Recording Drums, Part I: Overhead Mic Placements Compared

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Күн бұрын

Join Justin Colletti and SonicScoop for this in-depth look at overhead mic techniques.
► Want more? Learn to mix better than ever before with our FREE workshop, "The Top 5 Habits of Truly Great Mixers": sonicscoop.com/MixHabits ◀
Filmed at Strange Weather Brooklyn, and using microphones provided by Sennheiser, this video covers how to set up overhead mics using some of the most popular and flexible methods in history, including: XY, ORTF, Spaced Pair, Glyn Johns, and the classic "Mono Overhead" approach.
Each of the sound clips in this episode consist of no more than 4 mics: A pair of overheads, plus close mics on kick and snare. The overhead mics are a pair of Sennheiser e914s, the kick and snare mics are the e902 and e905, also by Sennheiser.
All the clips are presented with no EQ, compression, or effects processing of any kind.
Stay tuned for additional sound clips, plus our upcoming episodes on close mics and room mic techniques!
For more videos in this series, subscribe below, or sign up for our newsletter at SonicScoop.com
Watch "Recording Drums, Part II: Close Mic Techniques" here: • Recording Drums, Part ...
Watch "Recording Drums, Part III: Placing Room Mics" here: • Recording Drums, Part ...
For more on Sennheiser's Evolution Series microphones, visit: bit.ly/1csnjL5
This series was shot and edited by Elias Gwinn of Velidoxi.

Пікірлер: 314

@TheHouseofKushTV 4 жыл бұрын

Man, Glyn Johns always gets the tone of the snare in a place I love. I think if you skewed your centerline to align with the kick-snare axis you'd get a more focused image on the kick. I'm glad the drummer's qualuuds kicked in for the session, keeps him nicely in the pocket!

@SonicScoop 4 жыл бұрын

Yes, if we were making this video again, we’d definitely show the 45 degree trick for spaced pair. It gives the cymbals less stereo spread, but does center both kick and snare. Thanks for the kind words. Means a lot coming from you guys! -Justin

@sottilario7213 4 жыл бұрын

@@SonicScoop That would be awesome to show. Thanks a lot for this one!

@D4nNy777 10 жыл бұрын

Glyn Johns was my fav

@harveylopezt 8 жыл бұрын

For more precise comparison: XY 3:08 ORTF 3:20 Spaced pair 6:22 Glyn Johns 6:35 Mono 7:16

@chazzhill-hayr6281 7 жыл бұрын

How do you do that btw? The links to the time in the video? Thanks :-)

@rcboffa 7 жыл бұрын

All you have to do is put the time in your comment...the rest is magic... 5:10

@chazzhill-hayr6281 7 жыл бұрын

hahaha. Oh it's that easy! Damn. lol.

@SteveStockmalMusic 6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for doing that !!!

@jaygroov 8 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the video! One quick tip for the next one: When you do a comparison with different techniques, pleas play the clips continuously right next to each other. Always, no exceptions. No fades, no breaks. At least do this at the end of video when everything has been explained already. Any break between different setups makes the listening and difference comparison very difficult for the human brain as the context is immediately lost. Playing the clips continuously helps a ton especially when we're dealing with very subtle differences.

@youryella 4 жыл бұрын

You can ask him. Please, will you ask him? Don't appreciate your demands. And yes, I would to see your ideas implemented.

@johnreid1234 10 ай бұрын

3:08 XY 3:20 ORTF 6:22 Spaced Pair 6:35 Glyn Johns 7:16 Mono

@ROCKSTARCRANE 10 жыл бұрын

Exellent presentation. As an engineer with 47 years' experience, I can appreciate this. Important to note that the least amount of phase cancellation will be with the X-Y.

@indivisibleman Жыл бұрын

I have made it my mission to aggressively improve my drum recording technique. I loved this. The "instant" comparisons are awesome and let me know "what I like" right away. Thank you! I never knew what to call these options! Thank you

@VictorOrlandoNieto 10 жыл бұрын

Superb three-video series. Thanks for putting material like this.

@samchoate1719 Жыл бұрын

What a gem of a video. I've always done a spaced pair since getting enough inputs for everything, but before that I did glyn johns and had a lot of fun with it! Dug out my garage sale stereo bar and am gonna try ORTF now. Thank you!

@tgtech570 10 жыл бұрын

as both a drummer and a recording engineer this is a great detailed video! thank you so much!

@dsrecs 9 жыл бұрын

For Comparison; XY 3:07 ORTF 3:19 Spaced pair 6:20 Glyn Johns 6:34

@galgogergo 9 жыл бұрын

dsrecs this should be the top comment!

