Sex, Death, and Storytelling | Andrew Klavan

Sex, Death, and Storytelling | Andrew Klavan | EP 426

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Dr. Jordan Peterson speaks with author and podcaster Andrew Klavan. They discuss the beauty in the “tough guy with a purpose” archetype that inspired Klavan to write, the loss of idealism in main characters, the eye-rolling anti-realism in media portrayals of young women, and how superhero films have ushered in an era of storytelling devoid of human nature, and why most new stories and adaptations feel deeply empty.
Andrew Klavan is an American podcaster, essayist, and novelist. He has written more than 30 novels since 1977. His podcast, the Andrew Klavan show, has been a staple for years, though Klavan has had other similar shows produced by companies such as Truth Revolt and the Blaze. Klavan has also produced modern “radio plays” for the DW with “Another Kingdom,” which has three seasons. Notably, Klavan was born jewish, but in his adult life converted to Christianity. Andrew grew up as one of four sons in Great Neck, Long island. His father, Gene Klavan, was a NY disc jockey. Andrews 1995 novel, True Crime, was adapted into the hit film by Clint Eastwood. His novel Don’t Say A Word was adapted into a film of the same name starring Michael Douglass. Many of his other works, along with original screenplays, have also been produced.
This episode was recorded on January 18th, 2024
Dr. Peterson's extensive catalog is available now on DailyWire+: bit.ly/3KrWbS8
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For Andrew Klavan:
Watch the Andrew Klavan Show on KZfaq / @andrewklavan
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- Chapters -
(0:00) Tour info 2024
(0:39) Coming up
(1:25) Intro
(3:14) Writing over 30 books
(4:55) Why Klavan and Peterson love Raymond Chandler novels
(5:50) The power problem all young men have to face and solve
(9:02) The mimicry of confidence, how bad men misuse female archetypes
(12:05) The thing about Andrew Tate…
(13:44) The St. George motif in modern storytelling
(15:02) To be taken by a brute
(17:58) How to write a tough guy
(21:55) Pain response and social mediation
(24:31) The virtue that stands above fear
(28:00) The biological necessity of abundant compassion and the mother/father dynamic
(30:51) The interplay of mercy and justice
(31:41) The attributes of Tony Stark, and the state of modern superhero films
(34:40) Fundamental misfire ignoring realities of male and female sexes in media
(38:46) Mary Shelley, are we damaged by immoral action?
(40:06) The two fundamental mating strategies
(42:06) Early sexual experience ramps psychopathy
(43:54) Can you “solve” humanity without removing it?
(47:16) What makes something “real”? Weighing the soul against the body
(50:43) What level of deprivation drives forward momentum?
(54:43) The folly of futurism, purposeful ignorance of the past
(56:09) Noah, what it means to be “wise in your generations”
(1:00:31) What it really means to take God’s name in vain
(1:06:10) Systemic alteration misses the true problem
(1:08:12) Coming to the idea of a moral good through the existence of moral evil
(1:14:55) Personality and identity only exist within a relationship with a grounded being
(1:18:17) When the logic of God became impossible to ignore for Andrew Klavan
(1:26:00) With every talent comes a corresponding impediment
(1:28:22) “I met my wife hitchhiking,” love and the spiritual reality
(1:31:56) God, the need for a father figure, and decoding Freud
(1:35:09) Malevolence is worse than death
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Пікірлер: 610

@snakejazz 4 ай бұрын

Andrew Klaven is one of the most underrated men of wisdom

@Imitatechrist 4 ай бұрын

Agree.

@toseltreps1101 4 ай бұрын

100%

@finnmccool6613 4 ай бұрын

Haven't seen much of him, so my mind could be changed, but too straight laced and "God is the answer to everything" for me

@sarahevans3622 4 ай бұрын

Second that!

@stuartmenziesfarrant 4 ай бұрын

He ain’t no slouch.

@SaphiraTa 4 ай бұрын

Peterson and Klavan are two great minds. Thank you for doing this. Thank you DW for making it happen.

@janeproctor5542 4 ай бұрын

Hey Jordan... You left the pirate off the list of women's fav. Sexual fantasy figures...

