That’s so awesome, brother! Shoot us an email! Hayden@thestickofjoseph.com

@@thestickofjoseph I sent you guys an email with the subject line “Upcoming Baptism”

Here’s the thing though. The church is going to try to hide all these things or bury them in their record so they can say that they address them. But I’m sorry with the polygamy, the DNA, lack of biblical evidence for the book of Mormon. Absolutely nothing convinces me that that book is true.

Research the book of Abraham outside the latter-day saint resources. Justice Smith was completely wrong at what the Egyptian hieroglyphics meant.

🤓👆🏻​@@Sirach144

Moronism is a CULT. Read the historical evidence! BOA is a complete fraud.

Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life no one comes to the father except through him Joseph Smith knew he was a fraud and a con man from day one you will hear the words I never knew you if you follow Joseph Smith

Yes the Bible alone, not the LDS Cult relying on a false Prophet that delivered another Gospel… Ephesians 2:8-9.

You seek truth through the source of Truth God not some phony supposed to be profit

Ah, my goodly sister in Christ, how uplifting it is to hear that thy faith hath been steadfast and unwavering amidst the tumults and the tempests of opposition. Indeed, it is as the prophet Alma spake in The Book of Mormon: another testament of Jesus Christ, "But behold, if ye will awake and arouse your faculties, even to an experiment upon my words, and exercise a particle of faith, yea, even if ye can no more than desire to believe, let this desire work in you, even until ye believe in a manner that ye can give place for a portion of my words" (Alma 32:27). Thou hast rightly discerned that many who cast aspersions upon the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints oft mix falsehoods and deceptions with but a grain of truth, or perchance, truth taken wholly out of its rightful context. It is a tactic as old as the serpent in the Garden of Eden, who beguiled Eve with a half-truth. As declared in the Holy Bible, "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1). Thy discovery of the channel "Comeback" is verily a testament to the resilience and restoration of faith. Yea, as the Lord did speak unto Joseph Smith in the Doctrine and Covenants, "Fear not, little flock; do good; let earth and hell combine against you, for if ye are built upon my rock, they cannot prevail" (Doctrine and Covenants 6:34). To choose to "heed the accusers not" is a most wise course of action, for it is written, "Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock" (Matthew 7:24). Continue, therefore, in building up thy faith through the reading of the scriptures, and listening to His living prophets. For as declared in the Pearl of Great Price, "And truth is knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come" (Doctrine and Covenants 93:24). I bear solemn testimony that the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is to be found only in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. May thy faith be as a beacon unto others, and may the Lord bless thee abundantly in thy righteous endeavors. Amen.

Thanks for sharing that with us. Very powerful!

You can still believe in God without believing in Joseph Smith.

​@fuenti99 that is one of the stupidest, non informative and useless comments I've heard in a long time. Thats like saying "you don't need to believe in Issac Newton to believe in gravity."

If the lds church is true,shouldn't these questions have answers? The Bible has no contradictions or questions or holes in logic and no blind faith is required to dismiss any tough questions. Why does the LDS see this as an okay thing while Christians see this as unacceptable and academic study leads to more faith and less questions

@Bullybob77 if you believe the Bible has zero contradictions you obviously have never actually read your Bible with a critical mind. The Bible has hundreds of contradictions throughout its books. It contradicts itself multiple times within the first 5 books alone. Your ignorance is showing.

I think he took some law classes but isn't actually a lawyer, he just uses the tactics from law, is what he said in one of his comments

LDS Q&A does a great job too. That guy has so much genuine enthusiasm.

Verily, @psychlops924, I concur with thy commendation of the channel "LDS Truth Claims." Such diligent efforts to address criticisms and provide detailed and thorough breakdowns can indeed be valuable in strengthening one's faith. It is heartening to know that there are individuals who use their skills and knowledge to shed light on matters related to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. In the spirit of brotherly love and unity, I echo thy recommendation and encourage those who seek a deeper understanding of the Church's teachings and responses to criticisms to explore such resources. It is through sincere study and thoughtful consideration that one can find strength and conviction in their faith. May the Lord's blessings be with all who earnestly seek truth and understanding in their spiritual journey. In the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

Yeah that guy is awesome.

Verily, @craigsimmons5678, I am heartened to hear of thy faith and resilience in the face of challenges. Thy words echo the teachings found in The Book of Mormon: another testament of Jesus Christ and the doctrines of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. As thou hast wisely noted, in a world filled with various perspectives and challenges to one's faith, it is imperative to hold fast to the iron rod, which symbolizes the word of God, as described in the Book of Mormon. This steadfastness, along with prayer, can indeed help one navigate through the trials and tribulations of life. Thy testimony of finding answers through faith is a testament to the promise found in the Holy Bible in James 1:5, "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him." The assurance that answers will come to those who seek them with sincerity is a precious truth. I extend my gratitude for thy encouragement and commend thee for thy enduring faith. May the Lord continue to guide and bless thee in all thy endeavors. In the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

