Robert's "No Cog" Mod Review

No video

Robert's "No Cog" Mod Review

Рет қаралды 2,023

Get Your Game On

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 55

@bordernova_border_collies 6 ай бұрын

Don’t forget the mod is NOT suitable for the newest platforms.

@GYGOtv 6 ай бұрын

Yep that seems to be the case. I obviously had no way to test this since mine is an older unit but I bet someone could make it work since the "Robert's Mod" Motors do have a shaft sticking out the back. Would love to hear if someone out there got that to work.

@jeffschneider9516 6 ай бұрын

BTW, If you change "step" in SMC3 you can change values such as Kp by 1, 10, etc. per click instead of clicking hundreds of times.

@GYGOtv 6 ай бұрын

O sure now you tell me :) Thanks for the tip, really appreciate that and hope it helps other folks doing the mod.

@farmertrueVR 6 ай бұрын

Fantastic video as always! Watching the side by side comparison made me want to jump into one of these bad boy DOF Reality Motion Platforms! Awesome that you are giving away three of these to the community. That is very kind of you.

@GYGOtv 6 ай бұрын

I don't think I'll ever want to use them again so I'd rather someone else enjoy them vs. them sitting in my closet or I sell them for a few hundred dollars. I really appreciate my viewers and its a small thing I can do to help this community that has given me so much. Plus I learned that from you :) I remember you gave me a nice VR game one time on your channel and I still enjoy it! Whenever you are ready to take the plunge, let me know and I'll help you through getting some motion for yourself... it really is amazing. Thanks for watching my friend, I do want to try and join you for a game night sometime soon... I've been trying for tonight but not sure I'm going to be able to make that happen, but who knows. Hope you have a great livestream either way.

@hoopdaboop 4 ай бұрын

A big super thanks from me for the give away of these motors and taking the time and effert to send them to the uk

@GYGOtv 4 ай бұрын

You are very welcome! Glad they made it all the way across the pond in one piece! Can't wait to see what you do with them, and thanks for the Super Thanks donation!

@bigbangerz5856 6 ай бұрын

Nice one Mark, great coverage of a very important topic now Flight Sims are in the picture for these motion platforms. DOF Reality initially had a poor reaction to a legitimate issue imho but if they can deliver on improvements then people will appreciate that in the long run. Personally I think helicopter flight is the right test for comparison if you get a chance before dismantling the mod…

@GYGOtv 6 ай бұрын

O' I've been flying the Dune Ornithopter and it is a blast. The motion is good, I just hate how loud the motors are. That is far more immersion breaking to me than the little cogging ever was. I agree the DOF response could have been better but I see them as having tried various things to fix it... that was why they went to the SFU, then the higher resolution sensors, etc. I just don't think their messaging matched what their efforts were and that is unfortunate. Hopefully they are on the right track now though. Thanks for the comment!

@bakzetary3145 6 ай бұрын

Less punch = Less maximum torque! So easy to explain dude! Those new motors are smaller, (Typically means less HP and torque IF similar winding designs are employed.) AND with the added gearboxes that increase speed output with a proportional loss in motor torque; PLUS add in additional mechanical losses from the gearing itself= No equal to the original motors! Plus the gearing are likely the cause of the majority of the whine you hear too and they will wear out at a much greater rate than the original stand-alone motors! Furthermore; the smaller/lower speed motors have more magnetic poles around the 360 degree axis which breaks the torque pulses into smaller radian per pulse reducing the perceived cogging to smaller increments. Also the reduced torque smooths out the cog making it less previable to the user too. I would be willing to bet if the manufacturer added "S-Curve" ramping to both the acceleration and deacceleration time profiles plus add it to the starting torque profiles, the cogging would be eliminated via software adjustments! (Done this type of adjustments to thousands of industrial machines and people movers for the last 30 years!) Not sure what firmware additions they can add to the customer software or at the Arduino axis controller itself to achieve this type of adjustable settings. The Arduino controller is a great low cost axis controller but has tons of limitations compared to conventional industrial solutions that frankly are too expensive to consider for this market. In conclusion: This motor alternative is just a bad idea all around especially for long term reliability! (Do some heat checks on these motors and gearing after 1 hour of dogfighting in a WWII aircraft and you will see what I mean.) Like you said, a commercial pilot simmer would be fine as long a you can stand the gearbox whine from time to time and maybe worn out gearing some time down the line.