@harveylopezt 9 жыл бұрын

dsrecs There is always a good youtuber. Thanks man.

@Honeythebeebee 9 жыл бұрын

dsrecs you forgot the mono one! 7:16

@BraveMusicOficial 5 жыл бұрын

Nobody likes the mono one Lol! Just kidding!

@horstbucholtz 6 ай бұрын

Great videos! They are easy to understand and offer a lot of great information. Thanks.

@mccloysong 7 жыл бұрын

Brilliant. Very informative. I always did the wide spacing overheads and panned them 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock to start, adjusting input levels until the snare was centered. Since the kick had its own mic, I could pan it microscopically to compensate for whatever off center the O/H's made it. The reason I always go with the wide panning kit is that straight-up-the-middle can interfere with the vocal. Only the bass, kick and vocal get center panning

@MrJvandal 10 жыл бұрын

This is a great video. Detailed, clear and great sound quality. Big up SonicScoopVideo !

@Tc558 9 жыл бұрын

Great video thanks, I love that the drummer seems to be looking at you from the sofa with 'what is this guy doing' face

@magicdjinn 9 жыл бұрын

Awesome vid!! didn't know about the Glyn Johns and I really liked it, I'm trying it tomorrow!

@ricksalt6860 9 жыл бұрын

Good sounding room , kinda puts the High Ceiling a Must theory to bed . Really nice touch Parker , probably sound good playing any kit . Great video , top quality audio .

@billyg.7032 Жыл бұрын

Awesome how well you can notice the stereo, kind of panning sound across the drums!. Very nice video.

@Choinsta 9 жыл бұрын

great tute.. I just had a session the other week with just ribbon mics.. using ortf and over the shoulder and about 6 more lol... sounded dope... Loved your classic set ups... thank you Ivan K

@Trig242 10 жыл бұрын

This looks to be a great series of videos. Thanks very much!

@Gornagik 6 жыл бұрын

I think part of the reason Glyn Johns sounds so good in this video is that it captures the hi-hat more than any other technique. Definitely something to consider

@ManoGiba 8 жыл бұрын

Best OH tips I`ve seen here in KZfaq ! Thanks a lot ! Cheers.

@comfortsound713 5 жыл бұрын

I feel that this video will help everyone who wants to try drum mic'ing. And, as a person who was so impressed, I want to upload and share this video on my channel with Korean translation if it's possible. That's because I want to try studying about the audio recording in more details. I'm planning to translate another videos about recording more and more for Korean, and of course, for me. I wish you will let me that. This is Peter Park from South Korea. Thank You :D

@sockysworld8010 10 жыл бұрын

Glyn Johns method sounds great especially for rock. Mono sounds more hip hop and R'n'B. Spaced paired would be great for some far out music maybe inspired by the 60's. XY is quite snare heavy i prefer the ORTF which is more balanced and classic Awesome video!!

@trac6 9 жыл бұрын

These video's have helped me a lot. Thanks for sharing some of your techniques, man.

@TheSoundConnoisseur 5 жыл бұрын

One of my favorite videos out here. I find myself coming back to it every now and then

@nlgeorgelos 4 жыл бұрын

same lol, great vid

@SoundweaversRecording 10 жыл бұрын

awesome sounding kit!

@fuzzylightning 7 жыл бұрын

That kit sounds AMAZING!

@elliek6415 10 жыл бұрын

Great video. Please keep these coming.

@dramado 7 жыл бұрын

I used the Glyn Johns technique that you suggested and it worked out great. Good video!

@verttigoficial 4 жыл бұрын

This video is so awesome!

@busyboxst7 10 жыл бұрын

One of the few how-to videos where the sounds actually sound good / mixable and not all overly "studio" / "produced". Great job! The Glyn brought a nice sweetness to the snare wires and hats that wasn't there as much on the others, more of that airy "action" sound, kinda cloudy / puffy. That and the mono setup were my faves.

@EmilianoMarcle 10 жыл бұрын

the best video on youtube about drum recording!

@garymould912 2 жыл бұрын

We had a 7 mic setup in our drum booth. It sounded poor due to comb filtering/phase issues. We tried the X-Y pattern with overhead condensers. Mixing that with just a kick mic and a snare mic, the sound is clear, natural and in phase. The live drums now sound perfect in the house mix. Thank you!

@itsricksnowden 10 жыл бұрын

this is a really great video. thank you

@djscorpie 10 жыл бұрын

thanks for sharing!! amazing video !!