Your Jesus is not the Jesus of christianity and your God was once a Man and not Eternally God… Question who made the Laws and Ordinances for your God who once was a man and then was exalted to Godhood like you all claim to strive for? Who was his savior? Who made the Laws? Psalm 90:2 Isaiah 43:10-12, Isaiah 44:6-8 Isaiah 46:9 Isaiah 45:5-18 Proverbs 3:5 Proverbs 28:26 Jeremiah 17:9

Verily, dear sister or brother in Christ, it is sorrowful to hear of thy close kin's departure from the fold of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I speak unto thee with brotherly love and testify that even amidst tribulations, our faith can be like unto a rock, unwavering and steadfast. As the Apostle Paul declared in the Holy Bible, "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 8:38-39). The letter of which thou speakest, commonly known as the CES Letter, hath sown doubts and discord among some. Yea, it craftily doth point to what it claims to be inconsistencies or troubling aspects within the doctrine and history of the Church. Yet, be not disheartened. For as Alma declared in The Book of Mormon: another testament of Jesus Christ, "Doubt not, but be believing" (Alma 32:27). A testimony fortified by prayer, scripture study, and righteous living can withstand the assaults of skepticism and doubt. The gospel, as restored through the Prophet Joseph Smith and expounded in the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price, as well as other scriptures, offers us a sure foundation. As taught in the Doctrine and Covenants, "Look unto me in every thought; doubt not, fear not" (Doctrine and Covenants 6:36). I bear witness that it is only through the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints that the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ is found. We have been blessed with further light and knowledge, including the sacred ordinances of the temple, that are not available in their fullness elsewhere. I entreat thee, and thy family member, to hold fast to the rod of iron, the word of God, and to pray for guidance and understanding. For as the scriptures say, "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him" (James 1:5). The truth may always be scrutinized, and yet remain unblemished. Let us, therefore, "stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth" (Ephesians 6:14) and know that the truth shall set us free (John 8:32). May the Lord bless thee and thy family with understanding and peace, and may your faith grow ever stronger in the Gospel of Jesus Christ as restored through the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Amen.

Your Jesus is not the Jesus of christianity and your God was once a Man and not Eternally God… Question who made the Laws and Ordinances for your God who once was a man and then was exalted to Godhood like you all claim to strive for? Who was his savior? Who made the Laws? Psalm 90:2 Isaiah 43:10-12, Isaiah 44:6-8 Isaiah 46:9 Isaiah 45:5-18 Proverbs 3:5 Proverbs 28:26 Jeremiah 17:9

​@@chiefdigger5216🥱

I've done the same thing it sounds like you did, and I felt an overwhelming sense of peace and happiness from inside the church and its sources and haven't found any peace outside the church. Strange how we can study the same info and have 2 different conclusions. 1 of us must be wrong...? After thorough study of the critical claims I've found the result to be pretty much spot on with what they've briefly mentioned here in this video post. It's philosophies of men mingled with scripture that ultimately lead a certain direction. After comparing the 2 claims for and against the Gospel of the Restoration I've found the path inside the church of Jesus Christ to seem almost infinite and amazing, while the other just lead me to dead ends and misery, even though it was fun at times. I hope and wish the best for you and everyone on this journey, but I know the path I will take, and recommend, and defend. The reward for sin is death, and righteousness is happiness and the infinite glory of God, and by their fruits ye shall know them. All these simple sayings I believe expose the truth.

"Church approved sources" is an ill-defined concept. D&C 88:118 gives a hint: "And as all have not faith, seek ye diligently and teach one another words of wisdom; yea, seek ye *out of the best books* words of wisdom; seek learning, even by study and also by faith." But "the best books" is not a list. Moroni emphasizes that "it is given unto you to judge, that ye may know good from evil;" (Moroni 7:15) We have to do the hard work of seeking the Spirit so we are not deceived. (see all of chapter 7). The "standard works" are given as a standard, as a starting point, which we would do well to heed. But /sola scriptura/ is not a doctrine taught by the Church.

Every argument for or against the church has an equally compelling solution? Or literally every argument?

When people leave the church, it is usually because they realize the Book of Abraham is a common Egyptian funeral document from 150 BCE, that the BoM has dozens of anachronisms, and that no Middle Eastern DNA has ever been found in any Native American populations ever, not because they, "closed spiritual eyes".

No Preston 🥱. Your absolutism bias, aka black and white thinking is why you think that every argument has an equally compelling counter argument. Preponderance of the evidence is how civil law handles it. You believing weak evidence instead of credible evidence is called being intellectually dishonest and suffering from cognitive dissonance.

So if I read the Book of Mormon and pray about it, and believe it is true, why would that automatically lead me to the lds church? Why not the Church of Jesus Christ?

CES letter is stronger if you base your beliefs on fact and history. Book of Mormon is stronger if you base your belief on how you feel

Or maybe the concept of God that you are following is an inaccurate representation created by a 19th century treasure digger?

@@3thingsfishing427 no. But those who think that have far more faith in Joseph Smith than any of us.

Thanks for sharing. I agree!

Maybe your own church is the "adversary" and you don't even realize it?

