that's the part that's so infuriating. you never get justice.

But they feel like the arbiters of justice. Because how dare you smile...or some bulls**t. Maddening.

True .

But then they get the satisfaction of seeing you spin your wheels. In a lose/lose scenario, you might as well lose with the least effort possible!

Yeh! So I’ve unsubscribed Grannon. A somatic narcissist.

not easy if you have to coparent though

@@ir4700 Very hard to do this. My thoughts are with you. Get psych support.

@@ir4700 But doable. If necessary vía a third party.

​@@ir4700 I co parent with a no contact order. I use an app called Our Family Wizard which is court approved. It's fantastic! All I do is send updates once a week about her diet and medical info when 'necessary'. It's amazing because he sends me abusive messages that I never respond to. I ignore him every time and it's killing him lol. I have been in counseling for a year and loving it. My daughter is doing fantastic as a result of my personal progress. I know I will get sole custody soon and then it's bye boy!

I can’t wait to do this once I hit 30 and graduate!!!

it is sad, i wish i could reach out to all the women hurt by my recent covert narc boyfriend and all the women hurt by my ex-husband (overt narc), but we can't save the world. start with saving yourself, and becoming resistant to all the future narcs we will meet!

Satans Minions. The prettier the package the more dangerous, even in Nature. Look how beautiful the poisonous plants become to catch their next meal.

That’s why I disagree of ‘living a successful life is the best revenge dealing with the narcissist’.Trauma is real and the harm they caused is real no matter it is physically or psychologically.They did make you feel depressed,anxious and even physically hurt.They must pay for their fault and that’s why revenge is necessary for yourself to feel better and move on.Very likely,most narcissists feel proud of themselves they can manipulate others and get what they want with NO RESPONSIBILITIES!Making the victims feel bitter seeing they have a good life and having intense anger for being treated so unfairly.Forgiving them in this unfair situation will just continue to hurt yourself.They do deserves PUNISHMENT for their evil acts.I recommend revenge,not because I am being stubborn BUT for the sake of my own health😊

@@gracelee1847 you need help

@Mo💛 Yes,ofc I need help and rly hope someone can actually help me out but therapy can't do much in my situation unfortunately.I still need to face all problems caused by the narcissist and I am hating this.

@Ann A I feel the same way about my covert narc. I had to see him in court last November. Now that my feelings for him changed drastically due to his psychotic behavior during the rapid devaluation stage, I saw him as a stooped over overweight, gray haired troglodyte at age 71. He bought his little self a trailer in a retirement community 6 miles away from my home that I've owned for 30 years with the idea that he would come and go as he pleased, share custody of the dog, and have his toddler rages every month or so preceded by 2 days of the silent treatment. Now, hopefully he will die a lonely old sick bastard. One of his son's could care less about him after he had a 2 month affair with his former daughter in law of 18 years. He disgusts me, yet I'm working on moving on.

Agreed. It's only a matter of time.

And so many people believe their lies. 😢

Me either

I bottled up and never retaliated to their verbal and emotional abuse. Including humiliation in front of friends and on Facebook. Instead I had the freeze response, as I'm a very sensitive person. Only later do I feel anger and want revenge.

I had this exact thought just a couple days ago.

AMEN but then be reincarnated into the person that they bullied

I found a couple of tweaks to my way if thinking and doing that has helped me. Yes, I do have feelings for the narcissist, yes they have the ability to trigger those feelings, but... I don't have to act on those feelings the way they expect me to. I can stop letting them tell me how I feel, and what I think. And by doing that, they cant gaslight me for not being honest about my feelings. They are mine I can have them. I can be honest that I have them. And it frustrates them when they can't control me with my feelings. Second, in trying to have a honest conversation keep it to One point or question. When they take the conversation in different directions, listen, then bring the conversation back by; not engaging in their new topic. By acknowledging their point then pointing out it has nothing to do with what you were trying to talk to them about. By verbally acknowledging their apparent need to talk about 'whatever' before talking about what You want to talk about, but then it's your turn to talk about .. Acknowledge, validate, see their point, appreciate their 'share', but don't participate in their topic and attempt to get you off track. Then repeat your question or point, word for word, dont deveate, and do it without frustration or irritation showing in your voice (because then they know they have you close to giving up) they will become frustrated and irritated and jumbled in their thinking. They will bring up stuff they know will trigger you They will turn the conversation around onto you. A good response on your part would be - ok we have talked about this x amount of times, I'm willing to talk about that with you, but I started this conversation because I - want/need/ would like to/ talk to you about x. These two basic changes in the way I thought and communicated changed the impact the 3 narcissist in my life were able to have on my psyche.

