Post Office Inquiry: Ex-investigator insists wrongly convicted victim still guilty

Рет қаралды 140,773

3 ай бұрын

Raymond Grant has said he believes that William Quarm, who was wrongly convicted of stealing from a Post Office, is still guilty.
When the former investigator was asked if he thought Mr Quarm continued to be guilty of embezzlement, he said: “In this witness statement today? Yes”.
The counsel then pressed him on the issue and asked if he thought Mr Quarm remains guilty of the crime, despite the verdict being overturned, Mr Grant said: “Yes, I do. I still think Mr Quarm had a role to play in the loss of the money.”
William Quarm was convicted in 2010 of stealing from a Post Office he ran in North Uist, the Outer Hebrides.
#horizon #postoffice #politics
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Пікірлер: 464

@darrensutton5940 3 ай бұрын

I am impressed by his level of sheer arrogance and utter contempt for these proceedings.

@raphaelandrews3617 3 ай бұрын

YES, racism . IF all the victims were white and English he would have different reaction. He makes great claims about his charity work and how he is Christian but does not know the story of the Good Samaritan.

@user-jm2tw8zq9z 3 ай бұрын

This guy should be investigated for perjury harping on about his charity work that's a guilt complex ,dog

@ketmaniac 3 ай бұрын

@@raphaelandrews3617 I believe Mr Grant is Scottish, not English. I don't know whether that would change your beliefs about what he would or wouldn't have done.

@duncansteward4331 3 ай бұрын

He represents a poor example of Scotland.

@JustAlanJohn 3 ай бұрын

Calling himself a Christain what a load of rubbish total hogwash.

@duncan512 3 ай бұрын

Just an excuse to get out of appearing. Backfired when the sheriffs knocked on his door.

@MobiusVideo 3 ай бұрын

As we’ve seen time and time again: Christian ≠ good. People can do good and bad things regardless of their beliefs.

@chronicmasonic6669 16 күн бұрын

Look at Paula Vennels she's a Pastor..wtaf.. I always find the dodgy ones are dropping religious vibes

@travelalldestinytours 11 күн бұрын

They are all deceivers, and their actions will return to them; this is known as karma.

@josephpalla3294 3 ай бұрын

This man should be sued and thrown in jail

@karenmancina4170 3 ай бұрын

Yes

@josephkerrigan733 3 ай бұрын

Should be, but won't be. They'll all get away with it and it'll be tied up as "something we must learn from in the future".

@JacintasChromebook 3 ай бұрын

I dont know I think some of these lower down managers might end up in jail@@josephkerrigan733

@janhwillems10000 3 ай бұрын

Indeed, and that will cost us dearly. @@josephkerrigan733

@natalied9022 2 ай бұрын

So, Is the word "sorry" the new way to avoid a criminal conviction and jail time?.I doubt if the post master said Sorry. For something they didn't even do, if this wld habe meant no jail time or no fines and no lives being ruined?.

@user-hd8fj2mb5p 3 ай бұрын

I love that: 'now carol services and dog-walking are out of the way.' Brilliant!

@misterbonzoid5623 3 ай бұрын

He's brilliant isn't he?

@The_ZeroLine 3 ай бұрын

Best line ever.

@LottieTotty1 3 ай бұрын

I love the quick=witted snark from Mr Beer KC

@Richard500 3 ай бұрын

He's trying to highlight his so-called Christianity

@memyself717 Ай бұрын

That is god level shade

@otterspocket2826 3 ай бұрын

I can't help but feel that Mr Grant is the real victim in all of this. Having to write a brief statement about his part in sending innocent people to prison, ruining reputations and lives, must've put quite a damper on his Xmas. Oh, the humanity...

@carlosgregorius9419 3 ай бұрын

So true. I see it too. On another note I’d hate to be in his Christian care home when some teabags go missing

@loopwithers 3 ай бұрын

Indeed. Yet his weeping pleas about his upstanding religious morality do concern me. It appears that God doesn't particularly like him

@nicholasdickens2801 3 ай бұрын

😂 Lol

@grangerover500 11 күн бұрын

@@carlosgregorius9419 😆

@joerudnik9290 7 күн бұрын

Hilarious 😂!!

