedslickback5936... I don't know which drug it was, but someone was definitely on at least one while writing that story, I can tell that much. Not that that means it's bad, but... yeah.
@CreateAmazment Жыл бұрын
As many others have pointed out before, imo, Superman is at his best when he's human. When the story plays into his emotions and not into his "I'm literally a god" side of him, that's when we get the truly fantastic and heartfelt stories
@elijahchaney7715 Жыл бұрын
I really think that if they took the “foreigner outcast that despite all the hate and cynicism he faces still chooses to believe in good and humanity” angle that the creators of this character took, they would be way more successful with connecting to audiences.
@minestar2247 8 ай бұрын
If the dceu focused on that part more, it would be cool
@Windona Жыл бұрын
Honestly diaspora/immigrant Superman is my fav interpretation. Jesus allegories tend to be so surface level and very painted on, and end up doing a disservice. I also like the Moses allegory, but even then part of it is that Moses leads his people but dies before he gets them to the promised land. Clark as Diaspora is something I adore. It's the feeling of wanting to learn about and connect to a heritage that's gone, but being so shaped by the new world he grew up in he wouldn't fit in the old one even if he could magically get it back anyway. Trying to both fit in, but also help and be true to your heritage and identity. The fact Superman has two names- Clark Kent and Kal-El- that are both his name but have very different contexts and implications is so interesting and impactful. It's like how many immigrants to the US took anglicized names to fit in.
@oldmanmillennial1980 Жыл бұрын
I'm not trying to defend it, but you just described Jesus, Mary and Josef fleeing Egypt and a teenage Jesus running away to the church to try and find his identity. Even the struggle to try and fit in both worlds is parallel to the last temptation and wandering 40 days in the dessert. Hey! come to think! 40 days in the dessert is so a parallel for thr fortress of solitude!
@Telorchid Жыл бұрын
Well said. Certainly Christ-typology can be surface level, although I wonder if all these superheroes with death & resurrection story beats (cf. MCU Iron Man, Cap, Thor, Shang Chi) owe more to Campbell loving screenwriters than anything else.
@hyperion3145 Жыл бұрын
@@marvinmallette6795 Yeah... The pop culture Jesus forgets that he was an actual human being first and there does seem to be evidence that he historically might not have even claimed he was the Messiah. The dude gets angry, he cracks some jokes, he even gets afraid at his crucifixion and the book explicitly states that he looked like the average person (also, the virgin birth was a mistranslation, he was a normal person). A lot of that is shoved aside because the miracles are often the only parts people remember from his journeys. This is what really breaks the Jesus allegories, it's like people are basing them off memory rather than the actual figure.
@notapplicable6985 Жыл бұрын
@@oldmanmillennial1980 I think that is because both Jesus and Superman are very basic archetypes. Like the 'hero myth' if you boil everything down to minutia, it looks the same.
@youngblackmind4281 Жыл бұрын
I've been a. Christian and a Comic fan my whole life. I always thought it was dumb to compare Jesus to Superman and vise versa, however I never thought why. But the fact you had brought the story of Moses up and had explained the parallels is the exact reason I needed to explain why Supes isn't Jesus. Instead he's a man with a godly gift who does good because he wants to and has the ability to, not because it's his destiny, it is his choice to be the hero that had the ability to change the world. I love you bro. This is my first video and I don't need to watch another to sub and like.
@akira17_samurai Жыл бұрын
He is a mix of both but they forget one thing they became more human
@SlashCraftJack Жыл бұрын
Exactly - There's a reason why he's referred to as "Thee Big Blue Boy Scout" in certain media
@lukekulak7165 Жыл бұрын
I cannot see why any of that makes it dumb. Instead, it makes it make more sense to me.
@HakeemTheDream616 Жыл бұрын
They're both made up, and fake....
@shahross8366 Жыл бұрын
You literally just described Xhrist, but okay.
@normal6483 Жыл бұрын
Kal-El is literally Hebrew. It means "voice of god" and looks like "קול-אל" (Notably, it's the Yiddish pronunciation, which matches Siegel and Schuster's Ashkenazi upbringings.) Superman isn't just Hebrew on a thematic level, his Jewishness is written into his very identity.
@exquisitecorpse4917 Жыл бұрын
Jesus and Superman: Two Jews coopted by Christianity =P
@normal6483 Жыл бұрын
@@exquisitecorpse4917 Personally, I'm fine letting the Christians have Jesus. The Jews aren't particularly attached to him. But they can pry Superman from my cold, dead hands.
@chocolateangel3176 Жыл бұрын
@@exquisitecorpse4917 co-opted? The first Christians were Jews.
@blackleague212 Жыл бұрын
@@normal6483 so tell the video creator to stop making clickbait titles that are based on a lie. The cartoon people at " Action comics" in 1930s surely did make superman to be like jesus, so tell the video creator to stop deleting comments when people call him out on his lies from in this video.
@normal6483 Жыл бұрын
@@blackleague212 Maybe I'm the first Jew you've ever talked to, but Jews don't believe in Jesus.
@Marnie_C Жыл бұрын
Superman is the story of a man who has the power to make a change. Everyone has that moment where they wish they could help people or solve a problem but they physically can't. Superman has that desire, but he also has the ability to do so. He can fly down to a spilling oil rig to stop the pollution, he is powerful enough to stop a speeding car that is heading for a child, he is fast enough to save everyone in a natural disaster. Superman is meant to be an everyday man who is frustrated with the world and he has the power to do something. He understands what it means to be human, he grew up on Earth and knows the issues people face. He isn't doing what he does because humanity is beneath him or because he is a god, he does it because he wants to. He wants to do better.
@zinkrichardson1949 Жыл бұрын
I got to know Superman during the late 80s when John Byrne took over as writer/artist and rebooted him. During that time I saw him as the immigrant who felt he was more human than alien, who wanted Lois to love Clark not Superman, and where he was a boy-scout but flawed. He even killed (for justifiable reasons) and paid for that action. He was an inspiration, but as a man blessed with ultimate power who carried it out like a servant of the people. He was one of us. More human than messiah. The moment he died and came back, everything changed. His powers became over the top, his mission was more divine, he was a yes-man to authority (even to Lex-flipping-Luthor as President) and his TV and movie adaptions seemed to take that idea and kick it up to 11 all for profit. I know I'm letting my boomer-ness show, but I must say, I miss the immigrant who still thought he was human.
@dikiiieykick1734 Жыл бұрын
I don't know why u think Snyder superman sees himself as a god
@zinkrichardson1949 Жыл бұрын
@@dikiiieykick1734 Never implied in anyway that he "sees himself as a god". Only that he is depicted by current creators as a more divine being who can do anything. He was briefly brought back to basics when he had a family. But it ended too soon when they aged his son to a teenager.
@Jeicemeiser Жыл бұрын
@@zinkrichardson1949 I LOVED dad Superman, and I get mad whenever I think about how they massacred my boy Jon. Sacrificed all his personal development and his super interesting and amusing and touching friendship with Damian for….nothing.
@michealmahmoud6391 Жыл бұрын
I feel like John Byrne Superman was basically an over handed American Reaganism(especially coming next to Frank Miller DKR take of Superman). Superman feeling he was more human/American than Kryptonian, felt like saying that you’re roots (African, Jewish, Hispanic born immigrant ) doesn’t matter, you’re an American now and are supposed to represent American values. Superman Smashes the Klan and Birthright does that better
@robertoj.9509 Жыл бұрын
@@zinkrichardson1949 I don't know what Superman you read, but in old comics Superman was way more of a God than he is today. His personality has also evolved to be more relatable. People complaining about Superman is because they didn't read it, or because they read and don't understand. As I always said, it will always scape my mind why people relates more to characters like Batman, and not with Superman. I relate way more to Superman in every possible way, even when I'm flawed, I feel more empathy towards Superman than any other character. He might be alien, but he's the most human of the superheroes.
@GambeTama Жыл бұрын
Writing for Superman is always a fascinating thing to analyze, because I genuinely think you can gauge how a person feels about superheroes or even people as a whole by how they view the big blue boyscout. He has a past, he has a family - an adoptive one at that - who raised him to be a nice, humble, loving farm boy. He married a reporter explicitly because he admired her determination and ethics, practically seeing her as a role model herself. And when his son was taken by a monster he could not reason with, he was willing - if only for a moment - to do something he would regret to see his son returned safely. Clark Kent isn’t a god or an abhuman, but the purest form of a human being with the unlimited potential to help or harm others. So when you have writers who choose to emphasize his grandiosity over his humanity, it makes you wonder what truly is going through their minds about the world and others, when the best way to represent the peak of what it means to be human, by making him as inhuman as you can get, by leaning into the supreme and the divine.
@dangelo1921 Жыл бұрын
“The purest form of a human” that sounds like Jesus😂
@dr.kekyll2244 Жыл бұрын
your analysis of others assumes that they, like you, see Clark as the purest form of human. but if you start with a different reading, you're not necessarily expressing your views on humans with "god among men" takes. at least not through Clark/Superman...
