Also I have since talked to dB Electronics personally and there is no animosity or beef or drama. I wanted to clear the air with him as well. So don't make a situation out of something that isn't a situation :)

the only think that the flash cards are killing are the retro stores that overprice retro games

First it's youtubers and now it's flashcarts. People need to make up their damn minds about who is killing retrogaming.

Never trust a man with a beard but no mustache.

As an adult gamer who struggles to even find time to play, I'm hardly worried about the fraction of free time I have (that is then divided across multiple consoles) being enough to ruin a system.

next article, "Retro gaming is killing retro gaming." lolol

I own flashcarts for the N64, Nes, Mega Drive, Master system, GX4000 and ZX Spectrum. With a few hours each week used on each system I have seen no issues and planning on getting the Snes one soon.

"Who is really using their flashcarts 12 hours a day?". That'd be me. Why wouldn't I be using my flashcarts 12 hours a day?

Even if the prolonged use of flashcards did happen to mess up the console, it would most likely just blow a capacitor or a resistor or a power supply / wall wort, so replacing those parts would be simple, in fact you can always install higher voltage caps and higher value resistors, I have been using flash carts for a long time now with zero issues, and I will continue to do so

Is Clickbait KILLING Your Subscription Tab? | RGT 85

I have a random question! I have xenoblade chronicles on Wii and I also got the 3ds(used)version as well. I haven't play the game yet, whats the difference between these 2 versions? I just realise that my Wii copy is still sealed, it's the only sealed game I have, should I play my 3ds version? Am I missing anything by not playing the Wii version?

It's Nintendo saying non Nintendo games will break your system from a Nintendo publication....

In theory...a phone would break if you roll over it with a tank... and then there's the nokia 3310.

Now I'm planning to sell my Super Card mini sd (really), what about cartridges on Ali Express? Are they able to save game progress? (I heard, that it has a flash memory on it and doesn't use battery)

Retro consoles will (as I see it) always remain timeless. Just knowing you have the original NES is the main momentum for non collectors that get those non collectors to become collectors and retro game fanatics.

I never really thought about this. Kind of a scary thought. But I don't know if the issue is as serious as its made out to be. Either way, great video!

I'm no electrical engineer by any means, but I do own a Mega Everdrive which I've used for playing Genesis roms, Master System roms, imports, Rom hacks and tech demos that have pushed the Genesis's graphical and audio capabilities to its limits (more specifically I'm referring to the Bad Apple tech demo in case your curious). In fact I also use my Mega Everdrive as a memory card on my Sega CD to back up my save files. I still prefer to play my original carts don't get me wrong but I haven't experienced any problems with it messing up my Genesis or Sega CD. If you're really paranoid about flash carts, using a flash cart on certain occasions rather than depending on it as your primary method of gaming shouldn't do anything to it. I wouldn't worry about it in all honesty.

Great video! Some people love to use fear mongering to push there points or agendas. I agree 100%. Keep on using them carts if you got them. Game on!

"Voltage has to go somewhere" *squirms*

Most of the flashcard has resistors to control the voltage; if you want to know, just check on those chips, if they are blobs, so they does not have resistors, if those chips are silicon chips, so they must have it.

About the GBA thing, GBA happens to use 3x3v so it matches up. But regardless of those, I did a bunch of research and there are a lot of possibilities that even dB Electronics said are unaccounted for even with his followups. For instance, can one tell if a console dies from heavy flash cart or age/regular use? Could it have been some sort of lightning hitting your electrical line and surging into a console? Could it have been from dropping the console? Running it with poor ventilation from not cleaning it or setting it up in tight spots? Had liquids spilled in it? Pet hair somehow getting in causing an issue? The temperature/humidity in the room running it? etc... You know, all basic wear and tear/accidental things that could also put stress on a console's chips. I think Nintendolife overblew it (which dB Electronics even said), but dB Electronics also worded things in rather bad ways like the "you deserve to damage your retro console" thing you mentioned, plus initially said "avoid" or whatnot which was later changed to "use sparingly" as clarification. Mind you his followup tests did confirm his suspicions, but then the question needs to be asked is if they are actually doing damage. Things can be rated for so-and-so volts, but their tolerance may be actually more than the rating as a fail safe. Things that fry are generally things that get fed a much different voltage than the rating. But I can definitely see why people are concerned because it's logical to want to keep your console going as long as possible which means eliminating risk.

