Poly Suspension Bushings - (15 Year Review)

Рет қаралды 91,172

Күн бұрын

I have been using Polyurethane Suspension Bushings for 15 years in my 3800 Supercharged Pontiac Fiero and have learned the good and bad side of living with these over the long term. These same lessons could be applied to the C5 Corvette when considering upgrading the stock rubber to poly bushings. Here is my 15 year review & who I think might benefit most from using them.
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Пікірлер: 245

@Schrimpieman Жыл бұрын

This is the most realistic, non-bias, &informative vid I've seen on a long time. Most just brag about how new and great everything is, but long-term operation is more important than the initial "wow" factor. Thanks for sharing !!

@Toys4Life Жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@eddiemcmurray579 Жыл бұрын

I'm a taxi driver in The UK and would drive up to 50,000 miles per year. I thought poly bushes were The best thing ever for a number of year's as I would get at the least twice as much life out of the poly bushes that would from the rubber bushes. Until I started to notice that the metal that was in close contact with the bushes was wearing away. The wishbone arms would lose there tightness at holding the bushes to the point that the arms would need replaced so they could properly hold the bushes again. Another thing was the pins and sleeves and would wear and occasionally seize making it very difficult to get the arm apart again. I went back to using the OEM-quality rubber bushes and never had to replace an arm again. Just like to pass on my experiences when using poly bushes at high milage.

@Toys4Life Жыл бұрын

That's some good feedback right there, thank you!!

@Sir-Kay 11 ай бұрын

You never had to replace arm bushings anymore? I mean as a taxi driver you drive 5 times more than us average road users, Sir, I don't think it's possible you don't have to replace arms anymore. My last replacement was 2018 or early 2019 & I only cover between 8-9k km a year on Polish roads.

@TM-fx5le 2 ай бұрын

@@Sir-Kay your comment doesn’t make sense. He said he doesn’t have to replace arms anymore, only the arm bushings.

@Sir-Kay 2 ай бұрын

@@TM-fx5le don't need to be harsh. Need a hug?

@TM-fx5le 2 ай бұрын

@@Sir-Kay Not being harsh, and no but it would help if you wrote a coherent sentence buddy. I genuinely don’t understand what you’re trying to say, can you just read over it and edit your comment?

@pavlos413 6 ай бұрын

This convinced me to go with simple rubber for the daily driver. Thanks for saving me a lot of grief.

@frankpeutz9106 2 жыл бұрын

Try to wrap a single layer of teflon tape around the inner (steel) bush thereafter smear a little silicone grease and you will reduce maintenance drastically (5 years or longer, you’ll see).

@Toys4Life 2 жыл бұрын

It's a pretty tight fit between the inner slave and the bushing, I don't think Teflon tape would have a chance of staying on there as you push it in, there's just not that much clearance by design to keep it nice and firm and have no movement which is the whole point of poly bushings.

@frankpeutz9106 2 жыл бұрын

@@Toys4Life just try it, have done it for years and learned it from a tuner.

@Toys4Life 2 жыл бұрын

@@frankpeutz9106 I'll give it a whirl the next time I've got one squeaking. Thanks for the suggestion!

@frankpeutz9106 2 жыл бұрын

@@Toys4Life First time I was told how to I reacted like you, but I tried it out and it really worked. Also it doesn't compromise the working of the PU bushes.

@wades623 Жыл бұрын

What about that thick yellow Teflon tape for gas lines You ever try that

@sst9364 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the video. I always consider buying these for better handling/performance, but with daily driver going to pass seeing the maintenance. Extremely appreciate your time. I will save a check.

@Toys4Life 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you! If it is a dedicated performance toy - I would go for it. Daily driving in all conditions - I would consider the maintenance. Cheers!

@williamdejeffrio9701 9 ай бұрын

Wow - thanks for sharing that. Wasn't aware of the increased need for maintenance.

@Toys4Life 9 ай бұрын

Happy to help!

@venskus2009 3 ай бұрын

youre a godsend im over here trying to choose betweem replacing my bushings or just getting new control arms all around. this easily just put me over the edge and im just getting new arms all around to avoid instllation hassle.

@Friedbrain11 3 жыл бұрын

I was going to buy polyurethane bushing with about 10% more stiffness, but they also had the benefit of grease fittings and used red bearing grease. Those would be the best of both worlds I think unless you really want to race on twisty roads all the time.

@Toys4Life 3 жыл бұрын

What brand?

@robvas 3 ай бұрын

Lucas Marine grease is what I use @@Toys4Life

@patrickjohnson7801 3 жыл бұрын

That's what I want to do this weekend relube my bushings.

@Toys4Life 3 жыл бұрын

Squeaking pretty good?

@vice4134 2 жыл бұрын

Nice video, Kenneth. People, keep in mind that your current Fiero's rubber bushing are probably at least 15 to 35 years old. So, it's not firm like it used to be. So, replace it with new rubber bushings & you'd be surprised how firm they are. I see too often people switch to poly, thinking rubber bushings are terrible but they forgot to consider the fact that their rubber bushings are OLD. Most of us probably will never use the track for racing full time or try the track few times doesn't mean you should switch to poly. Nope!

@Toys4Life 2 жыл бұрын

Good points,. Agreed!

