"No" - Rogal Dorn

We can't forget about the time he held off the the god of blood and war by talking about economics.

Rogal Dorn will be armed with the Emperor's lightning claw when he returns I assure you.

Your dad had cool metaphors, my dad said “pull my finger”

Peter turbo: breaks when his sister calls him out for being a btch Dorn: bends and adapts with his steel resolve.

Dorn is definitely the kind of dude who 100% all his quests in game 😂

Dorn is the epitome of the "indomitable human spirit" meme

First minute in, and I see my oldest IF artwork slowly sliding before my eyes 😅 Old as it is, love that it still shows up here and there!

“I am fortifying this position”-Rogal Dorn

Lets be honest, we all got a warm toasty feeling when Arthur mentioned Kor Phaeron going feet first into a wood chipper. Ahhhhhhh.....like slipping into a warm bath.

I actually like that. "Do not use steel when iron will suffice". I'm getting older, reaching that dreaded 4-0 in a couple years, and I can see the wisdom in that. You're right, on the surface it's "work smarter, not harder", "don't overcomplicate the solution". But I don't think it means that. You're right that Rogal had more steel in him than iron, he was flexible in his thinking and tactics where they called for it. But he had an iron core to him, to his beliefs. Iron may not bend, and it will appear brittle. But make it right, solid, and hold firm to yourself. And the world can wreck itself trying to break you. Edit: Or i'm just talking out my ass. Anyways, good stuff Maynard.

steel bends, iron breaks is now my new favorite quotes

It’s early in the video, so forgive me if you mention it, but Baldemort’s three parter on Rogal Dorn and “The Longest Second” is absolutely masterful storytelling.

I always wanted to like Rogal Dorn but never could until I heard the audio about him rejecting Khorn for hundreds of years. That was very well written and gave a deeper insight into his character that I had never gotten before.

Really interesting analysis of Dorn being more flexible than I thought, and Perturabo is less than I thought! Really well stated!

I mean Dorn didn't really go missing Peter Turbo just challenged him to a game of dawn of war... they are still on their first match... 9000 years later

"That is because the Black Templars are completley fucking insane" Dorn on his sons.

In short Dorn will do what he needs to in creative fashion.

What makes some people call Dorn boring is the same reasons he is compelling as a character. Picture the word collapsing around you your facing unstoppable tides of unknown horror that is seemingly unstoppable most people in such a situation would panic mentally break down weep in Terror then you see a man as calm as ice a will of iron he is your rock the only the only who can lead you through the darkness withstand the pressure and either guide you through it or make the last moments manageable that is Rogal Dorn Stone incarnate the will to stare into the dark uncaring void and never blink Iron will bend but stone is indomitable it can weather any hit take any kind of punishment it may chip away it may break but only in the end when it breaks it’s be issue the force against it out in all its strength to crack it open

”I’d be hard pressed to find anyone who dislikes Dorn” Me: Hydra Dominatus…..

Remember kids, if someone tells you Dorn and Girlyman are boring, they haven't read the books.

Rogal's struggle in the End and the Death helped me recontextualize my experience with my internal struggles - I will makes plans, one will work, I will break free.

My favorite part is when he said “I’m Rogal Dorn” and then he dorned all over the place

The moment I saw the title, my brain went “Iron breaks, steel bends” and I knew for a fact that the Dorn video would actually be about Perturabo.

Kitten: Doooorn! What are you doing?! Dorn: I am fortifying this position. Kitten: WHY?!? Dorn:The best offence is a good defence. Kitten: Aw, for Terra's sake...

I loved this dude. He defeated Khorne by reading the Geneva convention. He defeated a chao's God ideology

Another extremely interesting example of how Dorn was able to pivot and adapt was when he was in the midst of an argument with Alpharius (or Omegon) in the aftermath of a compliance campaign. When they seem at an impasse in terms of "open warfare" vs "subterfuge" during the argument, Dorn actually pivots the conversation and criticizes the Alpha Legion's black ops approach during the campaign via criteria that Alpharius himself would value.

