What an awesome summary. I might pin this comment :-)

This man came out of nowhere and just translated everything in a easy way, lol @@greatscottlab

Nice

AI generated, you should try it scott!@@greatscottlab

​@@eugeneputin1858what?

Good to know. Thanks for the feedback :-)

@@greatscottlab The first time my wife and I installed panels on our roof, we use almost this method. The beginning of the roof wasn't super high (3m). The ladder (single straight piece) was laying at about 45°, my wife would put the panels flat on the ladder, I would pull them up with a rope while she would make sure they don't go side ways. Once on the roof, for the time I needed to secure them, she was on the other side of the house, on the ground, with the same rope. Just pulling slighly on it to "block" them. I had a little piece of scrap metal bend to make a hook to grab the panel at the end of the rope. I hope I explained it well enough.

Yep just take up the slack

Normally i use scaffolding. For small number of panels or if scaffolding is not possible you can use a handle with suction cups for glass and just climb the ladder with the panel.

It certainly is fun :-)

@@greatscottlab yes I can tell after seeing everything you've installed so far.

Yea

Certainly when you are paid to promote such super expensive products.. Have you seen what they charge for a Serial cable??

@@tarakivu8861 i literally cannot afford that TBH. It's just a daydream.

Happy to help :-)

take a look at some video's from Harold Halewijn. He explains a lot (in dutch) and his company places Victron installations (hetslimmehuis)

Here in the US, we also have a buyback system.

Same here.. the essent guys were pushing us with the salding and they told it won't be put off. I will go for the LiFePO4 back up system like his! Houdoe!

Was also looking into a this system. Now that energy companies hate people with solar panels here in the netherlands. Was reading the victron catalogue for system ideas but Scott made the base plan already for me.

Thanks for confirming this :-)

Why do the tile seams line up? doesn't that allow for leaks. Just curious, I don't know anything about the tiles.

They ovelrap and hold each other in place@@tiltedbrim83

When you say it pays itself off in 5 years, you mean if everything goes perfectly. What if you get hail, parts of the system blow out, etc. then it becomes a nuisance. Power from the grid probably never will be more expensive than any other source.

@@orangeflavoredmf After a month of running on generators after a pair of hurricanes hit a few years ago, I resolved to never go through that again. I was driving over all creation looking for gas, changing oil every 100 hours and resetting the breakers when clueless family members overloaded things. I just wanted to keep my grandmother alive with her o2 generator, refrigerated meds, and air conditioning. All that to say, I will lose power again, and the spice must flow... 15 days without power and I'll be at break even. Odds say that'll happen before I have a major equipment loss. There is no one super expensive component. I can take down all my panels by myself in about 6 hours, and with help, about 2. Solar is way, WAY cheaper than gasoline or even propane. I've never seen hail bad enough to damage my solar panels where I live, but then again I've never seen a solid month of 106F+ temperatures before last month so... who knows and fingers crossed.

@@orangeflavoredmf For these sorts of systems, all the costs are front-loaded. Once the system is running properly you are basically done and your break-even calculation on cost (already spent so you know what it was)... is now guaranteed. In anycase, if it is DIY it will definitely break-even in a reasonable period of time. If it is professionally installed it may take a lot longer to break-even because professional installs are about twice the expense. The other take-away for people doing DIY systems like 7901, and myself, and others making postings about their systems, is that small DIY hobby systems inevitably turn into large not-so-hobby systems. So it is a really good idea to design the system such that it can be scaled-up piecemeal without having to replace any equipment already purchased.

@@orangeflavoredmf Solar panels are actually _really_ resistant to hail. If something blows out after five years then you get it repaired under warranty. It may be a bit of a nuisance to handle claims but it won't significantly affect your payback period.

@@eDoc2020 You guys might be partially right, I heard Nick Rochefort talking about selling a house with not diy solar on it.

We have Leviton and Span panels

How though? Those panels are bigger for less circuit capacity (neglecting voltage differences), more time consuming to wire, and easier to mess up. In the US/Canada we use those kind of panels in industrial all time, because they are more modular, allowing things like those power meters to be intsalled easily, or relays and PLCs, but he could have easily installed it in a sub box like the surge protector, heck even put it in the surge protector box. There is a reason in industrial facilities we still have both these style of panels and typical NA panels. Because if all you need is power the NA style panels are super cheap, compact, and easy to wire.

Living in a country that uses DIN mount breakers, and having seen more videos about US electrical breakers than I have any right to have, it occurs to me that this might be a deliberate choice - DIN mount systems are more customisable, which means more ways to get it wrong. Not a big deal in countries where you need training to install them anyway, but in the US as far as I'm aware any rando is allowed to install their own mains wiring, so the more idiot proof setup with only one way to do things is probably a good thing.

@@bosstowndynamics5488 The US is 50 countries and over 3,000 local counties in a trenchcoat, so I can't speak for all of them, but it's generally required that you need to get a permit from the local municipality before beginning electrical work that involves running new circuits, after which it may need to be inspected to confirm it meets the local and national electrical safety codes before being energized. I'm sure there are many folks that don't follow the law, but you will find those people everywhere. If your home burns down from an electrical hazard of your own creation, I wouldn't expect the insurance company to be OK with it, so it's worth doing it the legal way.