@GambeTama Жыл бұрын
@@dr.kekyll2244 Not necessarily. I get where you're coming from, but my point was that there are people who can only see Superman through the "Kill Bill perspective," and truly think that this is the most sensible take on the character. I recall one comic commentator who put it better, saying [paraphrasing] "these folk are of the belief that people in general are selfish and evil. That once they get even a touch of power, they will use it for as selfish a goal as they can, and would never commit to anything resembling altruism, because that would be ridiculous." I find people who are this cynical and espouse it through their work to be... interesting to examine, to put it best. Again, though, I do understand that there are people that can look at Superman as a normal guy and still think that of him in a more dangerous sense. I just choose to look at this discussion from the more binary format it traditionally has - which kind of just breaks down to "do you think the idea of a superhero is fun or insultingly stupid?" Geoff Johns vs Garth Ennis, and all that.
@dumisa7 11 ай бұрын
Superman isn't Jesus; Superman is The Golem.
@boredhuman6512 Жыл бұрын
I'm just gonna put it plainly that I like it when superman is like... a dude. Don't compare him to god. Or jesus. Or some holy figure. He is a kid born on earth that found out he is something more but instead of using his power for evil or his own benefit he simply wants to do good. He is above all not benevolent, not preachy he is just a kind dude that wants to help. My image of a superman is someone who isn't just concerned with doing miracle acts inspiring hope or punching out of the pure evil villain but rather someone who'd see you almost fall of the stairs and break your arm, catch you, give you a goofy smile and ask if you're fine and fly off. The whole thing about him for me is not that because of his whole godly power he needs to step up and inspire humanity but rather despite being so big and godly he can still relate to just being a human and help out those in need.
@dustinmosley5965 Жыл бұрын
Hes not just a dude... he can sneeze and destroy galaxies. He's turned back time, he's resurrected, his entire archetype is based off of Jesus.
@taiwothomas5759 Жыл бұрын
Okay I’m gonna say it…Superman and Lois had the best interpretation of Superman/Clark Kent
@claytonbigsby381 Жыл бұрын
Dude You knocked it out of the park with your view of Superman. Deep down he really is just a good guy.
@sparkylynx8723 Жыл бұрын
Superman isnt benevolent? Yes Clark Kent is a human, but I find it weird to just pretend inspiring hope isn't a core part of his character. I'm fairly sure most incarnations of superman recognize and respect the importance he has as a symbol. Is not helping others do good doing good?
@sushitrash7173 Жыл бұрын
@@taiwothomas5759 they really nail the Clark Kent side of him
@Mitcheck315 Жыл бұрын
Important note, Superman is one of a bunch of superheroes that is heavily influenced in his role by the Jewish Golem. An indomitable force standing for truth that intrinsically stands in support of the oppressed
@FunkyJabroni Жыл бұрын
You must be a blast at dinner parties.
@izzylovejoy3587 Жыл бұрын
while thats true for some other characters captain America especially, superman draws much more from the character of Moses especially in his origin
@Mitcheck315 Жыл бұрын
@@FunkyJabroni who the fuck has dinner parties in the year 2022
@jjju3 Жыл бұрын
@@FunkyJabroni dude if someone told me this at a dinner party id be absolutely delighted what are you saying
@blurryperson2685 Жыл бұрын
@@FunkyJabroni He probably is. You probably don't get invited much with the personality of a door knob.
@Free_Palestine_419 Жыл бұрын
Superman: Is a poor farmer who fights for the poor and beats up rich scumbags like Lex Luthor. Batman: Is a rich billionaire who lives in a mansion, has a butler, drinks champagne, eats lobsters, bangs supermodels like Scarlett Johansson, and beats up mostly poor people. Superman was the first and is still the greatest superhero of all time and is the ultimate representation of hope and humanity. An alien with Godlike powers who is more human than any of us.
@k.g.7591 Жыл бұрын
I can’t think of anything that would be more helpful to Superman than to see him as more human, more self-conscious, maybe more of sense of humor to make him down to earth. Too many people see Him as Superman disguised as Clark Kent’s but it really should be an earth raised Clark Kent’s wearing a Superman uniform.
@jhon4379 Жыл бұрын
As someone who didnt like the character as a child, but I recently learned so much about him from people who loves the character, and for them, Superman is the representation of everything that I love about superheroes, a person who tries to do good with what he has, who prefers hope rather then despair
@MsDiving1 Жыл бұрын
He’s a humanist and an optimist at his core, that’s who he is. That’s why it gets so irritating when people act like he should have to earn it. That is not how personalities work.
@tabaributler2225 Жыл бұрын
@@MsDiving1 wait so they think he should earn his personality? Like learn how to be optimistic and humble?
@eduardopantoja9115 Жыл бұрын
@@tabaributler2225 I thought it was more that he has powers that he didn't earned but I guess that's more why goku fans hate superman
@wholethedogsout880 Жыл бұрын
@@eduardopantoja9115 his race is kryptonian. every kryptonian has those powers. not like he had a choice
@abelmoreno4836 Жыл бұрын
Superman & Lois is the best characterization of Superman we’ve had in decades. Superman is literally just some guy with a family that was given powers. He does his best. He has his failures but he has his successes. He’s just some guy trying to do the right thing. I hate how underrated the show is.
@CorderoStephens Жыл бұрын
Facts!
@One21Jiggawatts Жыл бұрын
I love the depiction of superman and his family. The main season arcs such as the cults and doppelgängers are a bit crap though and hold it back. It’s at its best when focused on their daily lives.
@kewinabea5439 Жыл бұрын
No its not lol That's your opinion
@Pondy33 Жыл бұрын
I really love how is portrayed in the show. Besides his hipster wardrobe haha
@rianmacdonald9454 Жыл бұрын
hit the nail on the head there - just a kind guy trying to do the right thing. Humans do make it very hard to be good though.
@NotreDameSentiento Жыл бұрын
Great video, but my only gripe is with the Christ-figure not being inherently and explicitly anti-establishment and anti-authoritarian is a bit low resolution. There’s a veritable holy ghost of literature on liberation theology, a sect of theology that focuses on Jesus as an incredibly focused figure for liberation, the proletariat, and raising power to the masses. It really spins a whole new world on the norm that modern organized churches and the machined papacy has about christ being a symbol for the status quo Still, cool video Pillar. Keep it up
@BurningOrchid9888 10 ай бұрын
Makes me excited that James Gunn has cast a David Corenswet (a Jewish actor) to play Superman! He does a lot of research for the characters and he’s a big fan of Superman so I have a feeling Superman: Legacy will lean more into the Moses aspect or at least remain true to the original character in some regard
@planguy9575 Жыл бұрын
The biggest fantasy aspect of Superman is that he has so much power but is a humble, nice person. People ruin that by either making him Jesus or creating evil versions of him.
@haroldbrown893 Жыл бұрын
He model after Jesus
@planguy9575 Жыл бұрын
@@haroldbrown893 I think he was modeled after the golem.
@knightgallade8431 Жыл бұрын
@@haroldbrown893 the creators of Superman were Jewish
@DarthWall275 Жыл бұрын
I mean to be fair, Jesus fits the description you gave Superman perfectly.
@wholethedogsout880 Жыл бұрын
@@DarthWall275 their description was very generic so no it doesnt fit specifically jesus
@lucaskennington9101 Жыл бұрын
A Reddit comment I saw today said the perfect Superman adaptation would be like Paddington with superpowers. He doesn't have much of a character arc himself, but makes the lives of those around him better.
@thegneech Жыл бұрын
I'd never heard of "supersessionism" before. Thanks for teaching me a new thing!
@Adamax93 9 ай бұрын
Alan Moore is one of the only people who I trusted to write Superman. Because he understood Clark Kent.
@lolailo2199 Жыл бұрын
We really need a superman that can inspire hope and optimism now more then ever.
@rianmacdonald9454 Жыл бұрын
humanity as a whole doesn't deserve it
@Mandrakk7 Жыл бұрын
Watch MOS, BVS and ZSJL, Superman saves the world and all of existence 3 times even though he owed them nothing and treated him as an outcast🙂🙂
@lavelllucas Жыл бұрын
Thats the point of the vid. We have Jesus
@jaredsession0507 Жыл бұрын
We had that version of Superman coming , but the fans complained about how dark and realistic it was when in reality the movie was ahead of it’s time. Now y’all getting tired of all the jokes in marvel movies but when you had the chance to enjoy a movie universe that had a different theme, the critics and fans destroyed it
@1eyeddevil929 Жыл бұрын
Ultraman counts. The Silver Giant from The Land of Light
@medi0cre_pr0ducti0ns6 Жыл бұрын
I'm so tired of people comparing Superman to Jesus, and writers paralleling him to Jesus. I think it strips away from his character.
@electricfeverx976 Жыл бұрын
Worse is how kind hearted, non-Jesus Superman had worked recently with his latest live-action show. DC or the writers need to stop seeing him as a god, and just see him as the man he is, Clark Kent, a farm boy from Kansas with a heart of gold.