@declanmurray 10 жыл бұрын

Thanks man great video!

@snjert8406 4 жыл бұрын

Thank goodness. I needed to know this.

@timmyg4295 10 жыл бұрын

Great video!

@jacobsmith1877 3 жыл бұрын

Recorderman technique will center your kick and snare. You can also use the Recorderman triangular measurement technique to find great placement options for all overhead mic setups including spaced pair, ORTF; even XY can benefit from being placed on a Recorderman-style triangulated axis

@avasound 10 жыл бұрын

Amazing video!

@pepe7drum 10 жыл бұрын

i like that guy! he is awesome and he put it so simple! thank you so much i would defenetly try all those techniques

@BrianMagnan 9 жыл бұрын

Been looking for something just like the Glyn Johns approach, I'm gonna try it out today!

@blueleafstudio 4 жыл бұрын

These are some of my favourite videos of yours I've seen Justin :) They really cut the chat and get to the point!

@SonicScoop 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks! We like to keep them tight and sweet when we do tutorial videos. The podcast is another story :) That's where we go deep and try to hammer home new and better habits.

@skeetabomb 3 ай бұрын

Great video. Thanks! Very interesting the Glyn Johns method. With IEMs, the difference is quite obvious. I will play around with these on my 13 piece.... 8P

@RiotHomeRecording 6 жыл бұрын

I like that drum kit!

@mrjackieson 8 жыл бұрын

George Massenburg made a series of videos where he talked about centering the kick and the snare between the overheads. That way both kick and snare stay centered in the stereo image and phase is kept at a minimum. This can be used with spaced pair or XY. It doesn't make sense to space the pair directly in front of the kit - the snare ends up off to the side in the overheads and centered on the close mic, smearing your stereo image. Check out his video on micing drums. He invented the parametric EQ, he's pretty smart. I've tried this technique many times and it's much better sounding than centering in front of kit. Stand in front of the kit and move until the kick and snare are directly in line: that's your center point. Space your overheads equidistant from this point.

@donpakka 4 жыл бұрын

I've been doing that ever since I watched the video and it's so much cleaner than any of the above techniques. I do minimal miking these days . A stereo pair aligned according to the G.M. technique, a kick drum mic and a ribbon pointing into the snare that captures both the top and bottom and combines them.

@JeserNoob 3 жыл бұрын

Is this a copypasta?

@sl3102 Жыл бұрын

The Recorder Man technique is similar to Glyn Johns but takes both kick and snare in consideration, and it does a pretty good job. It sounds tighter and is less sensitive to bad rooms.

@tn707149 3 жыл бұрын

Good introduction.thx

@demevfilms 2 жыл бұрын

This just helped me do my homework! 💪🏽

@musicbySTIX 9 жыл бұрын

Thank you very much for this video! It was extremely well done! Very thorough! It really helped a lot! =D

@diwattos 2 жыл бұрын

Glyn John is my favorite thank you

@jrileyhill 5 жыл бұрын

always fun to see micing techniques for drums.

@DwainSchmidt 8 жыл бұрын

Good stuff , thanks ♫

@rundown306 10 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@theroll666 7 жыл бұрын

thank you!

@SuperIamsmart 7 жыл бұрын

thank you actually going to class confident this really helped

@jamiedonnelly2029 7 жыл бұрын

Great video, we carry out similar experiments during our Recording Studio Sound Engineering module with first years. Expectation Bias always leaves me pleasantly surprised with a Mono overhead! I always find Glyn Johns to be a little unbalanced due to the spatialisation difference between the Floor Tom and Rack Tom, however, it sounded really well balanced in the room in this video!

@customdrumtracksonlinedrum4960 8 жыл бұрын

Great video,.. nice job,

@BillBrolse 7 жыл бұрын

The Glyn Johns method made that snare sound great. Could an additional overhead help with the width?

@sartoriusrock 6 жыл бұрын

When "centering" the mic placement for spaced pair, I often try to center both kick and snare! I'll use a mic cable to measure an imaginary plane between the center of the snare and the center of the kick, and then use that plane as my center reference.

@JacobColemandrums 9 жыл бұрын

Sooooo needed this! Been recording drum covers for two years and didn't know these technique names. Amazing studio going there! We have a small drum room padded top to bottom with low ceilings. What is a good general height to put the over heads above the snare in a paired placement? (or above the cymbals height?)

@SybrenRoefs 7 жыл бұрын

Awesome video, thanks so much! Are the session files available for download? I'd love to analyse them in greater detail in Pro Tools.

