I’d say that if the art itself is the problematic part such as them drawing stuff like CP, or making racist caricature, then yes, that would be technically considered by me at least, yes that would be problematic. But if it’s just a good drawing that’s non problematic then yeah it’s ok liking the art itself. I can agree for Boyfriends: I like the art for boyfriends I just don’t like the writing and the artist turned out to do some problematic things.

Being entirely honest, the word “problematic” has lost all its meaning.

I think the best overall answer is "it depends-" it depends on 1: Is the art itself the problem or part of it? 2: What did the artist do? and 3 Are you supporting the artist monetarily? I like how your videos actually try to make people think about things rationally rather than just give everyone a solid yes or no, I think thats a serious problem on the internet rn. People are too focused on forcing people to think what they thing, rather than making them come to proper conclusions on their own.

I think It's okay to admit to finding a problematic artists work good, including if it's their non-problematic works, you don't have to view their pages you don't have to support them, you can see if from reposts accounts, and having knowledge about the said artist you can still spread awareness about the problematic artist to those unaware when. Liking the art doesn't automatically tell what type of person you are, but that's what I see a lot of people do today. People are way too antagonistic towards others who want to "seperate art from the artist" to the point it has actually created paranoia within myself in questioning if I am a terrible person myself. I've also seen that it just causes other people to go out of their way to support the said problematic artist out of of spite. When it comes to problematic music artists I prefer to pirate the music, but I still fear I'll get shit for enjoying said music despite me listening to it for years before it has come out that the music artist was problematic.

Definitely depends! if they’re dead it’s easier, but if they’re not, and you’re giving them money. that’s where it gets blurry.

My biggest issue with this whole thing is A) morality is subjective. Sure there are some things like racism that are just bad, but a lot of it is just “they said one tasteless thing, boycott them” B) you don’t know what everyone has done. Only boycotting the people who are outwardly bad gives people who are secretly bad the upper hand

I think the issue is that the word problematic has lost all meaning. There’s this whole purity culture mindset in fandoms now where people cannot accept that just because you enjoy a media that contains dark subject matter doesn’t mean that you suddenly endorse that dark subject matter (most of these warriors are literal children it seems). For example, I read Berserk. Just because I read and enjoy Berserk doesn’t mean I suddenly condone murder and SA and all of the horrible things that happen in the story because those things are clearly not painted as being good. There’s no media literacy. There’s even an issue of sexual topics not being able to be explored at all unless it’s completely vanilla and pure because of this purity culture. If you don’t like a certain subject in your media, that’s fine. But you do not get to police what everyone else enjoys and accuse them of being pedos just because they like a certain show that you don’t. As long as they aren’t hurting anyone, leave them alone. Also I’m going to say it one more time because I’m sick of the Boyfriends shit being brought up because this drama has been blown up way out of proportion: the way y’all hold queer creators as monoliths for the entire community needs to stop. I’m not saying absolve them of any criticism but the fact that there’s so many straight slice of life fluffy comics that just sort of exist and don’t get any flack but when a queer creator makes one they’re expected to appeal to everyone and when they don’t a giant witch hunt ensues. Openly queer artists are held to an unreasonable standard when in comparison to straight artists and I think if everyone just stopped treated them with this mindset we would be better off. Y’all are already putting Taika on a pedestal and what happens when he can’t deliver and makes one misstep? Give them a break.

First and foremost, there is no problem with liking art by a problematic creator. However, that shouldn’t excuse them from being held accountable. People who enjoy a problematic creator’s non-problematic art aren’t horrible people and shouldn’t be declared as such for doing so. Where the issue lies for me is when those who are very well aware of the creator's actions, yet still choose to support and defend them. They are clearly only doing so because they simply like the art/creation. It sets a dangerous precedent that popular/talented people get a free pass because of the fact they're good at something. (Which is also apparently problem) Like it or not, there are problems within the art community (and the internet as a whole) and when someone perpetuates those problems, they should be acknowledged, and the creator should be held accountable. Period. And as I said before, the best way to do that is not supporting them directly, or financially and use a platform to spread awareness of their actions. I am a part of a marginalized group, and as someone who is directly affected by oppression, it is extremely hurtful to see people with influence use hateful terms to insult others or “as a joke.'' It's hard for me to separate a piece from someone who thinks someone like me doesn’t deserve to be seen as a human being nor acknowledge these types of inequalities as a serious issue. And If I see an artist openly saying horrific things (such as slurs) I will not directly support them any longer. It's a real shame a lovely artist can make a horrific person. I overall think it very much depends on you and how bad the person is. My best example is CreepShow art. If what they did was really stinkin' bad to the point you just can't stand supporting their creative endeavours any longer. Don't.

Oh my god FINALLY someone is saying it: people are trying to justify disliking something through morality to shield themselves, and that’s the source of literally all of our problems with cancel culture.