@axschia Жыл бұрын
@@electricfeverx976 in young justice that’s something I like because before I watched it Jesus figure Superman was all I had as reference and I literally hated him so much 😭 now I’ve watched this show and though not perfect their portrayal of Superman in the show is so much more likable my goodness
@Rev4mpz Жыл бұрын
Paralleling him to Jesus is actually really cool biblical allusion (imo), because I believe like Jesus Superman is just a man with powers who wants to help people but is worshipped as a God. And ultimately both had to sacrifice a lot and are still very human characters. They are both people who share a lot of similarities, but ofc they are still their own person, respectively.
@ThunderCleez66 Жыл бұрын
Superman is much more than smiling and rescuing cats from trees, You know how the slogan "Truth, Justice and the American Way" changed? So did the character.
@jameswatson5807 Жыл бұрын
Hhahaha this must be a new thing because I have never thought that. I just don't see it.
@goatsfluff Жыл бұрын
I like the Justice League version of Superman. It's only very late in the show that we get to see a glimpse of his reality through Lex Luthor's reactions to suddenly 'becoming Superman'. He sees 'everything'. He has a buttload of power. Suddenly he can do pretty much anything. Superman is not a boy scout. He is kind of an idiot and oblivious sometimes. But he knows the destruction he could cause. He's just a person, but he has great power, and with them come responsibility. He may not be as relatable as Batman to normal people, perhaps, but he's very much a source of inspiration.
@jaytalks8091 Жыл бұрын
You've legitimately given me things to think about, which is getting rarer with anything-including KZfaq videos. I think at the end of the day, Superman as Jesus is going to have far broader appeal than Superman as Moses, even if the latter is closer to the character's conception. You're quite right, I think, that you get more mileage with Superman as Moses than you do as Jesus, but the Jesus allegory can work well if done correctly. I fully agree Snyder didn't do that.
@wholethedogsout880 Жыл бұрын
his creators were jewish
@kRzlamchop Жыл бұрын
I’ve never looked at Superman and thought he was Jesus in any movie. He’s the hero we all want to be, but not the hero that DC knows how to portray.
@DynestiGTI Жыл бұрын
"Maybe he's not some devil or Jesus character, maybe he's just a guy trying to do the right thing" - Batman v Superman (2016)
@ilewdlolis939 Жыл бұрын
i hate that media seems to be obsesed with portraiying superman as either a freaking jesus figure or a compleate edgelord
@DynestiGTI Жыл бұрын
Depressed = edgelord?
@theanonymous.5940 Жыл бұрын
@@DynestiGTI no. But alot of people interpret it that way for some reason.... (but sometimes characters do act like edgelords)
@surrotten3354 Жыл бұрын
Superman literally is a Jesus figure☠☠ Debate Me
@osvaldorubalcava9721 Жыл бұрын
Superman slams Jesus low diff
@TheSeptacle Жыл бұрын
For what it’s worth, I really loved Snyder‘s interpretation of superman. It’s not the one definitive interpretation, but I thought it was really cool and profound. I might be biased, because I’m a Christian, but I’m OK with that. 😆
@PillarofGarbage Жыл бұрын
Fair enough!
@yahtoray3 Жыл бұрын
The creator made Superman a savior based on certain religious aspects. Kal El is Hebrew for "Voice of God." The creator was Jewish. When making this critique, we can't dismiss the creator's intentions. Those who have issues with other people's characters should start making their own.
@EnderGraff1 10 ай бұрын
Yeah I came here to say - he isn’t Christ he’s Super Moses.
@Cklert 9 ай бұрын
@@abby5533 Messiah and Christ are the same title though. They both mean 'Annointed one.'
@modelmajorpita 7 ай бұрын
@@Cklert No, the Messiah is someone who creates a Messianic age of peace. Jesus Christ did not do that. He is a failed or false messiah, and worship of him is idolatry.
@jamiekelley5856 Жыл бұрын
"A messy jumble of references" is probably the best description of Snyder's Superman that I've ever seen. I completely agree, btw; they need to stop with the Jesus imagery. One thing I will note, however, is that the "Death of Superman" story wasn't set up as inspired by Donner's Christ allegory - in fact, it subverts it. After Superman dies, worshippers show up at his memorial, and when the 4 Supermen arrive, the Super-cult splits. Once Superman himself comes back, he finds this group and basically chases them off, telling them his not their messiah and that they have to think for themselves. In fact, the Rebirth era of Superman that you read is, in spirit, a continuation of the Triangle Era of comics that the Death and Return of Superman is the apex of.
@jamiekelley5856 Жыл бұрын
@Erik Kemeey Is this a serious question? They're both good, but their personalities are different. And Superman wasn't "sent to Earth to save it" - he was sent to Earth by his parents to save HIM. It's Clark's choice and the duty he feels from his powers that makes him a hero, not a pre-destined idea. Grafting Jesus imagery onto Superman does neither any favors. It's a square peg and a round hole.
@jamiekelley5856 Жыл бұрын
@Erik Kemeey On the surface, sure - but the stronger messages of Jor-El's talk about him being "the light to show the way" and "an ideal to strive towards"; before revealing himself to Zod and the world, he's shown alongside the image of Jesus and in about the same pose to emphasize the comparison; when Superman leaves Zod's ship to save Lois, the pose is Jesus on the cross. Man of Steel is overloaded with Jesus imagery.
@jamiekelley5856 Жыл бұрын
@Erik Kemeey Hologram or no, those are still Jor-El's words in the film. Cinematically, they count as what Jor-El said. And Donner's rendition, while a better use of such imagery, is also at fault; in fact, I'd go so far as to say that Donner's version is the reason why so many other iterations do this - much to the detriment of the character. He's become far too passive. And I like the oil rig scene - it's a shame we didn't get more moments like that. Ironically, he was more helpful before he became Superman.
@jamiekelley5856 Жыл бұрын
@Erik Kemeey See, the problem with Snyder is that folks have to list things and separate them from the emotional narrative to make them "technically" true. Yes, he did destroy the world engine (which I'm honestly not sure is a very Superman move, tbh) and was saving people for 2 years in BvS (this is definitely a Superman thing to do). But especially in the latter, it's depicted like a distant god with the weight of the world on his shoulders. Technically, he's helping people and that's good - but he's not only distant from the people he's saving, he's distant from the audience as we don't get much of his viewpoint *during* the saving; we're not "there with him" as he does it. Having both would better show the difference between how the world sees him and how he(/we) sees himself, and would make his saves more active, further breaking the Jesus comparisons. As it stands in the movie, they're compounded. As for when he surrenders himself: yes, that's true. But it's also his first public act as Superman (unless there was a drone we didn't see when he was flying the first time). What Superman needs, honestly, is something more more akin to his mindset in the Golden Age; who'd grab the corrupt by the scruff of the neck and wouldn't hesitate to jump into the fight. Now, that has it's own character downsides (and that's ok!), but it would honestly be a breath of fresh air compared to the usual cinematic take we've had since Donner of "turn the Donner take up to 11 and make it more serious". And I don't mean to just pick on Snyder since he isn't the only one who's done this; Singer did it, too, and other unmade Superman films would have, as well.
@theendersmirk5851 Жыл бұрын
@Erik Kemeey the fact he needed to be forced to be a hero is *why* the story doesn't work, not an antidote. There are character archetypes that the reluctant hero style of storytelling just doesn't work for, and neither Goku, as shown by Dragon Ball Evolutions, nor Superman, work within that style. They are flat characters due to being idealistic in mindset. They might have some growth, but it is gradual, and the primary growth around them is the growth they inspire in others through their deeds. There's a reason why the DCAU Death of Superman reference episode has J'onn J'onz note Superman as the one "who taught us all how to be heroes", since that is quite literally his impact on the world he is in, the role he plays. He can stumble in his early years, but his primary role in DC ecosystem is as the Paragon other heroes strive to live up to, in spite of his own personal dilemmas he hides behind the scenes as best he can.
@mr.manguy3692 Жыл бұрын
WB: we don't know how to make Superman relatable or relevant. Superman and Lois show: exists
@shmeebs387 Жыл бұрын
Right? In theory, Superman should be more relatable than both Batman and Wonder Woman. One is an antisocial traumatized 0.001%er who is also a ninja. Another is a bronze age demigod from a secret island of only women. The other is a kid from Kansas.
@filmgoblin5016 Жыл бұрын
Superman and Lois season 1 was good but season 2 was underwhelming.
@mr.manguy3692 Жыл бұрын
@@filmgoblin5016 i enjoyed season 2 but the main villain was kinda disappointing.