@patrickj4747 3 ай бұрын

I'd like to say I think Mr. Grant had a role in the theft of funds from the sub-postmasters and the subsequent cover up.

@reduk1999 3 ай бұрын

No shame or empathy for the real victims of injustice

@NigelCopy 3 ай бұрын

But he apologised at the end and seemed sincere.

@petergaskin1811 17 күн бұрын

@@NigelCopy Seemed.

@doghouseriley4732 3 ай бұрын

I think that this man should not be involved in providing any "help" to any vulnerable people. He appears to have little or no empathy for the common man. And no understanding in the role he played in this sorry state of affairs.

@jimmyccam 3 ай бұрын

Such arrogance should be rewarded with a brief spell of jail time, for contempt of court.

@canonlensesandcameras4425 3 ай бұрын

i disagree it needs to be a long stay.

@rockallmusic 3 ай бұрын

"I haven't had any time to review the case. I've never seen the evidential documents. I can't remember what happened 16 years ago. But I still want to make it a matter of public record that I think the Postmaster is guilty anyway."

@JoeRichardsWells 27 күн бұрын

Yes, this!

@johnclarke-vs9qe 26 күн бұрын

Well summed up, shocking!

@mikeellis4345 3 ай бұрын

He’s only sorry he’s been exposed and then forcibly held to account in this hearing.

@THEOUTCASTSCREATIVE Ай бұрын

agreed

@pillowcase2006 3 ай бұрын

He has zero law enforcement training, but he has the ego to presume he is able to deduce someone has committed an offence. People who are guilty are adjudicated innocent all the time and vice versa. It does not change the tapestry of reality. This man acted as judge jury and executioner and now is responsible for the safety and care of people with nothing... This doesnt sit well with me.

@Matman2099 3 ай бұрын

the arrogance of this man is astonishing!

@veritas5008 27 күн бұрын

Like the way the Kings Counsel said, "Perhaps we can now expand on that (limited statement) now that the dog walking and carol singing is over". Priceless wit. 👏

@geoffcurrie5508 3 ай бұрын

Does Mr. Grant think he himself should be in prison after what he has done? I do!!!

@user-hh8tf4tb9q 3 ай бұрын

What a total despicable person who went on to say that the PO had let them down and the postmaster/mistress but was happy to say earlier that he still believes the postmaster he investigated was still guilty, even over he was later cleared.

@rickhall9026 3 ай бұрын

What an arrogant weasel... Only complying with the court and inquiry because he was forced to

@iansmejkal8055 3 ай бұрын

He needs to be charged and put in jail!

@delboyd72 3 ай бұрын

Gross negligence and incompetence by the investigators

@abumstead1219 3 ай бұрын

This guy was negligent in his investigation. He failed in his responsibility to investigate ALL aspects of how the the shortages had occurred. As we now know there were glitches in the Horizon computer systems with the effect that ALL SPMs were wrongly convicted of taking money when in fact it was the glitches that “took” the money. All his evidence is tainted by his and the PO’s failure to investigate what in fact the PO and Fujitsu have known for many many years.

@alansharman3644 3 ай бұрын

of course he didnt do all aspects of the investigations if he had he would have lost his bonus payout

@garylake1676 3 ай бұрын

The recurring theme, is one of a very fractured organisation where just enough was the amount of effort expended by just about everyone who has been interviewed thus far

@neonwind 3 ай бұрын

Time for arrests of those involved in the cover up/deception.

@zetectic7968 3 ай бұрын

Self-serving personal statement. No remorse for his flawed actions to convict people.

@jimrt1738 3 ай бұрын

This man wants to be excused because he as to much on and he is a christian but did he give the postmasters the same dignity,NO.Shame on him.

@applepie8772 3 ай бұрын

They know no shame.

@emmaturner2558 3 ай бұрын

Imagine that - being forced to answer questions about your conduct that sent people to prison.

