RogerEUC - My take on the GodMod - Take it or leave it?

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Roger EUC

Roger EUC

Жыл бұрын

The God+Mod is an EUC addon that is supposed to increase performance by adding available power. I think it doesn't help my Begode Master.
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Пікірлер: 121
@Duf
@Duf Жыл бұрын
When it comes to subjects like this - In Roger I Trust....
@roghaj
@roghaj Жыл бұрын
Thank you, my friend. I really wish it had an impact on my wheel. I love every advantage I can get.
@Blox117
@Blox117 Жыл бұрын
you should not have trust in a person. learn, so that you can trust yourself
@Duf
@Duf Жыл бұрын
@@Blox117 I am careful whom I put my trust in :)
@ullle66
@ullle66 Жыл бұрын
@@DufYou put your trust in the right person…perhaps also read my new comment….
@goofynate9
@goofynate9 Жыл бұрын
I love these types of vids… riding and all that is fun but I love understanding the tech involved. Thanks again Rogjah
@roghaj
@roghaj Жыл бұрын
It’s kind of fun to have your tentacles into every aspect of the hobby.
@goofynate9
@goofynate9 Жыл бұрын
@@roghaj amen… that was the mindset with Eskate and hoverboards. I got a EUC so I could learn about the engineering involved as well as learn to ride one. I did not realize it would somewhat overtake my Eskate goals and riding time. But hey it’s all growth and I got a few used packs I can tear apart for my first battery project. Once I can build batteries I don’t see much holding my back.
@TheAnimeist
@TheAnimeist Жыл бұрын
The advantage the GodMod gives you, is that a capacitor can supply voltage faster than a battery can. But like Roger says, if wires are involved, you may not be gaining any performance. For the battery there is a chemical reaction that takes place to generate the voltage, and therefore a lag exists before the voltage appears. For the capacitor the voltage is already there and only needs to be discharged. Also in general, capacitors provide much higher currents for short periods of time than batteries. This makes them ideal for applications requiring bursts of power.
@richsam287
@richsam287 Жыл бұрын
Its one of those things, right, where I'm sure the maker of these things has the best intentions, I mean I would hope so... This has always short-circuited my brain the way they were marketed. I think you eloquently made your point, hat's off for doing so. Great Vid.
@roghaj
@roghaj Жыл бұрын
Yeah, when the claims are a bit too outlandish, leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
@ElectricUnicycles
@ElectricUnicycles Жыл бұрын
Thanks for finally putting this video out Roger ✊ Good practical advice. The only correction that I might offer is regards to induction and the length of the wires to the capacitors. Theoretically correct but in practice for this scenario, I think the inductance could be consider zero. And I think the capacitor lead orientation is only a physical consideration (packaging requirements, etc)
@roghaj
@roghaj Жыл бұрын
kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ocqAmcyLmJ3Se6c.html
@Kickersoccer69
@Kickersoccer69 Жыл бұрын
Actually Roger is on point! The reason we have caps on board is that the electron flow from battery is to slow. When your caps are dead you have weak pedals (and finally your board will blow because of the stress). So yes, caps ON board are good…caps between battery and board are useless….
@ElectricUnicycles
@ElectricUnicycles Жыл бұрын
@@Kickersoccer69 my comment was referring to the Roger's view that it's better to use Radial capacitors vs Axial capacitors, from an electrical point of view. There's no difference in this application.
@ullle66
@ullle66 Жыл бұрын
@@ElectricUnicycles Sorry, then i missunderstood that. Just Typical German 2. account….Ulf ;-)
@ElectricUnicycles
@ElectricUnicycles Жыл бұрын
@@ullle66 LOL
@Kickersoccer69
@Kickersoccer69 Жыл бұрын
Hy Roger! You are ABSOLUTELY on point! This „godMods“ do nothing but cost us money. The reason there are caps on the board is exactly described by you: because it takes the electrons of the battery a short time to come through. A board with defective caps feels like a swinging ship, pedals are weak as the powerfully is to slow. Adding caps between Board and battery has just pretty much NO EFFECT at all…. It’s kind of a misunderstanding of electronics….. So thanks for the heads-up for the community!!!!
@Kickersoccer69
@Kickersoccer69 Жыл бұрын
And btw: NOPE….in NO Way at all, it does NOT even protect from so called high speed cutouts! Or ANY cutOut….