@jeffreymiddelveld4421 9 жыл бұрын

Especially the crash on the drummers left side is panned significantly more to the outside. The ride a bit less, but the change in dimension is pretty obvious. I would choose the X-Y. Pretty stereo image, but not panned too wide. Good demo, thanks :)

@GlitchComputer 10 жыл бұрын

that Glenn John is so new to me..have to try it out!

@jeroenfigee 8 жыл бұрын

Great tutorial ! I enjoyed it and will be watching this a few times to learn the techniques. | Thnax4posting

@jesse9999999 10 жыл бұрын

Another nice option is to do a mid-side with a nice condenser for your figure of 8 mic, it gives you a nice "stereo width" control for your kit without having to use a cheesy plugin.

@nivinraphael 3 жыл бұрын

Sonicscoop is da best!

@ZackMester 10 жыл бұрын

Perhaps thin was not the best word but the Glyn Johns just had a certain presence and darkness to the drums I didnt hear in spaced pair. The cymbal spread was excellent but the drums sounded a little too bright for my taste. Great video btw! It is the most thorough and concise drum mic overhead placement video Ive seen yet. I only have four mics so I'll be sure to test out all of these methods. Its exciting to be able to hear these slight nuances and be able to discuss them as well. Subscribed!

@Dazzer1234567 5 жыл бұрын

Another vote here for Mr Johns, gonna give that a try tomorrow.

@JustinColletti 10 жыл бұрын

That's right Dock -- We panned these from the audience's perspective to match up with the images on screen.

@seanlowrie8883 8 жыл бұрын

OT: Nice to see the M400 hanging about in the background. I'd assume it gets much love from everyone who walks in there?

@matiascabero8740 5 жыл бұрын

great video! , thaanks. We are listening only the OH? without process? , or are with eq and with the close mics? thanks :)

@superfly3438 3 ай бұрын

There is a video out there of Glyn Johns placing his over heads and it's all on approximation of the position. He pretty much says it's simple to do with little thought. when asked if he ever measured the distance of his microphones. he replies. "No. It's bullshit." .. look it up, very entertaining .

@dcp10200 10 жыл бұрын

I exclusively use Glyn Johns when I overhead mic drums. Generally I'll use a ribbon mic that points over the floor tom and an omni-directional small diaphragm condenser centered over the snare to really get the height in the overhead.

@markowalski1 9 жыл бұрын

Holy shit that kit sounds amazing.

@DeathAndLament 10 жыл бұрын

For me it's always been record specific. I've been doing mostly space-pair now, with an additional single overhead mic for room (or the mic is placed even further in the room to get that uniform sound). All in all it's the drummer who seals the deal. Everything else is secondary. As for phase...that's what flipping it is for, so you can check the relationship between all of the tracks and fix any of those issues.

@LuisHouses 10 жыл бұрын

great video

@marcojazzdrum 10 жыл бұрын

thank you!!!!! =)

@AllenMichael Жыл бұрын

I like the spaced pair! In a mix this would be wide

@StreetJazz84 8 жыл бұрын

Is it just me or does the drummer look like he dies a little every time he ends the fill? Great video! Or "tute" as they say.

@chameleonedm 8 жыл бұрын

It's almost as if he just hates to stop playing

@SteveStockmalMusic 6 жыл бұрын

No he’s like... “oh man, here comes those damn roadies again, wish they’d just leave my bloody mics alone” Lolololol Oooorrr... perhaps he just got the punchline to that drummer joke he heard 5 years ago. Oooohhhhhhh

@johnmdoll 5 жыл бұрын

haha, I thought the exact same thing when I watched this before reading your comment.

@jakubowskij 4 жыл бұрын

That drummer played with Jeff Buckley. Incredible drummer

@mdoyleproductions9358 4 жыл бұрын

I can't stop laughing at this, lol.

@sinoptikband 9 жыл бұрын

3:09XY 3:20 ORTF 6:23 Spaced Pair 6:35 Glyn Johns 7:17 Mono

@SteveCournane 10 жыл бұрын

By the way great tutorial

@daneeehhhh 6 жыл бұрын

On spaced pair, do you pan the snare mics to the side of the overhead that captures the earlier signal? Do you time align/phase align overheads with snare mics? Thanks

@claudiofussei9112 10 жыл бұрын

Hi Justin… this is one of the best tutorial I ever seen!!! So, can you explain how to pan channels in these techniques? Thanks a lot...

@JustinColletti 10 жыл бұрын

Thanks Claudio. For most of these patterns, I usually go hard left and right, but it's all to taste in the end. For Glyn Johns, most folks will pan the tom side overhead all the way out, but only pan the snare side overhead halfway out to help center the image a bit.