@SantNolo Жыл бұрын

im one of those suckers :( just made an uninformed buy of a prothane total kit for my AW11, oh well...

@mrmadunit3923 9 ай бұрын

i went polly about 20 or so on my 88 AW11 it was bearly noticable sound wise And there was an apriciable increse in the sensetivity of the car @@SantNolo

@just-me-where-ever-ek8kp Ай бұрын

This is by far the best advice for the majority of Street driven Cars. Right along with “ Why do you need Carbon Fibre Brake Brake Rotors ?”

@psychkosys Жыл бұрын

I replaced my dog bone with Rodney's solid mount bone. I drive a 2.5 so...you want to talk about vibrations! I replaced the trans mounts, sway bar, end links and control arms with red poly. She rattles like crazy but i love it

@videomaniac108 Жыл бұрын

I upgraded the stock anti roll bars on my 370Z with some stiffer Hotchkis sways that have polyurethane bushings. The U shackles for the bushings have zerk grease fittings and so I just shoot some polyurethane grease into them every other oil change, no squeaks after two years.

@MRBLACK947 3 жыл бұрын

Nice presentation Toys. You did a great job at giving the pros and cons.

@Toys4Life 3 жыл бұрын

Appreciate that Sir!

@pmodd Жыл бұрын

Good video, covers the issues with poly bushes nicely. I always avoided them for moving arms and favored press-in vulcanised rubber bushes. After going from a full set of rose-jointed arms to HardRace vulcanised rubber bushes (Nissan 180sx), the handling wasn't quite as crisp with the rubber, but it was decent. Meanwhile, NVH was massively improved. I found the same thing changing from poly rear subframe mounts to nismo vulcanised rubber bushes; no noticeable performance difference but my word the NVH was better with the hardened rubber. The biggest trap imo are polyurethane gearbox bushes for a RWD. The clutch kicks with the poly bush were great, there was no mechanical binding and the gear shift/release didn't stick, but I hated the noise the bush pumped into the cabin so much that I put a stock one back on 2 hours after installation at 10pm. Replaced the factory rubber bush with the Nismo hardened rubber version and it was 80% of the poly bush in terms of performance and only a minor increase in NVH. Personally, I don't think poly is worth it at all, unless it's a dedicated track car and you don't want to keep replacing heim joints. The main reason I think rubber gets ignored for performance is that people don't pay the extra for hardened versions, then they torque the arms with the car on stands. Rubber bushes won't function properly if they aren't torqued at static ride height, as deflection is a component of their function (i.e. internal deflection is what allows their rotation).

@NissansAndGibsons 10 ай бұрын

Beel looking for an honest answer to this exact question. I've just bought the full quiver of hardened rubber arms for my s13 sil because of the nvh of rose joints on it currently. Thanks for confirming my suspicion with real world experience.

@otpyrcralphpierre1742 4 ай бұрын

The instructions in the last paragraph will help a LOT of people who aren't familiar with doing this!

@garyvanremortel5218 2 сағат бұрын

Some polyurethane compounds are lower durometer than others so they can be made just as hard or soft as the OE rubber bushings. They are harder for better control as you said and always make sure you use the included silicone grease. They will stay consistent with age and not harden like OE rubber.

@bane349 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for making this video!

@Toys4Life 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the thanks! If it helps a few people out, it makes it worth it!

@markhammer9975 11 ай бұрын

I really appreciate this video, thank you so much.

@Toys4Life 10 ай бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

@jason_moonchild 8 ай бұрын

Old video, I know, but one thing i like to add. Some polyurethane bushing manufacturers have different choices of hardness to choose. Usually three from soft to hard on Durometer Hardness Scale A, or ShA for short. Scaling from 0 to 100, where 100 is hardest. For example: Light car, street use - pick a soft bushings. 75 ShA Heavier car, street use - pick mediums. 85 ShA Heavier car with occasional track day use - hard bushings. 90ShA Light car for track or race, pick medium or hard bushings. 85-90ShA. Usually I choose 75ShA bushing, because they give me the best compromise between stock rubber and polyurethane. By the way. I don't know what grease came with PowerFlex polyurethane bushings, but they don't squeak even after 8 years after installing them. Or they use some engineering magic to eliminate squeaking? Also, it depends what car you have. For example BMW e46 has so comfortable ride quality with stock bushings, i replaced all of them with Power Flex and they didn't make the car harsh and don't let too much road feedback to the wheel. And the car is still pretty quiet. But, never put polyurethane to gearbox or engine mounts, it ruins the quality of almost vibration free engine and gear knob. On the other hand, very lightweight Mazda MX-3 will go full "race-mode" when changing the bushings to polyurethane, or you have to find a manufacturer who make very soft ones for you.

@Toys4Life 8 ай бұрын

Thank you for the info and your experiences, much appreciated!

@jason_moonchild 8 ай бұрын

@@Toys4Life And I want to thank you, for your hard work and very informative videos. 🍻

@mustang4.657 3 ай бұрын

Your a good mechanic.

@rooh5825 Жыл бұрын

I went with the prothane entire suspension poly bushings kit for my SRT-4, and I've been incredibly happy with it, had them in for about 18 months now.

@Toys4Life Жыл бұрын

Curious, What state do you live in, and you drive it year round including wet weather? Glad you're working out for you!