@roghaj
@roghaj Жыл бұрын
I still think it is going to be almost impossible to convince the people that already spent $300+ dollars on this product.
@Blox117
@Blox117 Жыл бұрын
the electrons no, electricity is the change in electric fields. not electrons
@ostumbling
@ostumbling Жыл бұрын
I don't believe God mod can prevent cutouts and I don't think Declan was trying to say that was the case. I think it is a buffer between you and a possible cut out and I also think it can add a little more zip to your wheels performance as well as give some benefit when riding in cold weather. I think for some people any little enhancement that creates a little more enjoyment is worth paying for. To each their own I say. I'm going to give it a shot and see what I think.
@UStride
@UStride Жыл бұрын
Thanks for this Roger.
@roghaj
@roghaj Жыл бұрын
I enjoy, sharing my opinion.
@EUC420
@EUC420 Жыл бұрын
Good looking out bro. I was wondering what it was.
@roghaj
@roghaj Жыл бұрын
No problem 👍
@AirsoftArg
@AirsoftArg Жыл бұрын
Can't wait to see more of your vids, great technical content!!!
@roghaj
@roghaj Жыл бұрын
Much appreciated! I’ve always got some things in the pipeline. Looking forward to sharing them with everyone.
@slydogracing
@slydogracing Жыл бұрын
Thanks Roger!
@roghaj
@roghaj Жыл бұрын
My pleasure.
@electric_meadows_racing
@electric_meadows_racing Жыл бұрын
Let's get these caps onto the board
@roghaj
@roghaj Жыл бұрын
I'm going to try on my race wheel... no real downside to trying.
@ChrisTorina1
@ChrisTorina1 Жыл бұрын
Tons of knowledge dropped in this video 🤯 No grudge 😂
@roghaj
@roghaj Жыл бұрын
Thanks Chris.
@hatemale1609
@hatemale1609 Жыл бұрын
Hi Roger, do you know of any particular wheels that you think could benefit from the god mod?
@RUillistEUC
@RUillistEUC Жыл бұрын
Gotway monster v2 100v and Monster pro from personal experience
@arevee9429
@arevee9429 Жыл бұрын
I saw the EUC upgrade review too and sure, it keeps the wheel balanced for a while after the battery is removed, but other than helping with a very brief loss of power from the battery, I can't see how this thing can greatly improve safety. On the endless list of EUC accessories, this one's way further down the list than something useful - like the Roger charger!
@OliGerard
@OliGerard Жыл бұрын
Great clarification ! Thanks for sharing your feedback. Regarding your new studio, is it an hypnotic tool just behind you? 😂😂😂
@VictorBreazzeal
@VictorBreazzeal Жыл бұрын
PS Roger Mikey and I might be able to start some of the early stages of the meta wheel soon i think you will like it and your expertise would be greatly appreciated as well we should all stick together and build the wheel we deserve not the ones that are made for us
@roghaj
@roghaj Жыл бұрын
I’m always a quick telegram chat away.
@y_i_fly6256
@y_i_fly6256 Жыл бұрын
Great information. There’s nothing more that I don’t like and that’s how to waist money on something you may not need. So former FPV pilot and got out due to the regulations? The FPV coalition and community’s trying to raise the weight limit from 250 grams to 1 kilogram. So remote ID wouldn’t be needed unless flying professionally. Might take a while but who knows, it might happen.
@VictorBreazzeal
@VictorBreazzeal Жыл бұрын
you are correct that is why we really need caps on all 3 phases as well if you can keep the electrical inertia going it will give even more benefit that and a good ultra capacitor would give you more cut out advantage the caps on the phases need to run like they do on Tesla's power systems how they call it tesla virtual machine if the electrons don't stop you get more benefits
@roghaj
@roghaj Жыл бұрын
There is a bus bar across the phases on the new Begode main boards. Super thick, heavy duty copper. Hard to argue with that.
@VictorBreazzeal
@VictorBreazzeal Жыл бұрын
@@roghaj I am pretty excited that both inmotion and Begode are pushing the power levels I am hopeful that KingSong joins the party more competition is always better
@ZenLee
@ZenLee Жыл бұрын
Very informative, using God Mod now, wheel feels noticeable more responsive. Nobody crashed into you at the starting line.....!