@@jaymzx0 That's still very different from needing an electrician to actually do the installing though - not all aspects of an install are going to be immediately apparent on an inspection (eg are the wire nuts actually done up properly), and because it's expected that amateurs can do the install there's a much smaller gap between that and deciding to go rogue

AFAIK, in Germany you are basically allowed to do all circuitry in your home yourself. Only the connection to a city grid should be done by an electrician. I have recently redone my distribution box (main purpose was to add the RCD breaker) and I first time taking a plastic cover off I was in shock seeing how "a professional electrician" did it before. It was a cable salad... and some breakers were from different companies, but still connected with a rail, that barely fit different breakers. Disgusting and dangerous. So I just watched several youtube videos and did everything myself. costed me 70 Euros probably for new breakers and the RCD. Not a high-tech, right? Cables, their right positions and total understanding of 3 phases current. As a physicist myself, I doubt that sort of "a professional" could do better then me.

Here in Brazil, the North American standard was mainly used until the 1980's. After that, new installations began to move towards European standards. Nowadays most new houses will have breaker panels like the one in this video, with all the stuff mounted over DIN rails.

Maybe with a future video I can do this. Was super hard to get everything done for this video in 2 weeks. Was really running out of time.

Well considering the Victron MultiPlus-II @8:18 ALONE is $3000., Its not gonna be cheap.

Those LiFePO4 batteries are $350 each (with tax) - so, thats another $1400

@@greatscottlab We dont need to know your cost but rather the general market price of the components would be good to know.

Awesome. Happy to hear it :-)

Take that thing out of your mouth, who knows where it's been!

I was thinking the same, it wont go boom but it will stop working in the future due to a lack of balancing.

Guess each bank has its BMS inside, that's why he shouldn't connect them in series. Correct me if I'm wrong?

These batteries are designed to be daisy chained up to 4S maximum. I have been doing it for over 1 year will no problem

Yep. Said that at the end as well. Always check back with your grid provider.

@@greatscottlab You should put a very very big warning in the front of the video as it is not a minor "note" but a series safety and legal problem if the people seeing the video without understanding what they do

In Poland u need permission to install any back feed system and get 2 way meter, also auto disconnect if grid isn't live (eg.when they connect new clients on your street or maintenance). Also u back feed 23W with 230V, but u need remember transformers work both ways. That's still 23W but when u put that in version 1kV or 10kV hurt a lot.

@@greatscottlab You can arrange the topology in a way that never backfeeds (my mainline comment describes how)... and in fact, in a way that isn't even grid-tied and does not require permission from the utility at all.

Glad it was helpful!

The victron multiplus-ii has an internal clamp, as well as options to add more

If in the UK you cant mix data and power in the same conduit how do Doncaster cables do it legally in their evultra cable?

That's what the microinverter does.

The microinverter has anti islanding protection built in

@@metrikmechanik Jeah, but the Victron inverter doesn't care as long there's juice in the batteries, I'm affraid.

@@dusinnhht Are you sure it's not a grid-tied inverter, which it is in this instance and they need to detect mains power or they shut down. Not to mention, if that little inverter did try to backfeed the neighborhood it doesn't have enough ass to do it and will trip itself off or the 50A breaker will trip. Unless the outage is just one or two houses, but yes generally it is still a bad idea to just plug in random inverters and backfeed through them. But, the good thing is most outlets and associated breakers couldn't actually handle the load anyway.

Don't tempt me

I'd be surprised if his inverter can't do so already, I know of a few Chinese(not ethnically, just made in China) inverters that can be programmed to charge the batteries from the grid with a great deal of flexibility and freedom.

@@wyattutz There are hybrid inverters, inverter-chargers, and just plain old inverters. Hybrid inverters generally have everything. Solar inputs, battery connectors, built-in charger, AC outputs, and usually also AC inputs (generator or grid). Some have three sets of AC connections. Generator, Grid, AC out. They also usually integrate necessary breakers (but battery cabling still needs appropriate fusing)... and can greatly simplify wiring. But at a price. Inverter-chargers have AC input, AC output, and battery connections with a built-in charger and inverter but no solar inputs and generally very little in the way of protective breakers. Normal inverters are just inverters. DC in, AC out.

