Oh nooo... it was my favorite😭 The most stable and reliable Linux ever...

@@liljames2k THanks IBM/Redhat, for killing the best OS used on some 20-25% of the planet's webservers! (I'll bet even MS was using it!)

@@mdd1963 RHEL is free now, just no support, nothing really changed.

RHEL is only free in very limited circumstances (up to 16 VMs on a dev subscription). CentOS was used in datacentres with hundreds or thousands of servers. That is a fundamental change.

@@ProTechShow RHEL has to make money somehow

😂

If u install something from the AUR u might break ur system but the default pkg manager (Pacman) is just fine.

Maybe if Pacman could support GNU Stow integration, and could install to a custom directory, things would be a little easier to fix.

and then u go to gentoo

Apt comparison since the razor supports the blade

‘Apt’ comparison

@@DevvratSingh007 No, it's a dnf comparison.

Very smart !

Thanks!

Glad it was helpful!

Glad it worked for you. My experience was a little bit more... crashy. I suspect it depends on hardware, software, and use case. I think it was 2016 when I got fed up and switched to CentOS. Although I have dipped back into Fedora occasionally since for testing the odd thing on a desktop environment, it’s when running it as a server I had real issues.

Thanks! I can't cover every variant or this video would go on forever, so I've stuck to the main editions as they lend themselves to a direct comparison and have an intertwined lifecycle. Silverblue and the idea behind it is interesting. It might warrant a separate video at some point…

Isn't the whole point of Linux to be mutable at any time?

Charlie Kahn indeed. “Immutable” is just shorthand. You can configure and customize it to your heart’s content (mostly... there are details that are too lengthy to go into here... short version is that immutable implies API-driven configuration, not command line driven). What *is* immutable are the running bits. You cannot modify (patch) an immutable OS. To apply a patch, you install a new image. Silverblue and it’s downstream derivative CoreOS are also a “JEOS” (Just Enough OS) that consist of only the kernel, drivers, ssh, and the bare minimum packages necessary to run containers. The idea is to run all other services in containers, abstracting them from the rest of the OS. This jeans that the “patch” stream on an immutable OS built on a few dozen packages is much sparser than the patch stream on a traditional OS built of 10,000+ packages. Consider Silverblue is to Fedora as CoreOS is to RHEL. Full disclosure: I am a Red Hat employee.

Thanks! Glad it helped!

what about now fella?

@@isaacalexisrivera3157 Switched in 2021 to opensuse TW for both server and workstation (no more arch)

@@82thamonk thanks a lot, I heard that suse and Ouse are better options right now

@@isaacalexisrivera3157welcome. it's been a stable base for me and compatibility with rpms is an added bonus

Same as I... I shifted from ubuntu & am using fedora for more than two years... That time I was 6 month on linux...

@@fedora_linux Do all packages for RHEL work on Fedora?? I mean like some paid software like Ansys, Altair. Because of my background, mechanical engineering, I'm shifting from Ubuntu as most of software are for RHEL and SUSE. But I think I should go for centOS

CentOS is a better choice for compatibility with Red Hat as it's a direct derivative. Fedora has more packages in its repos to play with; but being upstream will have newer/changed versions compared to Red Hat, which may cause you a few headaches with commercial software. That's not to say you won't be able to get it to work, but it could be more trouble and it's much less likely that the vendor will support it. From what I've seen, most commercial vendors that support Red Hat will also support CentOS (although they will likely push anything OS-related back to you), but they don't tend to support Fedora.

Me too

@@user-vi3pi9rf7w The short answer is "maybe". All (properly packaged) RPM packages should have their requirements embedded in the package metadata. If those requirements can be met with packages provided by Fedora there's a very good chance it will work fine. Keep in mind though, Fedora may upgrade one of the dependencies at any time which may no longer be ABI compatible with the "older" RHEL/CentOS requirements. So YMMV...