@GYGOtv 6 ай бұрын

WOW, thanks for all the details there. Your comment is WAY past my pay grade :) Appreciate the detailed explanation, it was my understanding that the Torque was similar with these motors but again I'm just going by what I could find online. I actually almost followed most of what you said and would actually appreciate talking to you more about this as I want to do a separate video on what causes the "cogging" in the first place. I personally think the torque ripple (I think that was what I heard it referred to in the videos I analyzed) is a major issue for this and I hadn't thought about having more poles in this motor but that certainly makes sense. Anyway thank you again for such a detailed comment and if you don't mind I might bend you ear on more of this stuff later.

@bakzetary3145 6 ай бұрын

My pleasure, always available sir! (Retired early from industrial automation and robotics to take care of my ailing mother out in the rural mountains vs a retirement home.) Some day I'll have a DOF unit but still working on updating other components first on my newly fixed budget. (Considered making one myself but more work than I have time for these days. Plus I am not a software/coder guy and would need help on that anyways.) Torque ripple is another phenomena usually created by the DC Drive controllers and their specific type solid state device switching characteristics and settings. (Another possible issue here but in my world adjustable to smooth this out and be non consequential. I would guess the DOF DC motor controllers has very limited adjustability too.)@@GYGOtv

@rnlcomp 6 ай бұрын

Actually the gear motors are more powerful than the originals including the P motors, 10kg torque. The issue with any lack of response can be tuned out with SRS as has always been the case. Having to change mutilple profiles is a PITA but it is what it is. I completely understand how someone with a ton of profiles already saved would shy away. Longevity is an unknown but the gears are solid steel so they should last a long time. As far as the added sound, yeah that can be an issue if you're running more than 2 or 3 of these motors. I designed this mod for the H3. These particular import motors, like the originals, are all made in China, no surprise there. It's the 4.25:1 gear ratio built in to the motors that multiplies torque.

@bakzetary3145 6 ай бұрын

There is no way those smaller motors have more output torque than the originals, period. (I could go on in great detail to explain why but a waste of time at this point.) By the way, where did you get the rating? From the manufacturer ONLY I would guess? Does that include the attached gear-box? Most these foreign motors, especially from China are grossly overrated from reality, 50-100% greater than reality to be frank! If it doesn't have a UL/ETL EASA rating label, the data you're getting from the manufacturer is complete fiction! Steel gears is a bare minimum, but hardened surfaces would of been better also with helical bevels. These boxes whine like they are cheap-straight cut gears right out of China!!! @@rnlcomp

@rnlcomp 6 ай бұрын

Yes actually they can and it's due to the 4.25:1 ratio the gear boxes inside the motor. Dof's Chinese produced motors are nothing special, just regular old 24v dc motors. You may know a lot about motors and such but you obviously know nothing about these specific motors or how size don't mean squat anymore. No I'm not Chinese nor am I affiliated with the company that sells the motors. If you doubt what I say, give the mod a try for yourself. The "Less punch" description is misleading. I would call it lag. More like the delay you get when you plant your foot on a turbo charged car as opposed to a non turbo car. However that can be tuned out for every vehicle profile. That is where people would be basically back at square/day 1, like they just got their rig and had done no tuning at all. @@bakzetary3145

@jeffschneider9516 6 ай бұрын

Perfect timing on this video. I have a early 2020 era H6 and some of the motors need to be replaced. DOF hasn't been very helpful due to it being an older iteration of the platform. Hopefully these motors will work with the older power boxes as well.

@GYGOtv 6 ай бұрын

Just as long as you can handle the noise... they are LOUD! Thanks for watching and the comment.

@knowyourjoe8826 6 ай бұрын

Great content loaded with usefull information! Also I just wanted to say, Thanks Mark and Darrell for all y'all do for this community. The input and advise is solid and the consistent dedication to assist those seeking such information is unwavering. I should hope that those finding this channel realize this and appreciate it. Thanks for all you do.

@GYGOtv 6 ай бұрын

Thank you for watching, appreciate comments like this and viewers like you Joe!

@pchow6829 8 сағат бұрын

Will you be doing a review on the new No cog motor upgrade from DOF? I'm holding off on ordering until I hear your thoughts on it. Thank you.

@GYGOtv 4 сағат бұрын

Thanks for trusting my opinion! I am editing the announcement video now... should be up by tomorrow sometime if all goes well. Don't forget we have our usual discount code that will also be in the video. Appreciate your support!

