RimWorld Science: How does Temperature Work? - RimWorld Alpha 16 Thermodynamics SCIENCE!!!

Рет қаралды 57,945

7 жыл бұрын

RimWorld Science: How does Temperature Work? - RimWorld Alpha 15 Thermodynamics SCIENCE!!! (How RimWorld temperature equalizes across rooms.)
** WHAT RIMWORLD MECHANIC SHOULD WE INVESTIGATE NEXT? LEAVE YOUR SUGGESTION IN THE COMMENTS! **
====
Subscribe, so you don't miss the next one: goo.gl/pqSzho
Follow me on Twitter: / bjorn_strongarm
====
THERMODYNAMICS, or the science of HEAT. If you’ve ever tried to keep a freezer cold in a heatwave, or keep a room warm on an ice sheet, you know that heat leaks through walls and doors. This process of temperature equalization is mysterious and ill-understood, although there are some general principles to keep in mind:
1. Double walling gives better insulation than single-walling.
2. Larger rooms are better insulated than smaller ones.
3. Square rooms are better insulated than non-square ones.
But why is this? In this video we look at the mechanics of temperature equalization. Apart from a quick look at vents and doors, we look in particular at how temperature leaks through walls and roofs. Each room has a wall equalization value, a thin roof equalization value, and a no roof equalization value. Every 120 game ticks, the game ‘adds’ the equalization value to the room’s temperature, and then re-calculates.
The roof values are a function of (i) the difference between the room temp and the outdoor temp, and (ii) the percentage of the room with that kind of roof (including ‘no roof’). However, when more than 1/4 of a room is unroofed, the room suddenly just uses the outdoor temperature instead.
Wall equalization is more complex. Every room has “sample tiles,” which include its wall tiles (excluding corners) and the tile just on the other side of the wall. Each sample tile gets a value, and the room’s equalization value is the sum of all its tile’s values. A tile’s value is calculated by
((Temp on the other side of the wall - room temp)/room size) x 0.0102
However, if the sample tile on the other side of the wall is occupied by a wall itself, then that sample tile gets a zero, and the wall tile gets a value calculated not by the temperature ‘on the other side of the wall’, but by the outdoor temperature. This means that you can get some weird effects if you double-wall an indoor wall.
Sound complex? It is! But hopefully the video will make it all a little bit clearer.
=====
RimWorld follows three survivors from a crashed space liner as they build a colony on a frontier world at the rim of known space. Inspired by the space western vibe of Firefly, the deep simulation of Dwarf Fortress, and the epic scale of Dune and Warhammer 40,000.
Manage colonists' moods, needs, individual wounds, and illnesses. Engage in small-team tactical gunplay. Fashion structures, weapons, and apparel from metal, wood, stone, cloth, or futuristic materials. Fight pirate raiders, hostile tribes, rampaging animals, giant tunnelling insects and ancient killing machines. Tame and train cute pets, productive farm animals, and deadly attack beasts. Watch colonists develop relationships with family members, lovers, and spouses. Discover a new generated world each time you play. Build colonies in the desert, jungle, tundra, and more. Manage quirky colonists with unique backstories, traits, and skills. Learn to play easily with the help of an intelligent and unobtrusive AI tutor.
RimWorld is currently in Open Alpha, and the current version is RimWorld Alpha 16. You should get it!
RimWorld Alpha 16 from Ludeon Studios: RimWorldgame.com/
RimWorld Alpha 16 on Steam: store.steampowered.com/app/294...
====
About Bjorn Strongndarm’s Let’s Play: Games are fun! But they’re more fun when you share them with others. I aim to provide mature but family-friendly commentary in a way that enhances the story that unfolds in the game. In my RimWorld gameplay commentary, I try to draw out the stories of the colonists themselves as much as possible. Having fun is more important than winning. Remember, Losing is Fun! (At least, if Done Right.)
(Oh, and p.s.: It’s pronounced “Strong-in-the-arm”. With thanks to Sir Terry Pratchett.)
====
My RimWorld Let’s Play series:
Series 1 (RimWorld Alpha 14):
• [Blind] Bjorn Plays Ri...
Series 2 (RimWorld Alpha 15):
• Bjorn Plays RimWorld A...
Series 3 (RimWorld Alpha 15):
• Bjorn's Randy Random R...
Series 3 (RimWorld Alpha 16):
• Bjorn Plays RimWorld A...
====
Credits (outro music):
“AT1”, by Synapsis
freemusicarchive.org/music/Syn...
Licensed under Creative Commons 3.0

