Ultimecia was affecting the timeline through Junction Machine Ellone to condense the Sorceress powers together to gain enough power to cast Time Compression. Normal Sorcesses sometimes are corrupted by the power like you mentioned i.e. Adel. What if this super concentrate she made really took over when she started to lose? Panicking and losing self control. The power originally came from Hyne, and it was only half his power. Half splint among countless women. Ulti condensed this through the timeline using Odine's machine. Perhaps all that was too much. She kept control until she started taking damage, and emotionally lost her concentration when she thought she may lose. The power may have taken on it's own will, or maybe became Hyne himself, leaving Ulti "Rinoa" junctioned to it. Could explain the drawing of apocalypse. Great video! You got me thinking back on one of the games, one of the all around stories that helped inspire me to be who I am today.

The dangling body has Ultimecia's face, the face we see in her first stage of battle as well as on her head when she was junctioned to Griever. It means the dangling body is her original body, it host her sorcerer's power which is the source of her power. Using Scan on the dangling body revealed that this is the point from which her power generates. She can cast ultimate magic (Apocalypse) through power generated here. Using Scan on the large body reveal that it is her new body she created so she can absorb the power that she gain via Time Compression. The scan revealed that the dangling body is the source of her own power, not power of others that she absorbed such as via junction or time compression (the power from time compression would be on the large body), it further confirm that the dangling body is her original self. In short, the dangling body host her original power while the large body host the power she gain from time compression. The reason why the large body (new body) can cast other magic without drawing from her original body is because they are magic that had been previously performed in the world, so they can be reused from the time (past) that has been absorbed. Apocalypse has never been performed before so the large body cannot get it from the absorbed time, it has to draw it from the dangling body which is her true source of power. Note that the barren ground that transform into flower field is the setting when Rinoa rescue Squall after the final battle. It appear in Dissidia world because of memory. Squall was still unconsciuous when the transformation happened so it wasn't from his memory. The only other person during that moment was Rinoa, which means she is the owner of that memory. It prove that Rinoa is summoned to Dissidia world after her final battle against Ultimecia. As such, it is no brainer that Rinoa also know Apocalypse as she has seen Ultimecia using it. It is Rinoa who draw Apocalypse from Ultimecia (you can do it in the game) and make it as her own magic.

Take a closer look at the face of the dangling body. It's very clearly Ultimecia. My personal theory is that the final form is in fact Ultimecia junctioned to the god Hyne.

Good work on your vidoe dude you rock

This is so legit. Big ups on the Apocalypse catch! Epic epic epic! And btw the attacks do look similar. You see the golden circle appear in Dissidia

I JUST MADE A DISCOVERY!!! IF YOU SEARCH “FINAL FANTASY 8 GARDEN SYMBOL” THIS LOOKS LIKE ULTIMECIA FINAL BOSS FORM WTF!!!!! BLACK OK TOP (Ultimecia) WHITE ON BOTTOM (RInoa) as shown in this video!!!

The bottom half and top half of the final form boss are clearly separate entities that are junctioned. If the top half is true Ultimecia (as the game actually states) - who the hell is the bottom half? Square's statement that R!=U is still true! And fits this theory 100%. Notice too that human-Ultimecia is shown to have horn-like hair, in the final battle they separate and the bottom half now has long straight, flowing hair (much like Rinoa's but grey and longer). The top half now has flesh-like horns. My guess is "Ultimecia" is the top half of Hyne, who has junctioned an older sorceress Rinoa (who has accumulated all of the sorceresses powers up to this point). The human Ultimecia we see is a fully integrated Rinoa+Ultimecia. The character designs of final Ultimecia, theoretical Ultimecia+Rinoa (the human form we see) and Rinoa clearly depicts this. Final Ultimecia has skeletal/black wings, Rinoa has white feathered wins. Ultimecia + Rinoa = black feathered wings. The apocalypse spell clue in Dissidia NT is a really key hint too. This fits with the Hyne lore as Hyne wants to destroy humans - Hyne gave humans existence - and now he wants to deny their existence (Ultimecia literally says "All existence denied", and the way Ultimecia talks about pesky SeeDs is similar to how Hyne is described to view humans, originally obedient but rebelled and became disobedient etc.)

The foil between the two is undeniable, they use the same sorceress weapon, their colors of her blouse dodgerblue and ultis suit is crimson , all the foreshadowing of freezing time

...if you change the name of squalls ring, when ultimecia summons the most powerful gf, the name of that gf will be what you changed squalls rings name to be...this proves that greiver is squalls ring...

