Maybe with less stories about your childhood. 1 min in I already wanna leave lol

@venti9925 sorry about that. But tbf I'm hardly the only youtuber that does that for games they love

Right?

I hate to break it to you but the developers stated this theory and the others aren’t true. 8 simply just has a bad story.

@@Gamingnstuff131 devs can't state it. Only the story creator

@@Gamingnstuff131 Devs and writers words are not gospel tho. Ridley Scott once "confirmed" that Deckard was a replicant despite co-writer and Deckard himself, Harrison Ford saying he is not. Years later, Blade Runner 2 debunked the theory. Same can be said for FF8

@@newtype5005 What if Rinoa is future Ultimecia , and Ultimecia planned the plot to bring her past and squall together just to get the chance to kill him when the time is ready. By changing her past , she created a time loop that wipe off the future , but because she is so powerful she could exist beyond time. At the moment of Ultimecia death , her memories of her whole life flash in front of her , then she sees herself actually intertwine with Squall of different ages of growth , therefore she said to Squall to recall his childhood , so that she could change the memory and the past that they never met earlier. Perhaps , her soul went on to another alternated reality where she and squall live happily ever after without all these sad memories. To be continued...

It’s not true and they said they would never do it. It ads no depth. FF fans seem to have this problem where they invent head canon bullshit and tout it as fact.

It also makes for a better and more tragic story, especially since the story of FF8 is themed to love if Ultimecia does end up being Rinoa.

@@LordMalice6d9 it's not only about love, but it's also about fate, and how love can beat fate (Rinoa literally pulls Squall out of limbo with the power of love) Rinoa becoming Ultimecia (or well, the sorceress that Ultimecia/Hyne possesses) is the completion of the plot point that Rinoa worries about becoming a hated sorceress. It also ties directly into the time loop aspect of the story.

I think so too

it definitely makes things more interesting.

@@SolidShepard totally. She is like a witch so she cannot die. She need to save herself with powers but it fuck her up. Losing her memories and become Ultimecia. It is also mentioned that GF junction will cause memory lost. Over time she couldn't remember anymore but become obsessed with seed and squall but couldn't pin point why.

The Rinoa that didn't get saved? Explain man

If they ever remake this game, they should implement the R = U theory for sure. Tragic, dark, mind-blowing. Possibly one of if not, the best story in game history. Everything connects. Everything makes sense. It gives Ultimecia an entirely new perspective rather just being a cheap villain that is there for no actual reason. I'm with you on this. Since this theory came out, i can never think of FFVIII the same as i did as a kid. As a kid, i saw a happy ending! As an adult, i see that the happy ending was just the beginning of the tragedy that will become of the future. And the cycle will repeat all over again once Squall ends Ultimecia's life in the future. They both will end up in a time portal to the past to restart the timeline by meeting Edea. Not only is it now about Rinoa being Ultimecia, it's about her endless suffering, her endless cycle. Dying Ultimecia passes powers to Edea > Squall tells Edea about Seed and garden's purpose > events of FFVIII > Rinoa becomes Ultimecia in the future after all her close friends leaves the world > Rinoa now Ultimecia loses nearly all memories due to equipping the only thing left of Squall now Griever > Squall travels to future to kill Ultimecia > Ultimecia and Squall goes back into time to meet Edea > Dying Ultimecia passes powers to Edea. REPEAT. I don't feel like Ultimecia is the Rinoa that couldn't be saved. I feel like Rinoa will inevitably become Ultimecia no matter the timeline. Which is why my theory is, Squall teared up after seeing an image of Rinoa's space suit cracking. He knew the truth now. After a few glimpse of Ultimecia in his vision, he realized he should've let her die in space. That's why he teared up. But he was too in love with Rinoa that now there's no turning back. He will swear to protect Rinoa against the world and ultimately becomes Griever. He accepts the truth. Thus, continues the same timeline. The only timeline that will save the world from Ultimecia, is to let Rinoa die in space.

i just have to make sure to say that or else you will have try hards coming here saying "well achtuallly". lol

Yea only Rinoa knows what Griever even is. She was the only one to ask Squall to which he replied, "The ultimate GF". The theory make so much sense. If Square ever try to remake FFVIII they need to definitely use the R = U theory. Makes the story so much better. Possibly the one of the best stories in gaming history.