Пікірлер: 110

@akselst 7 жыл бұрын

Larger rooms aren't more insulated, they just contain more heated air, so losing that heat takes longer. (Or the opposite in this case, they keep cold longer).

@BjornStrongndarm 7 жыл бұрын

Yeah, truth. I shouldn't have said it that way. My bad.

@someonerandom9939 7 жыл бұрын

what he meant was as gas expands it gets colder if this isnt what happens in the game then thermodynamics are broken i dont experiment but you arent any closer to building the enterprise yet

@fiona9891 6 жыл бұрын

+Someone Random Rimworld doesn't simulate fluid dynamics.

@fra_dp 6 жыл бұрын

The question is another. In real world physics, while the temperature of the room is linked to the volume (x^3), the heat dissipation is linked to the surface of walls (x^2). The ratio volume/surface is the key. So when you double the room size, the volume goes 8 times up (2^3), while the total surface of the walls will be only 4 times more (2^2). The bigger the room, the bigger the volume/surface ratio. So that's why a bigger room will always take more time to equalize temperature with the outside, than a smaller one (given that the pressure inside the rooms is the same, as well as the materials used). It's curious how Rimworld, a 2D game, actually simulates a typical situation of a 3D environment.

@VisciousPhishes 7 жыл бұрын

Best RimWorld series on KZfaq, right here.

@vikkiTV212 7 жыл бұрын

I love these .... you put so much work into them.... thank you!

@MrPandaCavalry 7 жыл бұрын

This answered a lot of questions I had been kicking around about my rimworld fridges. I was thinking of suggesting this as soon as I found your rimworld sciences! keep up the good work!

@BjornStrongndarm 7 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Glad you liked it!!

@sirhamalot8651 7 жыл бұрын

So...I feel like you missed an opportunity to tell us the best configuration and placement for a freezer and for living quarters in either a hot or cold climate. Very cool vid, but not sure of the practical use. Square, double walled and big rooms, but is it better under a mountain for a freezer? Is it better to have living quarters with thin roofs? Should rooms be connected with vents? If so, how many, what placement, what about different sized airlocks, or airlocks with coolers in them...so many unanswered questions. Part 2?

@DCDevTanelorn 7 жыл бұрын

Michael Hamilton I agree. I think you need to take more time at the end of each video to discuss and recommend strategies based on your findings.

@BjornStrongndarm 7 жыл бұрын

So, right, there's still a lot more to say about temperature. I can't cover everything in one video, and this covered the foundational stuff that is needed before we can start looking at more practical applications. If you do want to get some strategies out of this one, they're these: Double wall your freezer, make it square, and put it underground. Whether you should double-wall it when it comes in contact with other rooms is finicky, though, and depends on how hot it is outside. Simple version: if outdoor temp - freezer temp is more than 2x next-room-temp - freezer temp, you should double-wall. Otherwise, single-wall. Other questions need more research. I wasn't able to find out a lot of what I wanted to know about vents, so to figure out how to best use vent-related strategies is going to take more work. This video had already gotten about as long as these videos can handle, so that stuff will have to wait for another one.

@BjornStrongndarm 7 жыл бұрын

I'm not quite sure what you're saying. Was it about whether squares are better? Squares did better with both double and single walling compared to non-squares with the same type of walling. That's because the wall equalization value goes by counting how many walls there are, and then dividing by the room size (plus some other stuff). If the walls are doubled, that number is halved. But square rooms have the best wall-number-to-room-size ratio. Every non-square of the same size room will have more walls. So you'll minimize the equalization value, holding everything else fixed, if you go square. (It might not be a big enough change to make a difference, but it will be a little more efficient.) Also, building underground is no better *for walls* than just building double walls. The real value of building underground is that you remove the roof equalization.