Talked to some people on this in the forums. The science barely checks out on paper and in reality it doesn't at all. Yes, there is the potential for the diodes and/or resistors to get extra stress in the way of heat, but guess what? Every console uses components that are rated for far more load than they will ever use. This is to deal with stuff like brown-outs, "dirty" power coming into the console, ect. It absolutely can put more stress on the console, but added stress doesn't equate to damage. It might shorten the consoles lifespan by a minimal amount, but we are talking a year or two tops... more likely a few months shaved off of decades of use. You'll never know either because due to brown-outs and dirty power and improper storage and all the things that can shorten the lifespan of a console, each one has a different lifespan and you'll never know exactly what killed it in the end. Long story short, if you have a museum piece lying around maybe don't use a flash cart, otherwise enjoy.

What's killing retro? These people and their expensive prices.. why pay 500 for some of these games when you can emulate it for free?

this kinda happened to me for using an R4 DS flashcard. now my DS lite seems to have problems when recognising standard DS and GBA carts.

Yeah, I can see the Chinese multicarts/flashcarts being a potential problem in this case, since they aren't really designed with the same technical knowledge as the EverDrive or PowerPak, but even then it seems like a very minor likelihood. Consoles like the NES and SNES were designed to last, and probably can take electrical capacities beyond the official cartridges. And if there is a difference in voltage, I could see it either damaging the cartridges or the connectors, not any internals beyond that.

Mixing 5V and 3.3V electronics is a common problem in hobby electronics. There are endless discussions about proper (and 'ugly') ways to convert voltage levels on forums about Arduino etc. If you connect a 3.3V output to a 5V Input it usually works, but it is not as reliable as it should be. No dammage. If you connect a 5V out to a 3.3V input the ESD protection diode (and probably the entire chip) will blow. But expect that to happen within a few seconds, not after years. And again, this is a beginner's miskate. Such an epic fail in a commercial product would cause a shitstorm immediately.

Good video as always. You should ask Samsung how they feel about some of these statements since last year. They didn't even need a flash cart. Great topic keep it up.

I'll have to go back and re-read the DB Electronics article tomorrow. Right now I'm kind of confused... the consoles supply a 5V power to the flash cart, but the flash memory chip on the carts are specced to run at 3.3V? Aren't you just supplying too much voltage to the flash chip? How does this damage the console? Wouldn't this just cause the flash chip to overheat and eventually fail?

Not sure how crazy I am about Flash carts in the first place, I don't even have any at the moment (I did once consider picking up a Harmony Cart for the Atari 2600). If I ever do eventually get one then I will not fear this crazy theory. If this was actually true then I am sure many sources would report it and we all would know by know. Great work on this vid!

I'm sure it's not a common thing but I had an Acekard on my DS Lite around 2009. I was playing something on it one day and I could feel the system getting warm, it crashed I rebooted the system and it would no longer read any cartridges.

When a flashcart breaks a console it is called a "brick" and it is common to happen in DEVELOPING SOFTWARE. You are totally correct in this video. Also I had a nes game break my AVS but not a flashcart. Megaman3 was sitting in my garage for 20 years and didnt work, and it unflashed the oem dashboard 1.0 of my avs. I just used the handy AVS scoreboard pc program to reinstall my AVS dashboard OS. And as a plus I beta tested the newest firmwares. The new color pallet option was something I hadn't tried and then the new beta firmwares started crashing the ppc digital output video aspect... now i use a beta firmware but i go with the 7 instead of version 8 because 8 would brick the system within an hour. Bricking a system is fixable 99% of the time but depends on which system, the tech tools, and what exactly broke.

There's also concerns of killing a 3DO, Sega CD, GameCube or whatever by playing a burned game ;)

Love your honesty dude. It's refreshing.

are these things self powered? i dont understand if the console is powering the card how is it sending back a higher voltage than it is getting?

hi RGT85, I'm no expert but I have been working on not only console boards but vintage computer boards really anything that can be considered integrated circuits, and one problem I find with that theory is that if you have 5volt capacitors on a cartridge and you put it in a system that is only giving it 3 volts of power, then the capacitors will only charge up to 3 volts. in fact I'm pretty sure that's one of the rules of thermodynamics that you mentioned is that the output will never exceed the input. the only way I can think of that that would happen is if they put on some kind of voltage Step Up, but we've all seen inside those cartridges and there is no circuit that can step up the voltage. so because of that I don't think that the cartridge would kill the system but the system could kill the cartridge. a capacitor will never exceed the amount of energy that is put in, and will never accept an energy value over what it's rated otherwise it will explode.