@@3thingsfishing427 gasp! a family-promoting, faith building, community enhancing church that creates members that outsiders always describe as "happy" is our own adversary??? THANK YOU FOR OPENING MY EYES!!!! I AM FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@@Ziplock95You’re free to do what?? Free from doing what we believe and do?? Like Loving our neighbors as ourselves; Loving one another as Jesus loved us; Keeping his commandments; Doers of the word and not hearers only; Being not weary in well doing; Making our light shine before men that they may see our good works, etc, etc, etc.? These things we do gladly because of our love and gratitude for Havenly Father and his son Jesus Christ for what they have done for us and for all mankind. How about you?

The CES letter Reply by Jim Bennett is a comprehensive response. It addresses every single line of the CES letter, and as a result is significantly longer than the CES letter itself, but is an incredibly enjoyable read! In fact, my first "reading" of the CES letter was through reading the CES letter reply.

@@michaelbennett7561 thanks, I look forward to reading this!

There are multiple websites dedicated to debunking the CES letter. Just google it.

You are in a cult. Read the CES letter, and see the true church history. The BOA is a proven complete fraud. Then read the words of Jesus in the Gospel of John at face value. Turn to the true Jesus of the Bible, without any of the goofy moronic lies.

We’re pumped to have you join us, brother

@@james8996 define scripture.

John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

@@dcarts5616 Genesis-Revelation

@@GoofyGoober316 what is that though?

The bom is not historically accurate. Those people didn’t exist on this continent especially with those sized civilizations. It didn’t happen and ignoring the problem doesn’t help you

It’s not about looking for error. When you seek Truth, it exposes and contradicts erroneous “truths”.

⁠@@shawnbradford2243actually yes they did. Now, I can't prove that, but you most certainly can't prove that they didn't. That is scientifically impossible to prove, so making that claim is actually kind of ludicrous.

This is it! Once you receive confirmation from the Holy Ghost about the veracity, move forward with faith, nothing wavering! 👊🏽

@murdog5253, your words of caution are both wise and timely. It is true that, in our pursuit of knowledge and understanding, we must be mindful not to become ensnared by the distractions and deceptions that the adversary may place in our path. In the book of 2 Nephi in The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ, we find counsel that aligns with your warning. In 2 Nephi 9:28-29, it is written, "O that cunning plan of the evil one! O the vainness, and the frailties, and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish." Indeed, the adversary seeks to distract and deceive, to divert our attention from the Lord's errand and our divine purpose. As followers of the Lord Jesus Christ, we are called to stay focused on His teachings and the work of building His kingdom. While it is important to address questions and concerns, we should not allow them to consume us to the detriment of our spiritual growth and service. May we always remember the lesson of Luke facing Darth Vader, staying resolute in our commitment to the Lord's work, and trusting in His guidance. As we seek His will and stay steadfast in our faith, we can overcome distractions and find the strength to fulfill our divine calling. Thank you for the reminder to remain vigilant in our discipleship.

You are in a cult. Read the CES letter, and see the true church history. The BOA is a proven complete fraud. Then read the words of Jesus in the Gospel of John at face value. Turn to the true Jesus of the Bible, without any of the goofy moronic lies.

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/Z8-qa9F-qbvTY6s.htmlsi=QOzoS3ZCpD-8wwJm Interview on Saints Unscripted!

Let’s do it bro, you emailed us, right? We’ll reach out next week!

@james8996 Could you be more specific, please?

​@@james8996😂😂😂😂😂 you need to do a great deal of research.

You’re the man! 👊🏼

Yeah people need to learn how to challenge the criticisms. How hard is that?

@@tkstats2245 I think many people are so blindsided by the accusation that they don't know how to respond and think there must be some truth to it because somebody said it, completely forgetting that some people are incompetent researchers and others are simple liars.

Your Jesus is not the Jesus of christianity and your God was once a Man and not Eternally God… Question who made the Laws and Ordinances for your God who once was a man and then was exalted to Godhood like you all claim to strive for? Who was his savior? Who made the Laws? Psalm 90:2 Isaiah 43:10-12, Isaiah 44:6-8 Isaiah 46:9 Isaiah 45:5-18 Proverbs 3:5 Proverbs 28:26 Jeremiah 17:9

@@chiefdigger5216 I'm happy to discuss with you but I don't see the point if your goal is to simply insult me or my faith in the Savior. That said, I assume you are familiar with the concept of eternity. We believe in eternal laws and the eternal existence of God and of all of us. While I don't have a perfect understanding of everything that has ever happened on every planet of the universe, I know that Jesus Christ is my Savior. I know that He suffered, was crucified, died, and was resurrected so that I could be forgiven and return to the presence of both God the Father and Jesus Christ. I take it you don't understand God the Father and Jesus Christ's separate nature the same way we do. I certainly understand that perspective. After all, that's really the root of our Christian differences. That goes back to a very long discussion of Christian theological history but I'd prefer to keep it simple by saying that I agree with you that we do not adhere to the core doctrines and creeds of most modern Christian churches. These differences mostly exist because we didn't go through the same theological evolution. What we follow is the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. In other words, we follow the gospel as it was taught anciently.