@BumperCarJoe 9 ай бұрын
I do agree with you point "one and done hero..." and "diminishing returns". I think once the writting reaches a certain arch, there is no story left to be told that is fit for the big screen. Perhaps its a problem with the studios rushing the story. But it doesnt change the similarity between Calel and the Prince of Peace
@noirhelios Жыл бұрын
The irony of writers viewing Superman equal to Jesus is one of many reasons why Lex Luther hates Superman so much
@MysteriousTomJenkins Жыл бұрын
Yeah, I think its honestly stupid to make Superman seem like a God or deity like figure because the thing I notice people tend to love about him is the MAN part of Superman, the fact that underneath all his godlike powers and responsibilities, he's still a person like you or me and he himself sees it that way. I also notice that a lot of popular stories featuring Superman (or a pastiche of him) show just why its a bad thing when Superman acts like a god. Red Son, Kingdom Come, Justice Lords, Injustice, even Squadron Supreme, once Superman decides he must take over the planet or have more power and authority than others, that's when things go wrong and interesting enough with these stories, Superman either willingly or unwillingly loses his link to mankind first which is what pushes him to this more darker path he takes in these stories. Essentially, once you take the man out of Superman, he stops being the symbol for Truth and Justice and ends up becoming a tyrant whether he realizes it or not. Some people may think Clark Kent is just a stupid disguise for Superman but in reality, Clark Kent is Superman's real self, Superman is the alter ego, Clark Kent is the person. While his clumsiness and awkwardness are more of an act, that is likely how he'd be if he didn't have super powers and even still, there is some truth to this act. Superman is merely Clark Kent's way of helping people, putting on a brave face and a hopeful smile to inspire people but inside he's just as fearful and nervous as any normal person would be. You can't take the man out of Superman, and we see why in countless stories because when its just Kal-El, he ends up either becoming just another alien tyrant trying to take over the world or he becomes someone who bit off WAAY too much more than he can chew and his machinations to improve things only make it worse. His human half, his true self, is very much important to his character as well as the bonds he shares with his colleagues and friends. Lets remember that while Superman is incredibly powerful, he still helped form the Justice League, because even HE can't do everything and defeat everyone by himself. You want to make Superman be more relevant? Then focus on the MAN part of him and you will. People would love to see his cute and fun relationship with Lois, hell isn't that Clark and Lois show really popular? People would also love to see the dorky farmboy who loves his pa and ma, who'd go out and play fetch with Krypto with a tree and people would definetly love the bromance he'd have with Bruce and the relationship he'd have with both Connor Kent and his own son, Johnathan Kent. Hell, as far as I recall, a lot of people actually loved seeing fat Thor in the MCU, seeing a god go through legit depression with clear physical effects. They gave a LITERAL god a human conflict, Clark isn't a god but an alien who gets super charged by the sun, it should be EVEN easier to give him human conflict people could relate to.
@bloody4558 Жыл бұрын
Not me, I hate Lois Lane, always had, I'm one of the few people who actually liked that New-52 had finally rid him of Lois Lane. Only for Rebirth to happen and bring that fallible human back into the scene. People defend the relationship saying that Lois Lane is what makes him humna, but that is utter bullshit. He has always been far more human than Lois. Lois did literally everything for a scoop, she'd treat anything and anyone including herself as a tool for success. Clark gained nothing from her, when it comes to being a humble human being. He got that from his parents and his experiences growing up.
@StageInTheSkyCreations Жыл бұрын
It's not so stupid when you want to diminish who Jesus was and what he did for humankind. When I saw the film, the comparisons to Jesus were obvious, but also, I thought that it could be taken as an underhanded critique of what society has become today. Nowadays, Jesus and Christianity isn't at the forefront of worship and morality the way it was 40-50 years ago. Now, people are indeed more likely to worship, favor, and put their trust in someone they do see as a God here on earth, like a politician, their favorite writer, or any number of fandoms out there, from Harry Potter to Star Wars. Some even go so far as to make themselves their own God, deciding what's right and wrong based on how they feel as individuals, instead of something like a document, or a book where such laws are declared.
@windandcloudshadow158 Жыл бұрын
@@bloody4558 Agreed about Lois but him being with Lois beats him being with Wonder Woman any day of the week it makes him feel more relatable more man the god but I was hoping in new 52 they where gonna introduce a new love interest someone human and not Lois.
@robertoj.9509 Жыл бұрын
Yeah but you got to exploit his powers, because we love the man not only for who he is, but because he's that way DESPITE the huge power he holds.
@rudycastillo4150 Жыл бұрын
Did you not watch Batman v Superman the ultimate edition cuts they left out most of the important Clark's scene where it made him relatable. Like PTSD from being the only to survive
@cui8789 Жыл бұрын
I personally think Snyder wasn't so much comparing Clark to Jesus but pointing out how he's viewed that way but that's my view. I do like Man of Steel but I do respect your opinion.
@ThunderCleez66 Жыл бұрын
Lex's son literally views Superman as the god that didn't help him so he seeks to punish him for it. Such a simple concept that was apparently too complicated for the general audience.
@silentghost751 Жыл бұрын
@@ThunderCleez66 because he isn't God
@Pikashades Жыл бұрын
Clark is not portrayed as Jesus or as God. The people in the movie are portrayed in seeing him as a Jesus character or as a god.
@MinesAGuinness Жыл бұрын
There is much to be said for this interpretation. I very much enjoyed the first pat of Man of Steel as Clark Kent struggles with the knowledge of who he is and what he could do with his abilities - and it would have been interesting to have seen a story where he overcomes his fears and, through his deeds, wins over the respect and friendship of people during the rest of the first film. Unfortunately, Snyder and Goyer - in trying to make that salient point which you bring up - I think went a little overboard in trying to quickly deconstruct that image, before really allowing it to settle in the mind of the audience. They made a film whereby Superman not only fears to intervene for the first act, but in the third act - having barely emerged as Superman and with scant few minutes devoted to establishing him in that benevolent role - behaves so recklessly that he actively contributes to the deaths of thousands of innocent people as collateral damage. Now, I imagine this would be a rather realistic consequence of superpowered beings battling each other (a la The Boys), but it's a bloody depressing opening tale to tell about Superman. However, I don't think it is a tale that should never have been told. Rather, it would make a good premise for a second film in a trilogy of a hero journey.
@dikiiieykick1734 Жыл бұрын
@@MinesAGuinness in the end he is accepted into humanity
@thewalrus45 Жыл бұрын
Yeah I don't really get why WB has a hard time with Superman. It's simple: He's a really good dude who was raised well by good parents and does good because he's a good dude.. also he happens to be an alien with superpowers. There's obviously a lot more to it but that's basically the core of Clark/Superman. It's not super complex nor should it be hard to adapt.
@thepubknight6144 7 ай бұрын
Lois and Clark gets it right so WB shows they understand Clark and his Superman mythos very well
@lalitthapa101 Жыл бұрын
Finished The Boys and I have to say (even though I know many have said it aswell) the show just makes me astronomically appreciate Superman.
@louism3643 Жыл бұрын
Homelander had a rough childhood...and then he meets his father. Clark had parents who loved him.
@VladyO Жыл бұрын
I actually love that this video actually goes into some of the 60's Silver Age stories, which are often ignored for modern era interpretations because readers may think Silver Age is full of too much weird stuff (which there admittedly is a lot of), but there's still a bunch of fantastic stories that greatly inform the character's overarching mythos and depth. Keep in mind that Silver Age Kryptonians have photographic memory, and Kal-El in that continuity was *three years old* when he left Krypton. He may love his foster family and accept his human identity as Clark Kent, but Kal-El has enough memories of Krypton *as it was exploding* to mourn the loss of his parents and his home.
@Tyler_W Жыл бұрын
I don't have a problem with the messianic imagery in and of itself, so long as it is within the proper context. It makes sense that the outside world would at least initially see him that way, because they don't understand him. What has to happen from there is that Clark needs to correct the error, whether explicitly or implicitly, and communicate that he's just a normal Midwestern farm boy who wants to help people in need and try to do the right thing, not some perfect, godlike being above the masses like he appears to those who don't know him or even hate him. This is why I think Lex projecting his problems with theodocy and his resentment towards the idea of a benevolent God in BvS makes total sense, not because Superman is literally God, but because Lex wrongly believes that Superman fancies himself a god and often projects onto Superman what he isn't and never claimed to be in the first place. Ironically, this humble humanity and service to others, even in the little acts of kindness, is actually what makes him Christlike, not in the way people typically think with his awesome displays of otherworldly power. True, trying to literally make him Jesus doesn't really work simply because that's not who he is (and if anything, he's more comparable to Moses), but when done right, Superman is actually very Christlike often in the same way the Bible calls regular people to be more like Christ. People make the mistake of thinking he's inspirational because "he's basically Jesus." No, the real reason that Superman is a hero is because he's just a regular dude who does the best he can to aspire to that highest ideal through love, humility, self-sacrifice, and service to his fellow man, and through that example, he shows that we can aspire to that heroic ideal too, because underneath the godlike superpowers, we're exactly the same in all of the ways that matter. Superman is inspirational because if he, a regular guy, can be heroic and do what's right, so can we.
@reneduranondating Жыл бұрын
This is the kind of content that makes KZfaq great. Thanks for diving deep 💪🏽
@Reverend_Salem Жыл бұрын
i want a superman movie where in Clark Kents house/apartment there is nothing a normal person would have, no step ladder, no razors, no first-aid kit, or if it has it its either suspiciously unused with the tags still on it or in the case of a first aid kit, still sealed as if it was bought when Clark moved in and never even opened. also show more of clark working as a reporter in the movies.