Honestly, even if you have a situation where a component burns out, most of the components are still available and there are tons of people like myself that do quality repairs on retro consoles. And when it comes in for a repair we can also improve it with HDMI output or RGB output to make it even better! ;) Game on!

If you read the article the guy talks about some Everdrives and multicarts that are taking a higher voltage inside the flashcart. 3.3v (+- 0.3v) and having readings of 3.75 V. Also keep in mind that some newer consoles such as the GBA and N64 use a 3.3 V standard so there is no mismatch. The article seems to be clear that with a few minor changes to the flash card circuit board all possible risk to the console or flash cart can be avoided. Several of the newer Everdrives have corrected the design flaw. I think the article will lead to better produces.

I usually play on my original cart. But I do have one flash cart, but never have any problems been using it on and off for about a year or two. But not using it every day or every time I play a same with with my dream cast I have burnt disc but . I don't use them all the time or every day although I Hurd bury disccan kill your dreamcast ??

So, the Nes is giving 5v to the flashcart , that according to the article is a 3.3v input, the circuit inside the flashcart is the one getting extra voltage and am pretty sure the IC's inside the flashcart can work with 5v. So , nothing to fear, it won't draw a big amount of current since it's not a power circuit so the Nes won't burn itself trying to supply more current than the one it can handle.

First get it the right way around. It's not about what the "flashcarts" are "putting out" ... they would have to use the 5v power line coming from the console with a line driver to drive their 3.3v outputs UP TO 5v ... so what the flashcarts are putting out is exactly the level that the console is giving them. If there is a problem there, it's with the voltage regulation in the retro console. Instead, what this is about is that all of the LINE signals FROM the console are at 5v, and the console is designed to expect a 5v line on the cartridge, but the flashcart will be regulated to 3.3v, which is what the flash ram uses (and all the associated electronics), so the signals FROM the console TO the cartridge will be "overdriving" all the time. Clamping diodes in the console will prevent that current from flowing back, so the extra 1.7v will have to be dissipated as heat. But IT'S ONLY 1.7 volts, at whatever wattage is being used by the SIGNAL lines, so it's not a LOT of energy. If the heat stress "might" damage the clamping diodes on a time scale of "years" ... it seems that heat sinking the diodes would probably push that out to the "who cares, all of the rest of the system will fail first" time scale.

Found your channel from ReviewTechUSA, he recommended you

If you're worried about something killing your vintage game consoles slowly over time... try focusing on the power supply. Yeah that's right, the factory power supply that came with these systems from day one. Depending on the system, they could be 10, 20, or 30 years old. Some components like capacitors don't age well, and they'll let incorrect voltages or too much RFI garbage to leak into the system. My first step to preserve my old equipment would be to replace those old caps with new high quality replacements from Mouser or Digikey. Especially anything made in the 90s and early 2000s when we had the capacitor plague going around. And besides, if a part fails in your system... then just open it and replace it. You should be doing that anyways considering the age of the equipment. These are all consumer devices, and they were engineered to survive at least 3-5 years. That's the lifespan. And in the minds of the engineers who deal with millions of units hitting store shelves, it's HARD to achieve 3-5 years and still have acceptable returns. Imagine if you have a 5% failure rate of your product, and you sold 10 million units. You just lost millions of dollars replacing those units. There is a bell curve to represent failures over time.

I've been using the 150 in one cart for nes for about 3 years with no problems heavy usage

good topic.. things like this are always good to know..

the only issue i have is the internal battery, so save states are gone after a while

dude, d.b electronics is a very very smart man. he had us retro gamers in mind when he did all this research. it basically comes down to this. if your console was going to last say 40 years, then you got an everdrive and started using that, it may knock 2 years off that 40 or it may knock off 1, but it WILL shorten that consoles lifespan.