I see, you're a man of cultural as well...

Same

Hahaha my thoughts as well lol

definitely an interesting theory.

big 90's thing. lol

Thanks man. Here's hoping it gets more. Lol and I'll put it on the list. I'll get to it eventually.

She didn't really die tho. Maybe physically but like Skynet from Terminator, she went back thru time to pass her powers unto Edea. Squall was able to also go back thru time to warn Edea of the future which gave Edea the idea of SeeD and garden. This resets the timeline. An endless time loop. She will always and forever repeat the cycle. I love these time paradox mind blowing plots.

This doesn't make sense because Squall did not live in Ultimecia time. What makes more sense is that SeeDs killed Squall when he was defending her (Rinoa) ,which drove her mad. Sorceress powers are passed from one Sorcerers to another. At this time there were 3 Sorceresses Edea, Adel and Rinoa and both of them passed their powers to Rinoa. Ultimecia passed her powers to Edea, which basically generated this time loop. This is the reason why she wanted time compression. In teh end of the game when Rinoa managed to find Squall in her reality, then the loop was broken. Ultimecia from the future simply did not exist anymore.

@@doychinkutsarov9866 I really like your interpretation that the time got resolved by Rinoa finding Squall in the void... However... I feel like if the loop was ment to be broken, they could have shown this clearly by not hinting that Squall startet the cicle again. I allways felt like Ultimicias goal never had to do anything with Squall. Because of having Griever junctioned she forgot all about him only having a feeling of having lost something important just like we see the others had. Squall feeling betrayed by his sister leaving, Quistis confusing her feelings for Squall for love, Xell and Cifer hating each other while completely forgotten the reason. I allways felt that Ultimicias goal was clear... Seed's extinction before it was ever created... but she couldn't go back far enough to reach to Adell's reingn and so had to saddle for Edea and started her plans from there. Or in orher words... I am not even really sure the timeloop really was broken in the end... losing Squall and falling into despair might as well be an event in the near future. The more I look into lore of the game and it's myth of Hyne, the more I have the feeling that there is a whole sequel of a story to really break the cicle... a sequel we sadly never got or will get.

the maybe maybe will remake the game like they do now with final fantasy 7@@btothekfromg5973

For me I'd say the mass effect trilogy did all that better, but yeah, all that time between, it was definitely number 1 for me in those aspects.

If they ever remake this game, they should implement the R = U theory for sure. Tragic, dark, mind-blowing. Possibly one of if not, the best story in game history. Everything connects. Everything makes sense. It gives Ultimecia an entirely new perspective rather just being a cheap villain that is there for no actual reason. I'm with you on this. Since this theory came out, i can never think of FFVIII the same as i did as a kid. As a kid, i saw a happy ending! As an adult, i see that the happy ending was just the beginning of the tragedy that will become of the future. And the cycle will repeat all over again once Squall ends Ultimecia's life in the future. They both will end up in a time portal to the past to restart the timeline by meeting Edea. Not only is it now about Rinoa being Ultimecia, it's about her endless suffering, her endless cycle. Dying Ultimecia passes powers to Edea > Squall tells Edea about Seed and garden's purpose > events of FFVIII > Rinoa becomes Ultimecia in the future after all her close friends leaves the world > Rinoa now Ultimecia loses nearly all memories due to equipping the only thing left of Squall now Griever > Squall travels to future to kill Ultimecia > Ultimecia and Squall goes back into time to meet Edea > Dying Ultimecia passes powers to Edea. REPEAT. Now that is fricken mind-blowing.

Makes you realize why Squall was in tears after seeing visions. Right before the image of Rinoa's space suit cracking in space, you see glimpses of Ultimecia. My theory is, Squall realized the truth. Rinoa is Ultimecia. That's why he teared up realizing he should've let Rinoa die in space because now that he has gone this far there is no turning back. He knows she will become Ultimecia because of his action of saving her from space. He now will have to accept that he will protect her from the world and become Griever himself. This gives all those final visions he saw so much more meaning. It was at this moment Squall knew, he f**ked up. He will forever continue Rinoa's tragic endless cycle.