@titanjones 7 жыл бұрын

Overall the majority of the videos are not that useful

@nekoimouto4639 7 жыл бұрын

so as a rule of thumb if the outside climate is hotter than 21°C on average, we should use singlewalls?

@danno7967 7 жыл бұрын

Good stuff Bjorn. I would like to sea your ideas on efficient base designs.

@sossololpipi9633 6 жыл бұрын

*to SEA*

@ojgfhuebsrnvn2781 Жыл бұрын

Really good video that covers the topic almost entirely. Once doible wall indoors was shown using value from outdoors question came up and it was only thing that wasnt covered. If we have double wall inside single wall inside another single wall, will it use number from outside or from outer ring? Its quite important because if it is outside, then it means double wall room deep inside reduce insulation. And is isnt clear how double wall inside would change outer room tempreture. I guess i will test it myself in a few days

@WJS774 4 жыл бұрын

This is a really interesting look at insulation, a lot of it re room size and shape mirrors what I would expect, and confirming that you _do_ lose heat through the roof too is important. What I'd really like to see though is a look at what _creates_ heat in the first place. Generators seem to, and I _think_ pawns give off body heat but I'm not sure, and what _else_ might give off heat I don't know.

@kimminer8156 4 жыл бұрын

Can you do production time and temperature and/or lighting of the room? I have my stove and butcher block in the freezer, and I'd like to know if it's worthwhile to walk through a door to pick up items versus produce in the cold.

@covovker 7 жыл бұрын

Awesome research on this, lots of speculations resolved. Thanks!

@BjornStrongndarm 7 жыл бұрын

Very welcome!

@danielcolucci267 7 жыл бұрын

Awesome video man, everything except the double walling on indoor rooms follows real thermodynamics, and will hopefully be fixed in the next patch?? Well done, and looking forward to the next instalment !!

@Krommandant 6 жыл бұрын

Thanks! The base I am currently building has a 3x1 indoor chimney (8 cooler units) for my giant freezer (22x12) and I was wondering if removing one or all the roof tiles above the chimney was more efficient. Since all roof tiles are removed it is considered as a room but also as outside the base. The reason for my giant freezer is I built a huge farming industry to finance my colony.

@EpicUltraKingSmizzy 7 жыл бұрын

yo bjorn, You do an amazing job with your content, and i hope you know that. If rimworld were as popular as minecraft, your videos wouldve blown up by now for sure. Keep up the great work and i hope you get as lucky as you deserve.

@andrasfogarasi5014 7 жыл бұрын

Now let's use this knowledge to break the second law of thermodynamics.

@BjornStrongndarm 7 жыл бұрын

Step 1: Find out how temperature works in RimWorld. Step 2: Use said knowledge to break thermodynamics. Step 3: ??? Step 4: Profit!

@hellowelcometochillis2781 5 жыл бұрын

@@BjornStrongndarm 3. Accidentaly burn your colonists to death

@jyisc2 6 жыл бұрын

rimworld game mechanics and explanation? Instant Sub

@ReZpawner 6 жыл бұрын

1.0 is in testing, any chance you'll be making a new series of Rimworld Science in the near future? :)

@skavies2351 5 жыл бұрын

I would have liked to see more information on hallway heat. Specifically, can we use a long hallway with open doors on each end (multiple open doors on each end?) and a heater or two to give attackers heat stroke as they walk down this hallway? Is there a maximum amount of open doors on each end that will each slow the heat loss of the hallway enough for this to be viable? Maybe it would work better on a cold map with coolers to super freeze the hallway? (probably not, on cold maps invaders come with better clothes to deal with the cold) It would have to be a hallway with open doors, or they would use sappers to bypass it. I know I could use a twisting hallway with doors on each end, wait for them to get inside the hallway then close the doors and turn up the heat, but I'm looking for a no maintenance version of this.

@sylphsylph2118 5 жыл бұрын

thats posible easilly,its my killbox

@TheHamerer 7 жыл бұрын

I'd like to see a melee weapon comparison as well. mostly to see blunt vs piercing, but also if the slow heavy weapons really outclass the fast ones.