People always talking about how if Dorn returns he should have the Emperor’s Claw. I disagree, the claw is meant more for someone who is precise and quick. Dorn is a tool a weapon, he should have the Emperor’s Bolter.

I love these videos, man. Can't wait for Angron and Magnus.

Royal Dorn keeping and using his grandfathers cloak as a safety blanket is always just so damn heart warming. Like just a great fact to know about the guy.

Dorn and perty are so similar except for the one quality that perturabo was never able to cultivate: humility. Everything perty does is built around the idea that th previous thing being right and unquestioning. The idea of admiting he was wrong or possibly mistaken would break any sense of identity and self esteem that he built up. Meanwhile dorn is more then able to admit he was wrong, and learn as a person from it. Also, calling it now: Dorn will be coming back as a dreadnaught to counter perty being a giant tank daemon primarch.

Honestly if Dorn comes back I think they would have to really balance out the setting again. I mean the imperium has: Blueberry Boy to do the logistics/ planning Mr. Lion for the attack Lord ADornable for the defense

Stuff like this is why I love Dorn. He’s not a complex character, but his personality and philosophy are each unique and well written. It’s also why I think it’s dumb people just say “Perty is great Dorn sucks”. Both are good, and as this video states they exist as two sides of the same coin. The only difference is that Dorn understands the values in making mistakes and learning. Perturabo doomed himself constantly trying to avoid making mistakes altogether.

I recently finished Perturabo's primarch novel "The Hammer of Olympia" and knew this is where you were going with this video when I saw the title. Spoilers ahead: To my mind, the central metaphor of Perty's novel revolves around the "Iron within. Iron without" motto of the IVth Legion. Barabas Dantioch is defeated when the hrud rust away his iron without. For Perturabo, however, there is a sentence in Chapter Two which foreshadows his fate: "Poorly forged iron might shatter when hit by a precise blow." The rebellion of Olympia is the blow that shatters Perturabo's iron within. As someone who sees a lot of himself in Perturabo, I sometimes wonder if being a Dorn isn't preferable.

Given where Abbadon and Vashtorr went, I think Jaghatai is more likely to return next.

Ok, ive leeched off of your videos long enough. Had to become a full member so i can help support ya

Really enjoyed the character evolution of Rogal in the Siege of Terra and the End and the Death series. So cool.

I think an example of Perturabo's inability to bend when needing to is his isssues with communication. He was used to not expressing his needs and choosing to act at the whims of what was needed by those who were meant to support him (with the exception of his sister). He never complained about what he wanted to do in life and just got the job done, and that didn't change when the Emperor of Mankind found and recruited him. He was able to communicate what he wanted to do rather than just go about what his father commanded, but he didn't. Perturabo just did what he was used to and did whatever job he was given without any complaint, until, like Iron, he was eventually broken by this the burden he put on his back to carry.

Dorn is, and always will be my favorite primarch.

Don't forget, Dorn offered the Phalanx to the Emporer!

I find him to be to be quite an interesting character, I really enjoyed him in the end and death, and while he doesn't blow your socks off with the dynamism of his unpredictable personality, I always found his autistic stolidness even in the most extreme circumstances endearing.

If one compares Dorn and perturabo to tools, Dorn is a steel blade cutting to the heart of the matter, enough strength to bend and enough hardness to stay true. Perty is a cast iron frying pan, heavy and extremely hard but also brittle in equal measure. He is also kind of a blunt instrument.

I love Rogal Dorn and I would love to see him return to the setting and be given something more to do than protect Terra.

Alpharius not liking Dorn because he never lies is so freaking funny

You’ve verbalised what I could not. Great character study.

"Corgis are funny, they have small legs" - Rogal Dorn

It's difficult for me to articulate why Dorn became my favorite Primarch. This was before the SoT and the Khan and Sanguinius arrived with their Legions but there was this small window of time right after the Dropsite Massacre where RD and the 7th truly believed that they were the last men standing between the Imperium and Horus and I thought that there was something incredibly endearing about that. The last loyal men vs all the darkness of the galaxy. Very noblebright. The very reason space marines are so cool.