@rooh5825 Жыл бұрын

@@Toys4Life My SRT4 is a garage queen these days. 85k miles on her, never driven in the rain anymore. The most water she sees is the car wash from time to time, and never the automatic, only the loving feel of the hand wash bays lol

@dogsbyfire 11 ай бұрын

On the opposite end of the performance spectrum, I put polyurethane bushings on my 98 Ford Ranger. Made a huge difference in handling. Really made the truck a joy to drive. No noticeable increase in NVH, probably because the baseline noise in the vehicle was so high anyway.

@AzongLee85 2 жыл бұрын

Good review!

@Toys4Life 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you sir!

@fa-ajn9881 3 жыл бұрын

Just found your channel because I watched your video about headers. Picked up a C5 for a great deal but it has long tube headers that scrape everywhere AND are THE cheapest new ones I could find ($250)!!! So obviously they are garbage and I have to decide if I'm going to spend the money anyway should I just get good long tubes or pay a lot to go back to stock :( ANYWAY great channel keep it up I bet soon you'll get more and more viewers as younger people start being able to afford nice cheap C5s. Also THANK YOU FOR MAKING PLAYLISTS ON YOUR CHANNEL FOR SPECIFIC VEHICLES AND SEPERATING EACH ONE BY APPEARANCE VS MAINTENANCE/PERFORMANCE!!!

@Toys4Life 3 жыл бұрын

Glad you found the channel and thanks for the kind words - much appreciated!

@tdtrecordsmusic 8 ай бұрын

yeah, I'm contemplating these. Thnx 4 sharing ur experience !! I bet tho, that the squeak is coming from that mystery grease that clearly dried up. Better use a lube that you know will last. One way I can tell is if it is already super old and still good. Like I've found stuff that my dad purchased 40 something years ago. Still good as new. That means its good stuff. Also, a trick I learned is to use silicone glue to seal up things I want the lube to stay inside. Like silicone window seal/aquarium glue. It comes off nice & easy if you want, but doesn't wear out/lasts forever. I think of it like a slippery gasket that will act like a grease once it gets rubbed a bit...

@Toys4Life 8 ай бұрын

Appreciate your comment, have to be careful though I'm not sure if a petroleum grease would eat the poly or not. I should do a long-term test on an old poly bushing???

@jasonhadley594 3 жыл бұрын

Yes the noise can get loud,but a world of difference in movement.

@Toys4Life 2 жыл бұрын

Especially if you are tracking it or accelerating rapidly to put those increased forces on it!

@sokphanithmao5523 10 ай бұрын

thak you you have save my life

@jamien9327 3 жыл бұрын

Nice video!

@Toys4Life 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks big Jay!

@Daniel-xc3ws 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you

@Toys4Life 2 жыл бұрын

Very welcome! Thanks for commenting!

@datwistyman 2 жыл бұрын

Cheers, definitely not going to buy the poly's for my Subaru outback, thanks for this video 👍

@Toys4Life 2 жыл бұрын

Glad to help

@solmazer9805 2 жыл бұрын

This is really informative- thanks for posting. As rubber absorbs, or deflects more, and polies don't; could polies cause metal fatigue at the mounts?

@Toys4Life 2 жыл бұрын

Unlikely IMO in a gm product. I have seen some really flimsy control arms on some 80's Mazda's that I would think it may be a possibility.

@gnfanatic9139 8 ай бұрын

You forgot to mention binding in certain situations. I got rid of all my poly in the arms and went del-alum, no more noise or binding. NVH is the same. I have poly swaybar mounts, body mounts and end links.

@marlon94124 Жыл бұрын

I had someone to replace my torque mount on my 2004 Mazda 6s because the original rubber wore out and I did research on polyurethane car parts. Very big difference having the polyurethane torque mount for long the part will last without the hassle of me worrying about any future wear. My car is equipped with the 5-speed manual transmission and the polyurethane torque mount has been on my car in still new condition for six years.

@Toys4Life Жыл бұрын

Did you notice much additional vibration with the poly for this application?

@marlon94124 Жыл бұрын

@@Toys4Life No.

@hydrophaintconcepts4675 3 жыл бұрын

The inner sleeve should be wrap in Teflon, and use a full synthetic wheel bearing grease. This will prevent the squeaky terrible sound for years.

@Toys4Life 3 жыл бұрын

Where did that come from?

@hydrophaintconcepts4675 3 жыл бұрын

@@Toys4Life it’s a trade secret. There are other videos on KZfaq that cover it. I stayed away from poly bushings just because of the terrible squeak until I found out about the Teflon trick. It works really well.

@kolesidisgiannis 3 жыл бұрын

@@hydrophaintconcepts4675 What about the use of bearing grease versus the Energy Suspension sticky stuff? Your opinion based on experience?

@hydrophaintconcepts4675 3 жыл бұрын

@@kolesidisgiannis I never used the energy suspension grease, since most of the forums I read their, bushings started to squeak bad within a year and sounded like a old rocking chair going down the road.

@killersixteenhokage 3 жыл бұрын

@@hydrophaintconcepts4675 ive been thinking the same but never had real confirmation about this ... ive always use the typical shell red grease for everything and found this white stuff pretty gross to Use on suspensiom

@MikeHammer1 Жыл бұрын

I put Prothane poly bushings everywhere even the engine cradle and front rear (my own design) sway bars in my 1986 1/2 Fiero GT about 8 years ago, still no squeaking, but the car is never driven in the rain or snow. The handling is way better for the swap, but then the old bushings had 150,000 miles on them. And burning the old bushings out was a PITA.