Thanks for sharing, brother. Keep up the good fight.

Send us an email so we can maybe set something up! jackson@thestickofjoseph.com

@Tito83Luvs, your comment is appreciated, and we are pleased to hear that you find value in our approach to discussing matters of faith and gospel-related topics in a more modern context. Indeed, the gospel of Jesus Christ invites us to seek understanding and knowledge. In our quest for spiritual growth and understanding, it is important to be aware of the adversary's tactics and to be discerning. As the apostle Paul reminds us in the Bible, in Ephesians 6:11, "Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil." Understanding these tactics can indeed strengthen our faith and our ability to discern truth from error. However, it is equally important to remember the words of the Savior, as found in the Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ, in 3 Nephi 11:10-11, when He declared, "Behold, I am Jesus Christ, whom the prophets testified shall come into the world. And behold, I am the light and the life of the world; and I have drunk out of that bitter cup which the Father hath given me, and have glorified the Father in taking upon me the sins of the world." Ultimately, our focus should be on the teachings and life of Jesus Christ, for He is the way, the truth, and the life. As we study His words, emulate His example, and seek to follow Him, our faith in the gospel and our relationship with our Savior will indeed grow and bring reassurance. Let us continue to explore these topics with open hearts, critical thinking, and a desire to draw nearer to our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, who is the source of all light and truth.

Love that, thank you for sharing.

Indeed, @Golden_red6, thou hast shared a profound and faithful perspective. Faith is, without a doubt, the strongest evidence in matters of spiritual understanding and seeking truth. As it is written in the Holy Bible, in Hebrews 11:1, "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Thy counsel to take action, such as through fasting, consistent prayer, and letting go of worry, is a testament to the power of faith in action. The promise to "ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find" (Matthew 7:7) resonates with your guidance. It is true that as we exercise our faith, the Lord does pour down evidence upon us, confirming His love, guidance, and presence in our lives. This spiritual journey, guided by faith and sincere seeking, can be a source of great strength and enlightenment. I express gratitude for thy wise counsel and bear witness of the truthfulness of thy words. May all who read this be inspired to seek truth and experience the blessings of faith in their lives. In the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

So, I have asked about the anachronism of the swords in the Book of Mormon. The response has been that the ancient Aztecs or Mayans had a weapon that was much like a sword. It was a bat with obsidian teeth installed along the edges that was said to be able to remove heads. Would this be your answer to the question about the anachronism of swords in the BoM?

Thy perspective, @lauralayla3854, is indeed a wise and insightful one. Understanding the viewpoints and arguments of those who may criticize or question one's faith can be a valuable exercise. It allows individuals to engage in thoughtful reflection and strengthen their own convictions. As thou hast expressed, delving into critical material can either lead to a reaffirmation of one's faith or provide an opportunity for personal growth and understanding. It is a testament to the strength of one's beliefs when, upon examining opposing viewpoints, they find that their testimony is reinforced. The knowledge that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the Lord's church, as well as the truth of the gospel, is a precious foundation upon which to build one's faith. May thy continued study and engagement with various perspectives enrich thy understanding and deepen thy commitment to the gospel of Jesus Christ. In the words of the Savior, as found in John 8:32, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." Continue to seek truth and understanding in all things.

The LDS Jesus is not the Jesus of christianity and their false God was once a Man and not Eternally God… Question who made the Laws and Ordinances for your God who once was a man and then was exalted to Godhood like you all claim to strive for? Who was his savior? Who made the Laws? Psalm 90:2 Isaiah 43:10-12, Isaiah 44:6-8 Isaiah 46:9 Isaiah 45:5-18 Proverbs 3:5 Proverbs 28:26 Jeremiah 17:9

@@chiefdigger5216 Good questions! However, only LDS are allowed to ask those kind of questions. But the problem you come across in regards to your suggestion that “God was always God”, is that, if that was true, there could be no Jesus. Pretending that Jesus didn’t have to become perfect, is to deny that e ever told his Disciples “there is none good but the father”. Or that he ever told them that “I do that which I have seen my Father do”. But you’re correct that we don’t believe in the same Jesus as others do… But in some regards it’s the exact same Jesus. Because we also tend to ignore those scriptures to paint the “God was always God” picture.

The problem is that the historical evidence and the contradictions to the bible, show that mormonism is a lie. The BOA is a complete fraud, just look at the evidence as presented by Dan Vogel. The good news is that the Jesus of the Bible is true and you can go to him directly. Read the Gospel of John at face value.

