Ray Tracing

Рет қаралды 23,653

Күн бұрын

Is ray tracing worth it? Should you use ray tracing on or off? When will ray tracing actually matter?
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Chapters:
0:00 Intro
0:25 Just treat it like any other graphics setting
3:32 What about with DLSS?
7:05 So when will Ray Tracing actually make sense for PC gamers?
8:32 Ray tracing is the future- but when is the future?
10:50 In summary

Пікірлер: 314

@tw1tch09 2 жыл бұрын

But Dan, what about my false sense of validation of graphics superiority?

@TTx04xCOBRA Жыл бұрын

youre poor

@InimicusSolitus 2 жыл бұрын

Ray tracing is good for static images or slow game play. But in fast action, it's a waste. You aren't looking at the reflections and "amazing" shadows. You are looking at movement.

@MegaCygnusX1 2 жыл бұрын

Bang on. RT is here to stay simply due to the development time it will save. Also agreed on your timescale, in a generation or two RT will be a toggle much the same as AA is today, or even standard, and consoles will determine when that time arrives. The wildcard here is UE5, which is already doing amazing and relatively performant things with RT on consoles right now. That Matrix demo is frankly amazing.

@gorjy9610 2 жыл бұрын

It save it only if you skip doing everything else. Some of them do that even today, sure. Just look at cyberpunk. But most of them are aware of hardware that majority of gamers have and still need to do everything like there is no raytracing available at all. And no, one more generation isn't enough to change that, not in this market. But yes, it'll stay. I just hope that with time implementation will become better. For now is almost not noticeable or just stupid (making everything highly reflective). UE5 use RT smart, only where needed to make a difference and everything else is done in software.

@itsaUSBline 2 жыл бұрын

@@gorjy9610 3000 series cards can do RT just fine without loss of FPS with DLSS 2.0, and the picture is virtually indistinguishable with 2.0. But yeah, it'll become standard sooner or later anyway as hardware continues to improve and become more available to the majority of users.

@imadecoy. 2 жыл бұрын

@@itsaUSBline They can do a very limited number of effects. There is no fully ray traced game that stands up to AAA standards. The "no loss of fps" and "virtually indistinguishable" are complete bullshit claims for most games with the settings maxed already. Wait until they actually make RT worth something and you see how bad it runs.

@nataflet 2 жыл бұрын

SLI / Crossfire was here to stay, for at least 15 years. Never used it. If something exists, it doesn't mean you need to use it. Like cocaine.

@pistachiobandanos904 2 жыл бұрын

I played the demo and its not that amazing. If you pay attention you can see that many glass surfaces use traditional style reflections until you see them from a certain angle or distance and then they switch to RT reflections.

@frankvinti925 2 жыл бұрын

I will go down to high or even medium with no Ray Tracing and also will definitively use DLSS or FSR on my 3080 to achieve between 90 and 120 fps at 4k it's the sweet spot for me, feels good and still looks good.

@LarsH0NEYtoast 2 жыл бұрын

Would it be better to do Native 1440P instead of 4k with DLSS? Still looks clean and probably better performance?

@LarsH0NEYtoast 2 жыл бұрын

Damn I actually just looked it up, 4k with Dlss still looks a lot better than Native 1440P

@tristanweide 2 жыл бұрын

I am a big sucker for eye candy. I'll play games like Assassin's Creed or Forza at 30fps locked and crank up the settings on my 2060. I think it really depends on how well the implementation of raytracing is. Reflections are one of the stronger selling points of ray tracing and have a lot of potential for things like horror games and being able to see around corners through things like window reflections. However, if it's just ray traced ambient occlusion I will occasionally just turn it off since Ray tracer ambient occlusion makes one of the smallest differences in my opinion. It just really depends how the technology is used to see if it's worth implementing imo.

@SKHYJINX 2 жыл бұрын

I prefer the Reflections and potential of RTAudio. Shadows and AO, not really caring that much.. even though I understand the accuracy aspect..

@tristanweide 2 жыл бұрын

@@SKHYJINX To me, the realistic shadows from raytracing actually look off because I'm so used to rasterization shadows... I usually prefer the darker more outlined shadows from rasterization vs. raytracing

@muhammadsaad2672 2 жыл бұрын

both games that you mentioned dont even support rtx

@ItzMeWill 2 жыл бұрын

FYI, Forza doesnt use raytracing when you're driving around. It only use raytracing when you're looking at the car with Forza Vista.

@tristanweide 2 жыл бұрын

@@muhammadsaad2672 Oh they were just examples of games that I'd play at 30 fps with max settings, not those with raytracing. more saying not every game needs 60 fps

@davidjohansson1416 2 жыл бұрын

Completely disagree. I’d rather have better colors and lighting than more pixels. Have you watched a 4k or 8k video on a 1440p or 1080p screen? (Spoiler it looks amazing)

@CaptainScorpio24 2 жыл бұрын

that's true.

@femboyspeaking9064 2 жыл бұрын

In my case ray tracing is one of those things you don't notice when it's on but you can certainly feel that something is missing when it isn't there. Similar to ambient occlusion or light shafts.

@Bastyxx227 2 жыл бұрын

Yup, is the little detais, you don't know they are there, but you know when they aren't, like being used to playing 160+ fps and then going back to 60 or worse, 30 fps

@hawkofthereborn43 Жыл бұрын

Then you DID notice it, if you realize something is missing when RTX=Off

@neilstack4194 2 жыл бұрын

While I like the Eye Candy I like good resolutions and high FPS so yea I compromise to get the best possible settings per game as of course it varies like from games system requirements

@yedrellow 2 жыл бұрын

Ray tracing is not for current generation cards, even 3090s. Either it's unnoticeable or too laggy to use. Just look at the requirements for Dying Light 2, even a 3090 isn't going to be running the game well with RT high at 1440p. Maybe with the next gen cards it will become worth it. If ray tracing becomes properly integrated with game mechanics then the equation changes a bit.

@cameronsimmons8743 2 жыл бұрын

Yet I'm running ray tracing fine on my gaming laptop. 🙃. 1440p ray tracing on high. 50 fps. 3070 asus laptop

@yedrellow 2 жыл бұрын

I understand that, but 50 fps is not very nice to play on. If you personally don't mind the sacrifice, that's fine, but going that low in frame rate is just not worth it for a minor visual change for me.