Sometimes it’s about reestablishing your ground and status

Yes

Exavtly.The best revenge is moving on and not looking back. Ironically, that's the only thing that may have a chance of actually hurting them. Not mattering is their greatest fear, and it is a huge blow to their ego. Taking out revenge on a narcissist is a total waste of time. Anything you do to them is only rewarding them with attention. You can't hurt them that way because they don't care about you. You're just letting them know that they are still taking up space in your head, that they are still important to you and that they are still affecting you. Hate is in this same category. Many people think it hurts the narcissist to let them know they are hated. They already thought that. It makes no difference. The only person it affects is you. They are so wrapped in the cocoon of their own self-absorbed emotions that no one can touch them. Not with love, not with hate, not with anything. You might as well be plotting revenge against a robot, or a table and chairs for all it would matter. Don't waste your time. It's not worth it. Look at narcissist, they are consumned by revenge and punishment and look how it works out for them. Pathologically narcissistic personalities are very punitive. This means they desire to punish others for the things that they believe that others have done to them. They're easily offended, easily insulted, easily angered and often feel rejected or attacked. They assign the blame for their feelings to other people and if the feelings are negative narcissists seek to punish these others for what they've supposedly done, which is considered by The Narcissist to be incredibly unreasonably wrong and terrible. A crime of this magnitude simply cannot be allowed to stand. The other person absolutely must be punished for it.. This is in part due to the size and Constitution of the pathologically narcissistic ego which is both enormous and almost absurdly fragile. This is a very bad combination because that makes it easy to damage and impossible to avoid. Not only do they think virtually everything is two or four or because of or about them because their ego is huge, but because it's so fragile virtually everything insults, offends hurts or upsets them. It can be so severe that it comes across as what looks like paranoia or even delusional thinking. It's made even worse by the fact that because this type of personality is so self-focused and so egocentric they generally cannot see any other interpretation of the facts even when proof is right in front of them. It simply does not compute. That they're not the reason for or the center of the situation or the event and why would it compute after all they're the center of everything, if anyone claims otherwise they're often accused of lying or being manipulative. When the ego has been damaged it screams for vengeance. As we mature we learn to address things in better more productive, more pro-social ways. We might still be very angry or might still feel that someone should face consequences for what they've done but healthy adults don't usually attempt to punish other adults themselves. Narcissists are of course not healthy adults. We often find that much of their head space is taken up with seething about and trying to find ways to punish people they believe have wronged them somehow. This punishment can include things that are just kind of annoying or childish to things that are outright malicious and dangerous. Not only do most people mature into dealing with things in a better way, most people have a balanced idea of which consequences would fit a situation. For narcissists this ability can be pretty affected. These are people who might believe it's perfectly fine to burn down somebody's house over a bad review at work or to kill somebody for giving them a dirty look. They might not all act on these things of course but we often find that most don't seem to recognize limits when it comes to punishing others or think anything is too excessive when it comes to The Misfortune that befalls people they believe have wronged them. Most adults also realize that punishing other adults comes with its own drawbacks and might end up hurting themselves as well in the process. Pathologically narcissistic people either do not realize this or do not care. They are perfectly willing to cut off their own nose to spite their own face, often repeatedly. Narcissistic people can end up actually doing more damage to themselves in the long run because their constant punitive actions may eventually result in people refusing to deal with them at all anymore leaving them with nobody who will put up with their behavior. They either don't realize that or they do but they're not willing or able to stop themselves from doing it when they feel that they've been wronged. Their ego is just too big and it's just too much of a force in their lives. One of the most difficult things to deal with when you're dealing with narcissistic people is the level of punishment involved in these relationships. Whether it is physically assaulting you , smearing you to other people behind your back, freezing you out in cold silence, calling you names, throwing Tantrums when they don't get their way, doing things on purpose to make you angry or jealous, disappearing to worry upset or scare you, trying to make you feel guilty or otherwise bad, withholding things that you want or need, destroying your stuff, cheating on you or anything else.. there has most likely been a large amount of punitive behavior on the part of the narcissistic person you're dealing with you've likely seen some of these things in some ways, The drive to punish appears to be multifaceted in narcissists. One is the involvement of the ego. This is sometimes known as a narcissistic injury and it's the basis of most of the rage you see in these personalities even when you can't figure out what the injury is or how they got it. The ego of narcissist is extremely fragile which means it is essentially perpetually injured. Even things as small as saying "hello" in what they perceive to be a "wrong" tone of voice offends and hurts and insults and injures these personalities on a level that non-narcissistic people probably cannot even begin to understand. They are constantly scanning situations for things that are intended to upset, hurt insult or offend them and of course they find these things when you think the only person anyone is ever talking or thinking about is you then everything they say and do is about you somehow. Sometimes they take an innocuous or unrelated comment to be about something that they're hiding or refusing to admit and they inadvertently reveal that through their anger or by trying to defend themselves. This happens because it's what the comment meant to them, it's what they were thinking about and they just assume this is also what you meant and what you were thinking about. No one else exists except for them. Another component of the drive to punish appears to be the idea that punishing others is associated with power and control. If you are in the position of meeting out punishment you have all the power, similar to being the parent in this situation. The person who is Doling out the punishment is the boss they have all the power and control in the situation. If you're the Punisher you're righteous and best of all Justified...you're not bad, the other person's bad, you're not wrong the other person's wrong, you have done nothing to deserve punishment the other person deserves the punishment. They must be powerful, they must be in control, they must be righteous and Justified.. above all they must not be bad, not be wrong and not be the villain in any situation. Being in the righteous position to punish others meets every single one of these criteria and the reality is many of them enjoy causing and paying to other people it makes them feel powerful, something they don't feel in general and which they desire very much but often lack the fortitude or ability to demonstrate to capture. Narcissists are very much like children in this way.. They feel powerless and unable to affect change in any real way on any real thing so they play their little punishment power games and feel like they might actually be somebody for a while. Another component oin the drive to punish others is the reality that narcissistic personalities are unhappy, miserable, raging, infantile people who can do nothing with all of that misery and rage except dump it out onto others. They cannot hold it or process it or do anything with it at all except dump it. It isn't enough just to release it, somebody has to receive it and to take it. somebody has to be to blame for it, somebody has to answer for it or it can't be dumped. Narcissists require others to take their pain, angre, shame, frustration, failure, their inability. Someone has to answer for all these things and it can't be the narcissist themselves. They cannot tolerate that, It is possible that many are not even capable of it by now. They must simply offload these things onto other people and the things must be received or they can't be gone. You are the person who's required to take all of these things. I f you don't you are considered to be a bad person who doesn't care or whatever else will make you feel bad enough to take it.