Interesting video man, thanks!

I've owned 2 r4 flash carts for the dslite and dsi haven't had a problem with the ds it usually the flash cart itself

Did you see the AtariBox reveal this morning? @RGT85

The voltage would have to spike significantly to do damage. For example I was working on a few N64 power supplies and the output voltage is labeled as 12vdc and 3.3vdc. and of the 3 power supplies I tested (all 3 worked fine on an N64) the voltages fluctuated from 2.8v to 5.6v on the 3.3v output, and 10v to 14.45v on the 12v output. The N64's that used them had no issues. The problems occur when you get into spikes like those from static discharge. However we are talking about electronics that are typically 15 - 20+ years old so yeah some of the components are going to be worn out so like you said it's a crap shoot. Take very good care of your old electronics and they'll last. Take no care at all and they're more likely to fail on you.

I left my Retro Trio powered on with an Everdrive in the Mega Drive/Genesis port. I didn't notice for a few weeks! Both still work fine! Feeding 5 volt to a 3.3 volt device/cartridge is over volting the cartridge, if this isn't done properly this can damage the cartridge or cause heat in the circuit causing the circuit to become more resistive, in turn causing more heat and resistance. The most likely scenario in my opinion is that the voltage mismatch could kill the flashcart and this has the potential to damage the console if it happens.

I've only had one system "die" from flashcard usage and that as a DS Lite but it was just the F1 fuse and was a very common problem on the DS to begin with so I can't blame the flashcard.

My N64 died a few months ago... It was such a smart console too. I would pet it, play with it, and rubbed the reset button when I needed to. :'( ...I didn't even get to say goodbye or use an everdrive on it. *SIGH* The memories..

So I bought en everdrive for my nes from krikz few months back. The N8. In the description it says this. "Voltage shift buffers on PPU and CPU bus for matching levels between 5v NES bus and 3.3 EverDrive bus. Far better than simple resistor buffers at reducing noise and power consumption." Is that a version where this problem does not exist or what? I am a complete moron about these things, I just play games :P

I don't even have my snes and Genesis anymore, I been using my everdrives on the super retro trio

been using a krikzz everdrive on my genesis four 3 years now never had any issues !

I want an Sd2snes so that I can make Fmv Snes games because it is interesting. Rondo of Blood on Snes could be possible with flashcarts

If you think Svideo looks good try going to scart and getting a scart to HDMI box.. the colours pop and the Saturn looks amazing

Alright, I'm an electronic engineer and you have nothing to worry about. In my opinion 3.3 volts and 5 volts aren't really that much of a difference. And the chips are likely designed to handle a little more than 5 volts because surges are common in households. Not to mention the fact that every time you turn an electronic device on, there is a surge that happens for an instant. It's part of how electricity works. Also as a PC gamer, when you overclock your processor and graphics cards, you often need to "overvoltage" them to keep it running stable. Yeah it will shorten the life of the chips but it won't kill them right away unless you go crazy. So in the case of the flash carts, it's something to be aware of but nothing to really worry about. The fact is, every machine and device only lasts so long. This may shorten the life span of some electronic components but I don't think most people will notice. And when that time comes, send it over to someone like me and we'll fix it for you. :)

in 2021 has anyone made a 5v flash cart yet?

"You don't have to go..with personal attacks on people 'cause they disagree with you." You just described a LOT of the internet, lol.

IDK i have my Mega everdrive for a year, & i don't see any issues

I saw this article too and I hope it's wrong. I use Everdrives on 4 of my systems all the time (NES, Genesis, GBA and N64) and I haven't noticed any issues

I've never had an issue with using a flash cart. But the cheap flash carts make my Genesis run a little hotter about the same as VR. As for a flash cart killing a NES maybe since those older chips run kinda hot to begin with. However I don't know anyone who plays the NES long enough to kill one lol.