@Toys4Life Жыл бұрын

& smelly

@MikeHammer1 Жыл бұрын

@@Toys4Life Yup!

@BCole-bj4lv 9 ай бұрын

I just happened to see another video by a British fellow tell how he tightly wraps his sleeve with overlapping wraps of teflon tape plus the bushing itself and the ends. He said he never gets squeaks this way. He smears a little of that grease on first, wraps it, then adds more lube and installs.

@Toys4Life 9 ай бұрын

Interesting I've heard that a few times now in the comments here, must be some merit to it 🙂

@stevenbrown5695 Жыл бұрын

Do the bolt also excluding the threads.

@bryceerban947 3 жыл бұрын

Had poly on my GTP it was so loud didn't matter if they made noise and that W body needed everything it could to stiffen up.

@Toys4Life 2 жыл бұрын

Didn't know W bodys were so flimsy!

@ChinookBear 10 ай бұрын

@@Toys4Life They're not that terrible.

@YanDaOne_QC 5 ай бұрын

I filled the stock rubber lower torque mount of my Sentra 2.5 ser spec V with Lepage® Polyurethane construction adhesive in hope of getting it last for more than a year or two (after 3 replacements). It ended up adding a bit of stiffness. 4 years since I did it and the mount is still fine. Total cost: 5$. I'm about to replace the rear axle beam and will probably do the same with thoses bushings, just to try it.

@Toys4Life 5 ай бұрын

That's pretty interesting 🤔

@YanDaOne_QC 5 ай бұрын

@@Toys4Life drive.google.com/file/d/1NZFRL-oCh4dWMaPpzhJZLyhJJ2bT2Zd4/view?usp=drivesdk

@YanDaOne_QC 5 ай бұрын

@@Toys4Life Rear axle beam replacement on ice. "Canucks style". 🤷‍♂️🇨🇦

@mwdunn3 3 жыл бұрын

The hi tek word for the gooey stuff is POOKY. :)

@Toys4Life 3 жыл бұрын

Well ding dang it... I learned sy today! Thanks for that!!

@feg625 7 ай бұрын

There is an Australian company by the name of superpro. They have a lifetime warranty on their poly bushings against squeaks and other problems. They also claim they will never need maintenance “SuperPro bushings use a proprietary polyurethane mix that allows for the precise control of a poly bushing with very little impact on NVH. They also have internal geometry designed to retain grease, and a proprietary lube which prevents noise. This means they don't squeak, and require no maintenance (as long as you use the included grease). SuperPro offers a lifetime warranty against squeaking or any other failure on these bushings - even if you race the car, which is basically unheard of in the bushing world!”

@johnwatkins3883 Жыл бұрын

So I have a question, I can came across your video trying to see what these bushings were about and honestly they fit my bill but the havinbg to re lube them part is getting to me as im looking for rear subframe bushing, not control arms or anything of that sort. Im not trying to remove my rear subframe every two years so its that on all bushings made of this or do I not have to re lube sub frame bushings every two years?

@Toys4Life Жыл бұрын

Correct, since the subframe isn't moving, the bushings won't squeak.

@stevenbrown5695 Жыл бұрын

Piston skirt anti friction coating on bushing inserts.

@tracewallace23 23 күн бұрын

I suppose I'll be there one to say it, 🙄 Damn nice vice you got there boss 💪🏻🇺🇸😎

@kevinobrien3063 Күн бұрын

Note poly bush's are bad news in dusty conditions the dust sticks to the lube and makes a grinding paste and wears them out in no time.

@mikea5205 Жыл бұрын

You think it would be a good idea to use caliper pin grease? Maybe last longer?

@Toys4Life Жыл бұрын

Not sure, worst thing that could happen would be if it attacked the poly, but maybe it be okay.

@alexanderpartsch294 4 ай бұрын

If deflection of PU bushings is about 1/3 of rubber bushings forces will be a lot stronger on the chassis. Are the long term damages to be expected?

@Toys4Life 4 ай бұрын

You make a good point. That having been said, If you take a look at the suspension components of a Pontiac fiero compared to something like an '80s Mazda RX7, the fiero is so overbuilt that even with the added stress that the poly would inflict due to its lesser ability to dampen movements to the fiero chassis is negligible compared to how overbuilt it is in my opinion.

@Wors07 Жыл бұрын

Good choice using road america in your video. Donyou live near RA?

@Toys4Life Жыл бұрын

I'm about 5 hours away, I should visit that place. I've never been there, yet!!!

@billm83army 4 ай бұрын

I have a 1983 280ZX, I stick with stock rubber bushings. I don't do track driving (no turning left all day in an oval nonsense)

@ExtraFungus 2 жыл бұрын

I've tried to warn people about poly bushings only to have people online flip out and swear they use them and they are the greatest thing of all time. And really if you're happy living with the problems, great, just don't pretend it's a drop in upgrade that is in every way better. The real problem with poly is that on the A-arms it's acting as a bearing and it's not sealed or a great bearing, hence the reason you have to lube them up. There's little too no advantage to poly over a harder rubber compound which is available for some applications. Even better for rigidity would be actual bearings. I think where poly shines is anywhere they aren't expected to act as a bearing. Motor mounts are great, cradle mounts in poly are easier to get harder than rubber but cradle mounts on the Fiero are still better solid mounted.