Imo the story of FF8 makes more thematic and plot relevent sense if Ultimecia is Rinoa. But Kitase says its not accurate. But that's his opinion.

@@LordMalice6d9pe he recently said he actually does not want to clearly outrule that this theory could be true kzfaq.info/get/bejne/oZ6RpraC1Ni3nps.html

It perfectly ties into the fate theme - it's almost a story of Good timeline Rinoa vs Bad timeline Rinoa (Ulti). Good Rinoa uses the power of love to save Squall - Bad Rinoa is a victim of fate and becomes twisted.

thats like using budakai 3 for dragon ball lore. lol

completely agree

Squall had an insufferable personality. I never liked his character at all. Selphie and the others really filled in the gaps for his stubbornness and moodiness.

@@60wwediva true! and thats what makes it good =) they evolve as characters, squall is not the same throughout the game! he still is a moron at the end... but not as bad as he was at the begining =P

thanks! i appreciate it. hopfully the channel will get there one day.

I'll take that as a compliment. Lol

@@SolidShepard You should! You got me curious to see this theory first hand.

@@deadhouse3889 thanks man. Honestly yesterday I was feeling very deflated and unmotivated, and its comments like this that keep me going! I genuinely appreciate it!

@@SolidShepard I know that feeling all to well. I am a visual artist and it can be hard some days or even weeks to get motivated. I usually just find something to indulge in until something sparks my creativity. Can't force it.

@@deadhouse3889 its more because I ordered a camera last week. Used it for the first time Saturday and spent the entire day editing the one video. I uploaded it Saturday night, and when I woke up my analytics showed barely anyone watched it, and those that did watch it,, the average watch time was like 44 seconds. The video was around 16 minutes long. That just really stung. Especially when I'm working 10 hour days on top of this. I at least wish if people don't like it, they would leave a comment as to why so I can fix it.

True

sorry i didn't get to your comment sooner, but yeah, it's a crazy one but a good one. lol

It was already officially stated that it’s not true. The only similarity between Rinoa and Ultimecia in the story is that they contrast each other as sorceresses.

@@kjh4496 that's the thing tho. Without the R = U theory, Ultimecia is a cheap villain. The story becomes lame. Like hey guys, here's a villain with no actual motive. She just wanna compress time. We don't know her and why she's even doing it. She just is 😆😆😆😆😆

@@hangguy209 And? That’s how she is. She is trying to prevent her own defeat and ends up being the cause of it. The theory is debunked fan fiction. Sorceresses don’t live unnatural life spans so it’s not possible for her to exist as Ultimecia in the future.

@@kjh4496 i know it's fan fiction but it would make a hell of a better plot than just throw her into the plot in the middle of the story. Without the theory she becomes a cheap villain. Ok here's the bad guy. Sorry we duped yall into thinking it's Edea but this is actually the villain 😆😆😆😆 with the theory it gives her a much darker, deeper, and tragic perspective. Making her an even better villain because of the backstory.

Many seem to agree.

No prob! Glad you enjoyed it

ikr

lol well that is certainly one way of putting it!

that's awsome. lol thanks!

What game doesn't have flaws though? It's one of my favorites personally.

I always felt FFVIII and FFIX were Nobuo Uematsu's best ff scores.

tbh when i first played it, that flew right over my head. lol i just thought she was saying seifer helped her find cid or something.

If you read the conversation at Galbadia Garden waiting room, you would have learned that Rinoa said she did not know whether Seifer had romantic interest on her or not. Rinoa fell in love with Seifer, but Seifer never revealed to her about his feelings toward her.

Means Squall is dead in the future. Ultimecia could be either Rinoa from the future or from one of the thousands alternate timelines that the time travel could cause thanks to the Junction Machine and the magic.

@@SAR-re1fx Ultimecia is the Rinoa that didn't get saved. Corrupt timeline

@@SAR-re1fx disk 1 squall was dead, disk 2 squall was from another timeline. Dead squall was in prison in time compression timeline.