@roghaj
@roghaj Жыл бұрын
Nobody
@ullle66
@ullle66 Жыл бұрын
Hy Rog, to make it short…i am totally with you! And btw: When a capacitor leg on your Euc has burned (one is a enough) your EUC instantly becomes like a boat in waves, you can also call it ULTRA soft mode if you want. And yes, sooner or later because of spikes in voltage the board is destroyed then anyway. I had that happen real life two times! I would differ on one thing: If you add more caps in parallel on the board, i call it a good thing. But throwing them between battry and board is just a placebo, and not more. Proof alone is one fact: Why did companies like begode or IM go the expensive way and add more caps to their board to make them safer….when it would be so cheap and easy and just put some caps somewhere between board and battery like the GodMod. This logical conclusion ALONE should leave everyone questioning the use of “GodMods”….
@shinobieuc
@shinobieuc 7 ай бұрын
I'm actually surprised that godmod guy doesn't just make a pcb board with say 2psc-4psc for each pack. Yea it'll take a bit of space and with the way euc are, there's no other space for controllers, but it would imo be way better.
@roghaj
@roghaj 7 ай бұрын
your solution is better, but also way more complicated.
@Papalou1234
@Papalou1234 Жыл бұрын
Roger Euc thank you that thing is imo a good for the maker to make money without giving real benefits to the buyer... i can see the crash you had in the race still have this sour taste... I seen Jediah crash into another rider on a grroup ride over a year ago on one of Archee video nothing new here....keep those informative video coming👌🏻
@roghaj
@roghaj Жыл бұрын
Thanks mate. I’ll do what I can.
@trubttam
@trubttam Жыл бұрын
Yeah I’m over god mod, I installed a second one on my s22 and still got pedal dips on some jumps, s22 pro w/ 40T packs is way better. Let’s go on a dirt ride soon doood
@supercurioTube
@supercurioTube Жыл бұрын
Makes sense, it's good to hear that the new HH motor performs significantly better in high phase current situations.
@roghaj
@roghaj Жыл бұрын
You are the main person that kept me from being convinced this is all smoke and mirrors. I feel better now.
@shoestatus
@shoestatus Жыл бұрын
We really wanna know when ROJ MOD?
@roghaj
@roghaj Жыл бұрын
Mine is a bit more involved. I just realized I have not been filming any of it. I suck at this KZfaq thing.
@emerymako4063
@emerymako4063 Жыл бұрын
What about tilt back safety?
@Roskellan
@Roskellan Жыл бұрын
I believe the GodMod is just x2 2200uF Capacitors. As such on a 134V wheel it would be capable of providing 1KW of extra power on demand for around 100mS (0.1 of a Sec [in a best case scenario]). Given that in the time required the power being drawn from the battery may well be in the order of 5KW, is that relevant, well maybe for 0.1 of a second. There is another consideration, the control board provides power to the wheel using PWM. That is the power is switched on and off at high speed in varying ratio. Averaging out the load on the battery would provide a saving from the losses incurred through the internal impedance of the batteries. The only thing though, there are already capacitors on the control board that look to be already providing this function. A further negative in respect to installing this modification. Installation requires the unplugging of the main battery supply to the control board and adding an adapter that provides for connecting the GodMod. This adapter adds a further connector in serial with the battery supply and an additional lead all be it short. Failure of this connection obviously would be catastrophic, but also the increased resistance into the circuit, the exact opposite of what we are trying to achieve. Low ESR capacitors are important to prevent the capacitors from getting hot (like main boards around 70C being the limit). The GodMod Capacitors though fit for purpose perhaps, are not low ESR they General Purpose.
@roghaj
@roghaj Жыл бұрын
It sounds like you know what you’re talking about. If someone handed you the God mod for free, would you install it?