@fortello7219 Жыл бұрын
It's truly baffling that none of these movies have ever once attempted to have Superman do anything nice for some normal people? Superman is meant to be excessively human. The boy scout. The golden boy. The kind of person who stops crime then flies down to help the mailman with his route and ask about his day because he has the time. What's worse is that's a great way to start any Superman movie. Just have him talk to people, like a human being. Know their names, ask about their days, etc. Very humanizing. Sets the tone and bar very well
@wholethedogsout880 Жыл бұрын
@Erik Kemeey oh wow the bare minimum. oh wow 1 percent of clark kent's true potential. shutup.
@KneelB4Bacon Жыл бұрын
What I also thought was baffling is that about a third of the way through the movie, Clark and his dad are talking about the school bus incident and Clark asks his Dad whether or not he should have just let all those kids die. Ok, great, the movie is setting up the question "WILL Clark choose to use his powers to help people?" That's a good idea to explore. But his dad's response to that question is "maybe" which is all kinds of f*cked up. Clark's dad would NEVER say that. Also, thanks to Zack Snyder's pretentious, out-of-order editing of Clark's life ("he's a man - he's a boy - he's a teenager - he's a boy- he's a man") we get the answer to that question in the first five minutes of the film, when Clark saves all those men on that oil rig. So the answer is "YES. Clark WILL use his powers to help humanity" long before the film asks that question, which makes the Clark/Dad scene pointless.
@Harrysatt 7 ай бұрын
I know it's cheezy, but what the film (and the Snyderverse as a whole) needed was a "saving the cat" moment. We needed to see a scene where he helps people as Superman in a way that isn't exciting or badass, a way that shows he actually cares and isn't saving people because he finds it fun or exciting.
@marocainforlife 7 ай бұрын
@@KneelB4Bacon wow so now simple editing is considered pretentious? Lmao you guys are a hoot
@KneelB4Bacon 7 ай бұрын
@@marocainforlife No, I'm saying Snyder is an idiot because he gives us the answer to that question long before he even sets up the question. For example, if you were watching a murder mystery and they show right at the start that "Bob" is the killer . . . and then the rest of the movie revolves around "I wonder if Bob could have done it?" you would be annoyed that the director was wasting your time.
@WatchMaga Жыл бұрын
One factor you haven’t mentioned: Power creep. The original Superman was of limited ability. As the character became more powerful over time, he approached the status of a god. As such, Christological archetype became a more natural fit.
@joshuarichardson6529 Жыл бұрын
Samson is a better fit for Superman than either Moses or Jesus. You have a super-strong hero, with a fantastic origin story, who fights to protect his people from oppression by bully-like villains.
@paintedjaguar Жыл бұрын
@@joshuarichardson6529 Perseus, if you just have to go with specific mythology. All this Space Jesus stuff started with the Donner/Salkind Superman movie. Maybe it's Mario Puzo's fault.
@mainstreetsaint36 Жыл бұрын
At his peak, a Hydrogen Bomb made him sneeze.
@h3was547 Жыл бұрын
The"Superman and Lois" show is perfect, he's over powered yet in a grounded non miraculous way, time reversal pulling, moons and the craziness of the past is not being done.
@_le.explica.epicamente_ Жыл бұрын
Superman sacrificed a lot of humans to kill Zod Jesus sacrificed himself to save us from the devil Superman was fighting Jesus was saving
@AdamYJ Жыл бұрын
Funny thing, the Japanese character Ultraman probably has more Jesus parallels than Superman does, despite coming from a largely non-Christian nation. The reason being that his creator Eiji Tsuburaya was a (decidedly rare) Japanese Catholic. Though, as the series developed, the Ultras started to seem more like angels than messiahs.
@user-pj1ec5om5g Жыл бұрын
I always felt that they were more like Angels since the start
@Byronic19134 Жыл бұрын
Ultraman would so be the Japanese name. Now we just need a Chinese version called ManPlus
@andrewsuryali8540 Жыл бұрын
Ultramen are considered divine beings by some civilizations in the main lore. This got to the point where the Malaysian translator of the Ultraman OFFICIAL comics almost went to jail because of a literal translation of one line. IIRC it read something like, "Ultraman is viewed and revered as a god..." which was unwisely translated to "Ultraman dilihat dan dihormati sebagai Allah..." which is obviously a no-no in Muslim-majority Malaysia. Ironically the cause of this is because in Malaysia the publishing convention prevents the use of words that may suggest the existence of other gods (in neighboring Indonesia the word deva is used), so Allah was the only recourse for translating that line.
@apreviousseagle836 Жыл бұрын
Ok now you got me interested in this character.
@user-pj1ec5om5g Жыл бұрын
@@apreviousseagle836 Ultraman is a unit of the space police force from the land of light, on his way to capture the criminal Bemular he accidentally crashes into a jet and kills the pilot. To atone for his sins he fuses his life force with that of Hayato, the man in he jet, who is a part of the science patrol. A group of humans who investigate scientific anomalies. Now Hayato has the ability to transform into Ultraman whenever the things get rough, such as giant monsters to strong for conventional weaponry or aliens with IQ above the millions. The show is like if the Twilight Zone was mixed with a super hero, if the old timey effects of the classic is too much for you I suggest waiting for the newly made “Shin Ultraman” made by the creator of Evangelion, to be your starting point. It captures the charm of the original with modern effects though I still implore you to check the original series.
@klaojungwiwattanaporn6927 Жыл бұрын
Stop making Superman Jesus or he'll turn into a House in the Ocean.
@TheGenericVideoGamer Жыл бұрын
Exactly, man
@JIMT412 Жыл бұрын
And being forcefully crown ad the king of the people on the Moon
@shadowofdakness Жыл бұрын
Thank you for this vid and question. What does this make Batman? If you notice multiple times in both comics and animated movies/t.v shows they look so alike you’d think they’re brothers. In fact I heard there’s a comic where Clark dropped his glasses and everybody thought he was Bruce Wayne.😂
@gamesux420 Жыл бұрын
They should make superman either more human, not by making him be evil or bad or "flawed" or whatever, but just showing us more Clark kent, his upbringing, parents, friends from work etc. that scene from 2001 justice league where he invites J'onn to his parents home for christmas was such a great scene for him. Or go more into his Kryptonian Heritage, theres some DC media where they say that his ship had all this information about krypton on it in the hopes that Kal-El would have access to it and learn more about his people, i would love to see a cinematic superman thats more Kal-El-ish whilst embracing that hes still human, not unlike Goku remember that "Im a saiyan, raised on earth" line? That was awesome, but you cant just have him say it you gotta make it mean something.
@nigelhirth2181 Жыл бұрын
Personally I miss the stories about Clark. Just a humble farm kid from Kansas that woke up one day the hero. I miss those stories where even he is amazed by the things he can do. That is Big Blue at his most relatable in my opinion.
@ninjanibba4259 Жыл бұрын
It's why Smallville and Superman & Lois (to certain points) are my go to examples of what it means to be superman
@surrotten3354 Жыл бұрын
That's literally what smallvie is
@nigelhirth2181 Жыл бұрын
@@surrotten3354 yeah you're right. A show that was cancelled over a decade ago, hence "miss".
@wesleywyndam-pryce5305 Жыл бұрын
adapt the silver age! we need a superman batman buddy flick!
@mandalorianhunter1 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for this video, I used to be in the camp of Superman not being interesting but after talking to a friend who had the same thoughts, I realized I was falling into that unfair viewpoint. Yeah I don't like how they portray him as godlike or he has to be cold at times. People defend DCEU Superman a lot but I can't get through it. I don't hate it. My favorite version is DCAU Superman and my favorite live action version is the Arrowverse version. Superman can work but people aren't willing to try. Also stop making him lose to Batman in non comic adaptations.
@mandalorianhunter1 Жыл бұрын
@Erik Kemeey I know he has his moments and he is a good person, but he can be depressing at times. What are you talking about? He doesn't smile all the time, in MoS, he barely smiles throughout most of the film. A lot of people want to deconstruct the mythos but doesn't mean it worked all the way well.
@mandalorianhunter1 Жыл бұрын
@Erik Kemeey you said ALL THE TIME, you just posted a few scenes. He wasn't smiling in his kid scenes, he wasn't smiling when he was traveling from place to place, he wasn't smiling at the end. He was depressed most of the movie. Wasn't he stopping the world engine at the end of the movie, not the beginning or mid of the movie.
@electricfeverx976 Жыл бұрын
@@mandalorianhunter1 that's a huge issue with the Snyder interpretation, the man thinks brooding equals realistic. He showed he was better off doing more darker superhero stories like Watchmen but he fumbles so hard with Superman. His attempts to "deconstruct" the mythos devolved to making him emo, not smile or have a friendly demeanour when saving people, and always act like he's so disconnected from the world and the people who inhabit it(besides Louis and his mom). Animated Superman show writers know how to use him well in a serious and light-hearted tone, with the obvious examples being the one from the DCAU. Snyder should honestly look to stories like Superman vs The Elite or Superman for All Seasons to see why altruistic Superman is so beloved and enduring.