Picasso is a poor example in my opinion. Most of his earlier pieces are vastly different and would be unrecognisable if you were to compare it to what most people know him for, you would think it a different person. Still a good video and love the nuance. I wish people gave the same energy they give to JK Rowling to Stephanie Meyer... like using a real native American tribe as a plot device and depicting them as violent when they're really trying to get away from being feared and discriminated against based on misconceptions of the past and apparently not compensating them for their likeness? Eh.. that's kind of problematic considering they profited, isn't it? I saw this very nuanced video essayist Shanspeare discuss it and that's kind of the only person I saw talk about the topic.

i like to think of art and artist in a relationship like child and parent. The child exhibiting abusive habits can mean the parent is bad but doesn't necessarily mean the child is bad. Alone, the child has their own personality but their upbringing still affects them, be it a trait they inherited or a behavior they picked up. Just like how there is art that is cute but the creator has hate for certain groups of people, a child can still be a kind person but be raised in a homophobic/transphobic/etc environment. Being friends with that person doesnt mean you support that mentality but if you spend time together spitting acid about that group does.

The point where you talk about people having to justify not liking an artists art was something I really agreed with. The author of a series I’m reading got exposed for some art they made depicting incest and following people who made shotacon art. Personally I still find their series an interesting read however there were many people on the internet expressing how much they hated it. When reading all these opinions it really had me like “why weren’t you saying this when we didn’t know what the author did?” You can dislike things because you dislike them there doesn’t need to be a story behind it 🤨

The people who refuse to separate art from "problematic" artists tend to be hypocrites, since they tend to be the same sorts of people who complain about big companies being problematic yet still eat up their products (the smartphones they use to complain being the biggest example). Independent artists just happen to be easier targets for them.

It is definitely a controversial gray area. At the end of the day I don't have my own definition, I just know that I wouldn't blame someone for still liking their comfort interest if the artist turned out to be terrible. If someone loves Harry Potter, I think that's fine. If it was their dream to go to Harry Potter Universal, I wouldn't blame them for that either. I just think it's kinda wrong to expect people to miss out on things they love in this short life because of someone else. Like, if Toby Fox suddenly turned out to be a terrible person, I would still enjoy and consume Undertale and Deltarune content. I wouldn't like Toby Fox, but I would like the games. Of course this is very different if the art is as problematic as the person, but most of the time pop culture things tend to encompass entire franchises/worlds rather than a problematic red flag like CP.

I think it depends. One example I have is that I used to support CreepShow Art. I thought her art style is interesting and thought she was kinda funny. After everything came out about her I couldn't even watch her videos. I also felt guilty for supporting her. I didn't buy any merch from her but knowing I supported someone toxic I felt like a terrible person. Not really sure if this is a good example of it, I guess this example is more extreme.

I will say that people on twitter take 'you shouldn't separate art from artist' way to seriously sometimes. For example, I'm really looking forward to Hogwarts Legacy and I'm always checking twitter for updates about the game, and the amount of people that I've seen bullying and harassing other people because they came out and said they're excited for the game is insane. I've seen trans people come out and say they're excited for the game and they've had people comment on their posts saying that they're world class traitors and that they don't belong in the LGBT community, and I don't agree with this. I honestly believe that people should be allowed to like what they want and be able to consume what they want without people coming after them and accusing them of being something just because of what they love. Like, just because I love learning about Germany during WW2 doesn't mean I'm a Nazi just as much as me loving Harry Potter doesn't make me transphobic.

I mean as long as the art isn't directed towards what the person did I can say it's ok to admire the art, just not exactly supporting the artist

Reminds me of Tchaikovsky having a relationship with his nephew which is quite disturbing. But it doesn't change the fact that his music is beautiful and enjoyable.

i always value acknowledging that you can in fact enjoy work made by a horrible person, and that horrible people can in fact be talented. Picasso was an amazing painter, extremely. Horrible person. Humans are multifaceted, and while i'm not saying you should go on uncritically consuming art made by terrible people, it's good to keep in mind.

The issue with separation of art from artist is when people use it to justify ignoring bigotry in content and directly supporting the artist financially. One of the biggest examples of this issue is the Miku Made ____ joke It works for minecraft because notch/Markus no longer makes financial gain off of minecraft, minecraft merchandise, minecraft events, and so on/so forth. But it does not work for Harry Potter and other Rowling works because she still benefits largely from HP books, merch, tickets to Universal, tickets to plays, and much more, but that's not the whole reason, it's also because her racism/antisemitism is inherently baked into her work, HP has many severely racial stereotyped characters, slavery is a thing in universe and slave characters often go off about how they love being slaves, Hermione is even treated as naive and aloof BY THE BOOK for wanting to free them, and her more recent non HP books have her terfy views baked into the content as well. Separation of art from artists is a complex and nuanced concept, but it falls apart when you're willingly supporting bigotry without care, nuance, or accountability whatsoever. You can still love HP just as you love Minecraft, but you still need to hold the artists behind them accountable (and if possible try and avoid direct financial support of bigoted creators of medias when you can)

I think absolutely, like for example: I can listen to Lil Mosey, while knowing what he did. The art isn't 100% representative of the person, now does that mean - we shame the victims if doing so? no. It's in no way, helping the predator(especially, if they are in prison).