@hoopdaboop 4 ай бұрын

Thanks

@steeltribe3967 2 ай бұрын

Great video, really appreciated. I have a H3 and to be candid have been dissapointed, mostly due to this issue which I had no idea how to describe or fix. I play DCS mostly, but do a lot of A2G and when trying to get the pipper on a target the cogging is very noticeable. It feels like you make a tiny movement and nothing happens then another and all of a sudden the platform lurches. In dogfights or car racing I didn't feel it as the movements are more pronounced, but it is a real immersion killer on fine movements. Mostly this is for roll and pitch so I was wondering if you could just replace those two motors? I also just read another comment about it not being suitable for the 'newest' platforms, how do I know which one I have? I ordered mine in late August 2023.

@GYGOtv 2 ай бұрын

Thanks for the comment, appreciate you watching. So yes you only need to mod the main motors, yaw doesn't need it. The way you tell if your H3 is old enough is see where the encoder (sensor) is mounted to H3. If it is on the side of the gearbox you can do this mod (you can see it on the thumbnail for the linked video, you can see the black cord running to it... kzfaq.info/get/bejne/jMpllKafqay2iX0.htmlsi=ldRkvUxuI_cruk0B ) If however the sensor is mounted to the back of the motor then you can not use this mod. If that is the case, all is not lost... You can try adding a transducer (like a butt kicker) to "mask" the Cogging. This works for me and greatly reduces that studder feeling when I play DCS. Hope this helps, let me know if you have any other questions.

@steeltribe3967 Ай бұрын

@@GYGOtv Thanks. Setup a couple of Dayton Audio drivers and a Knobsound mini amp with RKApp SimHaptic and it works a treat. I'll get the upgrade from DOF hopwfully in the future but this is a great disctaction. Thanks again.

@GYGOtv Ай бұрын

@@steeltribe3967 No problem... yes any transducer should work to hide the cogging, at least for me. We should hopefully see something from DOF before the end of the year.

@taveston80 6 ай бұрын

Thanks for the great video Mark! Does this mod work for the latest DOF versions as I saw a comment on the FB group that this is for the older sensor based variants only?

@GYGOtv 6 ай бұрын

I'm not sure... it does have the shafts that come out the back of these motors but since I don't have a new version I had no way to test it. I'd imagine if you can get the new digital encoders to mount to the back it should work but I really am just guessing there. Wish I had a better answer.

@motelghost477 6 ай бұрын

I'm planning to buy a DOF Reality H3 motion rig soon, thank you for the discount code.

@GYGOtv 6 ай бұрын

Thank you for using it, and I hope you enjoy your H3 as much as I've enjoyed my H6. They really are amazing experiences!

@richardPalmisano 6 ай бұрын

Awesome video bro but I’m going to do like you and wait for Dof Reality to come up with a solution but that is a very generous offer that you’re doing thank you for that.

@GYGOtv 6 ай бұрын

I'm happy to try and help some others who might not be able to afford the mod but really could use it. I just wish I could do more than 3 but that is all the motors I have unfortunately. It's gonna be tough to pick out of all the submissions I've already been getting. Thanks as always for watching and the comment richard!

@johnwjensen 6 ай бұрын

I don't think you mentioned in your video that this mod is only available to the older models and not the new models that have rear encoders and brakes.

@GYGOtv 6 ай бұрын

Can you confirm that? These motors do have the shaft out the back so I'd guess you could get them to work with the new encoders, but I am just guessing as I had no way to test it since my rig is older. Honestly I'd recommend everyone wait to see what DOF comes out with anyways. Thanks for the comment.

@ShockAndYaw 6 ай бұрын

As far as I know nobody's figured out or published instructions on how to do this with the newest encoder versions.

@seattime4075 6 ай бұрын

Yep, your offsetting response/noise for smoothness with the higher ratio gearbox.

@GYGOtv 6 ай бұрын

LOL but I want both :) I guess we will see what DOF comes up with. Thanks for the view and the comment!

@seattime4075 6 ай бұрын

You can have both, but unfortunately it will cost you (powerfull/fast AC servo motors) :-). @@GYGOtv

@FrancoisDaniels 5 ай бұрын

I am planning on purchasing a P3 or P2 motion platform. Did DOF Reality give any hints as to what their proposed solution may be? I would rather hold off on purchasing if they are looking to release a new version of the platform that reduces the impact of cogging. I only fly GA, so I am a little worried about the experience I will have with the current platform. Both you and Steve (VRFlightSimGuy) seem to say that it is not as bad as people make it out to be, but then other regular people of the MSFS forum complain saying it is the worst immersion breaker. Any insights would be appreciated!