@mandalorianhunter1 Жыл бұрын
@@electricfeverx976 we got a great Superman in the Arrowverse. I agree. Make Superman how MCU Captain America and Spider-Man are.
@asiabrew81 Жыл бұрын
@Erik Kemeey In order to deconstruct Superman you have to understand the mythos and Snyder did not because the concept of Superman is just not his vibe. He honestly would've been happier directing a Batman film, but since Nolan already finished doing that (He's the one who hired Snyder. The other choice was James Gunn. Oooooh the lost opportunity) Batman was off the table at the time.
@TheSaltyLibrarian 8 ай бұрын
There's a joke in Michael Chabon's Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay (a really good novel that tells the story of early comic books through an explicitly Jewish lens) where one character who's a Jewish immigrant says, "Superman must be Jewish. He is from another country but comes here and names himself 'Clark Kent' - only Jew would do that."
@mazoku112 Жыл бұрын
Yeah he's a dude who chooses to do the right thing by the people around him. There's a huge wealth of story telling there. Even to the point that you could tell stories about our society via his stories. He's a guy living amongst us who just happens to be super. It never comes before the man. Even if it's written that way.
@kaustubhpalkar792 Жыл бұрын
Superman is a friend from Smallville who believes in dreams and the one who stands for truth, justice and the American way.
@geeksquad4741 Жыл бұрын
* a better tomorrow
@electricfeverx976 Жыл бұрын
Shame they can't say that last part anymore, it used to the slogan for many heroes and it still could be. If only they focused on the American ideal, and not the U.S.A. today it could still kind of fit.
@exilestudios9546 Жыл бұрын
@@electricfeverx976 Superman protects all of humanity not just one insignificant nation state
@owensanfordstuff Жыл бұрын
I forgot America was the only nation of people to have a sense of justice and truth
@SirWarden Жыл бұрын
@@exilestudios9546 He's not saying Superman only protects America, of course Superman helps anyone in need. Electric Fever was talking about the American ideal: Freedom, Liberty, and justice for all. And I'm not sure what you mean by "Insignificant". Are you saying the US/kansas is insignificant? That's messed up dude.
@sephikong8323 Жыл бұрын
Honestly, if they really want to have a dark go at Superman my recommendation would be : make him the light that shines in the dark, the one that never loses hope and always carries on and inspires people. That's the basis of this whole thing, you can have a broody Batman to compensate and act as a foil in the JL for example, but it should work that way regardless. But if you REALLY want it dark, the follow the previous points highlighted except that after sometime, Superman snaps and lets all of the darkness of the world consume him whereas Batman doesn't change his moral compass, he is still a bit dark but still a positive force and so the two clash. Did I basically describe the basic premise of Injustice? Yes, but even if it has some problems it works for making a very dark Superman representation that has a purpose and isn't purely gratuitous, but for it to work you need to first establish the status quo. I'd honestly really like it if there was an Injustice movie entry (an actual one, not the god awful Injustice movie that butchered the storyline to hell and back. Like wtf The Flash was probably the best part of the Injustice storyline and they killed him at the start for no reason), I'd like it much more than most of the DC movies we've had (seriously, why is it that a game whose premise is "Superman is evil", as outlandish as it sounds, sets up the Clark/Bruce relationship perfectly and makes for an infinitely better confrontation between the two than the movie solely dedicated to it ?! Sorry, we're not talking about BVS , I shouldn't rant about it)
@jacobb5484 Жыл бұрын
There’s 2 great Superman stories. 1. Superman the good guy vs something he can’t beat directly. Lex Luther is probably the best example, he’s a corrupt businessman who has a good public image so Superman can’t confront him directly using his physical strength. Instead, he needs to utilize Clark Kent’s investigative journalist skills to find a solution. 2. Superman the divine vs the world’s perception of him. Half of these stories aren’t really about Superman, instead they’re about how individuals and the world as a whole react to Superman’s existence as a truly unstoppable embodiment of good.
@Notarealchannelok Жыл бұрын
I'm so tired of the evil superman concept. It's too easy and it's been overdone. Emo/Evil superman. Not just injustice but things outside like Omni-man, Dr. Manhattan, Homelander, etc. The might be good characters but I want to see a proper portrayal of Clark. The whole "Superman would actually be evil irl" is such a cynical concept.
@sephikong8323 Жыл бұрын
@@Notarealchannelok Just to say : Omni-Man is probably the oldest one in there and was made before this was a trend (in a way it was the trend setter) and it isn't even really "evil superman" but one where Kryptonians are actually evil and although Superman would start by upholding their values, you can still sense humanity in him and he undergoes a redemption arc and tries to reform his people away from slaughter and violence, he isn't what I'd call just an evil superman for the sake of it and should definitely get a pass. Also, most of these stories (like Injustice or Kingdom Come) don't try to say that "realistically Superman would be evil" (that sort of unnecessarily edgy statement is reserved to The Boys) but rather "if Superman were pushed over the edge, what would happen?", which in itself is a pretty interesting question, the main disservice done to it is that we've gotten too many stories trying to answer it in a short amount of time which leads to fatigue. Those are my two cents Edit : also, I just caught but ........ Dr. Manhattan? Like, why ? Outside of them both being incomprehensibly powerful beings I fail to see the similarities or how Dr Manhattan qualifies as an evil version as he strikes me as a purely neutral being. Could you explain what you had in mind
@Notarealchannelok Жыл бұрын
@@sephikong8323 I think that the question of "If superman were evil" was asked by the very people that created him. I never read the "Reign of the Superman" though. It was the first concept created before Clark Kent. The problem for me is that the question really seems overdone to hell. It has kept me from reading things like Red Son. I think I've seen trailers for indie movies that ask if superman was an evil alien child (Brightburn? I think is the name of one of them). immediately turned me off. At first I think it is an interesting concept, but there has not been a big screen adaptation of Supes that really encapsulates the character. Not Superman Returns or Snyderverse. He is either Jesus or Evil. At this point we are more likely to see a version of Superman not like the comics than like it. Most people only really know Superman from the movies which is either goody-two shoes or emo (Snyder) or evil (literally anything else including non-dc) I don't remember Kingdom Come supes being evil. Probably one of my favorite stories from Supes. It pushed him to the edge, but he held his ideals. Unless that was what you were saying. Which is the kind of Superman story I would like to see done more often. I mentioned Dr. Manhattan because I think I read somewhere that Alan Moore said he was a representation of Superman or at least some kind of lonely all powerful being, ties back to Superman being Jesus. I could be wrong and maybe Zack Snyder said that idk. But I always linked both characters. Also Alan Moore has written for Superman before so idk.
@Notarealchannelok Жыл бұрын
@@sephikong8323 I just remembered that part of the plot for Watchmen was that Dr.Manhattan is like a nuclear deterrent. And that ideology has been brought up several times in superman mythos I think. I haven't read Red Son but I think part of the plot would include that detail. I think BvS brought it up. Also the possility of Dr.Manhattan and Supes going rogue and stuff like that.
@chriselliott8830 Жыл бұрын
Wow this amount of information is so helpful I don't know if people realize how much more information there is in this time in the world than they used to be in like 1978 for the general public thank you for making these great documentaries and I can see all the hard work you put into it
@lukeyznaga7627 3 ай бұрын
Pillar....you make some interesting points. I gave you the thumbs up. Haven't subscribed yet...need to see some more of your videos. But compared to others, you EXPLAIN WELL and clearly.
@Sharikacat Жыл бұрын
I've long held the belief that the most interesting and compelling Superman stories focus not on Clark as a Super man but on him as a super Man. For whatever villain that needs punched, Superman can punch it. For whatever structure that needs lifted, Superman can lift it. But he can't be everywhere at once. Clark's super hearing allows him to hear countless people in peril all of the time, and he has to CHOOSE who gets saved and who doesn't. He has this unspoken burden of being God in that his decision to act, or not act, means people somewhere else die. All. Of. The. Time. And yet, he'll also spend an entire day and night watching over a suicidal women atop a building, waiting for her to be ready to talk because he won't "save" her without her permission (an acceptable Jesus connection). This was the one part of Man of Steel I really liked, Superman responding to all of these disasters around the city while the villain gets away. It's his race to save as many as possible, but I also would have liked to see him fail in some parts of that. This is the story that matters- how he copes with not being able to save everyone. In the Kingdom Come story, Flash became so distraught that he endlessly runs around his city to stop crime, never taking a moment to rest, because just that one time he wasn't fast enough to stop someone he cared about from dying. I want to see Superman go through that and come to terms with his inability to be God. No its not an action-driven story but a character-driven one (though there would be opportunity for many action set pieces of him zooming from disaster to disaster). That is the Superman I want to see in a movie.