Part of the reason narcissists punish others is because they believe others are punishing them. This is a very common theme with pathologically narcissistic personalities that they're being excessively punished, persecuted or otherwise unfairly treated. It's likely that in many situations they really believe that, Realistically they seem to have no real belief that they've ever done anything wrong and even if they will agree that they have any level of consequences is deemed unfairly punitive and even persecutory. This seems to happen in part because they themselves are so punitive and in part because they have so much self-loathing and shame they assume punishment is not only warranted but inevitable, Bad people deserve punishment. The mindset of the narcissist regarding how they treat other people and or regarding how they believe they're being treated by others, whoever hands out the punishment has all the power and in the all-consuming power dynamics in the world of narcissistic people you're either one or the other. Another parrt of the reason why narcissists punish other people so harshly is that in their projected self-loathing. This is the punishment they deem necessary for the crime that has been committed and they have to project it on to you. You're the one that committed the crime. Narcissists tend not to see consequences as naturally occurring or understandable predictable things that result from one's own choices and behavior, but as things that are being done to them by somebody else as punishments. They resent that very much so they punish you back essentially and the relationship becomes one long power struggle where the narcissist becomes more and more resentful, Angry, offended and feels more and more controlled oppressed or smothered and encroached upon by the other person. The punishment from these people never ends they never forget anything that they believe you've done to them and they will never let you live it down. There's no forgiveness, good faith, benefit of the doubt, justendless punishment for the failure to match up to the Perfect Image they erroneously created of you in the beginning. In normal relationships between people there is a period of idealization, it's usually not as Intense or as unrealistic as the idealization in a relationship with a narcissist but it does still happen. People end up seeing each other more realistically and then they adjust to the realistic idea of the other person. With narcissists this does not happen. There is no way to come back from this original loss of esteem in the narcissist's eyes due to their psychological rigidity and their lack of understanding regarding whole object relations. They have no ability to reconcile the real you with the image of you that they created. They see your failure to live up to this as incredibly upsetting and shocking. It is not uncommon for narcissists to accuse people of tricking them or lying to them for not being what the narcissist thought they were. There is no way to make them understand that you didn't pretend to be anything they just had the wrong idea about who and what you were. Their assumptions are seen as knowledge and a contradiction to these assumptions is viewed as lying or manipulation on anybody else's part. You have fooled them in a very vicious and cruel way you pretended to be caring and kind and perfect and you're not. You lied to them you made them look stupid you tricked them you embarrass them that needs to be answered for. Somebody is going to have to pay for that and it isn't going to be them. Some narcissists leave or cut off relationships when this happens but many others do not . Indeed they will resist to ending the relationship very strenuously and pursue reattachment continuously while at the same time punishing and attacking the other person relentlessly talking about how horrible both the relationship and the other person are. People often become totally frustrated and end up asking if I'm so terrible if it's also bad then why don't we just end the relationship? why are you still here? why do you insist on staying together? The Narcissist often responds to this with even more abuse and or begins accusing the other person of trying to abandon or discard them instead of answering what is actually a very valid and reasonable question. The answer appears to be that narcissists literally need other people for survival. They need other people to take delivery of their nasty little packages. They are dependent and not able to cope with very much at all if they don't have somebody who will do that. They also don't appear to be able to experience themselves except through the reactions and the input of other people. In in a very sad irony the worse they can claim that a relationship is and believe a relationship is the better it makes them feel. Many of them are trying to recreate