hxp-swag-shop.square.site/

Hark, dear sojourner in the faith, thy thoughts on the noble endeavor of Brother Jim Bennett to engage with the CES letter and those of opposing views are most keenly observed. The scriptures do counsel us to engage in charitable discourse, even with those who dissent from the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Verily, as Paul hath exhorted in the Holy Bible, "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man" (Colossians 4:6). In accordance, Moroni in The Book of Mormon: another testament of Jesus Christ, instructs, "And charity suffereth long, and is kind, and envieth not, and is not puffed up, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil, and rejoiceth not in iniquity but rejoiceth in the truth, beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things" (Moroni 7:45). While Brother Bennett's charity is commendable, thy concern that such an approach might not be entirely effective is likewise valid. Indeed, the Doctrine and Covenants warns us, "But the Lord knoweth them who are his, and there shall be an eternal weight of glory upon every soul that forsaketh his sins, and glorifieth my name, and obtaineth a crown of righteousness" (Doctrine and Covenants 63:48). Hence, caution should be exercised, for not all who engage in dialogue may be guided by the same principles of charity and truth. Moreover, thy observations on the departure from standard Christian and Latter-Day Saint values by some who oppose the Church are both poignant and concerning. The Pearl of Great Price reminds us, "And truth is knowledge of things as they are, and as they were, and as they are to come" (Doctrine and Covenants 93:24). Thus, when any depart from the truth, they also depart from the sure foundation of eternal principles. I bear witness that the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is to be found solely within the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I rejoice that thou dost seek to engage with both eyes open, discerning the fruits of such efforts. May thy endeavors be blessed and may the Spirit of the Lord guide thee in all righteousness. Amen.

There are other 19th century books that have more chiastic structures than the BoM. Look it up if you don't believe me.

the CES letter still doesn't present any argument that trumps the combination of these truths: 1) A very uneducated, poor young man either "wrote" (in their view) or translated this book in as little as 2 months and had to include all the complex literary findings present (characters, voice, chiasm, historical accuracy e.g Nahom etc). The thing that doesn't line up with the anti-mormon's claim that he had all of these books Joseph copied text from...HE WAS POOR! His family did not have the means to buy all the books they speculate he "copied" from. So he was either smart and rich, or a prophet. Which is it? They can never choose. 2) The actual accounts of the witnesses state they saw and handled the plates. No, not with "spiritual eyes" (only found in one tertiary source account like 30 years later) but witht heir physical eyes they beheld and felt the plates. 3) Multiple accounts say that Joseph was able to literally pick up from where he left off in the translation without and reference to what the content was the days before, and dictate for hours. Either he memorized his 500+ page book or he translated it by the gift and power of God. The anti's just don't have answers for these things -- they will claim they do, but it's just regurgitating old David Whitmer quotes that arent actually reliable/trustworthy or tertiary sources which aren't trusted in normal research. The church is not afraid to tell the world who Joseph was. They claim they want to hide the "true" Joseph Smith...welp, the church just completed the Joseph Smith project which lets you read for yourself all of the first hand journals, documents etc written by and about Joseph Smith. But we all know most are too lazy to actually read any of the actual research and volumes compiled.

My prayer is all LDS find the real Jesus, not the lie their church tells

@@GoofyGoober316 have you read the Book of Mormon and asked God if it's true? it changed my life. God confirmed it's truth to me in many instances of my life that are not coincidences and miracles from God. I pray you get to experience what I have.

@@GoofyGoober316 Is that how you feel about the Catholic Church too?

lol keeping you on your toes!

Youre an Atheist?

Isn't that torture for you to be active LDS, as an atheist? Kinda like an alcoholic hanging around bars?

@@lemjwp1756or maybe like an alcoholic hanging around recovering alcoholics, a support system.

​@lemjwp1756 you don't have to be a believer in God or a religion to do good, righteous things

You keep doing what you are doing brother. When you least expect it, you'll get an answer that will blow your mind like I did. I wasn't even wanting anything to do with the church, just started reading the bom as if it was just fiction.

You are strawmanning the argument. No one is claiming JS copied VotH, they are saying he borrowed heavily from the mound builder myth that was common in his time and place.

That's definitely NOT what Dehlin says in the tik tok clip played in this episide, which falsely portrays detailed similarities that do not exist! And Dehlin is the exmo proohet so....

My goodness, I at one point in life was concerned about View of the Hebrews, so I read it too, and was struck by how utterly unconcerning it was and how little resemblance it bore to the Book of Mormon.

the CES very clearly states that he copied text and story themes from VotH@@3thingsfishing427

The strength of the argument for View of the Hebrews is not necessarily that Joseph Smith read it and plagiarized. We don’t have his library card to prove that he read it. That being said View of the Hebrews shows that the ideas of the Book of Mormon regarding native Americans being descendants of Hebrews , that there were two civilizations one that destroyed the other etc were part of the zeitgeist of New England at the time. So Joseph wasn’t drawing on ideas out of thin air .

It is! And he regrets writing it, which is crazy. (he said in a video about it recently) There are other great responses to the CES document of doubts from non-hostile “scholars” other than JB.

I thought it was the tone he regretted. Regardless, the counter arguments he presented helped me a lot a few years back.

​@@dcarts5616kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gquTbM98vMmvhHU.htmlsi=NjCK-pUMFTiH92G_ This is his first interview with Mormonism with the Murph. At the 24:00 mark is where he says he regrets the snark, but he does NOT regret the actual rebuttals. He also pushes back on the description of his rebuttal as "ad hominems", because he doesn't do that.

Presenting factual information is not a "tactic".