He is my favorite primarch for those reasons and for his changing and ultimately sobering perspective as the Heresy goes on. When it kicks off, Dorn has to come to terms with the reality of his art that is the Imperial Palace. Ultimately it must be torn down to serve in a war for survival that he and his brothers ultimately brought upon countless human and xenos empires alike. Its also just him suffering through having to be the stoic face of defiance against Horus's onslaught and constantly trying to deal with the stress and mental fatigue of an entire Imperium looking to him in their most dire hour. And in what he believe to be his failure after Emps is thrown on the golden thrown, his mental break and where that leads him in the end just makes him one of the most fascinating primarchs to read about in my opinion. so yeah, fuck the iron warriors.

Fortifying this Position.

“ I am Rogal Dorn, defiant and unyielding”

"far off planet in another galaxy" 40k only wishes it could get out of its galaxy

Dorm seems to understand sunk time whereas Peter Turbo would get mad he wasted so much time and be petty.

My thoughts on Dorn for a long time were that he was kind of boring, Peter Turbo made him look like a punk, and he died to mooks like a bitch. Learning about his fight with Alpharius made me rethink him quite a bit but boy I hope he didn't actually get killed by generic unnamed chaos space marines. That would be such a disservice.

From a sales perspective, I think Leman will be the next Loyal Primarch to return. Mainly because there is currently only 1 "Primarch level" Character per codex right now. Abaddon being that for the main Chaos Marine codex. When Fulgrim returns, it will be in a whole new Emperors children codex that we know is coming. So if Dorn is next, they'd have to create a whole "Sons of Dorn" Codex including Imperial/Crimson Fists, Black Templars and others. Which would be cool, but I think less likely than just giving the Space Wolf codex its Primarch level Character first

Dorns coming back as a Black Templar. It's too good. It has to be what's happening

To utilize and adapt a quote from the game of thrones books (replacing the baratheon brothers names with three primarchs) "Rogal, he was true steel. Perturabo is iron, hard and brittle, he'll break before he bends. Fulgrim, that one, he is copper, shiny but not worth much."

A small quibble with your allegory. Pure iron is softer than steel and will bend but will stay deformed. Steel is far better at flexing and returning to its original shape. Cast iron is the really brittle stuff that will shatter. Your allegory still works, the problem comes from the terminology.

Dorn was not just born, he was built.

I am an Iron Warriors super-fan. My angry dark side relates to them and I feel they provide me with a healthy outlet for frustration and emotional pain that I carry around. As far as Dorn goes, I think he represents a stoic ideal, wisdom bound to martial honor. Who would truly stand in the way of that in the real world? Not many people I don't think. What I feel that he represents in the lore vs Perturabo is that Dorn is kind of like Mr Perfect. He and Guilliman both are expressions of well-adjusted behavior...maybe born out of privilege? Dorn demands we live up to a pretty high ideal, and if you're possessed of human flaws, then he looks down in you. He's got no time for poorly adjusted or maladaptive behavior. And I can see how an angry, poorly adjusted figure would resent what Dorn represents, particularly if Dorn gets attention for behavior you yourself have failed to live up to. Nobody likes a show-off or a preachy over-achiever. We couldn't all grow up the way he did or handle all of our business with that kind of poise and grace. Some of us are broken; and we don't fit in the Dorn scheme of things. But we should all want to be more like Dorn. Like Guilliman, he represents sanity and decency in a perverted universe.

“Never broken” - The Iron Cage begs to differ

Great example of Unc Dorn and Peterturbo

Real life blacksmith here, “Never use steel when iron will suffice” is an old smithing adage (I read something similar in a book published in the 1920s). Basically Steel is mechanically far superior for any application (except 1) but it’s far more expensive

Love your stuff man, its nice to see how fast you've grown within a year

I suspect the phrase Why use Steel when Iron will suffice probably dates back before Andrew Carnegie’s development of mass producing Steel. Prior to the late 1800s, Steel was an expensive process producing small amounts and thus were specialized as tools and weapons. Iron (and we’re talking wrought iron, cast iron is too brittle) on the other hand was cheaper and more readily available in large quantities. In a modern context it would be Why wear Gucci work boots when regular work boots will suffice.