@thecritic81 3 ай бұрын

Poor poor man. Image he was awestruck when Sheriff's officers turned up at hid door

@duncan512 3 ай бұрын

We know from testimony how the sub-post office masters felt when POL knocked on their door to find "evidence"

@CJWFell 3 ай бұрын

I find it outrageous that a man found not guilty can still be said to be guilty. If Grant is still employed he should be sacked. Defamation of character claim. Make him bankrupt? Maybe he may change his mind.

@elgar104 3 ай бұрын

Yet another humble bragging Christian who seems to think simply labeling as religious will distract from his fundamental lack of ethics and morality. A lack that isn't just historical but manifests to this day in his misdirection of guilt up the chain and lack of respect for the court and his obligations to it.

@ianyoung7077 3 ай бұрын

His "giving his residents the dignity and respect they deserve" put the shivers up me. I hope someone does a swift inspection of his "Christian" care home.

@reddwarf666 3 ай бұрын

Classic... The conflicted statements: * I am convinced the person who is acquitted is still guilty * Yet I was lied to and did not have all the information And then the effort to paint himself as a 'victim' via fake emotions: * I want to take this time to offer my sympathies to all involved * This isn't easy for me and my family either The arrogance and sociopath tendencies are rife with this sorry excuse for a human being...

@The_ZeroLine 3 ай бұрын

Truly noxious.

@alansharman3644 3 ай бұрын

he seems to be part of a bigger group of sorry excuses So far from what ive watched there has only been one witness i can believe and thats the whistle blower. the rest can rot in jail

@PrestonLad78 3 ай бұрын

Check his bank 😬

@harrish6 3 ай бұрын

This guy starts off excusing himself from clearly his higher responsibilities by professing his dedication to his present involvement with his work with homeless people. Not forgetting to tell the enquiry of it's religious connections and his personal dedication to these people and the personal dignity they deserve. Listening to some of his answers to questions put to him by Mr Beer raises some question of hypocrisy as well as an air of victimhood

@fgrsimon 3 ай бұрын

Yeah and the dog ate his homework etc etc

@kevdeburgh 3 ай бұрын

This bloke is a complete wrong un......

@paulrichards6894 2 ай бұрын

but he loves jesus

@jonahdave5826 3 ай бұрын

First question, was the money actually lost? If the money didn't exist which seems to be mostly the case then no money has been lost. Two, how on earth could anyone know if there was a shortfall if the system was duplicating and miscounting transactions left, right, and center. Third and final question, why would a subpostmaster steal large amounts of money, keep going to work, delcaring their accounts every Wednesday, knowing that they're accountable for putting it back? None of this makes sense and should have been a huge red flag which it was but sadly was covered up.

@duncan512 3 ай бұрын

I think the same. The investigators just thought they were guilt regardless of any firm evidence.

@paulembleton1733 3 ай бұрын

A complex system and bugs are guaranteed, but I’ve seen more due diligence from non-profit managers. It’s very difficult to picture a case where this just happened by accident, dynamics, whatever.

@lewismcdonald3616 3 ай бұрын

The post office could never prove theft in any of the cases they brought to court they got there guilty pleas by threats of jail

@jon780249 Ай бұрын

All good points. I find it hard to understand how an investigation leading to a prosecution could be made without the money being missing or traceable. Given how many cases were brought without such evidence one would have imagined the question had to be asked. This just shows what a culture of thuggery existed in the post office. As an aside, that so many of these so called Christians were happy to cover all this up and even now are keen to exonerate themselves says much about the emptiness of their religious beliefs.

@JohnDavis-ed5sg 17 күн бұрын

Yes, that is to me the most extraordinary point, in no case was a stash of cash, a lump of gold, a big bank account, or a new Mercedes found to have mysteriously appeared. To any intelligent investigator that would cast doubt on these cases, but having seen the standard of the investigators and the management, intelligence is not a common attribute of these people - no wonder the Post Office has been in steep decline for years.

@sarahrichardson302 3 ай бұрын

The whole experience was so upsetting for Mr Grant, he’s the real victim apparently, never mind the people who lost their freedom and good name.

@kevinmcarthur1690 3 ай бұрын

People will only learn if there are significant consequences and that is jail.