I think it’s fine as long as the art itself isn’t the problem and you aren’t supporting them monetarily. For example I still like listening to Crystal Castles even after what happened, I just listen to reposts of their music

I didn't expect my comment to be featured but thank you! this video is wonderfully put with how much of a grey area it is and the feelings of the issue change from person to person. some can mentally separate the two and others can't. it's an very individual decision, and it's not on others to tell people what they can and can't consume. it's also dependent on the person who sees the situation. especially how rampent and sometimes rediculous cancel culture can be (not all cases of course some are actually calling out awful behavior) but those that are wildly spread without any investigation it's up to a viewer to form their own opinion based on the facts they can see. some might take it at face value and some may feel it's false but both are not wrong for feeling either way. With my comment I do want to clarify that I do mean every single piece of work no matter how good and bad a person is. life experience and what people lived through are important with knowing perhaps why an artist is doing what they do. even without meaning too and you can't always see it in their work just every experience can effect how someone even hold tools to make their work, (now looking back this feels more like a philosopical take than anything lol )but there is as well as you said and audience interpretation IE. "death of the author" both exist and it's hard to articulate how the two concepts can both exist at the same time and be true

I liked at the end of the video when she said that if u dont feel comfortable liking an artists work, u dont have to like it, but also dont demonize ppl who do. I would like to add that from the perspective of the person liking the art, they should be understanding of why someone else might not feel comfortable liking it.

It depends on whether the art actually includes the bad thing if it does then I don't think you can but if the art doesn't contain the bad thing or even is before the bad thing happened then yes you can separate the art from the artist. I've thought about this long and hard 😭 LOL Also I love your content and I am posting this before watching the whole video but I'm very curious to hear your opinion and to even see if mine will change! 😁

To be honest with those allegations against Vivizepop don’t really hold up when you read the Tumblr post of the suppose ex-employee and the other person claiming to be an old fan of Viv. Also I should bring up that many people are trying to cancel they’ve for years now for really stupid reasons and trying to bring up old drama which is very stupid.

This is a very prevalent issue with musicians too, there are so many songs I can't stop listening to even though the artists are awful people. Very interesting video, thanks for posting!!

I’ve watched a lot more of these videos than I realized. I don’t normally like thinking about controversial subjects, but these videos are the exception. They cover and explain multiple different viewpoints thoroughly and understandably, and gives me stuff to think about in a community that I’m gradually becoming more active in. Lots of thanks for taking the time to research and put together these videos.

Way back in the day, Frank Frazetta did some * really * racist drawings. (Lets not even start with the sexism) So did J.C. Leyendecker, and lots of other artists I could name. Frazetta grew over time, I don't know about Leyendecker. I still love these artists, because I learned a LOT from them. By the way-- I'm a Black Female Artist, so I figure if I can get over it, everyone else should be able to. ;-) In other words, I had a choice: learn from the artists, or not? My other beef is the idea that artists are supposed to be great paragons of Virtue. Seriously? Not realistic. As far as artists now-- I'm surprised that anyone makes any kind of art that could be considered objectionable nowadays? Just wondering. Question: if we "cancel " Potter , are we not also punishing *everyone else connected with those films who aren't Transphobic* and actually spoke against Rowling? Curious as to whether Emma Watson, and other actors names should be tarnished along with Rowling's? This is ...complicated.

“We don’t know sh*t, welcome to the video.”

Not gonna lie I needed a video like this today

I am a Black woman artist, and I draw and paint women myself, especially those of Japanese nativity and ancestry. I think we are all equal! 💛☀️⭐️🌹🕊

I feel as much as people want the moral high ground, it's impossible to only like uncontroversial artists and creators. Like, bad people can make great art. I agree that I wouldn't want to support hate art but if someone's jerkiness is only see if I do a deep dive into the artist personally is just too much effort just to be able to enjoy an art. Not to mention that if a safe artist suddenly makes a bad turn. Or, just wait till all artists are dead.

the recent topics you've covered I was always a bit uncertain about but your videos help a lot in making me see things from different perspectives, so thanks :> and your art is so cute and pretty!