@Toys4Life 2 жыл бұрын

Excellent analysis sir! Thanks for taking the time to chime in!

@chetlangford2144 7 ай бұрын

Wonder if hi temp marine grease would work better???

@Toys4Life 7 ай бұрын

Possibly, so long as it doesn't attack the Polly?

@1marcelfilms 5 ай бұрын

Can you try the PTFE tape lube trick?

@Toys4Life 5 ай бұрын

The bushing is designed to pivot between the inner sleeve and the bushing. Putting thin soft PTFE tape in there is oing to lead to the PTFE shredding up into little balls (I would think) and I would think it would also allow water to sit inside there and corrode the sleeve. I should test to be sure, but I don't have high faith that would work for a daily driver exposed to the elements over say 5 years....

@mritron7649 2 жыл бұрын

They say the black poly bushing option bis better because it gets it's black color from having graphite in it and that is a natural lubricant in the black bushing VS Red

@Toys4Life 2 жыл бұрын

That sounds plausible. Maybe I'll call energy suspension and see if they can validate that? If true, that would make it a no-brainer to go with black.

@mritron7649 2 жыл бұрын

@@Toys4Life let me know what they say than thanks. A guy that owns a 4 wheel drive shop used poly bushings alot in lifted trucks he would build and told me that so I'm curious to.

@SpottedOwl1979 Жыл бұрын

I have had black Energy Suspension bushings in a 1977 F150 4x4 for nearly 15 years and have never had a squeak. It is a daily driver/work truck. My track arm bushing is starting to have play in it again and I was browsing in search of tips. I think I am going to try mixing graphite and silicone when I replace the bushings next time.

@ryanscanlan9875 2 жыл бұрын

remember that only in abrasive climates. In aussie land we have no salt or heavy corosion (unless right next to sea) and polys last a very long time.

@Toys4Life 2 жыл бұрын

I'm guessing that helps. Even though I live in the Midwest of the United states, this car pretty much never gets driven in winter.

@ryanscanlan9875 2 жыл бұрын

@@Toys4Life maybe I stand corrected then, at least in my experience, nearly all my polls lasted 10yrs but I wasn’t racing and had low mileage.

@Toys4Life 2 жыл бұрын

I think water in general, is going to drastically reduce their effectiveness over time. We definitely get a lot of rain and humid days in the summers, that might contribute to it here.

@marrowdreign Жыл бұрын

OCD triggered: all that cleaning and prep and not a single rattle can of Rust-Oleum and black paint for the control arm? 🤷‍♂️

@vgssss 2 жыл бұрын

What about Poly with infused graphite?

@Toys4Life 2 жыл бұрын

Link?

@Epiphonech 11 ай бұрын

But where are your zerk fittings for re-greasing?

@Toys4Life 9 ай бұрын

If they gave you the fittings and the channel inside the poly to get to that middle sleeve, it might work but you might want to preheat the lube because it's pretty gooey sticky stuff even at room temp.

@gorehammer1 10 ай бұрын

So I recently put poly bushings in my rear suspension because it was totally clapped out and I couldn’t find rubber. I have the bushings for the front but I have not installed them and when I took my car for a test drive I find that it feels strange like my car doesn’t conform to bumps in the road. It’s not harsh but it almost feels like the rear wants to slide and when I hit a pot hole I swear that I get some air. Is this normal? I have no idea.

@Toys4Life 10 ай бұрын

I wouldn't think so.

@gnfanatic9139 8 ай бұрын

Thats called Binding. I am not sure what kind of vehicle you have but in certain instances poly is no good.

@gorehammer1 8 ай бұрын

@@gnfanatic9139 thanks, it ended up being an issue with alignment. I had to make a couple adjustments and I’m good now but I really appreciate the information

@1marcelfilms 5 ай бұрын

What if you want less noise and vibration than stock

@Toys4Life 5 ай бұрын

Rubber is going to be about the softest bushing material that will do the job I would think...

@doogeerugged89 Жыл бұрын

i did not know this. And her ei was about to take my 12yr old car and about to get rid of all the bushings... I guess now I'll just do a few bushings

@Toys4Life Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I would go rubber unless you got some that are under tremendous Force.

@moondoggie481 2 жыл бұрын

I heard Teflon tape eliminates squeaks but never tried it.

@Toys4Life 2 жыл бұрын

I have heard people say that too but - the grease also helps to keep water out and corrosion from forming. Replace it with teflon and it may be squeak free for a while but I would think it would allow water to come in and perform its unpleasant magic.... I just don't see it as a viable solution.

@C0R0NAH Жыл бұрын

you dont need to maintance "squeek" every year, if you lern to put around the sleeve teflon tape. Well at least it should got a chance, learned it from different channel when i am interested about to use it as well. You will find more if you start searching for teflon tape and the polyurethane bushings.

@Toys4Life Жыл бұрын

Honestly - it seems like a hack fix to me. I can see how you can wrap it around a sway bar and use the split bushing over that. I am not envisioning how y ou drive the sleeve into the control arm bushing without shearing off and leaving the teflon tape outside of the bushing. It is a pretty snug fit. LINK to vid of someone doing it?