@Duothimir Жыл бұрын
One particular thing I liked about the Death of Superman comic story was after Doomsday had smashed a house in the middle of nowhere and beaten the Justice League to a pulp, the people in the house were trapped in a fire while Superman was flying off in pursuit of Doomsday. He could hear the son of the family calling desperately for help, specifically calling out Superman's name even, and he knew there was a mother and an infant there too. But if he stopped to help them, then there was no telling how many other people Doomsday would kill in the meantime. It was a no-win scenario. So anyway, Superman took a third option by grabbing Doomsday, planting him deep into the mud at the bottom of a lake to slow him down, and took that opportunity to go back for the family. Superman has to choose who to save, but it's not in his nature to ignore people either. If he can find a way to do it without sacrificing someone else, he will. And he can be quite clever about it too.
@Sharikacat Жыл бұрын
Except it wasn't a no-win scenario, since Supes created a 3rd option where he wins. But that also means Superman could have always done that to Doomsday, even if he didn't need to skip out to save other people. But in the case of just those two initial options, Superman would have clearly let Doomsday get away so he could save the family. People *might* die with Doomsday getting away, but that family absolutely would die otherwise, so the choice is morally justified. A more interesting narrative, though not necessarily what the writer wanted at the time, would be for Doomsday, knowing that Superman wanted to leave the fight to go save people about to die, actively prevented Superman from that save. Superman might afterwards acknowledge that he had been holding back against Doomsday and took on guilt for those innocent deaths because of it.
@Duothimir Жыл бұрын
@@Sharikacat The point was that it was written to look like a no-win scenario only for Superman to reject it and find a way to save the family while also preventing further deaths in the time it took. He is the kind of man who will try to find that third option, and has the cleverness to do so. Edit: Doomsday had already killed plenty of innocent people by that point, and Superman did in fact stop holding back immediately after because he realized he had no choice since Doomsday was a mindless monster who couldn't be reasoned with or imprisoned. Your point is moot.
@Sharikacat Жыл бұрын
@@Duothimir My point is that the writer gave Superman a "win" instead of making him face the moral ramifications of either not saving people now or endangering other people in the future and that a more compelling character dive would have had him actually be in a no-win situation. The rest was narrative brainstorming. You don't find out who a person really is when they win; you find out who they are when they lose. That would be a chance to explore the "Man" of Superman.
@Nortarachanges Жыл бұрын
@@Sharikacat , he couldn’t always have done that to Doomsday. Superman was in Metropolis while the Justice League was fighting Doomsday in Ohio. Superman shows up in time for the Justice Leaguers who are still standing to ask him to shoot laser eyes at the critter while they do their own beam things. Superman didn’t know what he was up against, so he holds back like he always did. But Doomsday takes their combined energy without a scratch, then beats the rest of the Justice League into unconsciousness and jumps away. Superman, shocked and furious, chases after Doomsday and starts to fight him for real. Then he hears a boy in a house that caught fire from their struggle cry for help. So Superman pauses his fight with Doomsday to stick it in the bottom of a lake and goes back to save the family Minutes between finding out Doomsday exists to sticking it in a lake. Unless Superman should go around sticking all his foes into lakes on sight, he didn’t have time to do it before
@whodatboi2567 Жыл бұрын
This was a great and thought-provoking analysis on Superman as a Christ allegory. While saying this was done intentionally for profit is quite a blunt way of putting it I've always felt that it was done to help Superman, a character from the 1940s, maintain relevance. Superman is the superhero that almost every superhero afterwards modelled themselves after and thus he holds this transcendent cultural value. The issue is that Superman being the archetypical superhero makes him quite limited as he HAS to represent a good that is almost fundamental to the role of a superhero. Thus, it would make sense that writers would take inspiration from Jesus as he is the biggest embodiment of an infallible pursuit of good from a mythological and theological sense. The ultimate purpose is to shield Superman form critiques of being deemed boring for being too powerful and/or unrealistically unwavering as writers can place a level of importance to him that (on the surface) takes precedence over entertainment value. In fairness, I believe the Christ allegory works best when modelling Superman's themes around hope similarly to the Temptation of Christ (where Jesus staves off Satan's temptations) rather than around Christ's crucifixion.
@misterlau5246 Жыл бұрын
Although I am not a Christian myself, I agree. They are going in peace. Not the sacrifice in the crux and patibulum. Cheers
@rayzas4885 Жыл бұрын
Christ isn't mythological
@wholethedogsout880 Жыл бұрын
@@rayzas4885 for many it is
@BAGELMENSK Жыл бұрын
@@rayzas4885 no matter what you believe about it it can be treated as such, and doing so does not necessarily lessen the value that can be extracted from it.
@angelopellicci179 Жыл бұрын
@@rayzas4885 that’s not the point of his argument. Stop trying to find something to argue about.
@NaranjaViano 11 ай бұрын
It's ironic that people compare Superman with Jesus, because Superman was made by jewish authors.
@JediMaestr0 Жыл бұрын
Holy smokes, I’d never made the Moses connection before! As a Christian and a big Superman fan, I feel dumb now. But yeah I would really like to see that parallel played up in a movie somehow!
@loturzelrestaurant Жыл бұрын
Superman was Once Class-Aware? Wow, i wonder if he would have liked Issue-listing and problem-adressing KZfaqrs like Cody Johnston and Second-Thought.
@ChienaAvtzon Жыл бұрын
As someone who is Jewish, I would like to thank you for making this video. As great as Henry Cavill looked as Superman, Snyder and the writers destroyed the character by making him Jesus. They knew absolutely nothing about the history of the character. Superman is very much an allegory to the Jewish experience in America. To the point, Superman even physically looks like many Ashkenazi Jews with his wavy black hair and light-colored eyes. “Smallville” only had the Jesus imagery in the Pilot episode. The rest of the series focused on the Jewish heritage and Moses and Samson allegory.
@dikiiieykick1734 Жыл бұрын
Did u watch the movie, if supes appeared on earth he would be worshipped as a god and u think man of steel does not do the Jewish roots
@kasadam85 Жыл бұрын
MoS was awesome, Superman has been idolised and compared to Jesus in the comics too.
@upon1326 Жыл бұрын
@@kasadam85 I'm getting so tired of kid's who read one comic and claim to know everything about them. SUPERMAN IS COMPARED TO JESUS BY BAD SUPERMAN WRITER'S.
@ChienaAvtzon Жыл бұрын
@@kasadam85 - The creators of Superman were Jewish, and based the character on the Jewish experience in America. Any religious allegories would have been from the Torah only, as Christianity is antithetical to Judaism. Only people who do not understand history compare Superman to Jesus.
@PillarofGarbage Жыл бұрын
Glad you liked the video, I did my best with it! I've not seen all of Smallville myself yet, but IIRC the thesis linked in the video description discusses Superman/Jesus parallels in Smallville from at least another episode beside the pilot. Someone ought to make a video tracking the way that Superman symbolism changed throughout that show!
@jorgeperez2872 Жыл бұрын
He is more of a Moses figure than anything.
@luzoroana Жыл бұрын
Moses was raised by his enemies and grew up in the house of a king and wasn't sent from the stars was also found in water hence his name Jesus was sent from the heavens and raised in a common man's home wasn't raised by enemies but people he came to save Don't be in denial the only thing that connects superman to moses is that both were sent away from their home because of the inconveniences
@HolyknightVader999 Жыл бұрын
Er, no. Moses actually became a statesman and a leader of his people. Clark is a glorified law enforcement guy with laser beams and super strength.
@TheDawnofVanlife Жыл бұрын
@@luzoroana There’s a difference between a small baby born of disadvantaged parents sent down the river to litterally live a better life then he would have had with his bio parents and then returns to his origins voluntarily to save others. And a super being (God) planting his seed in a poor woman and have her give actual birth to his super being baby ‘destined’ to save humanity. It’s not the same story at all.
@adamplentl5588 Жыл бұрын
Can't think of a single parallel between the two.
@ShirDeutch Жыл бұрын
He is more of a Goku than anything.
@andersnaugle4105 Жыл бұрын
they're trying to show how people would god worship him, but they themselves god worship him, so it feels like the character is treating himself as a god. then they try to humanize the character and it conflicts with the god complex and you end up with a problem that a character needs to grow but frombegining to end both he and the world think he's perfect.
@ctrlv4037 Жыл бұрын
that explained a lot, thanks for the video, glad someone mentions those things, it helps to understand everything even more
@jbobko9291 Жыл бұрын
Humanity, hope, and love. The pillars of Superman. They missed on pretty much every one of them.
@HawkOfKrypton Жыл бұрын
I most certianly disagree, they were all there: just not in a overtly wholesome or simplistic lense.
@blackleague212 Жыл бұрын
Tell the video creator, that the christian folks at Action Comics in 1930s sure did try and make superman some type of "Jesus"... he keeps deleting my comment cause it is the truth.