I loved the video. i also love dorn and the fists in HH. the legion's character/flavor isn't as strong as "viking werewolves" or "vampire angels", so I thought Dorn and the fists were boring for a long time until I read about them in heresy novels. Now they're my main heresy army.

If Dorn returns , i can see Perturabo rejoining the setting out of spite (Would be great if they confirmed the Perty-Dreadnaught theory)

I personally like the idea of pertarobo coming back finally learning how to bend. It would actually be cool to see him and dorn meet and talk and Dorn realizing oh crap he’s better than me now.

The Steel and Iron analogue reminds of the one Donal Noye says to John Snow in ASOIAF "Robert was the true steel. Stannis is pure iron, black and hard and strong, yes, but brittle, the way iron gets. He'll break before he bends. And Renly, that one, he's copper, bright and shiny, pretty to look at but not worth all that much at the end of the day."

to me the organization of roboute, the singular focus of lionel and his tactical acumen, with rogals unyielding nature and ability to reinforce and build would make the imperium have a new age of expansion as opposed to the slow death it’s having right now

It should be mentioned that steel is heavier than iron. Due to the additional atoms in its alloy. In the olden days. The finest swords had steel edges and iron spines. This gave them a stiff leightweight core while retaining the flexible yet sharp edge.

I disagree on a few points. Dorn was "never broken" of course, he just lost a hand and nearly got his entire legion killed in the Iron Cage because he thought he knew better. He would have done his boys in if not for Gulliman bailing them out. Perturabo fell to his insecurities at first which led him decimating his world and joining the Heresy but he gained his confidence during the Heresy at the cost of his humanity and he became his own person, no longer caring about what others think. The turning point for Bo was roughing up Fulgrim and taking full command. From there he became a proper, competent and successful leader who only left Terra because his brothers were insane and he had enough. Dorn was prideful and as he was reaffirmed by everyone around him so also he became more and more stubborn and set in his ways. Just think how he treated Sigismund. The Iron Cage brought that castle of pride down hard. The path of these two are inversed, one gained his pride and confidence through adversity whilst the other built his false pride upon the praises of others and in turn had it crashing down in a rude wakeup call. When Dorn returns I suspect he'll be just as blunt and stoic, I mean that's his character, but he'll be a lot humbler. No one walks away from a defeat that almost has his entire legion killed because of his own hubris and pride. That probably left a mark other than the missing hand.

starting to love this channel.

5:30. The best way to put it for Brogal maybe is knowing even if he's functionally immortal. He might not be around forever, and that problem he solved would be best handled if his solution could last for as long as it reasonably could before breaking. 9:38 I mean, like Rogal Dorn. If your grandfather was a welder or builder, maybe he meant it literally. But then your dad took it as some profound statement.

For Dorn, forever.

Steel within. Steel without.

14:17 Stone erodes, it does yield to time, but it does not break, canyons are formed by erosion. So, using when Dorn found out about the Heresy, he did not believe it at first, but with increasing evidence, that worldview that Horus would never betray the Imperium changed and eroded, a canyon formed in his beliefs and he had to change with it. Not the best metaphor, but still falls into the iron vs steel metaphor in that steel is more flexible than iron that with just snap. That being said, I think both Dorn and Perterabo are my favorite Primarchs, so there is that too.

steel is just iron with trace amounts of carbon, so they weight or density is literally exactly the same. steel is the superior material, there is almost no field in which iron is better than steel. i think the meaning of that phrase is more like "do not overkill" or "dont waste more resources than are necessary" in this specific case, rogal went from "kill literally them all, cause they will rebel" to "okay, they will not rebel, no need more killing", altho i see this as simplistic, since if they go to an imperium planet or terra, they will be integrated with other humans and they are less likely to rebel just because of their relationship with those humans, not because they are few

Rogal is everything Perturabo COULD have been, had the circumstances been different. The Emperor should have given Pert more autonomy and creative initiatives. Say what you will about Perturabo, he was a genius. Emps utilized him improperly imo.