Thanks for the video

i own several everdrives, and i stil collect, it only made me better at collecting cause i have he patience to pick out the best deal/ condition for the games i want now, recently picked up kirby 64 complete (im in pal teritory) for just 100 euros/114 bucks. the thing with everdrives is, and no one tells u this that you should not keep taking them out and pushing them into the console all the time since the contacts are a bit wider so the cartridge slot might mess up

1:32 I love intros like this

As a mildly experienced DIY-er I may safely state that you can convert 5V to 3.3V by simple couple of voltage divider resistors or Zener diodes. This shall introduce a quite mild increase in current, and therefore - stress on system's power source. If the engineer is not a cheapo, one may introduce a pulse power DC-DC converter and there shall be no increase in current and temperature whatsoever. There is another more significant threat. Most flash carts are effectively a computer-on-a-chip with tens or hundreds times more processing power than the host system itself (think 2600 carts). Such processing power may require more wattage (and therefore current) than the original cart intended for the system. Most systems are designed for expandability (Sega for its 32x, SNES for SuperFX chip, GBA for rumble etc.) so they can cope with extra hardware. However it may become an issue for certain devices, like TurboExpress or GameGear due to their limited design. SD2Snes may also pose an issue due to it's MASSIVE resources.

that is essentially the same as a putting in a resistor, the resistor lowers the voltage and the excess voltage is transferred to heat. A 1 volt difference isn't going to fry a board. Put a desk fan blowing over it or install a case fan if you're worried about it. In hindsight why are they designed at 3.3V and not 5V?

even damage can come from you not unplugging your system....the system can hold power even after being unplugged for weeks

So it looks like I've struck a few nerves with this video but I'm not exactly sure why. For the record, dBElectronics science was correct, like I said in the video. From what I've gathered by talking with people and reading statements, as shown in the video, I think the long term ramifications are exaggerated. It's funny how NintendoLife used a similar headline but no one really attacked them because they sort of sided with dB, whereas I agree with his science but don't think it's a long term issue, yet no one had problems with that article. Sorry if you feel this is "clickbait" or whatever, and maybe I could have worded things differently, but I stand by everything I said in this video and feel that it is correct. Thanks for watching!

Some consoles actually use 3.3V like the gameboy and the N64, And newer, higher quality flashcarts like the SD2SNES have regulators which will make things safer. Just know what you're dealing with when it comes to multi carts and flashcarts.

I betcha the reason why most people can't get the Atari Jaguar CD to work is because they kept using the wrong power adapter. I remember AVGN claim that he used a bunch of them on his Jag CD and none of them work. You would think that he should know one of those hundreds of adapters is the culprit to his suffering.

I haven't even watched this yet and my first thought is 'how do you kill something that isn't even in production any more' edit: oh ok I misunderstood the title, I thought this was like the youtubers killing retrogaming video Great job btw, I'm an idiot too and that's why I was hoping you contacted MyLifeInGaming because those guys are great

At this point, wouldn't it be more of a worry that old systems will die eventually on their own? I don't think flash carts will change the fact that eventually all of these units will bite the dust.

People need to watch until the end. He is not bashing flash carts. In any case, true, theres something about putting an original cart in that the flash cart cannot match, HOWEVER, I also really liked CDs,CD cases and the art, and PC games on CD, but like f*%k am I ever going back to those and keeping a huge sterilite bin to have access to

I just want to clarify something here. The flashcarts have 3.3v electronics in them (FPGA's, flash memory) that are being powered with 3.3v 'stepped' from the consoles 5v. The problem that Rene is saying is with these carts is that they 'improperly' interface the two voltages, and that there are better, 'more proper' ways to do it with a minimal increase in manufacturing costs. I think this is all blown way out of proportion as Rene is a bit of a 'purist' for lack of a better term. But he does have a point, and Krikzz has stated that in future revisions he plans to implement the voltage stepping 'properly'.

I once blew my Super Famicom due to bad Power Supply , actually that incident blew hardware on my Multicart , now when ever I use that cart it kills my SFC may be some Capacitors died

I feel confident when using Krikzz' products

I bought a everdrive for my gameboy and i dont play as much gameboy anymore, when you have every game for the gameboy at your finger tips you dont play them as much as a real bought cartdrige.

Ever since I discovered the GPD XD Gamepad, my Sky3DS and Gateway cards are collecting dust in a drawer. This is a portable multi console that fits in your pocket. For some systems, the emulation is lacking but the general emulator support is stellar. I'm still waiting for someone to put up a video claiming that Obama is killing the retro gaming scene.

Watching this video is like watching you talk about medical conditions. Completely unqualified, yet you feel like you are qualified enough to make a video.