some old power dynamic that they can now achieve the upper hand in thereby finally "winning" over a caregiver or some other perceived enemy from their past. Other people are dragged into this conflict unwillingly and installed into roles as they did not agree to or even know about, unwittingly playing out parts that were created way before they ever came along and receiving punishment that really belongs to somebody else. Narcissist narcissistic personalities do not see other people for who they are and they don't see why it's necessary so they have no desire to learn how to do that. These are very simple almost primitive personalities that are Guided by very complex forces that they do not appear to understand in the least or even care about trying to understand. They just react to what they perceive to be happening without appearing to ask themselves why or even exploring things to see if they make any sense. They appear to believe that their conclusion is always correct and therefore their reaction is always appropriate. They simply do not recognize limits in any form, either for their own behavior or pertaining to other people. They are like children in this way reacting to Big feelings with no breaks or controls at all and no understanding of why they should even have any. You hurt me and now I will hurt you, you made me feel bad now I will make you feel bad. There's no understanding or even acknowledgment that their feelings are coming from inside of them and might not even be related to the other person or any external events at all. They seem to believe their feelings are solely generated by things outside of themselves. This is dangerous because these are unhappy, mean-spirited, envious, frightened people who are almost always in the grip of some negative feeling that they need somebody to answer for. This is why in these relationships the punishment never ends. They are always unhappy and it is always someone else's fault. You're not being punished for your behavior that's a justification because they can't understand their own emotional reactions and they immediately assume that someone else must have done something to cause these emotional reactions so they look around for what that something was. They will always find it because you can always make something sound or look bad whenever you try. Also don’t confuse intensity of emotion with depth of emotion. Emotional intensity is not an indication of emotional depth. Toddlers display emotional intensity but not emotional depth. Just because an emotion is "big" doesn't mean it is meaningful or important, or anything else. It just means it's big. In narcissists, this is a red flag for emotional disregulation and perhaps emotional immaturity. It is not a sign of emotional depth. It's similar to the way toddlers experience emotions. They are big and they are strong, but they are fleeting. You can often distract and defuse a toddler during a tantrum with a knock knock joke. You can also do that with adult narcissists at times if you throw them an emotional curve ball during a tantrum. That's probably not a coincidence. The majority of these personalities are boring, hollow, and have no insight into why they do anything at all. Their behaviour makes no more sense to them than it does to you, and their nowhere near as curious about it than you are. Their is nothing to learn in the relationship and nothing more to see. Its simply the idiot cycling of empty machinery. What depth they may have (if any) is not accessible - to them or anyone else. Many narcissists appear to be almost afraid of their emotions and reactions or ashamed of them as if they believe that only bad people have bad feelings, so this has to be blamed on somebody else. I don't have bad feelings, I'm not a bad person.. you are making me have bad feelings therefore you are the bad person. you're not being punished for your behavior or anything you've actually done, you're being punished for their feelings. This is a primitive personality, They don't know how to treat people and they are not interested in learning. They only care about getting what they want and if this hurts or inconvenience other people they don't care about that doesn't matter to them. If someone is abusive, disrespectfu, they're unable to communicate and if they're not interested in improving any of these things there really isn't any other choice but to leave the relationship unless you are willing to tolerate being treated badly. The only thing you realistically can do in these situations is decide if you are going to tolerate someone constantly dumping their psychic emotional garbage onto you because they can't deal with it themselves. .You don't have to tolerate that, it's not your responsibility or even your place to take care of another adult's emotions for them. It doesn't have to be your problem too.