Something that needs speaking is that Perturabo's arc over the course of the heresy is very much about him learning to bend. Olympia is the start, but he keeps coming face to face with situations where he has to reconcile that his way is not always going to work, Phal is the second big wakeup call after Olympia, and it results in him both altering elements of the legion, implementing both the Iron Circle and the Black Oculus, and eventually leads him to Tallarn, where his primary motive is to acquire new knowledge with which to improve the legion, and when called out by Horus and given the demand to stand down, he acquiesces rather than driving in his heels like he might've in an earlier incarnation. Slaves to Darkness really covers the notion that he is changed, that he is 'unbending' only so far as he will do whatever is necessary for the good of his legion, and the completion of his objectives, but he will reject the more insidious forms of change, and the impending doom that the traitor primarchs find themselves in the grasp of, now that the chaos gods are courting them. Secondly, in regards to 'Never use steel when Iron will suffice"; It's not universally true that Iron is more brittle than steel, what is perhaps more true is that the properties of Iron are more general, while steel are typically very specific in their properties. Some steels are very hard, with incredible compression strength, but very brittle and inelastic. These are used in tools like drills, whereas more flexible steels might be used in other applications, such as in the creation of springs. Iron is much more moderate in it's properties, the statement that it is brittle is something of a half truth, soft irons bend easily in fact. The aphorism is more accurately speaking to the notion that one should not use a specialized tool for a job which is not needed, IE using a long range precision guided missile when any old dumb bomb dropped from a high place would have sufficed. An opposite aphorism might be "There's no kill like overkill."

Great video mate

WE HOLDIN THE PALACE WITH THIS ONE‼️ 🏰🍋🏰

13:50 Imagine if Perty heard of how the imperial fists were all wiped out so he just sends the ones he captured in stasis to Terra, but only after showing them Dorn’s corpse- possibly something he wants to bring back not to use as a weapon or anything. So now you have the imperial fists not made of their gene stock, facing 30K era imperial fists, and the Primaris marines made with the fists or their second hand gene stock. Talk about a identity crisis with the reveal that Perty wants Dorn back to spite the chaos gods a bit. ‘See now you can’t get rid of me!’ Also to just show how his sons live to Perty to Dorn. And then you have all of this chaos happening. Honestly if Perty found of the Lion and Guiliman i 100% would bet he would be tempted to send them loyalist Night Lords just to tie them all down in politics and PSTD while he did other stuff. If perty sides with Vastor, how fucked would the other chaos gods be- especially Slaanesh. Perty sees the shard of the sword that can summon the slaanesh god. Reforges the sword. Eldar: uh, no no no, thanks but what the fuck,

13:03 simple. Direct. Inspiring. Perfect.

I always enjoyed the difference in perspectives between Dawn and Perterabo on fortifications. Perty sees them as a challenge, a puzzle to solve and a final obstacle to break. Crush the fortress, win the war. Where Dawn sees fortifications as tools that give a temporary advantage while they last. He fully expects walls to fall eventually and plans for what happens next or what to do while they hold. Controlled anger vs stoic practicality.

late to the video, but the term “unyielding as stone” could be perceived in a way that compares him to being strong, yet malleable. Stone while very brittle, is also capable of being eroded and shaped by its environment, similarly to dorns long term acceptance of horaces betrayal.so even in that context, it still fits your message on dorn/perturabo as steel vs iron 13:14

NGL, I think the bit about the Iron Warriors being Iron and breaking not bending and the Imperial Fists being Steel and bending but not breaking is kinda bull. Dorn's legion was one of the only loyalist legions that began fracturing BEFORE the codex was even introduced. Purterabo wasn't chosen to defend terra, not because he was unyielding, but because he could see the eye of terror and was supposed to watch over the thing. Dorn also has a penchant for gold and all the colors that The Emperor likes.