@Roskellan
@Roskellan Жыл бұрын
​@@roghaj No I would not install this, the protection from cutout (which is what this is aimed at, voltage SAG) is minimal and short lived. When people ride the top speed of their machine the power the wheel can provide (battery, control board, motor) is at a maximum, there is no more available torque available should they accelerate. A very short lived (0.1 sec) extra demand through hitting a bump maybe might be helped by this device but that person is riding the edge, would this really make that much difference. Far better to set PWM alarms (80% typical), "Safety Margin" in EUC World. I look at the graph for Safety Margin for my tours to see just how much of the machines capability I was using at any point in my ride. On my S18 in particular I could easily see when my margins were getting thin and what I was doing and where I was at the time. I can adjust my subsequent behaviour accordingly. Experienced riders (and from your videos you clearly understand this yourself) who understand their machines, and the relationship between torque and power from standstill to the top speed can run their margins thinner, and ride according to the risks they are taking (gentle acceleration, smooth surfaces, low wind, zero gradients as they approach the limits) , but even these people make mistakes. One other thing on the electrical front I would add. This device is attempting to address Voltage SAG. The power being delivered to the wheel is in Watts, near top speed this will be near the limit of what the battery can deliver. If demand for current (Amps) is beyond that which the battery is specified its voltage will drop (Voltage SAG). Now Watts=VoltsxAmps. So at near the limit if the current is too high the voltage will sag, but the power required is still the same so in order for Watts to remain the same the current will have to increase which will cause an even greater voltage sag. A vicious circle, which is one of the reasons why cutouts can be so abrupt. Keep adding to this post. Another alarm I set is a current alarm on EUC World, the 50e batteries are rated 9.8A (you can draw greater for short periods) by continuous discharge but looking at the spec evidence of voltage sag is present as early as 7.5A, so I multiply the number of cells in parallel by 7.5 and set the alarm so I'm aware. Of course I can cut my margins as thin as I like 7.5A works for me. My S18 for example is set for 22 Amps.
@Blox117
@Blox117 Жыл бұрын
@@Roskellan safety margin in EUC world is waaaay lower than pwm. it tells me my exn can only hit 27mph at full charge before its unsafe!
@Roskellan
@Roskellan Жыл бұрын
@@Blox117 That's interesting, EUC World is a godsend to me on the S18. The S18 being one of those wheels you have to pay attention to in respect to not overpowering it.
@Blox117
@Blox117 Жыл бұрын
@@Roskellan useful for a special case, i think it is way too safety conservative for powerful wheels
@Onelastrun
@Onelastrun Жыл бұрын
Thank you man for putting content 🙏 out that can educate riders! As this entire e.u.c. scene is still new, in my opinion, and is not straight forward at all when it comes to repairs/maintenance on these things. Let alone having a local shop that can do it for you. I hope you get to answer this question! But in ur other video talking about unbricking your master/t4, is there a reason or cause to the brick? A way to avoid this travesty? I am a new rider to the club and went with the T4!. Yes I know, heavy wheel for a newb. But already done! 😆. But I'm afraid to update the firmware and brick the thing before I really get a chance to learn it. Any suggestions? Thanks again man!
@roghaj
@roghaj Жыл бұрын
Usually comes from using your phone during the update. Leave it so the screen stays on and don't touch it :P
@Onelastrun
@Onelastrun Жыл бұрын
@Roger EUC thanks! Alien rides said not to update if not needed. I'm not sure if my T4 will end up doing that chattering thing like the guys from eevee's or chooch experienced. Seeing I've only been able to ride max, 10ft now. 😄 but just trying to be preventive is all. Thanks again!
@roghaj
@roghaj Жыл бұрын
@@Onelastrun I wouldn't be afraid to update.... Id say use EUC world and do the freestyler firmware... It adds a bit of power and true PWM reporting to Darknessbot. If it fails, you just gotta do the recovery thing. Hasn't failed yet.
@Onelastrun
@Onelastrun Жыл бұрын
@@roghaj awesome! Thank you!
@supercurioTube
@supercurioTube Жыл бұрын
Good point, with the added wire harness, these capacitors end up having *really* long "legs" Did you find no observable difference in pedal stiffness in all the pedal modes or only hard mode?
@roghaj
@roghaj Жыл бұрын
All modes feel the same on my master with and without the GodMod
@deadmonkeyeuc2594
@deadmonkeyeuc2594 Жыл бұрын
@@roghaj thats weird. i feel a BIG difference with my v2 master. my v2 master has some pretty bad pedal dipping without it. is there something wrong with my v2 master then?
@liamventer
@liamventer 5 ай бұрын
I am wondering what this chaps electronic training/qualifications are?