Great video, fantastic

Griver.. is the answer for you all the questions

Final ultimecia looks like anima too

The sorceress doesn’t need no man that way, that is why she is so angry

6:26 this emotion gave me goosebumps

Thank you everybody for supporting this vid by giving it a view and a like. Like seriously, its means a great amount to me because I have wanted to get back to making REAL videos for over a year now. I should have made the video in the direction of Rinoa being junctioned to Ultimecia.. Anyways thanks guys

I still believe Artimissia (Ultimecia) IS Rinoa. It makes the former reason for time compression more logical... I believe Rinoa having Edea and Adel's powers made her immortal or slow to age compared to the others... Thus, when squall and their friends died from old age or other circumstances, Rinoa wud want to bring back time --- that is her original goal. But she becomes corrupted in trying to do the time loop. And as she gets corrupted, she forgets her actual reason but only have fragments of her memory, like SeeD, time, alone... et cetera. She was able to go back in time though but since she forgot her actual goal, she gave her power to Edea sensing she is important for her supposed-to-be goal... which is being with Squall and their friends. and, just for fun, i also think that Artimissia emphasing the 'K' in her speech is because of the name of s-Q-uall. Squall's name has a hard K sound.

I have another question in my head... how many sorceresses are there At the same time? We know that a lot of females cn accept the powers of a dieing sorceress... edea gave her Power to rinoa, but we know, that edea was a sorceress even before the dieing ultimicia showed up in the orphanage. Edea became a sorceress by the age of 5 so when Adel ruled in Esthar... and she had her powers only given up to rinoa after being defeated in the lunatic Pandora. Did hyne gave his power to more than one Person? And did the multiple sorceresses we fight in the time compression maybe tell a bigger Story? Always two in the past, but morphing into one and becoming a monster? Maybe rinoa isn't ultimicia... but she is the beginning of a dark future with where all of the known sorceresses become one. All of their powers in one Body.

I think people forget in order for time compression to exist. Ellone had to send Rinoa,Ultimecia, and Adel to the future. And Ellone brought back just Rinoa in Lunatic Pandora. So yes Rinoa’s magic was junctioned to Ultimecia. But,Ultimecia’s special ability as a sorceress just by default is bending time and space and materializing things out of thin air (i.e. her guardians and the fact you can draw GF’s from them) It’s fair to assume the faceless Ultimecia is another puppet. But, I love these theories.

Ultimecia learned of Griever by taking control of Rinoa

I have played this game over 20 years I can assure everyone Rinoa absolutely is Ultimecia. The beginning cut scene shows Rinoa waiting in the fields for Squall and is clearly already a Sorceress. Alone the alone part is important as Edea tells Squall Ultimecia must miss love. She returns to the location the promise was made and awaites his destined arrival to fullfill the promise Squall made Rinoa on the Ragnarok. That promise was to stop her if she ever turned into an evil Sorceress. Griever's name serves as representation of this. Her grief for Squall is what gives life to Griever.

I'll just spit these thoughts out as I watch this. Ryenoa? Ultimaycia? Apocalypse was a drawable spell and still in the game's code to be used in regular battle but, it was scrapped, if you check the debug features. The Griever/Knight theory is fun to entertain. Just like Edea and Seifer. So, I'll shoot this at ya...Ultimecia wants to compress time, history repeats itself right? You remember the temple of the ancients in ff7, when every time you solve a puzzle, temple actually shrinks, with you inside it? Try to look at every time Ultimecia phase shifts to a different locations. I like to think that you aren't moving in time, but shrinking with it until reality collapses. Big bang! Then the process starts over like one giant breath. What do you think?

As much as Square denied it, everything kinda hold water. I think if they actually use the theory for a future remake, it'd be mind-blowing. Probably the most tragic and twisted story of FF series.

to cement this 'now i believed what Kitase said. Rinoa and Ultimcia are not the same person, just got realized it was ultimecia inside renoa's body. it's like it her but not and ultimacia just using rinoa's resources and skill... MAN ill been searching for answers and your theory should be on TOP!!!

Ultimecia Drew griever from squall's brain

Gave this a like just for the new presentation on old material. I still like the theory that Rinoa and Ultimecia are the same person (even though they've been stated repeatedly not to be by Kitase himself.) It's just one of those things.

you are correct, my dood. Rinoa IS Ultimecia/Artemisa. You just added another proof. And of course they are not the same person. If you _truly love_ someone and then you want to kill that person, you can consider yourself two different people. Leaving the dissidia games aside, what FF8 made was a story that is right in the middle of whatever the player wants it to be. Rinoa is Ultimecia and also she isn't. It could be either one. It's right in the fuckn middle. That's an amazing thing to achieve when creating a story for a videogame. And maybe that even wasn't the original intention when they were making the game, but that is the way it came out. Now, the Dissidia games lets you "see" a bit more clear. you don't need no proof to know tho. you can call Intuition a "magical ability" if you want, but when you are in that last battle of the game and that Lion summon shows up and has the same name of your ring, then you should _know_ . you need to use "magic" to know whats going on in this game. It doesn't matter how many solid proofs you might show, some people just refuse to see and denies that Ultimecia is Rinoa from the future. And that's a good thing. They want to believe in happy endings. whoever thinks that Rinoa being Ultimecia is just a "theory" are the people good at heart. people that in their very essence are nice human beings. this world needs more poeple like that, I think. No one needs to know that Rinoa is Ultimecia. No one needs to know that the bitch went crazy and tried to kill her one true love.🤣

Or, what if the dangling body is Rinoas from a timeline in which Adel defeated the team, since time was compressed.