I am going to have to go play Asteroids now :)

Thanks for you descriping. I woried about, schould i buy nin 64 games from china? Cause of that 5v problem. You descriped the situation veey well. Thanks. Respect for you.

Hey maybe some are firing away a little too much here, remember the Street Fighter II 30th Anniversary Cartridge that came with a disclaimer that it could set your SNES on fire... we're talking something Capcom put their stamp on... I still want that thing as a collectible, but I passed up the pre-order as it just seemed like too much of a cash grab and I still have my OG.

3:37 - "I've been using a flash cart with my GBA SP and haven't had any problems" The GBA platform runs at 3.3V. It's not affected by this issue. This is an issue that occurs as a result of 3.3V hardware (flash carts, mostly) being added to 5V systems (game consoles through about "fourth generation" - SNES and Genesis are 5V, N64 for instance is not)

Unless the flashcart is self-powered (which they aren't) they'll potentially use chips rated for a higher voltage, but unless the connected system is supplying a higher voltage than it operates at (which it won't) then the voltage being returned to the system cannot be higher (or lower for all practical purposes) than what is supplied. And I haven't seen any voltage regulation or level-translation hardware on any official retro cart, so... This is a non issue brought up by people who barely know what voltage means. You could argue that flashcarts don't have as good ESD protection, but retro systems used physical ESD protection in the shape of ports and carts and no clamping diodes (TVS or otherwise).

I wish flash carts didn't cost so much 😭. Shipping it here to NZ, I almost have to get a mortgage.

The only statement this guy got right was, 'I'm an idiot.' Otherwise, the logical falacies were stupendous. And I always love when people say, 'I'm no expert...' and then shoot down objective facts which they have no concept of. Also, just so you know, reading a few posts and doing a poll on Facebook is not research.

As someone who is studying the field of electronics, my word is far from law, but I can easily say that the voltage being one or two volts higher shouldn't be an issue UNLESS the current is significantly higher. 9 times out of 10, failure of an electronic circuit due to power input is directly attributed to current. Even if the voltage is a few degrees too high, if the rate at which the voltage goes in is too much, the bottleneck from the diodes and resistors will cause a short and a chain reaction, blowing the circuit. If you power, say a laptop with the wrong type of power supply, even if the voltage is 2 volts higher, if the amps are the same, it is very rare for there to be any significant damage.

Tbh the prices are what kicked off the death of vintage consoles. Some games are just not available because if territory or price

The only original games that are still affordable are usually sports games. Classic RPG's and such are expensive, so expensive that fake original cartridges are starting to circulate on the market. Flashcarts, to me, enable collectors to protect and preserve their original carts from extra wear and tear, yet still play those original games. It also permits one to run some homebrew games that someone recently could have made for an extinct retro system.

If the supply voltage is 5v and the recipient wants 3.3 (though they absoutely designed them to work fine with a 5v source), the source (nes) will not feel a thing because it's the cartridge that must rid itself of the excess energy. The flash cart will just run a bit hotter than a standard game. If I plug a 10v ac adapter in an NES the system will run hotter while regulating the voltage down. No strain would be placed on the ac adapter.

Good, let ebay sellers sit on their stock so it plummets a bit

The cart receives the 5v and outputs 3.3v. The only component that being supplied with the wrong voltage is the cart. I have seen carts that's pinout is too thick or wide and slowly grinds the ports.

ben heck has spoken about everdrives in his videos before , i bet he can check if the issue is legit

Speaking as an engineer, no, the science is not there. Not even a little bit. The Nintendo has an internal voltage of 5v the typical low end flash cart runs on 3.3v. This means that the nes can take anything the flash cart can dish out, however, in theory the nes could burn out your flash cart if it is not well designed. But seriously a first year EET student knows how to prevent that problem.

All game carts have the rom chip. Emulation is on the system end not on the rom end

well seeing alot of people not having problems it seems like its not a big problem ive been using multicarts for a long time on my famicom system no problems still if thats the case then the duck hunt/super mario game that has a fc converter would have caused a problem

Absolutely bs... Imagine a ds breaking after entering a r4 for 1 to 2 years... I have 2 ds an old one and a new one and both workbfine since 5 years with heavy r4 usage