@Alexrocks1253 9 ай бұрын

For me if it’s an option, I only turn on RT reflections. RTAO and RT shadows tend to make less of an impact compared to the refelextions visually.

@mannypaul7369 2 жыл бұрын

I agree. I think for development it’s awesome, and games like Control, Spider-Man PS5, & and Cyberpunk RT looks great but it’s not worth the FPS drop. I don’t like using DLSS or FSR as an alternative and I play on a 75 inch tv, I ain’t trying to play on any resolution under 4K, the extra pixels really make the image “pop” a lot more and weirdly seem like it’s coming out of the screen. It’s so much more immersive and transformative than RT settings. Though I’m excited for what’s to come in the next few generations of PC and Console innovations.

@pistachiobandanos904 2 жыл бұрын

i played control without RT a few years ago. Replayed it recently with my new videocard and Yeah man, I had to turn RT on and off to try and spot the differences. Only glass looked more natural in my opinion but it depends on the game too right.

@mannypaul7369 2 жыл бұрын

@@pistachiobandanos904 I traded my Radeon VII for a 6900XT and $400 bucks extra. I played control and admittedly the nvidia card performs much better, and honestly I wouldn’t mind playing at 30FPS with RT IF the game was at 4K, however best I could do is 1440p 30-45FPS. It just wasn’t worth it for me, though one day I think it definitely will be, but probably not for a long time. I did miss the reflections and transparency but I got really used to it especially at 1440p 120 FPS, the trade off was just better. That game was definitely made with RT in mind and it’s gorgeous but again not worth the dip in performance.

@serily4524 5 ай бұрын

"for development its awesome" no it isn't, ray tracing is just a gimmick run on raytracing cards, nothing more else, its in no way revolutionary or fixes the game in any way whatsoever, fix ur damn game graphics, rtx wont fix how ur game looks, your just a pretty graphics fanatic, this thing instead is gonna only make devs lazier, fix ur damn games, and finish them, not everyone is gonna be playing ur trash on rtx, rtx does not count as part of the game

@Coxy_Wrecked 8 ай бұрын

Ray tracing. Never has a graphical effect given so little at the cost of so much performance.

@tek1645 2 жыл бұрын

I could instantly tell that rt reflections were on so I completely disagree

@johnpeters7467 2 жыл бұрын

Sadly I gave to agree... after several months I finally had to admit to myself that I just can't tell the difference with RT on or off during actual gameplay, and if I stare at a still scene for a bit the benefit is so tiny I can't justify sacrificing the higher FPS. I do have red/ green colorblindness so I'm not sure if maybe it's just me that can't really tell the difference? The actual smoothness of gameplay at the higher FPS with RT off is massively noticeable however. I do think the real benefits of RT will be very noticeable in like 4-5 years and I look forward to it.

@wakingfromslumber9555 2 жыл бұрын

Depends which game , I can tell huge difference in cyber punk, metro exodus and doom eternal.

@innocentiuslacrim2290 2 жыл бұрын

No it is not just you. Linus did a video where people on his team tried to guess whether RT was on or off in the game they were playing. A LOT of them guessed wrong.

@wakingfromslumber9555 2 жыл бұрын

@@innocentiuslacrim2290 that was with Tomb Raider which has very poor implementation of RT.

@itsaUSBline 2 жыл бұрын

It really depends on the game and specific implementation of it. Naturally in faster-paced games, you're not going to notice things like that in the midst of action. You could say the same thing of anti-aliasing even, like in Doom Eternal, I could turn the settings down to minimum, and in the middle of an intense fight, I'm not going to notice the loss of quality at all. And certainly in multiplayer games it doesn't matter, either. But it does make a big difference in certain types of games that are more slow-paced narrative type experiences, where you're often moving slowly through detailed environments combing over them or listening to dialogue. I think part of the problem is that because it's not standard and most people don't have the capability to even run RT, it's not worth the time and effort for developers to try and implement it, and when it is implemented, it's used very little or not all that well. I think people also underestimate how useful DLSS is. If you use DLSS, you can use RT without much of a drop in performance at all. And with 2.0, the picture is virtually indistinguishable from native. Linus also did a video about DLSS 2.0, and it's almost impossible to tell the difference, even side-by-side.

@imadecoy. 2 жыл бұрын

@@wakingfromslumber9555 Yeah and then they picked Minecraft with shaders over Minecraft RTX. Meaning amateur modders did a better job with traditional techniques than Nvidia's best engineers could do with RT and access to the game's source.

@akdragonpc473 2 жыл бұрын

Totally agree with the FPS target of 90-120fps over higher quality graphics at 60fps. Once you have experienced 120hz+ panel you can't really go back to 60hz. I will 99.9% of the time always choose 1440p(sometimes with DLSS quality)@120hz over 4K@60hz with my 2080s. Waiting for the 40-series cards to target 4K@90fps+. I will say with Guardians of the galaxy I was able to enable all RT settings at 1440p with DLSS Quality and was still getting 85-110fps, looked pretty much native 1440p with some sharpening.

@Loki1095 8 ай бұрын

What about me that played 120 FPS but now I’m at 30 FPS in every game?

@Kage0No0Tenshi 2 жыл бұрын

I feel diff from 60fps vs 70fps, and even diff between 190fps vs 300fps on my 240Hz screen in some games, in mmo over 150fps will be good and under 110fps feels slow

@halcyon9783 2 жыл бұрын

You don’t notice the rt effect in games like doom eternal but in cyberpunk and control with a lot of glass or neon lighting rt reflections look absolutely stunning. The problem is to get 1440p 60fps on my rtx 3070 laptop (which is more or less equivalent to a 2070 super desktop) I have to set dlss to performance which looks fine most of the time but is a noticeable downgrade from native res.

@CaptainScorpio24 2 жыл бұрын

in laptop yuh need a 3080 for 1080p rtx

@Paulie8K 2 жыл бұрын

I agree. I have a 3080 laptop and it's amazing at 1440P and while it can do RT the fps hit is not worth it. I got lucky today and finally scored a 3080 at MSRP via the BB drop and will replace my 5700XT on the desktop side. I may play around with RT with that card but I can still see myself turning it off in most games unless it's a lighter implementation.