@michaeltoohey1385 3 ай бұрын

Jail doesn't seem to be a happening thing any time soon.

@stechfreak 3 ай бұрын

I wonder how many more "devout" Christians are involved in this scandal

@user-jn7hv7jr9p 27 күн бұрын

Paula Vennels ?

@tricovthelite4234 3 ай бұрын

What an incredibly self serving person, says that he thinks that the convictions were correct and that the post master stole from the post office to try and justify his actions at the time , and then ends by saying that the post office 'mis led' the employees and most importantly 'obviously' himself as a way of shifting the blame now ,,,,, just an awful person..

@tonyknight9912 3 ай бұрын

Hmm, what have these people got in common ? Religion ! Same as the former Chief Exec.

@user-hg9eb6nu4y 3 ай бұрын

My role is to ensure that they get the level of respect and dignity they deserve 😂 based on his past track record and his thoughts that they are still guilty this guy doesn’t have a clue what is respect and dignity.

@Rick-mf3gh 3 ай бұрын

"I work with homeless people. They aren't homeless when I first meet them, but I make sure they become homeless."

@user-bp2ff7dp4s 3 ай бұрын

Ive got one word to describe Mr Grant - Hypocrite

@grahamlong6870 3 ай бұрын

Doing a Pontius Pilate in my opinion! Washing his hands over his own deeds, but still sending an innocent person to be crucified, and still saying that the postmaster was guilty. If I had any inclination to be religious, this guy would change my mind in an instant!

@petecypriot 3 ай бұрын

This contemptible individual has the arrogance to not only challenge the authority of this inquiry having to be to be forced into attending after almost not bothering to provide a witness staement, but still has the sheer temerity of claiming a man rightly aquitted of any wrongdoing by a court of law is still guilty. These people need to be convicted of contempt.

@digiman47 3 ай бұрын

What an arrogant indiviual. How dare he say he was reluctant to answer questions for the inquiry. So typical of Post Office management.

@XPLAlN 3 ай бұрын

He seems like the kind of investigator who knows that if the computer says money is missing, a crime has been committed, and he shouldn’t be distracted by irrelevances such as thousands of post masters complaining that the system was full of bugs. When on Earth are these people going to realise that this whole thing occurred, not because they were misled by this ‘post office’ entity, or Horizon, but because they were too effing arrogant. He is not a victim.

@fusionfan6883 3 ай бұрын

He betrays his arrogant and cruel character, which no doubt he applied with full force to his persecution of innocent postmasters. No genuine remorse, no empathy, no personal responsibility, just deflection and self pity. And trying to excuse his dismissive attitude to the enquiry by claiming his valuable time was taken up with Christian endeavours just proves the old maxim, there is nothing more cruel than Christian love. What an horrible excuse for a human being.

@philipmoss6188 3 ай бұрын

Put Grant in jail....lies upon lies upon lies

@LukVik 3 ай бұрын

This man should be in jail!!!

@karenmancina4170 3 ай бұрын

Yes

@tjfSIM 3 ай бұрын

This, right here, is the embodiment of the arrogance and malevolence that's been allowed to fester within the post office. This man is a disgrace on every possible level.

@AndrewMcCaffertyXerxes 3 ай бұрын

Why did he keep saying it was a Christian organisation? How is that in any way significant? A man died before he could clear his name, and Mr Grant quite simply couldn't be arsed to do the work necessary.

@gubulgaria5416 3 ай бұрын

Dude seems to be saying that it's only a short statement because he was forced to make a statement. In other words, they should be lucky that he even did that.

@mikeellis4345 3 ай бұрын

The arrogant gall of that man

@patrickmckay8444 3 ай бұрын

Another “ not me gov” defence 😊

@johnnysimpson5385 3 ай бұрын

Shocking

@imo1751 3 ай бұрын

He made a statement at the end saying the outcome of the enquiry, the inquiry hasn't reached its outcome yet.

@usernamename2978 3 ай бұрын

How long before "I was just following orders"? We heard that in the 1940s.