I always thought the alternate timelines plot that FF7 remake went with at the end of that game, wouldnhave fit in better thematically in a FF8 remake. Ultimecia knows about the time loop where she losses, and attempts to break the cycle.

dont stop beleivin

@@SolidShepard Hahaha now I have that song stuck in my head! Every time I play the game now, I’m gonna think of Journey! 🤣🤣🤣🤣

@@cristinacho7881 lol glad to be of service.

True

Thanks man!

Yeah, it's pretty crazy

idk man. the game is weird sometimes. lol thats why i love it.

It really does make the game so much more compelling.

people tend to get widows peaks when they get older due to receding hairline.

@@SolidShepard you forgot one thing, if you look at that picture, that would be the opposite of receding.

@@yelnats24 Ultimecia is a sorceress. And FF is a franchise of mortals transforming into deity-like figures. I do not disagree with you that they do not share facial qualities, but I would say Rinoa undergoing a complete transformation of appearance is not out of the realm of possibility.

I'm definitely glad it was my first ff game

Exactly. Tbh, idk why square pushes so hard against it. If I was them, and it wasn't my intention, I'd still be like "yeah...thats totally what happened. Yall are too smart for us". Lol

its only a thoery. lol if thats your theory, i wont try to take it away from you.

I have another theory... . What if it turns out that Ultimecia is the daughter of Rinoa and Squall? Just like Squall who is always disturbed by the existence of Laguna. In the end, everything is just a time loop that can stop if Rinoa and Squall are not together.

i disagree with the junctions system. i really liked it. but thats just a matter of opinion. and dont feel like you have to follow cannon when playing a game. do what makes you enjoy it most.

@@SolidShepard Right on!! Cheers, man!

I played FF8 without junctions one time and I agree.

I'd take a remake

@@SolidShepard final fantasy 8 is my hands down favorite final fantasy out of all the final fantasies..

@@Grimerpr2016 mine as well.

if you really pay attention, there are several hints at it though. the only argument i've ever seen is why would they hide such a big plot detail as that...but they did the same thing with squall being laguna and raine's son, and that is accepted as fact. rinoa tells him she never wanted that moment to end as i illustrated in the video. and of course you are right, the major themes are love and coming of age. but another major plot point it seems everyone just disregards is memory loss due to the GF's. i truly believe if it was true, she wouldn't even remember why she wanted to do all this in the first place. she would not remember who she really was, and she would not remember squall. all that would be left are the lingering subconscious feelings and regrets driving her. i mean they spent so much time talking about memory loss dangers of the gf's, then did nothing with that after the basketball court scene at trabia garden. to me it just makes sense. even if the devs admit its not true and square comes out and 100% refutes it, i dont really care. it makes too much sense to me.

@@SolidShepard I’m just now hearing this theory and on the same page. The idea of Ultimecia being a bitter twisted Rinoa demented by grief and amnesia is such a powerful story and perfectly ties into the theme of the story, that being accepting fate and impermanence.

True

@@SolidShepard Nobody explains how everybody got back to that ending where it's like a "And they lived happily ever after". the background was all white and all kept running around. Dissidia opens a door to where Squall left to after meeting his younger self and then moment where he walks alone it could be after all the Dissidia storylines. realizing that their love and hate lasted in infinite timelines. The moment where Rinoa finds him THAT'S where she becomes Ultimecia. While we see all the gatherings that's just her dream while in reality Rinoa already became Ultimecia and started killing everyone. I mean everyone has their own theory but look at all the other games with timelines changing. MK9, MW7, MW2, etc

@@Sinraiser idk. I personally don't think this version of Rinoa becomes ultimecia. Like I said, I think this iteration of her and squall are the ones to break the cycle.

@silentscope1483 I don't really tbh.

@silentscope1483 lol I might consider it. Haven't been able to upload in quite awhile because l8fe kicked me in the nuts. But I'm about to start again finally here in a day or 2. I might decide to if I can find enough to make a video out of.

I mean, in ocarina of time, link taught the song of storms to the guy who taught it to him...it's called a bootstrap paradox.