@@aliross2720 lyrical wise words, thank you

they whole life playing the games

me too

Love this 💛

Thank you. This is so well said.

not 49 years, Forever, Forever and Forever

Since he born until die

I agree. Indifference hurts the most.

It’s not revenge … there is a difference… if you behaved in this way …would you not expect the same? Do not do unto others that you wouldn’t have or expect for yourself… there is a difference I think… mine has been living in my home and by my means to keep him… going to court… I don’t think it’s revenge but I felt guilty like it was… I would not expect another to keep me and live by sucking everything from them without responsibility to self …

I have worked all my life, he hasn’t … it’s my house and I want it … it belongs to me… that’s not revenge… i have avoided confrontation all my life… and realised there is a time gif everything snd I need to fight for what is mine

If only my stalker would exit this earthly realm like yours did. Should I hope?

​@@kayhaladay2460I get you, mine hasn't worked since 28years old, I've worked hard all my life, I've only just understood what a devil it's been whilst under a spell and now I'm 6months free and I will never go back to that controlled, abussive marriage. I'm scared to meet someone else because I'm so forgiving and empathic 😢❤always wins 😊

We're not " hung up" on the word but the action it purveys is negative and implies escalation not closure.

Amen

You become split - revenge is more of a psychopathic behaviour. You’re very much Them when you get out - and if the desire for revenge is there , give yourself time to detox them out of you. Wanting Justice , or to expose them - isn’t revenge - it’s trying to recover your lost innocence . But again - that’s an inside job . With severely malignant psychopathic narcs- you don’t even want revenge you just want to flee for your life and recover your sanity bc secondary psychopathy- esp of the sadistic variety - is a horrifying thing to internalize.

@@hopflo11 agree I consider it a blessing in disguise for them to be far removed

@@thenorthface4 Good on you and all best its not easy to survive what you did but at least your still here and still strong and moved forwards.

Feeling angry for how someone has treated you and seeking revenge are 2 very different things. Personally, it’s more that I’ve been left to clear up a big mess and the narcissist has left and seems to be unscathed. Thats very painful to witness, I don’t think it makes someone a narcissist to feel upset by that.

Stay tuned for the video 😎

Sleeping with 3 guys and 3 women (I presume at the same time!) would definitely do it 🤣

inside joke? or saying a successful life is the best revenge? I do love Mr Grannon's videos re narcissists.