Kinda under explained but, great for a short video

It's cool but it's way too clearly Ulti visually, the hair is exactly her hair but not in horns. If you look closely she even has her tattoo's and makeup. I'm rolling with Rinoamecia til I'm dead tho.

Griever's name itself tells you what he is about, grieving. Squall died, Rinoa grieved. But you can name Griever so I don't know.

Umm...... looking it as a different perspective What if what you pointed out is true? And what if what the developers and creators are saying is true. that "FF Producer: FF8 Rinoa is not Ultimecia." Ultimecia also knows Squall summon name etc Rinoa also knows Apocalypse. You also point out that Ultimecia draws from the lower body, why is she drawing from herself? And Utlimecia conjoining [to] Rinoa. Sherlock Holmes: "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." Also again what the producer and developer said has to be TRUTH [ Rinoa is not Ultimecia. ] Then that means Rinoa is her own person Ultimecia is her own person The Third and Final form of Final Fantasy VIII boss is the answer TWO BODIES = Two Separate People = Rinoa is not Ultimecia but they are conjunction together Perhaps Ultimecia is a being that posses beings, humans or Guardian Force / Creatures. From wiki - After Griever has been defeated, Ultimecia junctions herself to Griever - While possessing Edea So therefore Griever is Griever Edea is Edea Case of Adel from Wiki - Seifer kidnaps Rinoa and presents her to the possessed Adel, who junctions Rinoa to increase her powers. I read that because of Ultimecia messing with time, perhaps there is a different timeline or alternative Rinoa. This Rinoa got into depression after losing Squall either at the End of Disc 1 or that Squall truly died in the Ending of Disc 4 instead of coming back to life. So fan theory is Rinoa's depression grew into a darkness that leads to her becoming Ultimecia. But Maybe all the Fan Theories for [ Rinoa = Ultimecia] the links are true, your theories are true But your wording of the case is not true. Rinoa is NOT Ultimecia. But (a) Rinoa could be ( could of been ) a potential victim of Ultimecia's possession or junctioning. This makes it that Ultimecia = Ultimecia Rinoa = Rinoa Ultimecia Is NOT Rinoa And to interupt those statements, let's look at the Final Boss. What we see in the first form is Ultimecia posessing Rinoa fighting us Second Form is Ultimecia possessing Rinoa junctioning themselves to Griever Third Form is Upper half - Ultimecia TRUE FORM, she is a faceless being Lower half attached to her is Alternative Rinoa / Fallen Rinoa / Future Dark timeline Rinoa Or look at a different series / case BABY Vegeta from Dragonball GT Baby is Baby Vegeta is Vegeta Baby Vegeta is Baby possessing/took control of Vegeta But the two are different entities. So let's call Final Fantasy Last Bosses 'Ultimeciaed Rinoa' from now on? Have ANYONE ever ask the Producers or Developers 'Is the Ultimecia we see Ultimecia true form?' or the question Ís RInoa or a Rinoa a victim of Ultimecia possesion / junction like Edea and Griever have been?' Cause the Producers and or Developers have been asked 'Is Rinoa = Ultimecia?' To which because this statement is false They can easily dismiss / correct them by saying 'No.' What they didn't do perhaps is correct or clarify what or who is Ultimecia I hope that makes sense?

DAE squall is dead?

Say rhinoa one time... I dare you..

What if she is Selphie, drawing from rinoa. In the game it is hinted that she is a sorceress. She can even use magic like rinoa as a limit break, and even go as far as to use "The End", showing the field. Can't remember cuz she had a GF that she forgot, and we didn't get to know what it was. Fun 🤔🤗 Also Eden might be a good sorceress / GF. Each sorceress ends up transforming the longer they have the power. Look at the worm one 🪱.

FF is my favorite franchise since 1999 when I rented this game from Blockbuster. I played all the games , and I love them all, but I must admit this game was very flawed. Fan theories like this one, and the Squall is dead after disk 1 theory, made me enjoy this game a thousand times more. Thanks for sharing this video, I really love this theory.

It's pronounced renoah not righnoa

This is no longer a theory but a hidden fact that Square vehemently denies. Squall DissidiaNT: "I'm only here to fulfill a promise I made" UltimeciaNT: (makes exact same hand gesture as Rinoa when she first asked Squall) "Shall we dance?"

The dangling body is actually moving and screaming - if you use scan and zoom into the face when you battle the body - you will see especially when Ultemecia is disintegrating the head of the body is shrieking in terror - also ofc you can Draw Apocalypse from Ultemecia - and you can't mix and match games bro :) keep FF8 in FF8 - witches in FF8 universe can junction to each other/summons if one is stronger than the other

The creator has said Rinoa isn't Ultimecia.

Butchered rinoas name