@christophermullins7163 2 жыл бұрын

Lighter implementation. Nice.

@NuggetsXInfinite 2 жыл бұрын

Raytraced reflections are worth turning down a few other settings and turning on FSR/DLSS. Even though I have an all AMD system I love how raytracing looks and want more of it

@Hybred 2 жыл бұрын

DLSS has a sharpening pass but cyberpunk disables it for some reason which is why it looks very blurry. Their is a mod that enables it you can download on Nexus but I think the reason why they disabled it is because they have FidelityFX CAS in the game and expect you to use that with it? I think if you use DLSS and enable CAS that it will improve the image. It's worth a try, but you don't have an RTX GPU anymore

@Hybred 2 жыл бұрын

My friend games on an old 720p 60hz screen. I told him never upgrade because you can't miss what you never had, and although his card is noticably weaker than mine because I play at 1440p at equivalent settings to him I'll get less FPS. It's cool how he can use DLSS at 720p + max out RT settings while hitting 60 perfectly fine in every game. Must be fun to be in his world haha. Also 720p probably doesn't look as bad if that's the panel's native resolution.

@SmiFF_ 2 жыл бұрын

It depends on the size of the monitor itself, but overall, enjoy whatever you´re playing on "that" game ... 90% "ignorance is bliss" ... the lesser you know, the better you sleep

@zetdaripper 2 жыл бұрын

yeah i agree with everything you said here. i have a 6900xt which i use on a 1440p 144hz 34in ultrawide and i would rather res scale up from 1080 or something near there if its a percentage type upscaler or play on a fsr setting that will allow me to reach the 144fps than play it in straight ultra and get lower fps. then again im not super picky. once 4k monitors at high hertz become more affordable then ill probably make the switch to 4k but for now thats where im at and im sure im not the only one. then also have a 240hz 1080 16:9 for esports titles to get that high fps in shooters. thats how i thought about it when i bought my monitors at least.

@mech-tech4779 2 жыл бұрын

Hey mister Daniel. Merry Christmas!

@Scott99259 2 жыл бұрын

In 1080p 24inch monitor from a distance Dlss looks like native.even FSR Ultra Quality looks pretty good to me.

@Gindi4711 2 жыл бұрын

In theory RT may be easier to implement, but as long as you have to provide a fallback for low end cards you will have to do the rasterization implementation anyway. The current console generation can barly do 4K60 without RT. The next console generation (maybe around 2027) might be fast enough for the top model, but there will probaly be a lower end model as well that is not fast enough so dropping rasterization effects will not work. So I guess the generation after that (something like 2035) will be the point where all effects like shadows etc. will be made RT only. We are still miles away from being fully raytraced. We are just talking about some effects. For the PC gaming market I dont think game developers will drop the rasterization effects and instead try to provide a low profile for iGPU. Also the whole "rasterizing effects are so much work" argument is invalid if these effects are either already done by a game studio and can be used from the previous version of a game they made or if the effect is implemented by the engine maker and you just have to use it. So for example if Unreal Engine 5 provides an easy way to use fake rasterization shadows who cares how much work it was as long as it runs fast, looks good and is fast to include into your project.

@RyviusRan 2 жыл бұрын

Considering the PS5 only does 4k 30fps in FF7 Remake I'd say next gen consoles can't do 4k 60fps well without lowering the resolution and relying on upscalers. Even a dated looking game like Tales of Arise cannot hold 4k 60fps on the PS5. Meanwhile I am playing FF7 Remake at 120fps with the big drops being still in the 100s at 4k max settings with dynamic resolution disabled.

@PeterPauls 2 жыл бұрын

Ray Tracing has the biggest impact on reflections, like transparent reflections and distorted reflections (it was instantly noticeable on your video as well), they are only achievable via Ray Tracing and in an eyecandy game like Cyberpunk 2077 worth to turn it on if you have a capable graphics card. Though not everything is Ray Tracing, even Ultra settings are not as important, if you really want to play the game. I'm not a "high refresh rate above anything else" guy, but I like if my game is locked 60 fps and doesn't dip below.

@gorjy9610 2 жыл бұрын

impact would be minor if they didn't skip creating reflection maps, withcher 3 look like RT game compared to cyberpunk.

@ArthurM1863 2 жыл бұрын

@@gorjy9610 lol what. Witcher 3 looks like a ps2 game compared to cyberpunk

@allansolano5587 2 жыл бұрын

@@gorjy9610 with mods maybe but vanilla the witcher 3 looks like a cross ps3 and ps4 game bro hahahah

@PeterPauls 2 жыл бұрын

@@allansolano5587 I would not say that Witcher 3 looks that bad. Far from Cyberpunk, but still a great looking game, with very good global illumination, amazing art style, and great facial animation (for a game which is not motion captured). On PC maxed out vanilla game still looks good. Aged well.

@gorjy9610 2 жыл бұрын

@@ArthurM1863 I'll guess that you didn't even be born when we play ps2 games. Just look at reflection in blood and wine and than "reflections" on cyberpunk without RT and tell me that devs didn't cut few corners.

@Sam-K 2 жыл бұрын

I was skeptical of RT technology in gaming; until I saw Digital Foundry's tech analysis of the Matrix demo. It's expensive, yes, but I think it's the future. Instead of smartly applying shaders; just use real time RT which is not only simpler to implement, but also much superior and realistic.

@imadecoy. 2 жыл бұрын

It's the future, but give it a couple of generations. The Matrix demo had issues, the framerate was insanely low, and so was the actual render resolution. The ghosting was ridiculous. Drive a car at high speed and you'll see a trail stretch from the license plate to the bottom of your display. And these tech demos also tend to be the best examples of the technology. I was hoping for a bit better honestly. We're definitely a few years away.

@Lollakuk 2 жыл бұрын

Digital Foundry guys dont even play games. They are like someone wjo compares horse power in different motors and cars and go like wooow but dont even drive those cars themselves.

@Sam-K 2 жыл бұрын

@@imadecoy. Sure, although to be fair RDNA2 has terrible RT horsepower. Far worse than Ampere or even Turing (if I recall). And the ghosting is due to UE5's built-in TSR which is essentially a game engine based temporal super-sampling technology, not much unlike DLSS. TSR is in its infancy at the moment and I'm sure it'll get better with time.