@mobgas Жыл бұрын
Meanwhile Nixonverse superman become jesus literally
@juicyparsons Жыл бұрын
I WAS LOOKING FOR THIS COMMENT THANK YOU lol
@amiablereaper Жыл бұрын
I don't really understand the reference here but the word "nixonverse" fills me with dread
@Gustyguy Жыл бұрын
@@amiablereaper this is actually a reference to monument Mythos a popular analog horror series about monuments
@maxygurl2731 Жыл бұрын
If superman is to be compared to anything mythological i think the best fits would be Moses and the Golem, i feel like superman is very golemesque in the way that he defends the oppressed, he is a man of superhuman strength, yet he doesn’t use indiscriminate violence at every chance he gets to do so, just like how in a lot of retellings of the golem story, the purpose for the creation of the golem is simply to figure out the true stories behind the deaths of christians which was being blamed on the jews as a part of the blood libel myth, he serves more as a detective than a war machine, its only when a violent christian mob breaks into the ghetto that the golem acts in defensive violence for the jewish community
@nosfonader8792 Жыл бұрын
This is why DC needs to bring in either Mongul (space Gladiator) or Brainiac (avenging Krypton). With Brainiac, you give the destruction of Kryton another layer and new angel for Clark. Vengeance for a world he never grew up on. With Mongul, you can have a simple adventure story set on another planet. Mongul is underrated, his recent Warworld comic arc proves he can be cinematic. Also the hilarity of an alien (Clark Kent) being abducted by another alien (Mongul).
@marlonscott160 Жыл бұрын
Keep in mind that Superman's Kryptonian name is Kal-El. The character of Superman was created by Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster, who were both Jewish, and the suffix "El" means "god" in Hebrew (Gabri-el, Azra-el, Micha-el, etc). The allusions to god in regards to Superman are no accident and have always been apparent.
@stevenscott2136 Жыл бұрын
Somebody told me that "Kal-El" would mean "voice of God" in Hebrew... at least if you speak it with a really bad accent. Any Hebrew speakers in here?
@sharkbit123 Жыл бұрын
@@stevenscott2136 Jew here. "Voice" in Hebrew is "kol," so it's close. "Kal" means "all." It's actually a common misconception that "el" means "god." A better translation would be "power." Now "power" can refer to the power of G-d in some instances (like in the names you mentioned), but sometimes it stands on its own or refers to powers that are not directly divine. The best example of this is that in the Bible, pagan gods are often referred to as "elim," or "powers." This has led to the additional misconception that ancient Jews recognized the existence of other gods besides the G-d of Israel. So a good translation of Kal-El would be "all powerful," or "he who has the power of G-d."
@andrewsuryali8540 Жыл бұрын
@@major5554 Not exactly. The ancient Israelites who wrote about the Divine Council also had a term for angels: malach/melek. The members of the Divine Council were instead considered elohim originally. The association of the Divine Council with angels came first in the 4th century BCE edit of the 7th century BCE version of the Book of Job, and the definition stuck. However, these are two different versions of the Divine Council. In the original Divine Council preserved in the pre-Christian Septuagint and the Dead Sea Scrolls, El Elyon the Canaanite chief god was God and YHWH was just a member of the Council.
@notapplicable6985 Жыл бұрын
@@sharkbit123 Why were you censoring 'God'? That is his title, so I don't think it would be taking his name in vain.
@sharkbit123 Жыл бұрын
@@notapplicable6985 It's a convention of Jewish culture. We don't fully write the conventional name of G-d in any language. Some people even extend this to spoken language, so instead of saying "G-d," they say HaShem, which means "the Name."
@nealenthenerd399 Жыл бұрын
I saw the thumbnail and said “Yes!”
@velvet373 Жыл бұрын
Not sure if this needed a 30 min video but I've been feeling this about superman for about 20 years... Work well done
@wholethedogsout880 Жыл бұрын
it did need a 30 minute video. it required analysis
@readingdistraction9204 Жыл бұрын
This is why I like the New 52 Superman so much. He's a dorky, normal guy with superpowers
@kungalexander829 3 ай бұрын
Isn't the new 52 superman is exactly the same Zack Snyder superman is? I feel like Zack Snyder was inspired by the new 52 version A one dimensional character who is always depressed, brash, angry and stupid? Well at least that's what everybody says Also Superman x Wonder Woman is unacceptable for me
@readingdistraction9204 3 ай бұрын
@kungalexander829 Barely the same as Snyder's. New 52 and Snyder's both were not always depressed or angry. Superman X Wonder Woman makes sense so far. Sure, Clark and Lois are iconic. But many series have shown (like Invincible which is really good) that if you're a superhero getting with a person that's not, it's gonna be bad. So a superhero getting with another is a lot better.
@kungalexander829 3 ай бұрын
@@readingdistraction9204 sure not always but most of the times definitely yes The dorky Clark moments only happens like in few rare scenes that are not even important to the plot, every time when his superman We don't see *superman* being a dork or happy, just either being emotionless or pissed or always getting mind controlled by darkseid And no, wonder woman and superman won't make sense because Diana is a princess from a society of all warrior women who are trained to kill and who has a little bit distrust on men while Clark is an alien with human jobs with human problems Just because they're both strong physically superheroes like doesn't it make them a 10/10 couple Regarding invincible (weird comparison to superman btw) is that Amber is just a toxic girlfriend. Even tho she is not toxic in the comics, she is still not a fitting girl for mark since she still cheated on him emotionally for lacking patience. The fact Nolan and Debbie even managed to make it work and get married for 20 years (Nolan truly loves Debbie) despite his a double agent is shocking
@readingdistraction9204 3 ай бұрын
@kungalexander829 Amber in the comic was not toxic. And yes, I agree about WW (I'm not that far into reading the New 52, only bit I've seen of the two is Justice League Vol. 1) but from what I've noticed, Superman is that one person who isn't like all the other men she has met. She's starting to see different and seeing a guy like Superman, which let's face it, a pretty cool guy, ofc she'd fall for that. Or at least be interested.
@johnthai6188 24 күн бұрын
i love grant morrison's run on action comics and greg pak's action comics the truth arc are amazing.
@kaustubhpalkar792 Жыл бұрын
Just imagine a kingdom come movie trilogy with Brandon Routh as superman, John Hamm as batman and Jamie Alexander as wonder
@bubblegumpeach5662 Жыл бұрын
I'd love that soooio much 🥰🥰
@John_Fury Жыл бұрын
@@bubblegumpeach5662 🤗😘🤗
@greggoat6570 Жыл бұрын
I love Kingdom Come but why would it take 3 movies to tell that story?
@martinwalker2501 Жыл бұрын
@@greggoat6570 fan service? Lol.
@Ammoniumbicarbonat Жыл бұрын
How about Michael Keaton as Batman?
@vaggos2003 Жыл бұрын
Linkara: One of these days someone should make one of those video essays that explains why comparing Superman and Jesus is stupid. Pillar of Garbage: Say no more.
@GamingLovesJohn Жыл бұрын
My take on Superman disagrees with Tarantino’s take on Superman in Kill Bill. Clark Kent maybe a secret identity for Kal El. But at the same reverence, holds the same values, morals and such. When he was raised by his adopted parents, these ideals are instilled in him, grew up with them. He was born Kal El, but he is Clark Kent, a man born with superhuman abilities, learning from his adopted father and his own experiences on not to abuse them, and use them for his own personal gain. Because without Clark Kent, what makes Superman, Superman? Sure he has insane powers that makes him on par with gods. But at the end of the day, power does not fulfill him, it’s his morals and the lessons he learned in his life that shape him.
@tehdipstick 10 ай бұрын
27:14 I feel like the DCAU's take on Superman is one of the best because it basically boils down to the fact that yes, he may have extra-terrestrial origins and superpowers, but what makes him Superman is simply that he was raised to be a good person by the Kents. He identifies as human because they taught him to be kind, humble and down-to-earth, to work hard and to not compromise his morals. The Justice League episode "Comfort and Joy" does a perfect job of identifying Clark as human, especially from the point of view of J'onn, an alien who didn't grow up on Earth, through his relationship with his parents. I'd recommend any Superman fan to check out the "Martian Manhunter joins Superman's family for Christmas" clip.
@nopexd4833 Жыл бұрын
Damn Nixon really be fictionalising last lost very hard
@JIMT412 Жыл бұрын
Profits, even God needs the greens and not the plant to be exact.
@joaojahnke9684 Жыл бұрын
Even as a Catholic, I never liked Superman as a Jesus figure, because for it to work, it usually misunderstands Jesus or Superman heavily.
@StageInTheSkyCreations Жыл бұрын
Agreed!
@milkak6823 Жыл бұрын
Same here. I always thought it offensive if anything?
@joaojahnke9684 Жыл бұрын
@@milkak6823 I wouldnt say offensive, but very out of touch
@GeneralBolas Жыл бұрын
I just realized something; the Moses parallels can even extend to Lex Luthor as a Pharaoh parallel. Modern-day Luthor is often portrayed as an old friend of Clark's from Smallville, much as Moses and Ramses were raised as brothers. But they eventually have a falling out over morality. Pharaoh wants to extract the value of labor from his slaves, and Moses doesn't want that. Modern Luthor is a wealthy capitalist who imposes his will upon the lessers. He sees himself as superior to all others, and is often portrayed as jealous of the power Superman has which he can never have. Which is not unlike Ramses to some extent, having miracles performed so that he can be seen as equal to Moses's miracles. There's a lot of richness to be seen with this whole thing.
@jamestolbert1856 7 ай бұрын
I wish the films would acknowledge that Clark doesn’t inspire them, they inspire him
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