@GYGOtv 5 ай бұрын

Hey Thanks for the question. SO first off you don't need a P-Series unless you are going to run it in a commercial environment so save your money there (plus we have a 5% discount code in this video that should help as well.) In my opinion the "cogging" is way overblown in the community but I can understand it bothering some. It only happens when you are in very slow turns but it is there. It doesn't bother me because I have a Buttkicker transducer that adds engine/prop vibration to the rig and that pretty much masks the cogging effect so I hardly notice it. BUT if you want to wait, they say they are working on a fix, Steve has some new shafts but I don't think they will be enough to totally remove the cogging IMO. I think we will need new motors to be honest, and I bet DOF Reality will try everything else before they do that. I think some more powerful motors with helical cut gears (to reduce the noise) will end up being the answer, unless they can come up with a way to implement stepper motors at a reasonable price. Another option you could consider would be a PT Actuator style rig, it will be super smooth but will probably cost you about twice as much, you don't get as much movement out of it but the GREAT thing about going that route is you will get Heave which is awesome when you land... you feel the plane hit the runway, which I love. Hope that helps, please let me know if you have any other questions.

@FrancoisDaniels 5 ай бұрын

Thanks for the quick, detailed reply! The reason that I am leaning towards the P-Series is because I am a fatty, lol. I weigh 260lbs, plus I need to add a seat, my Bruner CLS, rudder pedals, radios, TPM, potentially side mouse my HOTAS, etc. Also it sounds like the motors will have a longer life, and I very much appreciate longevity in my products. Yeah I saw the discount code, super appreciative of that one :) If the subtle vibration of a Buttkicker is able to mask the "cogging" then it really doesn't sound like a major issue to me! Thanks for the great videos, and interviews, looking forward to the next one. @@GYGOtv

@GYGOtv 5 ай бұрын

@@FrancoisDanielsYou still don't need the P-Series even with all that weight. I was 254 when I got my platform and that was with the old gearboxes. The new SFU's can handle a lot more weight than the old ones so save your money... or better yet upgrade to a H6! Hope that helps.

@FrancoisDaniels 5 ай бұрын

Makes sense, thanks!@@GYGOtv

@torahlife4231 5 ай бұрын

I purchased all of the parts for the mod and now realize it does not work with the new polycarbonate SFU gearboxes. Anybody need some parts? Does Robert offer an alternate mounting system?

@GYGOtv 5 ай бұрын

Sorry to hear that, I'm not sure about using the Mod on newer rigs since I have an older system. You'd have to ask Robert about different mounts, but I doubt it since he did it for him older H3. I'd recommend asking on the DOF Motion Builder's Facebook Group for more advice, there are lots of folks on there (including Robert) who know a lot more about this stuff than I do. Thanks for the comment, I did Pin a comment about it not working on new systems so thank you for the update as well. P.S. I think DOF is working on solution that might work better for those with the newer systems... time will tell.

@OperatorPuski 6 ай бұрын

What is Cogging? Never heard of this

@GYGOtv 6 ай бұрын

It's becoming quite the hot topic, and a little overblown IMO. Basically it is a starting and stopping of the motors in really slow movements like General Aviation pilots do. For everyone else it isn't really noticeable. You can see it in the side-by-side video, I circle it to show what it looks like. I'm going to try and do a dedicated video explaining it more so stay tuned. Thanks for the question.

@ricardograde5134 5 ай бұрын

Hello, do you think a dumper could help? I have an H3.

@GYGOtv 5 ай бұрын

Hi richarograde, what is a dumper? I'm not familiar with them. Depending what it is I doubt it, seems like the original motors just run into torque ripple when they move slow.

@ricardograde5134 5 ай бұрын

@@GYGOtv ⁠So sorry is “DAMPER”, no dumper… 😵‍💫😵‍💫 Yes, I greed with you, the problem are the number of magnets inside the motors, they are few, so every time the motor turn is a jump form one magnet to the other! I am very very disappointed with DOF REALITY. What a waste of money… no airplane fly like this. GA and forget about gliders! 🙁 Just thinking if a couple of DAMPERS could not mitigate this behavior of the motors. Like in the old RIGS. I fly in VR (Pimax Cristal), and in some situations the imagine is jumping because of the Jerkiness of the RIG. What a mess…..!!! I am exchanging emails with DOF Reality (Giorgio)… and is asking me to send to him the telemetry. Like he didn’t know the problem are the motors of the RIG. Very very disappointed! You didn’t know about this “COG” to? In practice you did influence me in buying this thing!!! 🙁

@geraldstraney6181 Ай бұрын

This does not work with encoder motors.

@GYGOtv Ай бұрын

Correct, as pinned below not suitable for newest platforms (which have the encoder motors). Not worth it anyway unless you just do GA aviation. DOF Realities new motor design will fix this and still give you great performance so wait until it comes out and everything should be great.