@ChurroWaffles 7 жыл бұрын

I was hearing this on a potato and noticed the Glyn Johns better than all other types. Will be taking note of thay my good sir.

@nelsonsanchez3670 9 жыл бұрын

Hi. At the time of recording, once we've placed the pics for the overheads, what should we do in the mixer?? I usually route one Mic into a Channel in the mixer, and pan that mic LEFT completely, and the other one RIGHT, is that correct??

@brongjames5431 6 жыл бұрын

Thanks superman!

@DannySHodges 7 жыл бұрын

tks

@JustinColletti 10 жыл бұрын

Great question Dock! On the first three clips, the overheads are panned hard left and right -- 100%. On the Glyn Johns setup, the left mic is panned 100%, and the right mic is panned about 50%, which is the convention. Panning 100% can sound pretty good on Glyn Johns too. (Especially if you're using a close mic on the snare.) We'll definitely be including even more of this kind of info in future installments, and will be going deeper & deeper as the series goes along. Thanks for watching!

@reeblesnarfle5443 4 жыл бұрын

Ah,.... takes me back to the Atlanta Institue of Art Music Studio..... great stuff, thx!

@claycrawford3966 3 жыл бұрын

when using the glyn johns method do you also use the mics for hi tom and floor tom?

@carranen 7 жыл бұрын

when comparing takes, did you mix the near microphones with? (I think so) it would be interesting to hear just the overheads mics too.

@crestiferj2689 4 жыл бұрын

mono overhead and stereo rooms is how i almost always do drums. just sounds right to me. i keep a solid center image but with a little stereo spread from the room mics adding width as well as depth. i also like the glyn johns approach, it works well when you have a drummer who can balance themselves well. often don't even need tom mics.

@polyopuk4179 4 жыл бұрын

Nice! had some good results with this recently, except used mid-side config instead of a mono overhead. How far back i the room do you tend to put the room mic's when you do it this way? In the corners?

@crestiferj2689 4 жыл бұрын

@@polyopuk4179 totally depended on the room and if i had other instruments going live with the drumkit. generally i have a pair of mics, usually ribbons on either side of the kit maybe 3-6 ft out..and i move them depending on what i want to hear for the song. also, a stereo royer or aea r88 ribbon, i'll often have right in front of the kit looking down at it, m aybe 1-2ft from the front of the kick drum. that can sound really cool too.

@polyopuk4179 4 жыл бұрын

@@crestiferj2689 Thanks for sharing, definitely going to try this out in the next drum tracking session!

@dockbandwidth7045 10 жыл бұрын

Great video and thanks for the info. One detail though that I always wonder about which seems to be left out is how far do you pan each of the channels on the mixer? For instance do you hard pan the Right & Left channels? Do you pan them 50% each way (3 oclock and 9 oclock)? Do you change the panning for each different technique. Would be interesting to know but thanks again. I use the Glynn-John all the time with no snare drum mic - just 2 overheads and a bass drum mic - works great!

@JulienXuereb 7 жыл бұрын

Quick question about spaced pair: I learned that the wider the mics are placed from each other the smaller the stereo image is. Why would the spaced pair give an exaggerated stereo spread?

@steverodriduez8828 7 жыл бұрын

For the glyn John's effect are you only using those two condenser mics for the whole drum set? Or are you also using dynamic mics on all your toms and bass drum. And are you using one mic on the snare or two or none? Basically I'm asking for all the mics you used to make the drums sound like it did in 6:35

@tiagoagfaria 8 жыл бұрын

I really liked how Glyn jones sounded, would you recommend me using it in a live performance? At the moment I have been using the spaced pair technique, what is your opinion regarding OH mics for live act? Thanks, great videos!

@IsawUupThere 7 жыл бұрын

No, because it's high maintenance. When you do it right and can work really well, but it can also sound worse than any other setup if it goes wrong. Spaced is the most common and is pretty hard to screw up. ortf and xy are kinda meh but they are impossible to screw up. These are qualities, if you don't appreciate them now, you will some day.

@KevBlaJoh 9 жыл бұрын

The ORTF with stereo sounds almost exact the same as when you use two mic stands like the "Spaced Pair".

@Fabelnegros 4 жыл бұрын

Great

@audionmusic3628 4 жыл бұрын

Mic phase issues can be resolved by having the drummer hit the kick/snare alone at the start of the take. Use a delay to slow the channel that is early until it matches up with the other channel.