@BjornStrongndarm 7 жыл бұрын

Yeah, this is a good idea, and it's definitely on my list of episodes-to-do.

@dacianhantig7810 6 жыл бұрын

Hey Bjorn, would you care to re-check this for Alpha 17?

@themechanicalentry8353 7 жыл бұрын

What about making a video about the science of how your colony gets dirty? Do rooms get dirty spontaneously if nobody walks through dirt? Does it make a difference if a colonist walks through one dirt tile or a hundred before entering the tile area? If you walk through a slightly dirty room and then into the clean room, does dirty get carried? At which rate? What about other tiles, like rock tiles? What about dirt tiles that aren't exactly dirty, such as plant fields? What about a closed room, does it ever get dirty? What if the roof is mountain? Is there some sort of dirt flow through wind?

@BjornStrongndarm 7 жыл бұрын

That's a really, really good set of questions. I'd never thought of them, but now I'm really wondering!

@EvilNecroid 6 жыл бұрын

i have made a base 4 walls thick into a mountain and its -30c outside but inside is getting colder the bigger my base gets? i thought hiding that thick into the mountain would make it easier but im running out of power from building more heaters

@pleonektein1430 5 жыл бұрын

you really really should have gotten the heat map mod for this

@SerenityGene 7 жыл бұрын

Good science gets a Sub and a like :)

@xavierdoesntmatter Жыл бұрын

Does this science still stand? If you build 2 rooms seperated by double walls that is bad? It'll try to equalize with the outside air basically? Kind of sucks with the new update allowing painting of walls if you want one room one color and another room another color. If you build a double wall under ground does that cause it to try to equalize with the outside? That would also kind of suck and be dumb.

@bobthesir1467 7 жыл бұрын

:D Rim World science!

@garr_inc 6 жыл бұрын

Can you investigate if this info is still relevant in B18?

@hitfan01 7 жыл бұрын

Not sure when this would be useful but it came to mind. In a cold climate (less than 0) would it actually be beneficial to only have single walls to keep a room cold? From what i understand the double walls count as 0 so a cold climate would be less than 0 and cause less heat loss.

@BjornStrongndarm 7 жыл бұрын

So, the double walls don't count as zero, but (if they're bordering the outside) they just halve the outside effect. So, if the outside is *colder* than you want the inside to be inside, having single walls will be more efficient. BUT -- if you're in that situation, maybe better to just open up a wall so the room takes the outdoor temperature, and not worry about cooling it at all.

@TimmacTR 7 жыл бұрын

Subscribed.

@BjornStrongndarm 7 жыл бұрын

Welcome to the channel!

@TimmacTR 7 жыл бұрын

Can't argue with quality content.. ;)

@MrSchottlander 7 жыл бұрын

Please Test how many walls a raider sapper will tunner through and if there are methods of forcing raiders into a bottleneck

@BjornStrongndarm 7 жыл бұрын

I have been thinking about how to test that for some time now. Game AI is actually pretty tricky to test, but I am trying to see what I can come up with.

@Ziplock9000 Жыл бұрын

2:12 No, they have more thermal mass, not better insulation.

@christiangibson1867 4 ай бұрын

I don't think rimworld models thermal mass.

@Teneombre 7 жыл бұрын

So, if I understand well : Even If your fridge is in your base (with is cooler than outside by let's say10-20°C (so 15-20°C against 27-35), It's worth to put a double wall fonction, because it divide the number of samble tile by 2 (so unless the outside temp is two time highter, it's worth). But what if we put a triple wall ? Did the second tile is also put to zéro ? (I try to follow the video but I'm not a native english speaker and I understand well easier with text than speak. It's seems not but I want to be sure). I must finish the video, I have to see if you analysed the best way to cool down a room. Because if I understand well, each cooler will imply a two sample tile (you cant double the wall here). Edit : as a scientific, I REALLY like the way you work :) I just saw that for the larger wall experiment you didn't fix the wall material (You put all of them). It's not bad because here, it didn't ask for found or a lot of time to prepare but it's can be tricky if both (material for wall and wall larger) have an effect (in this case, you will say that we just have to compare each room (simple wall and double wall) this the one in the same material but anyway ^^)