@jolewis-brown6608 3 ай бұрын

The calibre of the investigators says a lot …

@arthurhodgkinson8599 3 ай бұрын

All these people involved in this scandal should be jailed

@karenhoward2394 3 ай бұрын

I reckon the Salvation Army donations are going to decrease significantly. I would not give a penny which might go into this man's pocket. What a complete excusefor z human being.

@The_ZeroLine 3 ай бұрын

He was about to say “the ultimate responsibility belongs with the Post Office” and then gauged it wouldn’t be smart.

@geeky_gunner 3 ай бұрын

This man is vile.

@dianacarroll8860 3 ай бұрын

Just "Wow". I'm struggling to find the words for the "poor me" and arrogance on display here. I so hope that his carol services went well.

@ethanstapley7018 3 ай бұрын

He showing disdain at the idea he has to turn up with threat of legal repercussions if he didn't but that's all he did in his job. Put pressure on people to explain their actions under threat of legal repercussions.

@user-oe9be6ch5k 3 ай бұрын

pulling out the I'M a good Christian card. FFS this guy is pure evil

@trevorhart545 2 ай бұрын

Q. Have the Post Office put up a HONEST person yet because I have not seen one? All Bonus Payments to these criminals at the Post Office and any bonus from 2008 onwards should be recovered. Why, it was obtained by Fraud.

@Joybuzzard 3 ай бұрын

He's scared they're going to make him pay back the bonuses he got for falsely accusing people. He willfully ignored any evidence that the software wasn't working.

@soccerpractice0105 28 күн бұрын

Poor man. He's so upset because people questioned him. Imagine what would happen if he were thrown prison for nothing.

@aprilfox1057 3 ай бұрын

A very good example of the mind set of The PO senior staff. Appalling attitude.

@saxdearing3395 Ай бұрын

Contempt, complete contempt towards him and he towards the enquirey.

@Mkbshg8 3 ай бұрын

If he really is running a homeless shelter then I doubt he's doing it out of tthe goodness of his heart, just doesn't seem that sort of chap. So, what is his true motivation?

@acm1137 3 ай бұрын

Vulnerable sphincters.

@The_ZeroLine 3 ай бұрын

@@acm1137lmao. And I bet that’s actually it.

@SuperNova-py1ec 3 ай бұрын

@@acm1137😂. So wrong…😂

@MrPinkStrat Ай бұрын

HE is everything about The Post Office's Attitude & Exactly WHY This Enquiry is Necessary

@diane4488 3 ай бұрын

From all the investigations I've watched, so far, it seems all the staff were very poorly trained, didn't understand the law, shirked their responsibilities, were, and still are, prepared to tow the party line, had very low morals, and no respect for honesty and truth. Also no conscience regarding the pain and suffering they were personally causing. I would guess that the Post Office probably terminated employment contracts for anyone who had higher intellect and morality, or who even suggested that something was blatantly wrong. All those I've watched, still cannot see, understand, or wish to admit that their working practices were either naive, or corrupt.

@Mike_5 3 ай бұрын

Vennells, Jenkins and now Grant all very fine upstanding members of their local communities and Churches but their time will come ...

@alecmelvin4608 3 ай бұрын

Were this investigators trained from the Gestapo prosecution Codebook? The fact that their houses, bedroom drawers , 5:47 cars and bank accounts were forcibly searched before any charges were laid makes one wonder.

@jessicarabbit1138 3 ай бұрын

Basically he cares NOT about his wrongdoings. A Christian that goes to church to pray for himself, not others!

@pfella1878 3 ай бұрын

yet at the end apologises and cries as if hes the victim

@lorrainecreighton5690 Ай бұрын

Crocodile tears

@memyself717 Ай бұрын

People like that always do.

@ajs41 3 ай бұрын

Could he have been sued for libel if Mr Quarm was still alive?

@DavidJohnson-yg8qm 3 ай бұрын

An expert investigator giving evidence and he cannot remember such important details says a lot. Not really a Christian in my mind. If he is innocent then he now knows how the postmasters feel. I do think however he is not, just as he thinks the postmasters are not, Then he makes a personal statement saying he is sorry. What is he sorry for if he still thinks the postmasters are guilty?