Technically she received her powers from Edea, then Adel. Ultimecia only possessed the sorceresses she wasnt there in person. Edea receives the dying Ultimecia's power despite her already being a sorceress

Wonder if he saw my video. Lol

@@SolidShepard Sorry, it wasn't Nomura. It was Yoshinori Kitase. I tracked down my source for you: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/oZ6RpraC1Ni3nps.html&ab_channel=reibitto

Everyone is entitled to their theories. But me myself, i just find the loop I discussed in the video, and it finally being broken, to just be cleaner narrative wise.

@@SolidShepard I like that theory, too, because that means that even if the Rinoa=Ultimecia theory is true, there is still a happy ending.

not according to the book i read. kitase did dismiss it, but he never flat out said "no its not true"

@@SolidShepard He said it wasn't part of the plan, very recently so, too. You claim he's the highest authority in your video. By your own logic that would outright disown the theory.

@@SolidShepard Kitase debunked it in the interview. Also Kitase/Nomura are just like Akira Toriyama that they won’t ever outright tell you “no that theory is wrong” as they rather “leave it up to the fans” so they can enjoy their own theories. But it’s been made *very clear* that the R= U theory is not what their aim was for the game. Nobody is saying not to enjoy this theory, but *you’re being a try-hard* by trying to dismiss all the evidence against it.

And I played pizza hut demo first too and my mum got it for me at Christmas too my fav game

@@chrisphipps432 it definitely adds to the story. And yeah. This game is so important to me. Viii is the game that made me fall in love with gaming. Also, the friend of my stepmom that I mentioned that rented it for me...there is a reason I mentioned her. A few years later, she actually passed away in her bedroom on her birth day. She apparently had only been eating Popsicles for weeks and her body gave out. We were coming over to celebrate her bday, and when we got there, her husband went to go get her and found her there...so playing this game, and talking about it in a video is kind of my way to keep her memory alive as well. Its a really important game to me on several levels.

its up there for me.

True

I mean, I feel like that's what fnaf did. It was probably just going to be a 1 off game, but then dude saw matpat's videos on it and was like "I can do something with this".

well darn. case closed ig.

@@SolidShepard Glad I could help. ☺️ Oh, don't forget that since Ultimecia likes to use Ks instead of Cs, her real name's probably Mortal Kombat.

Question is how did squall become greiver, leading to rinoa being able to junction him? And if he was, why would she become evil, considering squall would always be with her in her brain? I like where your head is at, but I can't think of a way to have it make sense.

The answer lies in FFX

Agreed

One of my all times favourites.

@@robthames5065 you are entitled to your wrong opinion.

It's possible...but she uses her mother's last name due to her strained relationship with her father. Also, caraway and Julia hooked up after laguna never returned from his mission after that hotel room scene. That's when she wrote eyes on me. Laguna and her never actually slept together so it's impossible for him to be the father unfortunately.

@@SolidShepard Yes, i have to play again and seek for this Thx mate for the help here

yeah. like i said, as long as no one is spouting it like its canon, i dont really see the problem with fandoms having their theories.

It definitely is

I know right

I agree, but the debunked argument is that she pulled griever from squalls mind

Well it is just a theory. Many from square have said its not true.

I agree with you about Rinoa but I think that could also be a hint. Rinoa is very unlikeable so that could hint at her becoming a villain.

Such is the way with those early text based dialog games. Lol

I used to call her Riona when I was a kid. Progress.

when exactly did they admit they put no passion into the story? you just sound like the other 7 fanboys who love to hate on 8. it's fine if you dont like the theory, or even the game, but come on dude...most basically everything you said is just false. kitase never even outright debunked it. the only one who did was Nomura, who was the character designer.

she doesn't remember it's herself. she doesn't remember anything. its a pretty big plot point about GF's and memory loss in the game.

@@SolidShepard yet renoa has never used the GF until she joins squall's party on top of that squall never gave rinoa the griever ring zell did after borrowing it from squall and then Squall allowed her to keep it and ultimecia drew graver from squall's mind

yeah, but that isn't nearly as interesting.

yeah but this is really out of place in the way how they telling story before Ultimecia arrives, everything is connected in ff8, everybody, past, present, and future... and then you suddenly drops in a villain who does not has any connection at all to everything has comes before???

I'm aware. I addressed this.