Something about Dorn that should also be mentioned is that, in keeping with the iron vs. steel thing, Dorn can actually be just as just as passionate and explosive as Perturabo but goes out of his way to restrain himself. For instance, he arguably takes the news of Horus’ sedition the WORST out of any of the Loyalist Primarchs. Not only does he nearly kill Garro with one stroke but he erupted into a frenzied grief, wrecking his quarters on the Phalanx. But he still tries to keep it private once he begins to listen to reason, he understands he acted out of order but still can’t contain his confusion, anger and sorrow. He just directs it where nobody gets hurt. Indeed his passion with his brothers I think often goes understated, dare I say Dorn might have been the only Primarch other than Fulgrim to genuinely make an effort to connect with Curze. In The Dark King, while the confrontation ends in violence, Dorn doesn’t just write Curze off as a crazy idiot: he genuinely tries to appeal to his better nature and only starts getting forceful when Konrad basically spits in his face and then friggin’ assaults Dorn in one of his psychotic episodes. It’s clear, however, that Rogal never wrote him off after that, as seen in the companion story The Lightning Tower. If anything he seems to take it extremely personally and it starts to ferment into this concealed anger. But unlike Perturabo, who just gave into the despair of his situation, Dorn is someone who TRIES to see the good in people despite that goodwill having been constantly besieged by both his brothers and humanity in general. That’s what I admire about Dorn, for as much as the Heresy impacted him, he never fully let go of that hope. He can be cold, abrupt, even rude at times, but never spiteful, never malicious.

bro that title and thumbnail go hard as fuck

"you reconciliated me with dorn, nice." an Iron warrior enjoyer. edit: the next one to come back is remored to be leman russ, has the box for the 11th edition is leaked to be Space wolves vs orks

So far it looks like Jagatai, mortarion redemption, leman Russ, and Dorn. My prediction for Dorn would be that he would acceptting the name of the Black Templars instead of renaming them because they are his true sons by never-ending their crusade

I have often heard the comparison that Dorn is stone and Perturabo is iron. In terms that iron can be corrupted, but stone cannot.

Am I the only one to notice how well the Omori soundtrack in the end alludes to the family drama and mental changes?

My favorite Primarch and the motivation for my first Tattoo

For Konrad please read ‘the painted count’ as it is pretty reliable for Konrad and puts that one puzzle piece together where it counts. Basically i relate to him the most in a way. We all have that one moment that is pretty bad- for me my mind cannot process it in the same way two magnets that oppose cannot meet. I know there have been 3 times i found a answer to a question i have been seeking but i know the turmoil- but i don’t remember experiencing said turmoil or the cause because my mind blanks it out after about a hour or two, or alternatively days, weeks, going as far as leaving 7 years being a large blank. I know that in the opposing magnetic field my mind writhes in, there is a answer and i know i cannot repeat the paths knowingly and i know my mind nudges when i get close to the answers in that field. I know it is a failure of what i had promised to the one person that mattered. Konrad’s visions bring about such self destructive turmoil in field similar to that and the turmoil, but what happens once what you have foreseen and predicted comes into play and there is no more turning back, no more denial, forgetting and no more forgiveness either because the person who can forgive you has died, or the ones that remain in any relation refuse to let you go holding the promise like a remote, and holding the wound left on you like a key to wind up doll… turn the key and be entertained. What becomes of a man after that, Angron can mirror this but in his mind he knows, until Khorn gives him visions and dreams such as in the 7th book of the siege of Terra series.

I'm both an Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors fan It's funny when they fight.

Hey Arthur, in case you’re wondering, you brought up the kapiculu continuum on Astartes Anonymous.

You didnt talk about how he never lies, no matter what

I think also Rogal thought of himself as an artist, not in the Blood Angel music and sculpture way. Dorn was/is a builder his art was that of buildings and cities. I think his dream was to build a palace worthy of his father. This is why I think he should be the next loyalist primarch, Robutes art is logistics/politics, Lions art is the sword, when you have those pillars you have the foundations to build a new empire.

Celestine's most hated primarch, this vid must be torture.

Rogal Dorn! The Wall!