Rocky Linux, and it's not even close. Fedora has always been garbage and RHEL was always great if you could afford it. Stream is just a way of saying it is the new Fedora server edition.

Stream isn't a replacement for CentOS, but it's not the same as Fedora, either. Fedora is ploughing ahead with it's own thing, independent of the current Red Hat release. Stream is the current state of Red Hat development, so Stream currently sits somewhere between RHEL 8.3 and 8.4. I get it, though. It's not finished code, so it doesn't fill the gap left by CentOS. I'll have a new video up on Wednesday about recent events.

Here it is: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/pct2a5V6r5u2ZWw.html

@@ProTechShow another excellent production, thanks

@@Doing_Time Thanks!

Tell me about it! I have had worse - I made one about MS ATP and they rebranded all of it as the video was uploading... My take on the CentOS situation here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/pct2a5V6r5u2ZWw.html

Which version of red hat should I get? X86?

Rocky's a good choice. Now the dust has settled it has emerged as the most similar option to the (old) CentOS model. Basically a like-for-like replacement, but with less of a delay for updates than CentOS used to have.

The two reasons would be stability and support. Fedora gets a lot of additonal security and stability work as it is developed into Red Hat. As a result, Red Hat is more reliable. With Fedora you're more likely to encounter problems (for me this tended to happen after running yum/dnf update), and you'll find yourself having to do more frequent OS upgrades due to its short lifecycle. You can get similar stability with CentOS, though; which leads us to the other benefit - support. If something goes wrong with Fedora or CentOS you're on your own. With Red Hat you can pick up the phone and get them to fix it. You pay a premium for this, but if it's a system that a business relies heavily on, having that support on tap can pay for itself in a single incident. If it's just you being affected and you're comfortable fixing issues that crop up, it might not stack up. On the other hand if an issue drags you away from revenue generating activities, then the support might be useful.

I'm comparing Fedora to Red Hat and CentOS here. There were ~5 years between versions 7 and 8 of those, so 6 months is definitely fast by comparison. Arch/Manjaro are on a rolling release so they don't have a definitive "next version" like Fedora to compare with.

Each release cycle when it's new is always on the latest software. You just get a chance to pause the rolling every six months.

Glad you liked it

Thanks for the feedback. I'll take a look at the volume on the next edit. It's standardised at a "normal" volume, but I'll admit to not knowing what the definition of "normal" is on KZfaq vs other media!

@@ProTechShow it's the only downer I found in an otherwise great video! Love the content, keep up the good work.

Thanks 🙂

Guess what my comment feed was like that day! 😆

Glad it was useful!

Thanks! There have been a few significant changes to CentOS since I made this. If you check the pinned comment at the top there are a couple of follow-ups if you were planning to head down the CentOS route.

@@ProTechShow Thanks for support ! yes i have checked that also, its very sad for cent OS, i was using cent OS on my server but didn't know this news. well, now thinking for Rocky Linux, but one question, is it truly based on REHL ? like cent OS was ? or it is build from Cent OS last version ?

@@talharafique8913 it's based on RHEL. In fact on the 8.5 release both Rocky Linux and AlmaLinux got their 8.5 rebuilds out faster than CentOS did!

Thanks. There is a fairly similar thing with the desktop versions. Red Hat and Fedora have "workstation" editions. I don't believe CentOS has a specific workstation download, but there is a "workstation" option in the installer to preselect the desktop packages.

@@ProTechShow ohw interesting i didn't know redhat had an desktop version. i was more thinking a bit more general, while redhat is very known when it comes to servers, its less known when it comes to desktops. on the desktop we have the ubuntu family basically and there are many sadly none of the companies are actually selling the distrobution (at least not in the same way redhat does anyway) that said if red hat also sells a workstation edition it makes me wonder if there are redhat workstations sold, hmmmmm. i have yet to hear about laptops(if those count) sold with rhel. the latest i have heard lenovo is gearing up to ship with fedora workstation.