@imadecoy. 2 жыл бұрын

@@Sam-K RDNA2 can beat Turing in RT, it just doesn't have DLSS. I expect an Ampere GPU would handle the demo a bit better, but it would still be far from where I'd want it to be.

@Jossages 2 жыл бұрын

@@imadecoy. I don't know this for sure, but I suspect (as a hobbyist developer working on real time ray tracing since I had an HD 7850) Turing is actually faster at ray tracing operations than RDNA2, but it's slower at everything else, which is why they might appear similar in some games with RT.

@andrevj6644 2 жыл бұрын

I feel like we should actually optimize graphics more in the future because in order to get better performance we need to bump up the wattage of cards and 350wats is starting to get insane and we are reaching the limit of of how close we can place each transistor and how small we can make each transistor. I hope nvidia's and AMD's multi chip modules are more efficient then our current top end chips and that it can scale more in the next 5 years plan. Otherwise we need to bring back multi gpu graphics cards and then make it act as one gpu( the same as ryzen cpus with there ccx's and the Infinity fabric)

@MGB2408 2 жыл бұрын

I don't car about RT. That's why a buying a 6700xt to replace my 5600xt. Like you said console are not there yet.

@xgunnas32 2 жыл бұрын

i was trying hard to justify RTX, but there just isn't reason to turn it on, dlss quality does give more frames if i don't notice the loss in image quality, so at least that's something.

@yoddythegreat 2 жыл бұрын

Can you please explain it with examples and not only with that guessing thing? I just couldnt catch up and imagining it with your ramble

@MrMengAmok 2 жыл бұрын

Well kinda said the same things, when my friends bombarded me with question if they should jump on the 2000 series rtx cards for ray traceing... I told them, developers have to adept and current technology in pc gaming as well as consoles are far from beeing strong enough to make it a valid selling point. And that it will take at least until 2030 to be a grafics setting on that mid or even low end hardware can spit out 100+ frames on 4k in AAA games. Most people forget, that even tho I dont see a reason to upgrade 4k monitors to 8k monitors, (wich will be a possibility until 2030), outside of that, that games get more and more demanding. That said,... The best of the best, when it comes to graficscards, I believe, that the nvidia rtx 5000 and 6000 flagships will be able to play on 4k up to 2030 and above for a few extra years on 4k with rt enabeld, with high settings + dlss with ~100 fps in most AAA titels, unless photo realistic games become the norm. If photo realism gets pushes as well, then you kinda have to buy more or less every single generation until eternity one of the next gen gpus.

@JohnCiaccio 2 жыл бұрын

RTX 200 series card are a joke unfortunately. You can get DLSS with them but forget any raytracing. The 3000 series has much better performance. Either go with a good GTX card which as high rasterization performance or jump to a RTX 3060ti or better card. Preferably a RTX 3080. Anything in between and you won't get a good enough RT performance to use those features anyways. Plus if they are more of competitive shooter type gamer RT is pointless.

@mikmikmikmijtheshy8577 2 жыл бұрын

I agree resolution is more important. It’s like asking, “would you rather have a pair of glasses or nice wallpaper” Obviously take the glasses first and the wallpaper only if you can afford both.

@zodiacfml 2 жыл бұрын

fan of ray tracing for gaming since it came out more than a decade ago but I found recently that nice graphics just disappears or becomes a blur with fast gameplay. on one game, I play 1080p on a 4K tv. it is is ugly at the start of the game but goes away once the action starts.

@matthewrichardson2533 Жыл бұрын

All I want are options to mess around with but, 60 good fidelity in singleplayer 90-120 fps in multiplayer is my target.

@chrisuapo11 2 жыл бұрын

RT reflections are definitely worth it imo. I have a 2070 super and I am happy with playing single player games at optimised high/ultra settings with RT reflections on to hit 60/70 fps. When I play competitive shooters, I lower all settings and let it run at 300/400 fps.

@od13166 2 жыл бұрын

laughs at games forced to use dlss on 1080p

@superboss7403 Жыл бұрын

Turn dlss on And play at 720p

@chrisuapo11 Жыл бұрын

720p starts to look rough

@hantuan107 Жыл бұрын

RT reflection is absolutely worth it. It's the most difinitive feature that differentiate rasterization and ray/path-tracing graphics. Other features like GI lighting, ambient occulusion .. we can "fake" it pretty effectively with current methods.

@mingdug1824 8 ай бұрын

RT Reflections benefit the most. GI and AO we don't fake it just gets pre-baked but it IS ray-tracing just not realtime thats why the last of us part 2 looks phenomenal cus its pre-baked but it just drives game size up a ton is all.

@allansolano5587 2 жыл бұрын

I own a 3060 and i have try ray tracing but i only use it on control minecraft rtx, doom and metro exodus enhanced because i feel like those are the only games ive try where i think is worth it but i do use dlss a lot but i try to use it at 1440p or 4K for example i play on a 1080p monitor and i use DSR to bump up the resolution so i play red dead redemption 2 at high settings at 4K with dlss performance and it looks waaay better than 1080p so for me is amazing and i get 50/65 fps to be honest it looks super detail to me hahaha an at 1440p i use balanced but i guess thats my personal preference

@SKHYJINX 2 жыл бұрын

I do this all the time. DSR 4K, 0 filtering cos 1080p to 4K scales proper. 4K DLSS-P (1080p Ai) Destroys 1080p TAA.

@allansolano5587 2 жыл бұрын

@@SKHYJINX its actually a really good boost in detail to be honest compared to native 1080p a lot of games look really blury at native 1080p specially if they use TAA

@accelement3499 2 жыл бұрын

ive determined 72 fps is the minimum acceptable fps 90 is preferred but i generally play at 60to reduce pc usage because heat

@lucianoemmanuelramirez1304 2 жыл бұрын

I need glases to see well now.. but even with glasses I CAN´T really see the difference between ON and OFF ..so I rather run high FPS.. probably its more noticeable for ppl with good eyesight.

@Lukasz3332x 2 жыл бұрын

Look at Rachet and Clank on PS5 very good reflections even on modern PC standards. For me RT reflections are important because worlds get consistent. I dont care about better textures or "photorealism. Give me GTA 5's rasterization for open world games with RT and i'm happy.