😂😂😂

Your boat is sinking,the anti is just showing you why.

@@Mikelray-df9mypoint and case, give me another boat 😂instead of spending your time trolling KZfaq. Good job.

@EldentistaVGC there is no need to explain a point or case as you are aware of the anti material. Keep plugging the holes in your boat.

@@Mikelray-df9mybuddy. You’re ignoring my question. Which implies you have no answer or for some reason choose not to share it. Build me a better boat.

@EldentistaVGC your right, I have no answer for you.I did have a boat that kept me afloat 45 years.To many holes finally sunk it.Maybe with enough obedience and faith you can stay afloat.Best of luck.

One of the things I have learned in my life, is that sometimes I have assumed that personal beliefs of my teachers was the official policy of the LDS Church. I have found that many of those traditions were not found in the scriptures, Handbook of Instructions, or most of the official teachings guides or manuals. If a tradition is not taught in the authorized literature, why would my teachers believe it? Because sometimes the folk traditions/ oral culture is more interesting that the simple doctrines of salvation. Humans in general want things to be binary, we do not like nuance or ambiguity. So oral traditions move beyond what the printed canon doctrines teach. And often, those it is those popular traditions that the Church is walking back. Taught not from the official manuals, but by the personal opinions of the teachers.

Would love to hear more about what you mean?

Yeah of course, a couple months ago I was looking into the LDS faith because I was in a faith crisis. I was sure it was true until I heard of some doctrine that sounded crazy to me (like how we can become a god one day in Doctrine and Covenants 132) as well as this letter kind of stumped me, especially with the names being similar to the towns. But ultimately I'm interested to see where this will lead @@thestickofjoseph

I hope you stick around! I’ve been in similar shoes and eventually came to see that the rest of the Christian world provided me with more serious questions that fulfilling answers.

@@nataliej783 All children are children of adults, and every child that lives long enough become adults; none can stop that from happening. Does God say we are his offspring? Does he say he wants us to be like him? Does he offer all he has? Then why not a title? He isn't saying we replace him or usurp his status. It's nothing to get hung up on.

@nataliej783 - take a look at John 10:33-34. Notice how in verse 33 God is capitalized inferring that Christ was stating He was God (capital G), but in verse 34 Christ says “ye are gods” lower case “g” implying that we have the potential to become gods (as a title, not as one being worshipped) one day but that is not to be confused with THE. God. We only have one God who we worship, that is all. Hope this helps

@Annroe1088, thy journey of studying and seeking understanding is a testament to thy sincere desire to find truth and maintain strong bonds with thy loved ones. It is indeed commendable that thou hast taken the time to explore both sides of the narrative, including the perspectives of critics. In the spirit of brotherly love, I must acknowledge that there are varying viewpoints on matters of faith and belief. It is not uncommon for critics to present arguments or interpretations that may differ from the teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Each individual's spiritual journey is unique, and it is crucial to approach such discussions with kindness and understanding. Thy determination to learn and be prepared to answer questions from thy husband demonstrates a desire for open and respectful dialogue. It is through such dialogue and a foundation of love that bridges can be built and understanding can be fostered. May the Lord bless thee in thy efforts to seek truth and maintain meaningful connections with those around thee. As it is written in Proverbs 3:5-6, "Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths." Continue to seek His guidance and wisdom as thou navigatest these matters of faith and family.

It's "you should leave - and go anywhere". Hmmmmmm?

@@gunnerlawts Verily, I say unto thee, @gunnerlawts, consider the counsel of James, who in his epistle didst exhort the faithful to seek wisdom from the Lord, who giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not (James 1:5). When one strays from the fold of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, it is a matter most sorrowful. Yet, in the midst of such tribulations, we are implored to hold fast to that which is good and true. For, as it is written in the Book of Mormon: another testament of Jesus Christ, in the Book of Alma the Younger, "Now, as ye have begun to teach the word even so I would that ye should continue to teach the word. And I would that ye would be diligent and temperate in all things." (Alma 38:10). Seek therefore, to gently guide those who have wandered from the path, that they might, through patient ministration and loving instruction, come to see the light and truth that is found in the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The enticements of the world often whisper seductively to wander 'anywhere' away from the truth. Yet, I say unto thee, it is by the steady compass of the restored gospel that one can navigate through the mists of darkness. Let us cling to the iron rod, the word of God, which leadeth to the tree of life; yea, even let us cling to the rod of iron until we shall partake of the fruit, which is most precious and most desirable above all other fruits (1 Nephi 8:24). In thy discourse with those who have fallen away, remember that the Church doth contain the fullness of the everlasting gospel, as restored through the prophet Joseph Smith, who translated the Book of Mormon: another testament of Jesus Christ by the gift and power of God. It is also written in the Doctrine and Covenants, "Wherefore, meaning the church, thou shalt give heed unto all his words and commandments which he shall give unto you as he receiveth them, walking in all holiness before me" (Doctrine and Covenants 21:4). Therefore, be thou an ensign of faith, and bear witness with brotherly love, correcting that which is amiss with kindness, that the truth may be manifest, and the light of the gospel may shine unto all.