@BjornStrongndarm 7 жыл бұрын

Thanks! I did test the triple-wall way back at the beginning and it has no extra effect beyond the double wall, though you're right that I didn't try it in multiple materials. That's because we originally saw that for single and double walls the material didn't make a difference, so I assumed it wouldn't for the triple. (That would be a bad assumption in real life, I know, but i happen to know something about this game, which is that the developer doesn't make the mechanics any more complicated than he has to. So he wouldn't put in a thermodynamic mechanic that differed between different kind of materials, but _only_ when triple-walls were involved.) The overall recommendations here are: 1. Double wall; 2. Square room; and 3. Under a mountain (so no heat leaks through the roof). I'm also going to be doing a separate video on coolers pretty soon.

@Teneombre 7 жыл бұрын

For matherial : yes, I mean, you test it with double wall, and what I was saying is it was useless (but not so time consuming so not dramatic ^^)

@BjornStrongndarm 7 жыл бұрын

+Teneombre Ohh, got it. Thanks! Yeah, it was probably unnecessary, but if I hadn't someone else would have said "oh, the material makes a difference for double -walling, you should have tested it!" ;D

@CMZneu 6 жыл бұрын

So unless you want a cool room building under mountains is a bad idea... mmm i would have thought it would just be better insulated.

@erik00073 6 жыл бұрын

i finde it more easy to heat up a room then cooling it down.

@NipapornP 7 жыл бұрын

Cool video, but quite hot in the same way! ;)

@jet-fury 7 жыл бұрын

Shouldn't bigger rooms make it harder to retain heat? Thinking about adding a door to a hallway to to slightly improve warmth of adjacent rooms, vents next to heaters.

@BjornStrongndarm 7 жыл бұрын

You'd think so, but apparently not. People who know more real-life thermodynamics than me tell me that's accurate to real life, too. I guess how great big warehouses are able to keep cool in a hot summer, but the little office they have off to the side always has A/C blasting all day and is still sweltering. (Big rooms are harder to heat up or cool down to begin with. But once they get there, they keep that temperature for longer.)

@jet-fury 7 жыл бұрын

Wow didnt know that. So does that mean my hallways shouldnt have doors separating them in certain areas? Should I just have one long uninterrupted hallway throughout my base? I was thinking if my ACs blast hot air into the hallway that would travel through the hall and I could get away with adding vents to the rooms alongside it. Instead of having to add heaters in every room, which just looks wrong imo.

@mlgsamantha5863 7 жыл бұрын

Nope, it's all about surface area. Larger structures have larger total surface area, but also a larger volume, so their volume/surface area ratio is lower, so the rate of heat transfer per unit of volume is lower.

@ferofax 7 жыл бұрын

So... do wall tiles stop adopting outside temp? And I guess wall temp doesn't influence inside temp...

@BjornStrongndarm 7 жыл бұрын

I'm not quite sure what you mean by that. There isn't really a 'wall temp' stat -- there's just a 'tile temp' stat that is used to calculate the adjustment value.

@ferofax 7 жыл бұрын

I'm not sure how it is in A16, but in A14 and lower, if you hover the pointer over a roofed wall tile, it is usually at the outside temp, regardless of temperature of the tiles immediately surrounding it. Like, if you have a heatwave, the wall will reflect the temp of the heatwave even as the freezer is sub-zero temp. And if you have really hot walls, I just assumed that that at least affected the temp of the room it surrounds. I guess it doesn't. Or maybe it probably never did.

@symix. 7 жыл бұрын

kul kul

@Riri_734 7 жыл бұрын

How do devs think about all these science? They got some dev kit with a template for the science or devs are all secretly rocket scientists?

@BjornStrongndarm 7 жыл бұрын

I think they think it all up out of their brains, tbh.