Generally speaking the best way to handle load support from the grid is to buy a battery charger that has a "power supply" mode. You can then simply set the output voltage to the mostly-empty SOC voltage of the battery so the charger provides load-support up to its rated amperage when the battery gets low. That is, the charger would NOT charge the battery, it would simply provide load support. That way you aren't wasting grid consumption unnecessarily. This mechanism usually has all the desired characteristics. The solar will power the equipment and charge the battery during the day. When night falls, the inverter will run from the battery. This will usually last all the way through the utility's peak pricing period. When the battery becomes depleted, typically much later in the evening, like 10pm or midnight, the charger will step in and start providing load support. Usually the charger's current ramp takes a few hours to go from 0A to full support of the load, because as the charger takes load away from the battery, the battery voltage actually recovers a bit. So the battery will continue to supply most of the load at the beginning and slowly ramp up from there, usually taking a few hours as the battery supports less and less load before the charger is supporting the full load. This does have to be a battery charger, such as a Victron battery charger, that has a "power supply mode". It cannot be a normal DC power supply because normal DC power supplies do not generally have sufficient reverse-voltage tolerance on their outputs. A charger does. That is, if you unplug a normal power supply from the grid or turn it off, there is now reverse voltage (the battery voltage) on its outputs verses the 0V on its inputs. This can burn out a normal power supply. Battery chargers are designed for this condition and don't have a problem with reverse voltage.

Glad I could help :-)

I think his issue is there is no smart meter for the utility company to measure his feed in.

​​@@Alan.livingstonexactly, gernany is years behind in smart meter implementation, so the general conditions domestic customer experiences are not very optimal and workarounds as this are done.

We have the same in australia, they buy the electricity off us, but charge us more per kw than they pay us for it if we use from the grid.. its called a grid tie inverter..

There is a disconnect switch in the MultiPlus 2

And that part should be checked regularly, u don't want backfeed if grid is dead.

@@mateuszzimon8216 The micro-inverters will shut-down on their own, even if the MultiPlus doesn't disconnect the grid. Microinverters do not try to run the grid. Basically this is governed by the UL1741 and UL1741SA standards.

@@junkerzn7312 yes, but u can get certified device and by neglecting u can hurt someone. That's why RCDs have test button and text test once a year. It's like "not used muscle disappear"

Was it 500$ total?

@@killua_148 Yes, full disclosure the batteries were salvaged. The 230W panels were $90ea, 60a controller $50, cables were about $30, the smart shunt was only $12

Can you elaborate? I have a 20-Amp rackmount APC UPS, just replaced the internal batteries, and was thinking about exactly this. Where’d you go for used panels? I’m in Los Angeles btw, plenty of unused daylight.

@@G_handle I bet there's a ton of used panels in your area, I've seen some killer deals on Facebook marketplace. I ran cables from the rack mount 900W sinewave UPS to 3 100ah batteries which is undersized but I run a window AC in the afternoon.

One of the really bright spots on people doing DIY systems is being able to cobble together something like that on the cheap. Using lead-acid does require some care, though. Actually a lot of care for people not used to dealing with lead-acid. Even though LiFePO4 is a significant expense over lead-acid, it is usually worth the price. No outgassing, huge cycle life, no maintenance, no memory, and partial cycling does not cause extra wear. As an alternative, there are tons of "power stations" on the market. For example, a small one with a UPS function would be something like the ECOFLOW River 2 (256Wh, LiFePO4 battery), with UPS function, 300W output (600W surge), and solar MPPT input.. Power stations require virtually no work to set up with a few solar panels. Brands like ECOFLOW, Bluetti, Oukitel, and others. Quite generic stuff these days.

Total cost. Maybe around 4500€. But you will have to add around 600€ more for maybe 1.6kW solar more and MPPT charger. Then this system could pay for itself in maybe 5 to 15 years depending on electricity prices. But truth be told, for me this is not all about ROI on such a system. I just love solar and creating my own power :-)

@@greatscottlab great attitude!

The MultiPlus 2 has a disconnection relay that disconnects from the grid if the power goes down. Prevents this.

Pretty much every on-grid PV inverter has anti-islanding protection and will de-energize its AC output once there's no feedback from the grid.

For the millionth time batteries on the floor do not discharge. Second of all those are LiFe with an integrated BMS, there's zero fire risk.

True

Haha thanks for the feedback :-)

The whole house inverter should be able to create an a/c supply when the mains are not active, so grid ties should function. A Genetry Solar Inverter will sink extra power provided by the grid ties on the A/C outs to batteries, and will turn off the grid tie inverters once the batteries are full (without all those other sensors required by this setup.) I am finishing the construction of my system, to try to go off-grid, with a grid backup on my whole house inverter.

@@DavidHalko Thank you for the information, solar may be a bit pricy, but the independence it provides is satisfying.

The whole house inverter takes care of this problem. Properly wired: 1. if the panels/micro-inverters and/or batteries are enough, they supply the A/C to the home 2. if the panels/micro-inverters supply too much power, extra power is sent to the batteries via the whole house inverter 3. if the panels/micro-inverters supply too much power, if the batteries are full, then the whole house inverter shuts off the micro-inverter, and supplies energy to the home. 4. If the panels & micro-inverter power is too little, if the battery is too little, then the whole house inverter enables the A/C mains.

Solar doesn't have to be expensive. Common sense goes a long way. Of course that doesn't net $1000's of dollars of equipment from a major commercial enterprise on a million dollar+ youtube account.

lieber ein Angshase als klein, schwarz und hässlich

@@Henry-sv3wv Ja genau, ich hab bei Abnahmen und ersten Tests auch immer eine Hand in der Hosentasche XD