@nit3h8wk81 2 жыл бұрын

Even with a 3090 I still turn off ray tracing in most games. The performance hit is just too great.

@DarkKnight1981 2 жыл бұрын

Only use RT if game supports good implementation of dlss

@nit3h8wk81 2 жыл бұрын

@@DarkKnight1981 And only if there is some form of sharpening to reduce the blurriness.

@Ulquiorra105 2 жыл бұрын

Ray Tracing is still in it's "infancy" per se. Still needs another two gens or so, so when the Nvidia RTX 5,000 cards are out, then maybe Ray Tracing will be more optimized.

@blckmlr7573 2 жыл бұрын

You just said what I was thinking lol ray tracing is still in it's infancy like you say, we are currently on gen 2 of RTX atm I think we may see some what more of an improvement on the third generation with the 4000 series , but I will agree that until it's fourth or fifth generation with an RTX 5000-6000 series is where will truly see it's capabilities and be more optimized.

@Thor_Asgard_ 2 жыл бұрын

Raytracing is amazing, but only when its pathtracing. We just have to look at Unreal 5 that it can come with nearly no performance loss. BTW i cant play Cyberpunk without Raytracing reflections anymore... as it just looks dull without.

@Deliveredmean42 2 жыл бұрын

Yep, similar to Metro Exodus. Removing every single traditional lighting to the scene can significantly improve the games performance. When the games is design solely with Raytracing in mind its when we are finally there.

@imadecoy. 2 жыл бұрын

Have you seen how much ghosting there is in that demo? And it only does 30 fps, 24 fps for cutscenes.

@Thor_Asgard_ 2 жыл бұрын

@@imadecoy. cyberpunk has MUCH worse ghosting, while achieving far less. with those visuals i can accept some problems and remember, the technologie is new, very impressive.

@Deliveredmean42 2 жыл бұрын

@@Thor_Asgard_ New and in alpha/beta. So it can be improved.

@FreightTrain22 2 жыл бұрын

If you have a 2080 or better, it’s pretty worth it. Especially now with dlss. Only time I have disabled ray tracing is when I’m playing a multiplayer game

@zokuva 2 жыл бұрын

well, DLSS itself has its own downsides, so it's not as simple as that IMO

@allansolano5587 2 жыл бұрын

@@zokuva it does have downsides but it can be a different experience from one person to another for example i dont see a mayor change in using dlss performance at 4K or balanced at 1440 or quality at 1080p some people like dan cant use it at less than quality even at 4K and other thing is ghosting i havent notice ghosting even in dlss 2.0 but a lot of people can

@FreightTrain22 2 жыл бұрын

@@zokuva eh not really anymore at least for me. I manually update all my games with dlss to the latest version and they all look pretty damn good even at 1440p. It’s really just a preference

@anthonyrizzo9043 2 жыл бұрын

Without finishing the video yet, RT makes things easier for devs to make things look more realistic, eventually they will not need to put reflections, shadows and illumination in games, it will all be done through ray tracing. It is expensive right now but so is any new feature when it comes out. Bump mapping and tessalation were expensive when they came out and now its pretty much standard. Ray tracing will get to this point, at some point. But is it needed for consumers? Not really its a cool feature, but they can get rasterization pretty close if they put the work in, but back to the point that rt is more for devs.

@markdavenportjr5129 2 жыл бұрын

I always use high settings in all of my games. And if I need to use dlss at performance mode then so be it. :)

@iftekharsafi4861 2 жыл бұрын

You use high settings to make the game look good making it look like a blurry mess doesn't seem like a good idea

@greenumbrellacorp5744 2 жыл бұрын

that's just... dumb, dlss perf is too extreme and murders the image, dlss quality high, sure but if ur going to dlss performance... drop settings first

@JohnCiaccio 2 жыл бұрын

As long as I get maintain a 60 fps (4k 60 monitor) I am good. a Rtx 3070 does a pretty good job at it. I use DLSS when necessary.

@Grim-HEX 2 жыл бұрын

On my phone trying to see the difference and noticing nothing, looking it over again to see if its on or off.. And then realising I'm watching on 144p

@evacody1249 8 ай бұрын

It would make sense with 1080p monitors. When you gonupnto 1440p and 4k not so much.

@godblessbharat708 2 жыл бұрын

Ray tracing isn't minor. I think it just needs optimization rt cores are not utilized to their full capability

@Loki1095 8 ай бұрын

Whatever I don’t care i’m still turning on ray Tracein every single time I have the option to

@od13166 2 жыл бұрын

fact that dice pulled off nerfing RT in BFV you wont see RT in MP games

@joshnlevinson 2 жыл бұрын

I agree for the most part, but also think it depends on how quickly DLSS / FSR evolve. You seem lukewarm about DLSS, but I actually think it's quite amazing. I have a 3080 and 1440p monitor, and for newer games with RT available, I usually turn it on, put settings at high / ultra, and use DLSS at quality or balanced settings, and am happy with the way things look... and I typically get at least 70-80 fps doing it that way. DLSS makes RT possible (even at 1440p), but it's not that it just gets by that way... the games usually still look amazing with DLSS (at higher settings). On older games (2+ years), I still put DLSS to good use... I will often use DSR and set the resolution at 4k (on my 1440p monitor) to make it extra crisp. Then I use DLSS to bring the fps back up. For example, now that Horizon Zero Dawn has DLSS, I set it to 4k / ultra settings and with DLSS on quality I get around 90 fps average with around 80 fps 1% lows... and these to me are very good frame rates. For reference, with the game set at 1440p / ultra and DLSS off, I get average frame rates around 115 fps.

@joshnlevinson 2 жыл бұрын

@Ethereal Audiodo you mean better than 4k on 1440p monitor using DSR, and DLSS on? I think that looks better than 1440p native even with DLSS off... it just looks crisper.

@danielowentech 2 жыл бұрын

1440p render on a 4K monitor can look better tjan a native 1440p image on a 1440p monitor if it is upscaled well using something like DLSS or a good TAAU. The upscale can add in details that aren't actually present in the native image. But it will look worse without a good upscale technique.

@viktorjenkins8079 2 жыл бұрын

@Ethereal Audio No, any dlss at 4k looks better than 1440p. dlss quality even looks better than native in my opinion in some games like horizon zero dawn because it fixes shimmering...