I think a lot of the Ubuntu desktop market share is down to them trying to make Linux more accessible for people so that the average punter for whom kernel=popcorn can use it. Ubuntu have been more inclined to include proprietary software, too. You won't find that in Fedora. Whilst proprietary software enrages a lot of the Linux community, going back to that average punter - they don't care, they just want their computer to work. I think the "slow and steady" Red Hat approach fits servers better. If you're paying for a Red Hat workstation, I'd guess it has a specific business function that you use it for. I can only speak from my own experience, but whilst I've seen a fair few production Linux servers in business, I've seen barely any Linux desktops by comparison (excluding thin clients). Where I have seen Linux desktops in offices it's either being used by a developer, or it's been a very limited use case e.g. the user only requires a web browser and has no idea they're using Linux. If I'm installing Linux on a desktop (not something I do very often in honesty) it's almost certainly for personal use or experimentation, and I'm less bothered about uptime. In that case a more cutting-edge distribution like Fedora can be a better choice than something more robust like CentOS. Whilst CentOS is less likely to crash, it's also less likely to have drivers easily available to support the random hardware or devices that tend to get plugged into desktops. Horses for courses I guess!

@@ProTechShow that's well put, tho i have to say many things works out of the box on the Linux desktop these days. most things are indeed made more accessible for the average punter. one could argue the only limits on the desktop is the software that support it. the average punter is often not inclined to change their workflow from their familiar software to the software that support Linux. the idea of centos not being suitable due to missing drivers makes sense and also explains why rhel workstations are that prevalent. also the fact that fedora doesn't ship proprietary stuff is what makes the lenovo announcement to preinstall fedora so baffling as it sounds as if they're open sourcing their drivers, but don't quote me on the last part

Yes. During the install there's a "Workstation" option that gives you a Gnome desktop. KDE is no longer supported in version 8, but I'm sure someone will have written a guide on how to hack it in if you wanted to try...

@@ProTechShow Okay cool. Doing the install now. Thanks!

Ah, well, you just steered me away from it entirely... I like KDE, but can't stand Gnome (even Win10 is less annoying). Thanks for a good comparison video, tho!

I've been using Fedora Xfce for some time now. I decided to try CentOS with the Gnome desktop because of all the updates in Fedora (I feel your pain). CentOS worked well, but the available software in the repositories is not nearly as wide in scope as it is in Fedora. For this reason I decided that Fedora was right for me. But if CentOS has everything you need, it is a good choice, in my opinion.

@@Reziac I can understand why you are frustrated with Gnome. Needlessly complicated. I like it though but others don't and I understand that.

I've heard some guy called Linus develops on it, too...

Thanks! The CentOS situation has changed since this video. My most recent update on CentOS Stream is here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/a5-pbNZ-u7-4moU.html

Thanks 🙂 Glad it was helpful!

Thanks Emmo 🙂

Glad it was helpful, although it's worth noting that "CentOS Stream" is not the same thing as "CentOS Linux", which was originally just "CentOS" as referred to in this video. There have been a few changes since this video was published - check the pinned comment for a few updates.

Thanks!

Northern Ireland, originally

Cheers, Matt. I might do one, although is it bad if I think the main benefit is that it scares numpties away from your servers?

@@ProTechShow that's me screwed then 😂

@@matthewsteel5464 Ha! Don't think you're getting out of it that easily!

Here's your video! kzfaq.info/get/bejne/eLJlqLCesNSoeJs.html

A point of clarification: RHEL dev subscriptions are explicitly for development purposes only. Non-production could be interpreted to mean general personal use like a home server or individual workstation, but that's not allowed. Just wanted to make that clear for anyone else reading the comment. The official definition is as follows: _“Development Purposes” means using the Software for the specific purpose of (a) individual developers writing software code, (b) single-user prototyping, quality assurance or testing and/or (c) demonstrating software or hardware that runs with or on the Software._ That said... Red Hat have hinted at different options in 2021 in response to killing CentOS, so check back. Who knows? Maybe there will be a personal use option then. 🙂

Thanks!