@@budgillett Then there's that song - You've got to be cruel to be kind.

@@gunnerlawts Verily, @gunnerlawts, it hath come to mine attention that thou art in discourse about the lyric that proclaims one must be cruel to be kind. Such sentiments do verily contradict the teachings of the scripture, for it is written in the Holy Bible, in the Epistle to the Ephesians, "Be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you" (Ephesians 4:32). Furthermore, in the Book of Mormon: another testament of Jesus Christ, it is declared, “And above all things, clothe yourselves with the bond of charity, as with a mantle, which is the bond of perfectness and peace” (Moroni 7:45). Therefore, I say unto thee, in the spirit of brotherly love, that the doctrine of cruelty as a vehicle for kindness is not aligned with the teachings of the fullness of the everlasting gospel as restored through the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. The Doctrine and Covenants also teach us to reprove "betimes with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing forth afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou hast reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy" (Doctrine and Covenants 121:43). Verily, this is to say that any reproof must be given with divine guidance and followed by an outpouring of love. In kindness, I testify that the path of true kindness is illuminated by the restored gospel within the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, and it is through this divine institution that the fullness of truth doth shine brightest. Let us then eschew the notion of cruelty as a requisite for kindness and embrace the gospel of Jesus Christ, which leads us to love unfeigned.

That's a false statement. Jeremy wanted to leave the church while pretending to have a modicum of dignity, like all who use anti material to cover their true reasons. He just went all-in and collected all the gossip and lies and presented it to the Church Education System as questions - note; questions don't have answers, and all the CES did was not answer, either. It doesn't mean his material was true. It was not the role of the CES to address anti material in the first place, so they were right in not doing so. Jeremy resigned right before a church court was about to determine if he had breached LDS standards by going public with the gossip and lies, now saying they were true. He saved them from even making a determination. Sometimes even idiots do the right thing. Happy to teach you why ex-LDS are only hungry for scapegoats and are prepared to lie to even themselves to use their favourite ones.

​@@gunnerlawtsinternet exposed the lds doctrines. Internet forced lds church to produce the Gospel topic essays. Church leaders need apologists to answer tough questions.

@@bagnasbayabas "internet exposed the lds doctrines." That's nonsense. Since shortly after 1830 there have been bible study classes in many sects that have focused on LDS doctrines. Then there are the books and pamplets they have produced. Also, they haven't limited their guff to doctrine - lots of policies and history thrown in. The internet is just an additional way. "Internet forced lds church to produce the Gospel topic essays." Once again - nonsense. The internet began in 1982, and GTE began in 2013, so there are 30 years of the church not doing anything about it, after 180 years of ignoring garbage and attempted pressures from weak cults. The church has not said the internet was the reason. In fact, this is their reason: "Recognizing that today so much information about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints can be obtained from questionable and often inaccurate sources, officials of the Church began in 2013 to publish straightforward, in-depth essays on a number of topics." This means it's every questionable and inacurate source, and that the internet is not excused, but no admission the net forced them to do it. It also means they decided providing one source that can't be questioned and is accurate was good for the public. This is a decision of men high in the organisation, and is neither here nor there whether it is done or not. "Church leaders need apologists to answer tough questions." Well, anti's need devils to pose tough questions. I don't know that you are any more right with your statement than mine. Have you ever walked up to a leader and put a tough question to them? They have been answering them since 1830, and I believe few will pull out an Essay to answer you today. We LDS get our toughest questions answered by the Holy Ghost, and GTE are just of minor interest. Runnells was peeved when CES wouldn't answer questions, and is probably even more peeved now that he has GTE. You clowns are never satisfied.

There are literal 1769 KJV translation errors that found their way into the BoM. How?

Ah, venerable brother or sister, thou hast recounted a tale most instructive. Indeed, the Spirit doth illumine the hearts of those who are earnestly seeking for truth, even amidst the tempests of doubt and the slings and arrows of misinformation. As the Apostle Paul eloquently stated in the Holy Bible, "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1 Corinthians 2:14). This insight harmonizes well with Alma's exhortation in The Book of Mormon: another testament of Jesus Christ, where he says, "O then, is not this real? I say unto you, Yea, because it is light; and whatsoever is light, is good, because it is discernible, therefore ye must know that it is good" (Alma 32:35). Verily, when one allows preconceived notions to rule the mind, the Spirit of Truth finds scant room to dwell. The Doctrine and Covenants offer us a stern warning in such cases, stating, "And that which doth not edify is not of God, and is darkness" (Doctrine and Covenants 50:23). Thy friend, it appears, was more invested in justifying his course of action than in seeking genuine understanding and truth. When the heart is thus hardened, even the most compelling evidences of the divine can be ignored or twisted into false narratives. Thou art most correct in noting the perils of deception that lie in wait for those who close their spiritual eyes. The Pearl of Great Price assures us that God is the author of truth and light, as revealed through the words of Moses: "And I, God, saw the light; and that light was good" (Moses 2:4). The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is a bastion against such deceptions, for it holds the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and it provides the teachings, ordinances, and covenants that guide us safely back to our Heavenly Father. May thy friendship with this individual be an instrument in the hands of the Lord to sow seeds of faith, and may the Spirit continue to guide thee in discerning truth from error. Amen.