It is always so funny for me whenever I saw someone went "I do not support this artist in any shape or form" before saying something about the artist's art. Like, it is funny for me that they need to clarify it to avoid misunderstanding

I know you were probably half joking about sanrio, but I do have bad news for you 😅 ( they white washed a splatoon character that is black and used to have r4c1st stereotyped black characters). But from what I've seen since the backlash of the splatoon plushie, they seemed to have stopped that. Sanrio likely has multiple artists designing those mascots and drawing them, so definitely a grey area. All I know is that I just wanna keep loving Cinnamoroll and Kuromi TvT

Same goes for music You can like the music and the art You don’t have to like the artist If you can’t understand that simple concept idk what to tell y’all

completely unrelated but I finished washing the dishes to this video and my grandmother is pleased. I've learned and done something productive while listening to something thought-provoking and soothing. thank you.

I'm playing Solitaire while watching your videos, your voice is genuinely pretty and the content is enjoyable in any context

Personally, I think it often depends on the work itself, and on the person. If the art itself has extremely overt and directly harmful depictions of things, then there is a case to be made (although it's still a case by case bases I think). As for people; people have different attachments to different forms to art, and I'm not going to try and dictate how they should enjoy their thing, or tell them that it can't be THAT important to them. I am not them. If you personally cannot shake the art from the artist, and it effects your experience in a big way, then of course you're valid in not wanting to consume that media anymore. However, someone else may simply have a different experience than you, and it would be callous to assume that that person feels the same way. Because assuming that someone else must experience that feeling in a similar way to you breeds the assumption that said person is just...bad, because subconsciously you assume they MUST be having a similar experience, and even so, they continue to consume the art. When, in actuality, they simply didn't experience the same struggles you did, and are able to comfortably separate the art from the artist without compromising their morals, and both are valid experiences. There IS no definitive answer here, THAT is the answer to this dilemma. Some people can't, some people can, and some people can a little, and everything in between. If you want to go out of your way to pirate or not give the artist your money because of your disagreements with their ethics (which can be a little shaky in certain cases; it would be shady to pirate a small/medium sized artist just because you don't like them, this mostly applies to massive artists/authors/businesses) then that's cool, but it's wrong to demonize people who don't. It's their choice, and no matter how much you try and spin it, them spending a money on a form of entertainment they like does not mean you can just label them a "bad person", no matter what your personal convictions are.

It is okay to seperate the art from the artist. Unless the artist did something truly horrible or illegal and reflected it in their art, then it’s okay to leave the art alone. I’ve said some bad stuff as a kid, and if someone dug that up now, I wouldn’t want my webcomic to go down with me.

I know that the “separate the art from the artist” is still a widely debated and controversial subject so people would have mixed opinions or thoughts about it. Imo, I think it’s absolutely possible to like things that a not-so-good person or people have made as long as you don’t condone or support the actions of the not-so-good person or people. For an example, my favorite album is “we had good times, don’t forget that” and I’m aware that the person who made my favorite album which is Sewersl*t has done something bad which is that they said the N-word before they transitioned but I do not support the idea of people using terms that are derogatory or offensive to a certain group of people.

The way you draw hair makes me so happy

There's also the matter of previously harmless appearing art becoming suspicious in hindsight. I used to really like this show called "12 forever" about a 12/13 year old girl that could go to this weird magical land whenever she wanted and just play around. The world building was really creative and interesting, and they dealt with the struggles of puberty pretty heavily. Plus the main character developed a crush on a girl, which was pretty cool. But then it came out that the creator had a history of creepy behavior towards minors, and suddenly watching this cartoon about a young girl struggling with stuff like her body changing became a lot more uncomfortable

Whenever I see things like this, I immediately think of Boyfriends and Bendy the Bunny. Personally, Boyfriends was the first webtoon I ever read, and so I'm naturally biased towards it, however, whenever people ask me about the first webtoon, or anything similar to that, I feel the need to lie and say that it was my second webtoon. Honestly. before knowing the drama behind it all, it was a fun easy-to-read story. The characters were cute, and there were scenes I enjoyed a lot, but after knowing the drama, I find it hard to enjoy things like that anymore. Bendy the Bunny was rather recent, and I still see people re-uploading his animation, without realizing the drama. (I think that Bendy the Bunny is a he, please correct me if not!) That being said, I hadn't ever known anything about his beliefs and actions through his art, or at least because I don't usually dig that deep. what he did was horrible and I'm so glad that people are talking about it. Honestly, the major answer, is it depends. I like a lot of people's art, however, so many people have made such huge shitty mistakes like that. Overall I lean towards keeping art and artist separated, as I believe that as long as you're not supporting the creator, then enjoy the art! You're not hurting anyone by taking a minute or two out of your day to look at a re-upload and enjoy the art or animation or comic style or anything about it! Something somewhat relevant is that Heartstoppers was recently sold at my middle school book fair. I didn't get it but a lot of my friends did, I read it online. The only problem is that due to the book's could language (many swears, even a few f slurs at times) it was supposed to be in the high school. The reason I bring this up is that my mom read it to see what the drama was all about, and after putting it in context, she discovered that most of the swearing came from the characters standing up for themselves. I guess it's sort of like that because art needs context. If you give context to something, it can either be better or worse and so when I say that it depends, I mean that context is everything! From the context of the art itself, to what the artist has done, or is doing, to how you can avoid supporting the artist, or support the artist if they have done good things. Sorry for the long comment lol!