Thanks! Unfortunately traditional CentOS as described in this video no longer exists. Check the pinned comment for updated videos on what happened.

Haha thanks 🙂

True, as long as you're only using it for development purposes and *not* for integration, test, or production. The "normal" RHEL self-support subscription is listed at $349 per year.

Thanks! This one is a bit outdated regarding CentOS now. There's an update in the pinned comment.

Thanks!

It was, until this happened: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/pct2a5V6r5u2ZWw.html Red Hat are currently allowing 16 instances on a developer subscription for free, so you might want to take a look at that?

@@ProTechShow which version should I get for red hat? X86?

@@JohnSmith-yr6je x86, assuming you're running it on a regular PC

Thanks! 🙂

Things have changed significantly since I made this video - traditional CentOS will be end of life in about a month. The latest video I have on the options is here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/f92RmdOkmbbSgH0.html Rocky and AlmaLinux are both pretty decent options as like-for-like replacements for CentOS.

You're welcome :-)

@@ProTechShow ☺️☺️

This video is from a couple of years ago - before Red Hat killed CentOS (now called CentOS Linux) off. At the time of publishing it was explicitly forbidden to use RHEL dev subscriptions in production. The pinned comment has links to later videos about this.

My wife found this comment hilarious. She's English, I'm from Northern Ireland. I have lived in England for about half my life, though; so my accent is probably a bit of a mix by now (I tell them they've corrupted me). Thanks for the encouraging comment!

@@ProTechShow that's because I've worked with Mr Davey park and he is from Northern Ireland too. I think he lives in bilfast

I like him already, then 😁

@@ProTechShow I hear a little Welsh

@@synthoelectro No Welsh - just Northern Irish and maybe a bit of English mixed in. I was in Wales once for a day, but I don't think I picked up the accent in that time!

You can partition the disk into two areas and install one operating system on each, then switch between them at startup. Search for "dual booting" to find some guides. If you want something less intrusive to play about with, you could use virtualisation to run one inside the other - a bit like a computer inside an app. If you have Windows Pro you could enable Hyper-V to do this. If it's Home edition you could use something like VirtualBox instead.

Did you try CentOS?

@@nadirzenith1298 I did once, long time back.

@@asherbener Was CentOS stable? I heard Red Hat killed CentOS Linux and replaced it with CentOS Stream (which is an upstream CentOS distro).

@@nadirzenith1298 I didn't quite liked it. Nah, never heard about CentOS Stream.

@@asherbener Asher, what were your favorite Linux distros?

Thanks!

@@ProTechShow no problem, keep up the good work sir.

That's true. Not sure how much I trust it to stay around long-term after what happened to CentOS but for now it's an olive branch to small-scale deployments and homelabs. 👍

@@ProTechShow true i mean it was announce/release around the time the centos happened so we will see

Rather than "better" or "worse" I'd say Debian is "different". There are hundreds of Linux distributions. Red Hat, Fedora, and CentOS are all produced or sponsored by the same company and have different, specific purposes. That means they can be compared quite neatly. Debian is a different family altogether, so personal preference is going to be a factor.

Thanks!

Depends on the scenario. If it's standalone and business critical then yes. If the server is part of a highly available deployment you may be able to automate it so that if a problem occurs on one node you pause deployment to others and nobody notices. In this case they're mostly standone servers but it's only really me using them so there's nobody to complain. I'd rather have it automated and email me on the rare occasion there's a problem because the time it costs me to sort it out is much less than the time it would take me to manually patch and test them all every couple of weeks.

I think end-user devices like laptops are a better use case for Fedora than servers are. There are definite advantages to a cutting-edge distribution for more up-to-date driver support for random devices that get plugged in. Laptops don't tend to need 24/7 uptime either, and only impact a single person so reliability is less important. 👍

Ha! True. There were definitely times when my Fedora server at home imploded after an update and I thought "I can't be bothered right now" and just punched the restore button.