@johnwilson6707 3 ай бұрын

where ever he is working they want to get rid of him

@paulembleton1733 3 ай бұрын

Seems clear that PO management are responsible and criminal charges necessary or it’s further undermining the law.

@mikejduk 2 ай бұрын

So, he feels enough time has passed for him to be unclear of exactly what transpired 16 years ago but today, he remains convinced of this person's guilt. Like all the investigators in this callous miscarriage of Justice, none of them are prepared to admit their own guilt! Every one of them needs to receive the same punishment that was handed out or caused to the victims. Bankruptcy, Loss of business, Loss of home, Marriage breakdown, Loss of freedom (Prison). As a 'so called' Christian!!!! This man should know, 'What he sows he can expect to reap'.

@alanforrester1401 3 ай бұрын

In answer to the question about an "otherwise dishonest" deceased, this witness defamed ( but legally that has no status). Nevertheless, he should NEVER have defamed the former postmaster .......it only makes witness look and sound vindictive and arrogant.

@xinma6034 3 ай бұрын

Very very very guilty so guilty very super guilty no good no good

@brianoneill350 17 күн бұрын

A very enlightening and revealing picture of the latent aggressive behaviour of this individual. Any investigator worth his salt would and should have known that there were issues with the system. Blaming everyone else and had to be compelled to attend. Says it all really

@sellesportico 29 күн бұрын

Failure to impartially investigate. Would like to see a job description for A POL Investigator

@Busflower1 3 ай бұрын

First person directly involved I’ve heard say sorry! But still not willing to take responsibility. Shame!!

@peterhansen5685 2 ай бұрын

And i thought that in new Zealand we were corrupt,but this is another level all together,so no wonder the world is in going to the pack. This guy is unbelievable.

@ContentJapaneseMaples-gk8ji 3 ай бұрын

Heard the personal statement. Oh dear, how sad, never mind !

@dwcoolit 3 ай бұрын

What a .....C U next Tuesday !!!

@HarryHewitt-lh8xx 2 ай бұрын

This guy should be awarded an OBE…. He’s such a valued member of society. Ok, I’m just practicing my sarcasm.

@howardspice7150 3 ай бұрын

He wants sympathy???

@suzilouden5964 3 ай бұрын

He, like the Scottish Tosser yesterday, is a heartless pos!!

@johnbryant6572 3 ай бұрын

How is this guy practising law.working as a unqualified legal expert.with no legal qualifications never been to university.

@robmule4647 3 ай бұрын

Same with magistrate judges, no law qualifications or experience required.

@pauladealmeida9791 3 ай бұрын

"Let's see whether we can improve on it today now that carol services and dog walking is out of the way"😂😂😂😂

@adambutterworth6455 3 ай бұрын

Arrogant sod

@wedwardes 3 ай бұрын

There has been nothing released on the precise nature of the Horizon errors. If the errors were random then 600+ postmasters would have received windfall profits. Have these been investigated and clawed back? Unlikely as that would have amounted to an admission of the errors leading to the losses.

@lewismcdonald3616 3 ай бұрын

What a horrible person

@keats6431 8 күн бұрын

This is all about trying to win sympathy for himself, not about the victims. I laughed out loud at 3:26 - loved the sarcasm of the KC.

@Ray-ed5ew 3 ай бұрын

Straight to jail for this one

@patrickward8543 16 күн бұрын

It boggles the mind that in all the cases of these postmasters that were tried and convicted, or accepted plea deals under threats of jail, not one investigator thought to ascertain, " where is the money?". Some of these sums generated by the fallible Horizon system were staggering, in the hundreds of thousands in some cases. If that were an actual tangible loss, where was it? Where was the extravagant lifestyles, the new cars, the paid-off mortgages, the offshore bank accounts and why, all of a sudden, when previously, cases of postmasters with their hands in the till were few and far between, was there a sudden epidemic of alleged fraud and theft when the Horizon system was rolled out and why didn't anyone think to question the timing? It just beggars belief that this was allowed to happen.