@C0R0NAH Жыл бұрын

@@Toys4Life yeah i will find it for you today and send a link. He was abble to manage it with nece prepared tape around. There is a bit of skill to make it. He did nice and tight wrap around in one of layer.

@leifbolton643 3 жыл бұрын

Can I take a 3800 series 2 out of anything?

@Toys4Life 3 жыл бұрын

Pretty much.

@inspirational.videos. 7 ай бұрын

Where to buy those bushing?

@Toys4Life 7 ай бұрын

Summit racing.

@Remenschneider 8 ай бұрын

0:55 "Keeps suspension geometry as intended" - Bushing deflection has been a design parameter for suspensions since at least 30 years. It's called Elasto-kinematics, e.g. toe-in at the rear under braking is commonly used. You lose that with PU bushings, which can be detrimental to handling, even if the car feels "more tight" to drive. If you are having trouble with maintenance on PU bushings, try the teflon tape method!

@Toys4Life 8 ай бұрын

seems like the non stressed point would still be the same, the deflection (toe in under acceleration and toe out during braking would just move less in either direction vs rubber- no?

@Remenschneider 7 ай бұрын

@@Toys4Life Depends on how the bushing is designed. Take the rear trailing arm bushing on 90s Honda Civics for example: The Whiteline bushing is slotted in front and behind of the center rod, which allows the bushing to flex. If you go for a solid bushing (Energy Suspension and such), the required flex will be no longer there, and the bushing can even bind up leading to snap oversteer. In that case, the intended behavior of the bushing is "flex" - if you remove that, you are left with the kinematic toe-out under braking and get a very nervous rear end that you can't catch once it goes. If you happen to own the book "The Automotive Chassis: Engineering Principles" by Reimpell et al., there is a great description of that bushing on page 62.

@russelloppenheimer3970 4 ай бұрын

But that designed in deflection is with stock tires. Anyone going to track is going to be using tires much stickier than stock generating much higher deflection forces. Using something stiffer like poly means deflection closer to designed specs in that case. Even on street, most choosing poly will already be running tires wider and softer compound than stock design.

@nofyfb123 3 жыл бұрын

The following pertains to energysuspension bushings. There are a lot of issues with these bushings, some are not manufacturers' fault, others - are. And I am not talking about price - this is something the buyer at least knows in advance. 1. Their claim that all it takes is "some smoke from the bushing to separate the sleeves from rubber" is outright lie. It may be the case with jeep but certainly not with Toyota - you need to torch it for a long time to actually burn rubber off. 2. The fact that they don't provide sleeves with the bushings is simply ridiculous. Especially considering price. In fact, I would not mind paying extra so that I did not have to dicect the old bushings, and the first issue is minor compared to this one. It is pretty common for bolts/sleeves freeze in bushings so it's virtually impossible to separated them from inner bushing sleeves without damaging. It may not be an issue with jeeps and fords because their bushings are replaced on a regular basis but Toyota bushings last so long that it's practically unavoidable to face this. In my case, the truck is 17 yo with 230,000 miles, and the original bushings were still good. The only reason I had to replace them was installation of lift and JBA upper control arms that required alignment that couldn't be performed because - you guessed it - one bolt and one cam sleeve were frozen. After 17 years in the Midwest and N-E, is should not come as a surprise. This condition requires a hell of a lot of heating and pounding, pounding and heating, and then it's a real PITA to attach the [original] washers to most likely damaged bushing sleeves. 3. The last issue is design - there are no lubrication means. And don't tell me it's impossible - just look at JBA upper control arms. I installed grease fitting in control arm ears and drilled holes in the bushings to allow grease flow to inner sleeves. Hope it will work. Overall, bushing material is probably adequate but pure inexcusable greed that prevented the manufacturer from providing lower bushing sleeves and washers (even for extra $$) is beyond ridiculous. Bottom line: if your vehicle is 10+ yo and has spent that time in places where winter happens every year, expect MAJOR (BIGLY!) hassle installing these bushings. Or - MUCH BETTER OPTION - buy from another manufacture that does provide all necessary coponents and does not force to wash and reuse condoms because reusing bushing sleeves is just as ridiculous as reusing condoms.

@Toys4Life 3 жыл бұрын

Agreed. Only use these for a dry warm weather toy. What is the other manufacturer you speak of?

@nofyfb123 3 жыл бұрын

@@Toys4Life Toyota.

@Drunken_Hamster Жыл бұрын

So who makes GOOD aftermarket poly bushings in multiple hardnesses, then?

@nofyfb123 Жыл бұрын

@@Drunken_Hamster If I knew, I would've bought them.

@tanker242 2 жыл бұрын

Do you not use silicone paste as a lubricant? That's the proper lubricant for polyurethane suspension parts. I don't think silicone paste dries out if I'm not mistaken.

@Toys4Life 2 жыл бұрын

Yes, I believe so. I use energy suspensions poly lube which works great for about a year or three depending on conditions.

@MrGohardest 2 жыл бұрын

@@Toys4Life Even with using their lubricant, the bushings will start to squeak after a year or two? I can't find rubber bushings for my C5 and really don't want to deal with the squeaking!