@roghaj
@roghaj 5 ай бұрын
Me? I have none 🙂
@liamventer
@liamventer 5 ай бұрын
@@roghaj Thanks. I only wondered because some of your terminology and explanations seemed odd...but agree with your conclusions.
@kwk8363
@kwk8363 Жыл бұрын
Can somebody please send link or title to balancing wheel with supercapacitors? I cant find it anywhere
@supercurioTube
@supercurioTube Жыл бұрын
It's on EUC UPGRADES (Kevin) channel
@HSterlingCross
@HSterlingCross Жыл бұрын
Nice OnlyFans light set up in the background!
@roghaj
@roghaj Жыл бұрын
You know it!
@garyheywood670
@garyheywood670 Жыл бұрын
Great explanation and funny !!!
@roghaj
@roghaj Жыл бұрын
Thanks. Just think it doesn’t make sense for people to invest in snake oil.
@HumbolSkitso
@HumbolSkitso Жыл бұрын
I think you mightve compared apples to oranges here Roger. The capacitors on the mainboard, aren't they for conditioning voltages? Making sure a nice, easy and safe flow of electricity goes through the mainboard so nothing gets damaged. Then we have these cap-mods and they are being used for storing extra energy for use when excess is needed to keep voltage levels safe and stable. I see this same scenario of super capacitors being used in car audio all the time. The super cap banks are used to help with voltage stability when an amplifier has high electrical current demands that the battery cant fully handle for an extended duration of time. The caps have their limits aswell, they rely on the batteries. So in an euc situation, where there is no alternator continuously charging the battery, losing range will become something to consider. Heres a video of what i mean with car audio. This is on the extreme side of things lol. He has voltage meters installed, those are the blue lights that move with the music. The far right meter is the one showing voltage levels. Blue lights are good, yellow is volts getting low, red is dangerously low volts. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/lceWddqUz929mH0.html
@supercurioTube
@supercurioTube Жыл бұрын
In the discussion groups and forums, a couple of electronic engineers attempted to calculate how extra capacitors could contribute. The conclusions were that they could only possibly for a matter of a few short milliseconds thanks to their lower resistance. But ultimately, the energy capacity of these caps (not super caps) is many orders of magnitude too small to smooth voltage drops where they matter in our application, like during strong acceleration lasting one or several seconds vs the amount of energy drained. However it some cases users observed that they could filter higher frequencies enough to alter the PID tuning - therefore pedal stiffness in some of the modes, which seems to be the reason why they could "feel" the difference. It was not the case for Roger's config tho.
@roghaj
@roghaj Жыл бұрын
The first thing I did was try soft mode. Didn’t feel any different to me.
@Blox117
@Blox117 Жыл бұрын
@@supercurioTube unless there was blind testing i doubt they noticed a difference
@supercurioTube
@supercurioTube Жыл бұрын
@@Blox117 unfortunately yes nobody completed a double blind test yet on that. Maybe later if that becomes something popular and doesn't simply die off as concept.
@dougsuen1986
@dougsuen1986 Жыл бұрын
With shorter wiring, does it affect the PID loops and make the riding mode feel harder?
@roghaj
@roghaj Жыл бұрын
There is no way to know without testing it.
@omidel.
@omidel. Жыл бұрын
How did ypu burned all those boards?..Master and mastepro suposed to have good.torque and speed....just curious?.....nice vide as usual😄
@roghaj
@roghaj Жыл бұрын
I’ve only burnt one myself. The other one was from a severe crash that actually cracked the PCB. The rest of the boards all came from other people who I was simply assisting in repairs on. I made a video about the thermal connection between the main board and the main board chassis for the master, master pro, and ex30.
@stevescott5858
@stevescott5858 Жыл бұрын
Roger I have MP v2 coming soon, I’m 230lbs and been riding a v11 for 2yrs! Is there anything I should address with the machine (thermal paste, etc..) before i start riding? Or any expert advice for the wheel or riding is greatly appreciated
@roghaj
@roghaj Жыл бұрын
I would say that the thermal paste thing is only a concern if you are doing low speed high torque things on the wheel. Nice comfortable pads are the most important. If you start doing crazy off road, change the shock/linkage and do the thermal paste mod.
@stevescott5858
@stevescott5858 Жыл бұрын
Thank you! Also, should I worry about it catching fire while charging? Is a fire bag or something needed for piece of mind?