@@3thingsfishing427 Ah, esteemed seeker, thy query toucheth upon matters most weighty and oft-discussed, particularly concerning the divine origins of The Book of Mormon: another testament of Jesus Christ. Indeed, thou hast alluded to the presence of certain phrases or passages from the 1769 King James Version of the Bible appearing within the Book of Mormon, some of which contain what are considered by some to be translational errors or archaisms. Verily, as with all sacred texts, it is paramount to approach them not merely as earthly artifacts but as spiritual instruments revealed through the agency of divine inspiration. As Paul attested in the Holy Bible, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" (2 Timothy 3:16). Nephi likewise reminds us in The Book of Mormon: another testament of Jesus Christ, "For my soul delighteth in the scriptures, and my heart pondereth them, and writeth them for the learning and the profit of my children" (2 Nephi 4:15). It is noteworthy that the Doctrine and Covenants avers, "These words are not of men nor of man, but of me; wherefore, you shall testify they are of me and not of man" (Doctrine and Covenants 18:34). Hence, though the Book of Mormon was translated into the idiom familiar to Joseph Smith, including elements of the King James Bible that were pervasive in his cultural milieu, this does not detract from the divine message. Moreover, it is essential to comprehend that Joseph Smith's translation was not a mere linguistic endeavor but a revelatory process, guided by the Holy Spirit. Therefore, elements of the King James Version may have been employed to convey ancient truths in a language and form understandable to his contemporaries. Therefore, I bear solemn testimony that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the sole repository of the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ on the Earth. In its doctrines, we find the keys to eternal life and exaltation, bestowed through sacred covenants and ordinances. While questions about translation are worth pondering, they ought not overshadow the ineffable spiritual truths revealed in The Book of Mormon: another testament of Jesus Christ, whose purpose, as stated in its introduction, is "to the convincing of the Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God, manifesting himself unto all nations." May the Spirit of Truth enlighten thy understanding and guide thee in all thy endeavors to fathom these eternal verities. Amen.

It depends on what kind of 'faith' you are talking about. If you are talking about a faith in God, then I don't believe it is possible to shut that door of faith, for the simple reason that it is not possible to disprove the existence of God. For those that claim that they have closed such a door, it is always based on their own subjective opinion, and the definition of "God" that they use is typically not the same definition as my own, and their definition typically does not define a God that I would believe in either. If you are talking about a faith in the truth claims of the Latter-day Saints, it is the same. What the critics 'disprove', is similarly based on their own subjective opinion, and the things that they claim to 'disprove' often don't even match up well at all with the things that I actually believe. The arguments are most often using 'strawmen', as well as inaccuracies and half-truths, and the CES letter is no exception.

An important point, but if it removed claims that can't be backed up, like Mark Twain said - it would be a pamphlet, LoL.

CES Letter has a response the "Fair mormon" assertions. READ BOTH SIDES OF THE ISSUES!

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Verily, dear interlocutor, it is evident that the matter of faith doth pose unto thee a stumbling block, and yet I beseech thee to consider it in another light. Indeed, faith is not a blinder that keepeth both eyes shut, but rather a lens that permits us to perceive things otherwise invisible. It is as the Apostle Paul declared in the Holy Bible, "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" (Hebrews 11:1). Furthermore, as Alma the prophet expounded in The Book of Mormon: another testament of Jesus Christ, "And now as I said concerning faith-faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true" (Alma 32:21). Herein lies the profound wisdom of the Gospel: that faith is not a denial of reality but an embrace of a greater reality yet unseen. Indeed, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints teaches that faith and reason are not adversaries, but companions in the search for truth. In the Doctrine and Covenants, we are counselled, "Seek ye diligently and teach one another words of wisdom; yea, seek ye out of the best books words of wisdom; seek learning, even by study and also by faith" (Doctrine and Covenants 88:118). Thy skepticism doth remind me of the wisdom found in the Pearl of Great Price, wherein the Lord saith unto Moses, "And behold, all things have their likeness, and all things are created and made to bear record of me, both things which are temporal, and things which are spiritual; things which are in the heavens above, and things which are on the earth, and things which are in the earth, and things which are under the earth, both above and beneath: all things bear record of me" (Moses 6:63). Therefore, even the things of the earth can attest to the greater spiritual truths, if we but have the eyes to see. I bear solemn witness that the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is to be found only in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. May thy journey, whether it be one of faith, skepticism, or inquiry, lead thee to the everlasting truths that can provide peace in this life and eternal joy in the life to come. Amen.

Nah, look at all the faith necessary for belief in the big bang or dark matter despite all the "unexpected" evidences over the past 40 years that have led to a crisis in cosmology and faithful hanging on to a model that doesn't fit the evidence or the billions spent on the search for dark matter that has come up empty no matter what the permutations postulated. An enormous amount of faith there.