@danielowentech 2 жыл бұрын

If you sit close to a large screen the upscale becomes more noticeable. On my 48inch screen I find DLSS quality to be good, and balanced to be borderline (im pretty picky compared to average though). Using a TAAU like in Unreal Engine, it looks very close to native at 83% (1800p) but below that I can definitely see the loss of sharpness and 1440p on that size of screen is just not good enough if sitting close. Further back its fine.

@joltjoseph 2 жыл бұрын

I own a 3070 ti Honestly majority of the time can not tell a difference when I have it on. 🤷 now a days I just keep it off.

@brandondamitz8876 2 жыл бұрын

Performance vs details Performance = lose my sanity Details = keep the art intact

@claytondanyluk6872 Жыл бұрын

I enable ray tracing on a game to game basis. Cyberpunk and Dying Light 2, I absolutely do. Although it looks great in Spiderman, it also looks great without, and I can't stand the framerate drops while swinging through the city, even though they aren't all that frequent or bad, it completely ruins the experience for me.

@SleepyRulu 2 жыл бұрын

Give this man more subscribers than both linus and jaytwocent

@PixelShade 2 жыл бұрын

I think standard rasterization has come so far at faking RT that most people don't see the difference, except perhaps a very subtle loss of realism without RT. I personally really appreciate the lighting realism of RT. and the removal of SSR artifacts in reflections and how shadows behave more naturally. However, if the framerate tanks it's just not worth it imho. Crytek has been able to fake lighting to a very high degree through their voxel based global illumination solution (SVOGI). And honestly, I am equally happy with voxel based global illumination in contrast to ray-traced global ilummination (even at the same performance level). Because both techniques solves the same issue of unnatural bounce lighting. Even if SVOGI is less precise, it doesn't cause de-noising artifacts as RT does, hence during gameplay, I would even prefer SVOGI over RT even. a combination of cube maps, planar reflections and SSR can also yieldvery good results for reflections. It just requires more time from developers and needs to be more artist driven. Shadows, well, they're okay even if they don't get softer further away from light sources.

@cscott3401 2 жыл бұрын

90fps is my target too - I feel like you hit the nail on the head. Anything below 70-75 feels awful, and anything above 90 is diminishing as far as comprehensible difference

@cropredator1027 2 жыл бұрын

If 60 is awful then you have a problem with your eyes.

@cscott3401 2 жыл бұрын

@@cropredator1027 I’ve just got an opinion is all, which is why I started with an “I feel” statement. I’ll play my games how I like them and you can play yours how you do.

@Nameless-qe9hu 2 жыл бұрын

“70-75 feels awful” *laughs in 10 fps minimum settings*

@smifffies 2 жыл бұрын

I only play at 4k native on my 4k@120hz 50" Samsung Qled screen using RX 6900 XT Some of my games are frame locked @ 60fps (Skyrim Anniversary Edition), others like Outer Worlds are around 140fps. My older games are usually much higher and my newer games are all over 60fps, all on either high settings or ultra for frame locked games. Not tried FSR yet as only just built system and enjoying the installed games, yet to re-install/download bulk of my games collection from GOG/Steam/Epic/Ubisoft. Raytracing is of no interest to me at all as immersive gameplay is far more important than shiny light on a leaf that you have to zoom in on, once you have recorded gameplay and cannot really notice when playing the game.

@hughjassstudios9688 2 жыл бұрын

I wouldn't ever use ray tracing unless it could do the most complex light emulations like caustics with no performance hits. In layman's terms, give it 10 years' time…

@MehmetMene 2 жыл бұрын

It depends on the game. Control is great example, ray tracing enabled.

@justinv3360 2 жыл бұрын

I think Ray Tracing is a 'cool' feature, but Unreal Engine 5 seems like a game changer (and maybe, just maybe Ray Tracing will be like a toggle to switch on and off), btw I can't tell any difference from the guessing game, maybe I have bad eyes lol

@DarkKnight1981 2 жыл бұрын

Current high end gpus even struggling at 4k 60 without ray tracing.

@n.y.npache2646 2 жыл бұрын

i only partially agree , consoles can do rt, they just have to limit the effects , it's not like you have to use it and for so little differences ... just check games where RT is used on AMD sponsorised games and you will see that it's not a problem if being adapted to hardware... moreover i see more and more 4k games with no raytracing at all that are 100x better looking than those AAA with tones of demanding rt with so little visual impact (check "a plague tail" , "bf2042" (rt can be activated but can't see any diff even in fps , but when RT on it's crashing)... and if you check cp2077 , diference between refrection psycho and reflection hi or low is insignificant ... that won't even do better games (cp2077 is a alpha technical 15hours demo sorry for those who don't see it)

@hawkofthereborn43 Жыл бұрын

Imagine that a game looks better with slightly lower FPS and better lighting that doesn't look like shit, along with real-time shadows that don't fucking clip through walls! I'd rather have 60 FPS and make the game look good, than have 400+ fps and make the game's graphics overall look shittier than a PS1 port

@snapcount321 2 жыл бұрын

I think all predictions about the future of video game graphics need to roll the clock forward by 1-2 years. 2021 was a mostly lost year for consoles and GPU availability and most of the new GPUs promised for 2022 are refreshes of Ampere/RDNA 2 - and even then there's no guarantee they'll make it into the hands of gamers. Given that games are designed to serve the broadest user base, I won't be surprised if the major next leap in MAINSTREAM graphics is in 2024-25, assuming there is a mining crash before then and that global supply chains can reset. With studios unable to execute major projects in the pandemic (see GTA Remastered, Battlefield 2042), I think it's best we sit at the current of plateau of performance, wait for reasonable GPU prices and let developers learn to get max. performance from the current spec.

@papichuckle Жыл бұрын

Most devs now just don't bother optimising games, especially if it's a pc version so slapping rt onto a game makes the already badly optimised games even worse. Doesn't help when they use engines like unreal engine 4 and the stingray engine and add rt into it when them engines don't even fully utilise the pc hardware we have now. Plus even with how overpriced the 4000 series is and that 80% of the normal working population can't afford it anyway,even if you do have a 4090 they also struggle to do max settings with rt and you have to rely on dlss 3.0 to get the frames anyway and the funny thing about dlss 3.0 it just adds fake frames anyway. So for the price they are asking for, for them gpus it isn't worth it as we all aren't all stupidly rich it's got to the point with pc gaming that it's just free advertising for consoles

@evacody1249 8 ай бұрын

It's why out side of two games many of the games I have came out before 2020.