That's what I said in the video: "Fedora gets a new release every six months, and its releases only get 13 months' worth of updates"

Definitely one to keep an eye on over the next year!

You could always dual boot... 😁 Not to muddy the waters any further, but if it was a server I'd almost always go CentOS or Red Hat over Fedora, but on a personal desktop I'd lean more towards Fedora. Servers just need to do their job and work, whereas my desktop is for playing with. That said, rarely run Linux on my desktop these days so take that with an appropriate pinch of salt!

@@ProTechShow Great video and very well explained, may I ask that you don't run Linux on your desktop anymore because maybe you use it for more personal thing and Linux is more for work?

@@jonathanlee4653 Thanks! Windows works better for most of what I use. Most of my work either needs MS Office or interacts with Windows in some way. I make these vidoes in DaVinci Resolve, which works on Linux, but struggles with some codecs on it and the OpenCL drivers are a pain. I'd also like to say "games" but I can't remember when I last had time to play one! Doing this in Linux would mean resorting to workarounds fairly often whereas Windows works as-is. I don't have a particular allegiance - I just use whatever's best for the task in hand. For standard productivity tasks that's often MS. For less mainstream use cases Linux is often the better choice.

@@ProTechShow Every Linux user has a Windows OS running somewhere haha

Yeah... guess who deployed a new system on CentOS 8 an hour before the announcement 🤦‍♂️ Will have a video up tomorrow about that little gem.

Here it is: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/pct2a5V6r5u2ZWw.html

Debian

If I make that video how long before I got a load of replies to it saying "SUSE" or "Red Hat"? 😂

​@@ProTechShow I don't know, i just made it as a joke

@@universenerdd I know, that's how I took it. 🙂 I've got a bunch of people replying to this video about Red Hat distributions saying the best one is , etc. and somewhat missing the point; so I'm just predicting that no matter what distributions I cover in the future, people will feel a need to post their tribal allegiance. It's not a comment about you (or Diego).

LOL XD

Haha... it would be quite difficult to hide it when Red Hat make the source code publicly available 😉

Will you work for free? 😉 I've done more work on the levels in more recent videos, but will happily listen to feedback.

@@ProTechShow I actually would lol. But There was just some leveling issues between the intro music and the background music that seemed off to me. Not bad though Ive experienced far worse.

I had some feedback that this video was a bit quiet, and have done some reading up on LUFS since then. Hopefully the levels are more consistent on newer videos. If you watch a recent one, let me know what you think. I'm recording in a bit of an echo chamber, so the dialogue still needs a bit of work.

😬

Yeah... basically the same deal as Red Hat - it's their support that you're paying for rather than the software. Building their product using Red Hat's source code and then approaching Red Hat's cutomers and undercutting them on price hasn't won them many friends - particularly given how much Red Hat contributes to the open source community. It's technically allowed, but... it's a tad underhanded to say the least. If you're going to run an Oracle workload on Linux it's the obvious choice, though. That's a big reason people pay for it - having a full stack optimised and tested to work together and supported by a single vendor can be quite attractive.

@@ProTechShow redhat or IBM is being too nice at this, if oracle can sue Android for using Java, then redhat can sue them for forking their code and gain a profit from it

@@idtyu it comes down to the licensing. Red Hat give their source code away, and Oracle are free to use it. Java was never quite as open and had constraints on commercial use. It's becoming an issue of contention in some circles, though. Open source was meant to be a community sharing effort to benefit everyone, but huge corporations like Amazon are building massive cloud services off the back of it and making a lot of money from other people's work. Some think it's a good thing that open source is getting the exposure, whereas others are fed up of the cash getting diverted to Bezos' pocket and are looking at alternative licensing options to curtail it. Time will tell I guess...

Yup. I've pinned a comment for now, but I'll be releasing a new video on Wednesday about that!

Here it is: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/pct2a5V6r5u2ZWw.html

No, it really didn't...