People nowadays forget that they can do whatever tf they want and if others don't like it thats not their problem

Seeing my art in a KZfaq video is so weird in a good way 😂 can’t wait to enter this new contest!

I’d love to see your take on the differences of coping, referencing, stealing and plagiarism within the art community. Since I still think there’s a mud view on how people perceive what’s copied and what’s referenced

Idk i just hate it when people call you garbage for liking a certain artist's art

The Literature Community resolved to separate Art from Artist a long time ago. HP Lovecraft; racist. Edgar Allen Poe; crazy. Etc.

personally i have enought of pablo picasso art being praised when it often depict whomen he assaulted only painted girls he slept with I DO NOT want to study for the 10000 times picasso's art where he said to his wife after beating her she looked beautyfull crying. and then painted her. I think picasso's art isnt enjoyable even guernica was mostly dora mar's idea.

I've always been a believer of the separating art from the artist. as an artist myself, I know it will always be a slippery slope. because like what you said, everyone's perspective of what's good or bad is very relative. I can't lie to myself and pretend that I don't like so and so art because they're a shitty human being. as shitty as they're, they have poured their blood, sweat, and tears for their art. for that I can tell them to take my money, you've earned it. but I also have an egoistical take about it too, unfortunately. because sometimes, when the shitty things they do has something to do with something that I really care about (and somehow I take that personally lol), every respect I have for that person, sympathy, admiration, gone, to the point that their art can't even speak to me anymore. but that's my emotional side deciding things for myself that I have no control about. in this area, it's still depends on the situation and severity. but here's where I (try to) logically draw the line: when they spend or donate their money to a foundation that I strongly believe will harm myself and others. like if I can prove that they're a frequent donor to this very homophobic foundation, or this ecologically harmful project or something. and I realized that there's my hard earned money somewhere in that donation, about to make something worse for a lot of people. that's where I decide to stop spending my money on their art. I'd still "play" with their artistic ideas, like I'd still create stuff that's obviously inspired by them, but I'd never spend my money to any project that they're involved in anymore. one exception is CP or any crime towards children. if any of my favorite artists do that, I'd stop any of my support for them cold turkey.

Every successful person has done at least one bad or harmful thing. Period. If you believe that what they did was terrible enough to waver removal of support or money then you do that! Remember that even if someone made small mistakes you should still call out their BS because if no one calls them out they might not know they did something wrong or believe what they did was okay

"Can I truly love the art, when I kinda hate the artist?" -Role Models by AJR, 2017

It's really interesting to see the history of separating art from the artist 😳

Win after win with your videos!

this reminds me of how so many music artists i listen to always tend to end up having been bad people in one way or another. their music is amazing, but it crushed a bit to know they did wrong things. does that mean i cant listen to them anymore? well, i can. it might not mean the same anymore, though.

there's no such thing as problematic art, just art that you or some other people might find offensive. Some artists who are terrible people might also just draw really wholesome and beautiful art that you can still learn from. Ultimately I find the idea of trying to tie the artist to their work to be very childish.

Very great and informative video! For me, it really depends. If the art is racist, illegal, etc., then I agree that is a big no-no. As for separating art that DOESN'T feature/doesn't primarily feature the artist's problematic views, it gets more complicated for me. There are some instances where I can't and sometimes I can, it really depends on my comfortability level. For example, I really love a lot of Disney's content (A few of their IPs being really big interests of mine right now actually), but I'm also aware of a lot of the problematic and shady things they've done. There are times when I've felt bad about liking their works because of it, but I've figured my stance on the whole thing is it's alright if I like their content, and honestly it's quite hard to fully stop supporting them since they're such a huge company, but that's just me. So yeah, I've figured as long as I look at their views and actions with a critical viewpoint and set my own boundaries and such, I can still keep doing what I'm doing!

I feel like, unless the artist is truly dead, there really isn't a real way to separate the art from the artist, and even then their views might still show through their work so I feel like there really isn't ever a time but that won't make me hate someone for consuming it, just comes down to consuming it critically and without financially supporting them.

Ty I understand both sides of the debate. if you can separate for artist that’s fine if you can’t that’s also fine. I just hate the extremes of both sides that whorls assume you’re a bigot or terrible person for separating artist or consider someone a Extreme feminist for not separating from artist. Those are the people in the debate that I can’t stand.