@qweetqci 2 жыл бұрын

I don't complain having low fps on single player games since i was a low spec gamer for many years, i've owned a gaming rig for 4 years now and I love going maxed out even if i trade all my fps, I don't care i still enjoy it, in MP however i chose lowest settings so i can get hundreds of fps so i play well, rtx in minecraft, metro exodus is completely worth it IMO since they run well even on RTX 2060

@aminbagheri9044 2 жыл бұрын

Same here in single player games i don't care if my fps is like 60 insted of 90 the ponit of singel player games is to be immersive and rt is way to make it more immersive the need of a high refresh rate gaming in single player games is thing that i dont get

@wakingfromslumber9555 2 жыл бұрын

@@aminbagheri9044 I don’t know , with single player first person shooters games having high FPS is important because sluggish shooting can really impact the experience of the game. I wouldn’t be too bothered about having high FPS for real time strategies or rpg’s

@danielowentech 2 жыл бұрын

I can tell you that I'm playing ff7 right now at 90fps wich requires a bit of render scaling in some scenes because it feels infinitely smoother to play than 60fps even though I can lock a native 4K 60.

@Time_Traveling_Lesbian 2 жыл бұрын

Dang that ray traced lighting looks good

@StgVirus1 2 жыл бұрын

Tay tracing is very nice on same games if they are supported. However, some games like COD and some others I find pointless. The lose of fps in a combat setting is stupid and don't really notice it. Other games like Cyberpunk and Horizon 5 look amazing with ray tracing. No doubt that ray tracing is the future, but I agree that current gen hardware isn't really capable of running with it on with high fps. We're still probably 5 years away until it will be widely supported.

@DominikZogg 2 жыл бұрын

It also depends on game. Metro Exodus looks much better if it's on, in Cyberpunk 2077 it feels like burning FPS for nothing

@dr.sivavignesh664 2 жыл бұрын

Ray tracing as a form of gameplay mechanic is very limited. A game based on solving reflection puzzles and things like that would benefit from it. But other than that it is just eye candy.

@jameskeane8653 2 жыл бұрын

I had a choice between a 3090 and a 6900xt - I chose the 6900xt thanks to it being $1200 aud cheaper but also not caring about raytracing or dlss - I would prefer 4k/high/120 without raytracing. The hardware needs to catch up.

@CasmurMusic 2 жыл бұрын

Smart man 👊🏿

@Lollakuk 2 жыл бұрын

Good choice!

@zodiacfml 2 жыл бұрын

8:33 well ray tracing is already a huge win on game or any 3d development but gamers pay/share most of the cost of developing of ray tracing gpus

@stefanjakobsen6038 2 жыл бұрын

i HAVE A 3060 TI and play in 1080P. Ray tracing on ultra in Shadow Of The Tomb Raider is fukkin crazy

@arikelvara 2 жыл бұрын

The only game where Ray Tracing is baked in at the engine level is Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition!

@kamikazilucas 2 жыл бұрын

ray tracing is way better than ultra settings though, you can actually see a difference in the reflections

@jasonpotter3001 2 жыл бұрын

PS5 and Series Xbox were too early, almost guaranteed we will see a mid-life cycle refresh like the pro or onex if not just an extremely short run and PS6 or Series next. Microsoft more less said it in the name, they are ready to deliver a series whatever the same as upgrading your GPU in a PC. An SSD is what most console players are noticing and impressed with right now as they should be, SSD is amazing but it's not next gen graphics. The console companies could have waited, tech is just moving too fast.

@ericjohns5392 2 жыл бұрын

I find that gaming with a higher or lower visual quality. Is the same debate as gaming with a high refresh rate. It's in the eye of the beholder. I myself cannot see a difference between say, 100hz or 165hz. To your point, I really could not tell a HUGE difference between 60fps and 90fps. Whereas if I lower settings in say RDR2 to high instead of ultra. I can definitely tell a difference. Just as in Cyberpunk 2077 I can really tell the difference with Ray Tracing on off and low high. So what I'm saying is that depending on which road you went down when you started computer gaming. That is what a person is much more sensitive to than someone opposite them. I have a friend that says I'm crazy for playing games at 4k ultra rather than less detail and higher FPS. While I disagree with him, I absolutely understand why he says that as he has always cared more about FPS and is more sensitive to that than details and high resolution. I don't really think either way someone is wrong.

@od13166 2 жыл бұрын

Before Doom Eternal Release ID Software didnt included RTX in launch instead they focusing that they had with ID TECH 7 and optimising it then next gen console came out its out and its one of best RT game i've played if this kinda developers are standard we can hope RT but right now theres so many game with RT Runs like arse with that on or even without RT forced use DLSS to make it run 60fps even in 1080p thats already dumb

@anxietyonline1947 2 жыл бұрын

You're absolutely right and I agree with everything you said...but Quake 2 with ray tracing tho :( Gets me everytime!

@thegenxgamerguy6562 2 жыл бұрын

Hm, sounds a bit like post-rationalization after buying an AMD instead of an NVIDIA GPU. I mean, I play games like WD:L with full raytracing (and yes, DLSS, but for me thats perfectly fine) on my LG C1 and I don't see any problems, performance-wise. Ok, I use a 3090, but this is a graphics card in consumer reach. So my opinion is a bit different: we're already there, it's just that we still have the option to turn it off for people with graphics cards not yet capable of doing RT.

@hhhfdsfs 2 жыл бұрын

Pretty much bought an rtx card for dlss amd its worth it ino.

@danielowentech 2 жыл бұрын

I think DLSS is really cool. Which is why it can be great to bump up from 60fps to 90fps using DLSS. But then if turning RT on drops you back to 60 it doesn't seem worth it to me. So I think the best use of DLSS is to boost framerates with RT off.