@@HappyDanceThrifter reason speaks.

@@HappyDanceThrifter - Cryptosporidium? That's specific. Care to tell the story?

YES

Rebecca Zung on YT has guides for narcissistic and court. Very helpful info.

How is it going? I have almost urge to text my ex narc but i don’t want to. Just started watching this video and feeling a bit better. Tonight it is just so overwhelming.

The more you heal from abuse, the more intolerable it is to be abused. In the meantime, be someone your healed future self will be proud of remembering.

There is no past life karma and no, you didn't deserve what your spouse did to you, it wasn't fair. What u are doing here is blaming yourself, which is called "victim blaming". My deep condolences. Santa C. isn't real im afraid. Im sorry to tell you this but ....i can't help it but to share this knowledge (cos i come from new-age awakened family and realised...its all a scam. My world collapsed. Its funny how they say its all an illusion, a matrix that we all live in. Turns out new-age is a matrix itself). In fact...you have childhood trauma and visiting a psychologist could be very good option for you. At least it helped me and my friends greatly. New age is just wishful thinking so a person can get through life while glamourising the pain. Its easier to live like this in the moment but it does a lot of damage on the long run, because new-age doesn't adress the cause. Same goes for buddhism he mentioned in this video and all religions. Its basically all the same. To make it simple: your life lesson might be realising you have: childhood CPTSD, codependency or limerance, low selfesteem, narcissistic parents, traumabonded your whole life etc... Wish you lots of luck. And it does get better. And no, this doesn't mean u are stupid. On the contrary, you had to be very smart as a child to survive your parents. This way you developed surviving/coping mechanisms, which u are still using today.

Thailand has a way of providing good healing! Now you got me thinking about a return. May good healing come your way

I learned lately what SIR mean...''slave I remain''...

I hope you find peace in your life 🕊️ with contentment and joy .

Thanks for sharing. I agree with you I feel like after everything I've experienced that's the same type of lesson I'd like to convey to people as well. I have a daughter who just turned 15 & I've been trying to educate her about this. I'm glad to see there's so much more information available now compared to about 10 years ago on this topic

MegDD.3912, Your daughter's very lucky. Good on you for imparting this kind of wisdom. Imagine if every or at least more parents did this. I'd imagine society would be happier and stronger.

Im sorry that you suffered this. Thankyou for sharing this hatsh reality to help others understand and work out strategy to put these characters in their place wherever they may be.

Your problem runs deeper than him if others in your life are relaying messages to you that he’s “unraveling” or telling him how amazing your life is. It’s a very unhealthy dynamic. Why are they participating and why are you tolerating it?

@@Gemmarose9012 and you're here keeping track of others problems' in a youtube comments section?

WoW Same here Sister. We learn and grow.

Bingo 🎉

Stay tuned for the video 😎

Absolutely.

"Absolutely" was meant to reply to comment by TheRahsoft.

It's difficult to be like this when the narcs you know are covert and/or the people around them are extreme doormats or codependents. So they never end up alone or learning that their behaviour is problematic.

Do they get worse

@@franceshaggitt3104 yes, and some get dementia...there are few things worse

Okay, so go to therapy.

And take a holiday!

Authenticity and honest expressions tell narcissists they are not in control of you. It is quite a nightmare for a narcissist to be faced with such powerlessness over another.

does my step mom live next door to you?

It's the "false self," that "has it." (i.e. The dis-order.) That's WHY, they can never HEAL. and only "project" their dis- ease, on others. (Like Vaknin amusingly claiming that "Grannon, is the narc.") And worse; the narcissist tries (in vain...) to "dump their crap, "on others. That's simply NOT how "Karma, works..." as any more NORMAL ten year old, soon realizes. But no narc will "agree," with this... any more than many a 2- 9 year old, does, because it's logically reasoned, innately 'intuitive...' and the TRUTH. ;-)

LOL No they haven't. Dude's views and subs were DOA before Grannon

For moi 😄

Up to last night he called me at 4 am for no apparent reason...why?

@@karlataylor1172 Did you have him blocked? I know thry can get around that too though.

It was ;)