If you made offensive "jokes" as a kid but are now knowledgeable and respectful and want to right your wrongs, does it still make you a bad person? I'll admit I was a horrible kid, I made very horrible "jokes" but I want to fix myself, I want to prove to others that I HAVE changed, that I will continue changing and wish to never ever harm anyone ever again, but something inside me still feels like I'm a terrible person and that I shouldn't deserve an audience or fame. Am I a bad person?

With the stuff about viewer's depictions and artist's intentions, I had an assignment once where I had to analyze a song as if it were a poem and try to gauge some english stuff but also what the lyrics mean and what the artist could have been thinking when writing them. I chose a song that had lyrics at the drop that spoke to me but after analyzing the whole song that drop couldn't anymore. I really liked my "version" (or depiction) of what the song was way more than what the actual song was and digging into the song too much ruined that depiction for me. Once the art was tied to the artist or their vision more than my depiction of it it lost it's value.

you put the contest at the END??? i'd like to speak to your manager, young lady!

Should you like a person's comments if they've made comments that you've disagreed with? What if that person was cancelled? The problem isn't that we don't know if we can or cannot like a bad person's art; it's the hubris that makes us feel we can control other people by disliking their art. That's what this is all about, is it not? Our desire to control other people, while we ourselves are safe from the same scrutiny because we are anonymous. Because let's face it: We would all be cancelled if people knew everything about us. Let the person who's never done ANYTHING BAD cast the first cancel message.

In my personal opinion, it depends. But I'd like to know your thoughts.

Actually Sanrio did do some controversial stuff like making some of these characters black stereotypes (Bibinba,Sambo and Hannah

People really don’t realize how screwed up a majority of the things we consume already are. If you look into anything you use, whether it’s the company that made your car, smartphone, streaming service, your shirt, etc., or even the styles of clothing you wear (chokers coming from prostitution), it all has a problematic past. People act self righteous and act like they’re a know it all about the purpose of advocacy when they themselves are immoral. You don’t “cancel” people to promote social rights. You cancel people for social points and to be social. You ADVOCATE AND EDUCATE for what your believe in.

:) when they start hating an artist, it's no longer about the Art. it becomes personal, then it becomes a war of attrition, where people follow the most influential regardless if they are right or wrong, and attack the other person and wait till they snap, they will try to meme it, but if you continue and show resilience and skill, that hate turns to fear, and then they try to cancel you for a whole other reason, because one day my work will cancel them.. so it becomes personal. if it's bad work you will know quick, because the meme's will catch on more then your Art (all types of Art) ive had about 10k 20k people come down on me, not once did they say my work was bad, but they also choose not to support it. (means it's personal)

As others have said, it really depends. Personally though, if the art itself, without the lens of the artists morality, isn't problematic, then it's fine. My example is Len and Hatsumi, their behaviour is very much disgusting. However, it will not stop my monkey brain from thinking that their content is beautiful and something that I hope to achieve someday.

Very well done on such a complicated issue. This video obviously focus's mainly on solo artists, but it gets even more complicated when you think about supporting art (such as film and animation) made by corperations like Disney that definitely have a lot wrong with them, but then are the individuals that worked for them to be punished too?

Oh boy, this is something I’ve thought about for years and years ever since I first heard a musical artist I like did bad things. I could write a whole essay about this topic, but if I had to tell anyone worrying about this topic, just know that the only people who really care about this are the terminally online. Most people will accept “I like this thing, not the person who made it”. And if you are the terminally online, don’t judge people who like what they like no matter who made it, unless it’s like cheese pizza or something. You’ve liked at least a handful of things that have been made by bad people, so do not pretend you are above it all.

I think it's fine to like artists art even if they're bad, assuming you're not actively enabling them

9/10 I can separate art from the artist, but if said artist is going out of their way to do something like attempt to deplatform someone else just because they don't like them for say their politics and saying that they're "bad" because possibly straight white Christian conservative male I have a problem with that. Messing with people's money just because you don't like them for that reason is a dick move. Now if someone is an actual predator with cold hard evidence? Nope, can't separate that at all, I will vehemently refuse to support them in any way, they are not worthy of my time, money, etc. If I spent five minutes of my time looking at their stuff then as far as I am concerned that's five minutes I'm never getting back.

alot of art was created by terrible people or terrible times...the art itself though is still nice regardless and at least that much should be able to be acknowledged.