@ameliabuns4058 2 жыл бұрын

I literally showed rtx off and on screenshots to People and showed me playing it live to non gamers, 4/4 said off is the better looking setting. I didn't tell them this is RTX or what even rtx is

@MrArchy1986 2 жыл бұрын

Thats why i dont get it, why producers put 4k screens in gaming laptops? Whats the point? To run eye candy @20fps on your 3080 laptop or 100fps+ with low settings and dlss bla bla bla. Got myself 3070(140w) laptop paired with 144hz 1080p screen, and i still cant cap that screen in most games. Gpu power just isnt there jet.

@johnny_rook 2 жыл бұрын

It seems to me you're just trying to justify your own GPU purchase decisions at this point. Hearing you say "Ray tracing is just a Graphics settings" remembered me of those that back in 1999 -- and because they got a Voodoo instead of a Geforce 256 --, have said: " Transform, Clipping and Lighting are just graphics settings" too. Critics contended that it had little real-world value. But, by the the end of 2001, all discrete graphics chips would have hardware T&L and the rest is history. Just because only higher end GPUs can handle a certain workload doesn't mean developers won't support it. That's how it's always has been in this industry. The tech trickles down from high end to low end. And if anything, 2021 has shown that your future is already here. Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition is a DXR only game; there's no "Disable Ray tracing" option.

@NyahNyum 2 жыл бұрын

Yep. AMD users salt all over the table :)

@adnanerochdi6982 2 жыл бұрын

coming from a 3d background, im glad I joined pc 'ultra' gaming masterrace at this point in time when rt became a thing. To my eyes it really makes a difference, I am blown how ray traced graphics are now real time not rasterized. this is noticeable in control and minecraft win10 ed. tbh rt shadow alone is enough, reflections are also a why-not cuz I can tell, and evertone can tell once u know what to look for. I knew rt was intense, so i went ultrawide insterad of 4k in the first place. 3090 handles rt well, but I saved for it since forever, so why not enjoy life ;p

@pedropierre9594 2 жыл бұрын

But is ray tracing worth the premium price for it ? And the overall performance ? To me it doesn’t right now but I’m the future I bet ray tracing will be the go to setting on nvidia

@adnanerochdi6982 2 жыл бұрын

@@pedropierre9594 maybe not all raytracing settings, shadows or reflections depending on the game

@handsomejustin Жыл бұрын

Michael Jackson is the KING OF MUSIC. And the Bad album is the greatest album of all time.

@adnanerochdi6982 Жыл бұрын

@@handsomejustin this profile pic is going to its 10 year anniv in 2024

@ferdinandgonzalez7407 2 жыл бұрын

I rather have 144 fps at 1440p at mid to high settings. Anything under 100 fps is like watching a slideshow.

@neoaliens8635 2 жыл бұрын

Turn off Ray Tracing in all multiplayer scenes but also remember, AMD sucks at RT performance and FSR hurts graphics more than DLSS. Temporal upscaling is the future with or without RT turned on. GIT GUD AMD

@zeekmx1970 2 жыл бұрын

I'm thrilled you did this video Owen. Because everyone does need to understand that EVERY game has an issue of some kind and that's not going to change because that's the nature of computers. The game industry is dead in 2021 because they kept pocketing everyone's money and selling them broken games broken hardware. What I'm sayin to you here Own is the day has arrived where nobody can afford anymore con job and broken promises by greed corp.

@manicdan481 2 жыл бұрын

I could see the PS7 being a RT only kind of console. Resolution and framerates seemed to reach peak at 4k120hz, so now its going to be about eye-candy with upcoming console generations. I think it would be really cool if the GPU designers did a one-off where they threw in a lot of RT cores. It could let a mid range GPU match a high end once RT is on, but in raster it would just be mid range. If the consumer opinion was good it could really direct the next wave of GPUs to go very heavily in that direction, or just point out that maybe its not worth it.

@gameguy301 2 жыл бұрын

A GPU that strips down on shaders and maximizes RT cores wouldn’t really be a raytracing optimized card. the “RT cores” don’t do the whole raytracing task front to back. They are accelerators for specific portions of the Ray workload, but the compute shaders are responsible for RT related steps both before and after the RT core does it’s thing. Basically the entire SM is responsible for making raytracing possible, the RT core makes portions of that work faster. Dialing back on shaders wouldn’t just hurt raster performance, it would hurt RT performance as well. Depending on the game, the shader parts of the RT work might actually be the most time consuming of all, specifically the BVH rebuild that happens before, or the denoising that happens after.

@frankallen3634 2 жыл бұрын

With a 3080 I can't tell the difference between 60 and 120fps. To be fair every fps feels the same to me, and I'm using an oled

@danielowentech 2 жыл бұрын

So... did you actually set the TV to 120hz in the display settings? Because it's a pretty obvious difference just moving your mouse around on the desktop.

@rendezvu175 2 жыл бұрын

RT is good for single-player, story mode.

@kovrcek Жыл бұрын

I don't care about 120/144Hz gaming, I love 3D in CP2077 (through reshade you can enable it on most games today) - it made the game totally different experience - like you are really there (tall scyscrapers, long streets, it's super immersive). But it lowers your resolution somewhat as it has to render 2 images. So it's all the way RT on for me + 3D. Once you try RT (and 3D for that matter) you never want to go back. I can play CP at 120fps without RT/3D with "sharp" image but the experience is quite underwhelming still. Even with lower sharpness and some depth map artifacts, DLSS on (due to RT on) is waaaaay more immersive for me than 4k/RT off/non 3D. And that's what I think games should be all about = immersion (being in another "world"). And frankly once you try 3D in this game, you can turn everything off and still enjoy it much more than 4k/RTon as the world was basically made for it.

@SKHYJINX 2 жыл бұрын

60 is cool,90 is sweet,120 is silky Any higher is kinda situational (esports) or usermonitor dependant.

@williampinnock2256 2 жыл бұрын

Meh, my 3090, admittedly heavily overclocked and modded, with DLSS at quality, will run every RTX enabled game 4k Ultra at acceptable for me FPS with VRR, averaging above 60, usually well above, with dips into high 40s sometimes. Yeah, maybe it's placebo, but I spotted most of those RTX options in Cyberpunk correctly, and the ones I got wrong were ones I forgot were there.

@superboss7403 Жыл бұрын

Yeah turn on dlss gimmick and achieve better fps.