@TheTopChopper 2 жыл бұрын

@@Toys4Life Energy suspensions default grease is silicone based, I've messaged them when I ran out of the lube doing my rear subframe bushings on my Silvia, they said that any Silicone based grease works just fine like theirs!, I used Brake parts silicone based lube and after 2-3 years no squeaks yet (No winter driving, Sunny Sunday type of car)

@Toys4Life 2 жыл бұрын

Warmth and minimal moisture seems to help for sure!

@monstertrucklt Жыл бұрын

You can buy poly bushings that are with center connected to the poly itself. You get best of both worlds, longevity of poly, maintenance free from rubber world.

@Toys4Life Жыл бұрын

Sounds interesting, link?

@johnjohnson7128 2 жыл бұрын

i had mines on 8 years no noise still

@Toys4Life 2 жыл бұрын

Wow, that's totally different than my experience. Do they ever see rain or snow, how many miles do you suppose you have on the car during that time.?

@dscary1837 2 ай бұрын

Wrap Teflon tape around the Bushing and metal sleeve along with that clear sticky grease and you shouldn't have squeaky bushings again EVER!!!

@kevinwest3689 2 жыл бұрын

I wish. I had watch this video before I ordered them today. Whamp wha🤷‍♂️

@Toys4Life 2 жыл бұрын

Sorry sir!

@kevinwest3689 2 жыл бұрын

@@Toys4Life hay thanks" no worries they let me cancel the order.

@jasonhadley594 3 жыл бұрын

I do at least the sway bar links

@Toys4Life 3 жыл бұрын

Agreed - especially if you add a rear SB as well to the 84-87 Fiero. They didn't come with one for some reason! The 88 did.

@CorvetteTrev Жыл бұрын

Delrin AF is self lubricanting, or for another thousand completely maintenance free you can just go monoball. Get some good shocks. Good for life. 0 maintenance

@Toys4Life Жыл бұрын

I think I would only use those if I was going to track the car as it's main use. As it is, my C5 is 99% Street.

@mrsemifixit Жыл бұрын

Do you notice less vibration from poly bushings over time or stays the same? Basically curious if they “break in” at all

@Toys4Life Жыл бұрын

I don't believe they break in.

@buzzedalldrink9131 7 ай бұрын

I drilled and added grease fittings to my lower A frame arms and grease the bushings with Lucas Red and Tacky lithium grease. Your bushing will last years longer. It was 10 years since install and its still better than any rubber bushing . Just don’t use petroleum grease. the little tube of silicone grease they give you is a joke. It won’t last long. If you grease the car regularly there is no need for the teflon tape trick.

@Hank520Tube 8 ай бұрын

Thanks for this video. Now I'm sure, I'll stick with rubber.

@Ruliiss Жыл бұрын

im going with polyurethane because im going to be putting my car on coilovers an slamming the shit out of it lol. though i am just doing it for the rear suspension on a 98 toyota XLS . i was trying to replace the trailing arms on it an the bolt had seized with the old bushing so i cut that shit an burnt the old bushing out ahah

@inoahmann7542 Жыл бұрын

Another trick to avoid squeaking is permatex ceramic brake grease (the purple stuff). It's not cheap, but it works.

@Toys4Life Жыл бұрын

How did somebody try that, interesting?

@newfie-dean5803 Жыл бұрын

I heard that if you wrap the bushing with a single layer of Teflon tape and the mounting surface where it mounts on sway bars, you will have no noise. You do that and then apply grease and multiple people report no squeaks a long time after. I think a good strategy would be to first treat the sway bar bushing contact points with a Teflon spray or even a ceramic coating. Then add the tape and the grease and I think if you do this you will have no future issues with noise.

@Toys4Life Жыл бұрын

That might work with sway bars, but I don't think the air ambushings, it's more of a press fit as opposed to an open up the bushing and slide it over this way bar fit.

@newfie-dean5803 Жыл бұрын

@@Toys4Life this guy has a great explanation on what to do: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qMqKZKiLyK2xg2Q.html

@just-me-where-ever-ek8kp Ай бұрын

I always wondered , why they didn’t put good old fashioned Grease Nipples in those things? Besides, if you wanna go real bad ass, go spherical ! FYI make sure you’ve got deep Pockets, very deeop Pockets LOL

@hen9852 2 ай бұрын

These are perfect only for subframes, not control arms.

@Iowa599 Ай бұрын

Get black poly, not red, its got graphite in it to prevent squeaks

@edwardstark8377 Жыл бұрын

Bro, use Formula 5 to grease these. You will never ever hear any squeak again. No teflon needed. Hope it helps

@Toys4Life Жыл бұрын

Pretty sure that is the "lube" they come with.

@edwardstark8377 Жыл бұрын

@@Toys4Life Absolutely not. The stock lube is sicilon based and it washes out really fast thats why people start getting squeak sounds after minor use. I've did my homework. People used different techniques to stop it like using teflon and stuff, but this method is the easiest and the most perfect one for long term use. I really hope i helped you and next time, give it a shot mate. You will thank me later :)

@Toys4Life Жыл бұрын

I appreciate your efforts! I'm going to go look I think I still have a small tube in my shop of what came in the box. I think it's the same stuff but I'll get back to you.

@calvinthedestroyer 3 жыл бұрын

To bad they can't install some Zerc heads on those bushings instead of taking them apart all the time.