@andrescameron2970
@andrescameron2970 3 ай бұрын
Do you think it would do anything for a Sherman S and an S22 pro?
@roghaj
@roghaj 3 ай бұрын
I hear there is an effect for a standard S22
@user-bp5py6bh3g
@user-bp5py6bh3g Ай бұрын
Nope, it's snake oil that doesn't do anything
@DarthEUC
@DarthEUC Жыл бұрын
48 MORE SUBS TO GO LIVE!!!!
@BunnyslippersEUC
@BunnyslippersEUC Жыл бұрын
Then I better subscribe with my second YT account
@roghaj
@roghaj Жыл бұрын
I can already go live.
@roghaj
@roghaj Жыл бұрын
I don’t plan on doing the type of videos that Mask enjoys. I am a bit shy.
@DarthEUC
@DarthEUC Жыл бұрын
Oh...i thought u needed 1k subs to go live..... my bad
@DarthEUC
@DarthEUC Жыл бұрын
@Roger EUC live is wr its at.... never know wat can happen...
@EverlastingEclipses
@EverlastingEclipses Жыл бұрын
As some would call it.. Let's just leave it at the notion that this thing looks like Forbidden Burrito Wrap. Dont eat it dont try to unwrap the forbidden burrito wrap .. just leave it!
@roghaj
@roghaj Жыл бұрын
There just isn’t much mystery to the thing.
@VllKlNG
@VllKlNG Жыл бұрын
Not worth it imho if you are comparing performance vs cost.
@roghaj
@roghaj Жыл бұрын
I have it and I'm not keeping it installed.
@VllKlNG
@VllKlNG Жыл бұрын
@@roghaj You bet - I'm basically just agreeing with you and adding extra comments for your youtube algorithm. :)
@firstlast9813
@firstlast9813 Жыл бұрын
Day 2 of asking if you'll drop a tutorial of how to make a Master+
@roghaj
@roghaj Жыл бұрын
I'm going to make a kit to make it easier to do the mod. Trying to figure out what I should charge.
@firstlast9813
@firstlast9813 Жыл бұрын
@Roger EUC You should follow the rule of 2-3x the material cost + 50% (of material cost) to cover man hours of assembly. (Just a suggestion) Thanks for responding. I didn't get the notification.
@patrickmckowen2999
@patrickmckowen2999 Жыл бұрын
Good vid. There is a gentleman that has a YT channel, EV Component Reviews, any one that wants to send him an old or new board for review is welcomed. Maybe we can find out how good these boards really are, components used, layout,,,, Cheers
@roghaj
@roghaj Жыл бұрын
There are so many variables, knowing anything is difficult.
@mikeintampa250
@mikeintampa250 Жыл бұрын
Hi Roger, I have a Master I don't have an S22, but all the reports I saw on it over time indicated that it either didn't have enough capacitors or the capacitors that it had were not large enough. Do you think the Godmod could help improve the s22's safety profile or enable it to have more power?
@roghaj
@roghaj Жыл бұрын
I think the S22 is mostly software limited. Looking at the board, it appears to have enough capacitors, and more FETs then necessary. When I get to my office tomorrow, I will add up the total capacitance to compare to the master. I did notice that the master will give up much earlier than the S 22 would at maximum PWM. That means when I do a spin test on the master it will stay at 100% for less time than the S22
@scottsum1319
@scottsum1319 Жыл бұрын
No Grudge for sure I promise NO GRUDGE! Trust me 🤣. Ya I'm sure U-Stride got that Krystal Kleer 😁. Jokes aside, thanks for sharing your personal anecdotal evidence. I find this god mod to be akin to python thick hifi cables. I've no doubt some ppl can hear a difference esp when they dump $$$$ a piece on them. All good
@DarthEUC
@DarthEUC Жыл бұрын
RIP MASTER PRO
@roghaj
@roghaj Жыл бұрын
Might be selling it to a fast paced clown 🤡 very soon.
@meuconmyeuc1337
@meuconmyeuc1337 Жыл бұрын
I saw this on Go George Go's channel and it effectively did nothing. It was so garbage that I thought the video was a parody for the first half until I realized he wasn't kidding. This "Godmod" is a complete waste of time and effort.
@roghaj
@roghaj Жыл бұрын
I saw you on Duff's livestream.
Unbrick your Master, Master Pro or T4.
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