Real good discussion

I think the whole debate “seperate art from artist” dives into a bigger issue about the world we live in. We have no choice but to buy and live under questionable companies/corporations anyway. There’s no true way of knowing of something is super ethical or not, we’re all victims to “bad artists” in one way or another. Your clothes could’ve been bought from a sweatshop, your meat from an inhumane farm and you wouldn’t know because anyone could be lying about these things as companies often do even if it’s against the law, the law is not a magic power that can just prevent crimes immediately, it’s enforced as a rule. It’s like the oil companies that paid governments to keep them hidden from public attention. We are a monstrous species and we’ve done a lot of irredeemable things, thinking about all the plastic we still buy that gets chucked into the ocean, even if it’s labeled as bio degradable. There’s no way to finically not support bad people when the whole world is run by capitalism. There is no true pure morally good way to live no matter who you are. It only really matters on your actions and if you directly support bigoted media and not just art from a bigoted person, but usually propaganda. One huge example right now , KZfaq is a terrible company that supports misogyny, ableism, fascist propaganda and spreads misinformation like every other website and yet we continue to support it finically by engaging with it. You will never truly escape supporting something bad because the world is built on living off of companies and corporations and living with the fact that there are people who can and will freely hate you no matter what you do. Awful artists are just the tip of the iceberg. We can never escape being in a moral dilemma.

I cant stand the term problematic. People throw it at things that they just dont like, regardless if the thing actually poses any problems or not. You dont have to like certain things. You arent supposed to like everything. Not everything has to cater to and abide by your tastes, values or morals. If you dont like an artwork, leave it be and go occupy your time with something else. The fact that people go out of their way to search for "problematic" stuff just to stir things up or cause a scene should take away all merit of their opinion on the matter.

Sort of unrelated, but what is Viv accused of? I really live under a rock when it comes to controversy, and that's why I love Celestia. She's so well informed and nuanced!

I like to think everyone has good and bad in them. I do too. Art is where the good part of the person is emphasized. So I don't think it's a problem to enjoy something from someone who we deem bad.

Before getting caught up in Nazi culture, Hitler was a painter. I've seen one of his works and it's really good. I mistook it for a photo the first time I saw it

Kooleen is bad but her art is what gives her fans.Thats Valid,New sub! Nya!

For the most part, I believe in separating art from artist. I think people should be allowed to enjoy whatever art they like, and decide for themselves (and *only* for themselves) how much of the artists views, beliefs and life would affect their view on their work. Policing other people's consumption of non-problematic work is more harmful than good IMO.

I mean, personally, it's quite easy to separate art from the artist once you get into Black Metal.

I relate to this, but more in music Actual example: Friday Night Fever. The oldest version (back in August 2021) had Wee and Wolfie over the Spooky Kids. After SOMETHING I DON'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT Wolfie got removed, irl Wee and Wolfie broke up, the first two songs of week 2 got replaced and we never EVER hear about Wolfie again. But aside from that, I still listen to the song "Legendary". Hey, I CANNOT HELP THE FACT @Foodieti HAS COOKED YET ONCE AGAIN

At the end of the day is up to people to curate the content they consume. If they don't like an artist its up to them to not engage with the work. I also see nothing wrong with speaking your mind if you find someone's behavior detestable but don't go on a crusade or hunt down everyone who chooses to support them.

In my opinoin, I think that people should be aware of what and who the artist is, but still be able to enjoy the art without being a bad person. I may be biased, by enjoying multiple artists that have had problems but I think that I would believe the same even if I did not enjoy them. Also one last thing, people are human and can improve. I know there are many things that can not be forgiven but sometimes someone may be cancelled by a tweet or something they made when they were 14. People can change and be completely different as when they did something problematic. Sometimes the problem is too large for people to forgive but that is why I believe people should be aware of the past or present problem, but then be able to decide on their own without the pressure of feeling like they are a bad person for enjoying the art.

i’m probably getting cancelled for this but good example would be h*tler’s paintings. he was a sadistic subhuman piece of rotting flesh but from what im looking at rn, his art doesn’t reflect his views or at least some of it idk i havent seen all his works, and were in my opinion skillfully made although i don’t support what he did.

my thought (before fully watching this) is that basically... you can seperate the art from the artist but that does not mean you should not think critically about the art. I believe some people use that term like they are saying you can't point out anything problematic about the art at all if people are seperating the art from the artist (either supporting seperating the art or being against it), rather than still looking critically at the art without considering the artist.

As an artist (a writer and someone who's draws) I've came to a conclusion some people would like it and some people would it solo based on what i created. I'm not saying your video is bad you bring up some really good points. Though i do bring up this point as well this is a quote from a movie that art is shows more about the view ,then the artist (about that COVID piece). Though about who it is and it tend to reflect in the work if we separate the artist and the work it shows more about you. But if we don't then it shows more about the artist. So we need to look it in both lens to get more of a clear picture. Just like with a telescope we continue to shift and change depending on the world around us ,so what's to say we can do it with this. It really is depends on the situation. Though on how you feel on it also comes to account ,but don't spread hate for liking something solo based on the artist or even if you don't like. You are yet again spreading the hate that I'm assuming that most are trying to stop.