@Toys4Life 3 жыл бұрын

Why they don't is beyond me. I need to look into that further. Would need a dedicated small grease gun for the special non petroleum grease but that is no biggie compared to the current re-lube procedure!!!

@MrGarycoww 2 жыл бұрын

I was under the impression these were fit and forget self lubricating

@Toys4Life 2 жыл бұрын

No sir. That would be the stock rubber style.

@DonHavjuan 2 жыл бұрын

Suspension is intended to MOVE, which is what rubber allows, and what poly does not. That's why cars come with rubber bushes.

@Toys4Life 2 жыл бұрын

I think cars come with rubber bushings for the majority of people who just want a soft quiet ride. Serious track people will definitely want something harder than rubber like poly or other material to keep the suspension geometry as it should be.

@Drunken_Hamster Жыл бұрын

You can't tell that his suspension still moves IN THE INTENDED MANNER ONLY perfectly normal? Damn, better get your eyes checked. The point of stiffer bushings (of any given material) is to prevent FLEX and DEFLECTION. AKA the unwanted movement that misaligns components and causes issues like excessive camber and toe in turns, or wheel hop on acceleration.

@russelloppenheimer3970 4 ай бұрын

Heard of solid metal bushings? Used in race cars. Zero deflection, but suspension still articulates. Think of a motorcycle chain. Its just a bunch of tiny metal bushings. Moving around a lot faster and more often than any suspension. Poly attempts to be middle ground between solid bushings that works by friction, and rubber bushings that work by stretching. The video does an excellent job describing how well they accomplish that, and the compromises involved.

@anarchistangler 11 ай бұрын

I don't reckon this is a very good review. Let me have a go, cause I use PU in every day drivers, and thank god the stuff became available. First, PU is much more cost effective and preserves ride quality. Rubber bushings are really expensive and deteriorate quickly. Especially on bad roads, and especially if you have a heavy car or truck. Anyone who changes their own bushings knows the exorbitant price of a bit of crap rubber from Mexico or China. PU bushings are cheaper in the first place - opften a quarter or a third of the cost - and last for ages. Converting to PU leaves SO MUCH MORE MONEY IN YOUR WALLET. Especially when you just buy the PU and use the original inserts and sleeves. Rubber bushings can crack straight up, especially if some guy has had them in his shop for ages. You know you are driving around with good bushings with the PU, even if you hit a pothole wanted to push your strut through the bonnet first day you put them in. They give you confidence. You can get different hardness too, for example from Shore 40 to Shore 80, so if you found the ones you installed make a rough ride you don't like, buy or make some softer ones. You are pulling your car apart to change bushings all the time anyway if you go with rubber, so the service interval for the PU is no hassle. You want to be pulling steering and suspension apart that often anyways to check everything is A1. The only downsides are that they are not available for all cars, and that you have to make your own sometimes; that the liquid form isn't something you want to be sucking the fumes off while you are working; and that parts will have to be modified in some cases because the busing is not bonded to the insert or sleeve to prevent lateral movement. A final advantage is that if you do make your own custom sleeves and press or weld them in, changing the bushings next time around requires a lot less effort because you only have to pop the soft part in and out, not press sleeves.

@Toys4Life 11 ай бұрын

Thanks for your input!

@CycloneCyd 10 ай бұрын

2:42 the need to maintain the bushes every year or two: thank you, THANK YOU, I'm so glad I found this video and you pointed this out. The 'hate' I got for saying much the same thing (here: kzfaq.infoUgkxKMmYnfDcpBFwkYXbc71b5KsXAoPoXs1f?si=j-tKXapC1RJxtc8f) - oh boy!

@mymodel6 Ай бұрын

So the only downside is noise, bought about by the fact that you didn't know about the PTFE tape trick that has been known about for decades...

@Toys4Life Ай бұрын

Yep, you're not the first one to bring up the PTFE tape trick. I may try it but I have serious doubts about how well it will hold up in real world daily driving.

@trentvlak 2 жыл бұрын

We just need a lube port to squeeze out the old grease with new grease in 30 seconds.

@johnwehunt4305 2 жыл бұрын

I believe it's possible on most applications to drill, tap and install a zerk fitting. There are some poly bushings that incorporate the grease fitting.

@joels6736 10 ай бұрын

Just install grease fittings and get a grease gun. Then you can grease them every year without taking apart the suspension.

@russelloppenheimer3970 4 ай бұрын

Except, then the grease just goes to wrong place. It needs to reach the inner sleeve. How will it get from grease fitting on outer sleeve, through the poly to inner sleeve?

@Toys4Life 4 ай бұрын

I was thinking the same thing sir. Only if you drilled a hole allowing it to have a channel, but even then, it's pretty tight between that inner sleeve and the poly.

@joels6736 4 ай бұрын

@@russelloppenheimer3970 You drill small holes in the poly bushing. It doesn't affect bushing integrity and the grease makes it to the inner sleeve. I did this on my C5 Z06 with Pfadt bushing kit and it 100% works. When I use the grease gun, yes some of the grease makes its way out the outer bushing along the control arm but much of it still gets to the inner sleeve. I have zero squeaking. Every spring I regrease along with reset the lash ojn my Howe ball joints. Alternately, you can cut the bushings in half done the middle and shave off a few mm's in the center creating a grease channel around the entire inner sleeve.