@erik00073 6 жыл бұрын

wow

@expressionamidstcacophony390 7 жыл бұрын

Could you weaponize this? Could you practically build a heat trap to rapidly knock raiders unconscious, pop a wall tile to equalize temperature and quickly capture all of them?

@BjornStrongndarm 7 жыл бұрын

... maybe? I've always been really bad at weaponizing temperatures in this game, though I know others have got the knack.

@expressionamidstcacophony390 7 жыл бұрын

It seems plausible. I'm casually testing a 12x12 (interior dimension) room with wall baffles and numerous 1x1 sandbags to catch a 400 or 500 point raid inside a small area. From an ambient temperature of 10C, 6 heaters knock them unconscious in ~20 hours and 10 heaters in ~12 hours. I didn't look that carefully at the geyser, but it seems to have been between those two. Trouble is, the raiders are quite proficient at busting things and starting fires. Any vents require full time repair (switching pawns to keep them from going down with the raiders) and even steel walls will need a couple of patrolling repair pawns. While 6 heaters got to ~70C and 10 got to ~80C, interior walls lit on fire will bring the room up to 170C or thereabouts. Whereas, on the other hand, the massive temp drop from popping a wall tile causes the raiders to recover pretty sharpish - I haven't played with how long raiders can survive with extreme heatstroke yet, so perhaps I'm being too much a pansy there. It needs refinements. I'd like to figure out a stable room temperature that prolongs extreme heatstroke, but it will have to wait for another day.

@someonerandom9939 7 жыл бұрын

its a good start but used to have an army of them that knocked them out in half the time anyone going in has to be out quickly or they will probably be dead instead of knocked out but I would give that fate to my worst enemy

@expressionamidstcacophony390 7 жыл бұрын

OK, stable temperature (and time to loss of consciousness) appears directly related to gear rating - in a raid with mixed equipment, raiders with the highest heat tolerance from gear drop last, and it appears they quickly recover if the room temperature dips within that threshold. Quick testing suggests that pawns can be kept incapacitated for 24+ hours if the room temperature stays 5-10C above their tolerance. Naturally this means mechanoids laugh at heat traps. In hindsight that wasn't a particularly clever question. It looks like a geyser can be used early game - inside dimensions 6x6 with interior walls as baffles gets up to ~110C and is within the realm of reason as a construction project. I still have kinks to work out getting them to path reliably into the trap though.

@General12th 7 жыл бұрын

I'm sad you didn't mention how deep water plays a role in all this. Deep water acts like solid wall in some ways, but not in others. Is deep water thermodynamically identical to wall?

@BjornStrongndarm 7 жыл бұрын

So, deep water is impassable like a wall, but it doesn't create rooms. (If I have a region bounded on three sides by walls but on the fourth by deep water, the result counts as outdoors, not a room. So they really don't have any effect at all --- they're basically just a kind of 'impassable outdoors'.

@General12th 7 жыл бұрын

Hmm, okay. I've always been curious about deep water and its weird properties. Thanks for letting me know.

@chevchelios1271 7 жыл бұрын

First 19 seconds when i saw it

@rusinol2137 7 жыл бұрын

Bjorn i have a very inportant questionFew days ago my rimword save (that one where you are as a woman) was running on 40fps on 3x speed now it runs on 1 fps on 1 x speed idk what is happening its only program that is running on my laptop when i play, i lost 3 saves like that please help :(

@rusinol2137 7 жыл бұрын

And btw thanks now my food will never spoil

@BjornStrongndarm 7 жыл бұрын

Hmm, no real idea. (I assume you've tried rebooting your laptop? A memory leak somewhere else could be affecting it.) That's pretty game-breaking, but without looking at it in person I don't know i can diagnose it from a distance.

@rusinol2137 7 жыл бұрын

By rebooting you mean turning a laptop off and on again? Of yes i tried it 3 times and still not working

@BjornStrongndarm 7 жыл бұрын

+TheRudzio Games That's really weird that it has suddenly dropped so many fps. If you start a new game, does it run clean, or laggy? That will help tell you if the problem is the save or the game itself.

@rusinol2137 7 жыл бұрын

Its a save game new one works very clean and smoothly