In my opinion, everyone is technically a terrible and good person, no one is perfect and no one is truly the worst, yes there are bad people but what if a murderer saved a puppy or a kind baker bullied someone as a child. We all do bad things and regardless of what we have done, we should just be the best people we can be and not hate people who do bad things or like bad people. Be yourself and ignore or even be kind to people who have differing opinions from you and maybe if you are kind to even bad people then those bad people will change, or maybe they won't, but either way, try and be your best self not someone else's opinion of a good person.

I'm gonna put my comment here before I watcg and see if we disagree. You can seperate art from the artist if the artist didn't gain anything from said art. If you like someone's work and you buy it, or spread it around and help that artist popularities, it gives the artist power to do things and if said artist is a bad person, they will go on to use the power they've gained to do bad stuff. In contrary some artist are vile person but now their piece got displayed in museum, you could appreciate the art because the artist is long dead, it wouldn't affect them anyway if you like their stuff or not. In that case I say you could seperate the art from the artist. Example, if you really like someone's comic but you know the artist is a *edophile but signed up for their patreon anyway, the artist might use the money they got from the patreon to purchase CP. Or maybe you subscribed to someone's art account purely because you like their painting and as they gained more follower they now use that account to spread harmful information or use their popularity to bully others. In my opinion you can only seperate art from artist if the art are seperated from the artist already. But anyway this question is complicated there are no clean cut yes/no in the first place

"Post Modernist" can never be heard by me without Žižek sniffing in the background

This is the issue I had with Rurouni Kenshin's creator, Nobuhiro Watsuki who was caught with CP and he was very much punished for what happened. I honestly love Rurouni Kenshin for the character's morals over the creator's, which is kind of different, I support the publishing company, VAs and live action actors.

I think another thing that should be discussed is these people attacking artist because they don't like their work, or that they are popular. I myself am an artist albeit not the greatest but I myself am terrified of showing my work because if I become to popular or some people don't like my style people will go out of their way to depict the artist as bad heck even that of things I like can be depicted as I'm a bad person for liking them. or in even more severe cases people have been known to make fake allegations towards someone just to get them canceled, where you get allegations instead of actual proof that said artist did said thing. it is honestly terrifying to me to even want to share my work out of fear others may start a cancel train cuz they don't like my art or get jealous of peoples fame. and can cause people to actually ruin other peoples life over stuff they didn't actually do. I feel this needs to be discussed more especially in the art and artist separation debate because sometimes these allegations aren't even true or are so petty because in all honesty is anyone truly good? and if no one is truly good does that therefore mean no art can be enjoyed and we should ruin a persons life over minor mistakes? I get when there is definitive proof said artist did said thing we shouldn't support but that doesn't stop the discussion of the many many examples of artist who did nothing and are giving false allegations and proof then are destroyed on the internet and what's worse that even though later on it may be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt they didn't do anything no one does anything to fix the mistake of ruining said persons life because usually by then its to late.

Speaking of art contests, I am really sad that I'm terrible at digital art and much better at drawing on paper, (not to say that I don't like drawing on paper, I'm acctually quite happy about what I can do on paper) but I feel so disconnected from almost everyone else because it feels like everyone else is much better at digital art and paper art (except ai, that doesn't count).

It depends on the art. Does the art have anything to do with the reason their disliked (Cp, Racism, homophobia). If the art itself is a separate item, you can like the art without defending what the artist is doing.

Not separating the art from artist is like enabling bullying. We should support people doing better instead of intentionally burying them into the ground. Its like, you get this miracle cure for cancer but you ban it because the creator has one of negative labels that you don't like

It's more important to understand why a work itself is bad than just dropping every single thing deemed bad because of a creator. Obviously, I don't think supporting works that are actively harmful is good and I think that understanding the passive unintentional harm of a work is very important to consider, but you can still enjoy the thing overall while being able to recognize that some of it isn't great. I think the PJO books are really good and fun, even though there's certain elements regarding adhd that I don't like. It's also important to note that I don't like some of those elements because of my own personal experiences, not because they're inherently bad (for context, I have adhd myself and when I found out many years after reading the books I realized the books portrayal of it, the only portrayal I had ever seen in a work, was nothing like what I experienced and had led me to never consider adhd as something I was struggling with, even when I was) So yeah, just understand why something is bad, and try and figure out if it's objectively bad or subjectively bad

There is so much art in so many places that we can't even source where a lot of art comes from. If an artist has done something criminal outside of art then arrest them. If the art itself is criminal, arrest the artist. Otherwise just enjoy the art you enjoy. Then there is also what about the case of repentance, forgiveness, and change. If a former criminal has legitimately turned themself around, they deserve a chance to do so. Keep moral judgements out of art and leave it to the separate systems we have for handling moral judgements, unless the art itself is the problem.