@raidzeromatt 4 ай бұрын

@@janeproctor5542 do you think that was intentional or do you think he just forgot? 🤔

@janeproctor5542 4 ай бұрын

I don't know, but he certainly made up for it during the remainder of the interview. It was one long succession of listings of every list of every other list he's ever listed for sake of psychologizing just to prove, I suppose that psychology is the "be all end all" tool for mining the heights and depths and etceteras of all generalizations and generalizing that fits the pattern fit for generalizing for the purpose of making meaning out of the meaning of chaos! If he had only remembered to mention the pirate, maybe he would not have raided the whole of the noire categories of murder and crime for thrilling psychological power points, and actually allowed us to get to know a real author by that person's own account.

@janeproctor5542 4 ай бұрын

Once in a while he is still rapaciously attacked by withdrawal symptoms which turn him onto acting out the devouring piratical father on his captives.

@janeproctor5542 4 ай бұрын

I looked through "Sex, Death, and Storytelling"and I can't find it, so maybe it's been taken out. Considering his animus toward feminists and feminism it may be a way of referencing his own dislike of direct conflict, his high agreeableness; to keep on harping on women's pirate themed or other monster- inspired 🎉literary porn hero fascination. By that logic, Elizabeth Cady Stanton would really get the juices flowing, given her recent portrayal by Jordan's wife and one of her cronies as they, themselves ram their rapiers through her and all of the many male supporters and female support she found among those poor, overly agreeable, conflict-adverse, gullible innocents who fell for her wicked ( probably not so repressed sexual acting out)., as no proper or decently modeled woman would ever have expounded her feminist views on such nasty, misandrist premises, if not. Well it's nice to see that Tammy and friend are not afraid to give full reign to their more disagreeable and conflict loving traits, safe in their fantasy that Jordan will come charging in full throttle to lance the boiling, foaming frothing, feminist- wounded rage and resentment inherited from the dragon-lady, Elizabeth Cady. Makes you wonder just how closely linked sex and anger are linked at the root of things???0:13

@sarahevans3622 4 ай бұрын

These two men are brilliant. Andrew Klavan is my favorite person on daily wire. I admire his humility and the way he can take serious subjects and make them funny.

@KaitlinRoseKnows 4 ай бұрын

This is my first time hearing him! He has wisdom ❤

@juliettesmoon 3 ай бұрын

He’s my fave too

@peachnehi7340 4 ай бұрын

Andrew’s recent books “The Great Good Thing” and “Truth and Beauty” are truly inspiring and deeply moving.

@hubrisnaut 4 ай бұрын

Can we get Andrew and Jordan having a conversation once a month? This is compelling. It blows my mind when they speak about characters and philosophy that I have grappled with. It feels crazy, I have been a good and sometimes mean person. I am tormented when I consider myself. The way out for mr is I accepted the world. I found desire was a 'tough road'.

@parsonk4041 4 ай бұрын

Treat people the way you want to be treated.

@BeeGirl316 4 ай бұрын

I second that request

@wingedinfinity6715 4 ай бұрын

@@parsonk4041Subconsciously many of us don't treat our own selves kind. The subconscious is what drives us. So true self love is necessary before we can treat others kindly.

@HowieAnimations 4 ай бұрын

No way

@HowieAnimations 4 ай бұрын

Your not being top comment

@emoney9449 4 ай бұрын

Andrew Klavan is new to me, but I love the concepts he suggested in this discussion. I’m a new fan and am very grateful for this meeting. Thank you JP.

@michaelcunliffe31 2 ай бұрын

“I feel hunky-dunky, life is tickety-boo!…” Klavan is a god amongst men

@pauldenapoli3494 4 ай бұрын

JP should get an award for these podcast videos, they are the best..I look forward to about 3 a week

@thefelper.7181 4 ай бұрын

A luxurious banquet for the mind and soul. That's what a conversation between these two good men is. 🙏🏻 Thank you very much Jordan Peterson, Andrew Klavan and DW for sharing! It was amazing.

@Mookeals 4 ай бұрын

While watching them having thoughtful conversation, it gives me an insights of the importance of having a good and healthy relationships. Specially when you are getting older and need to share something like this kind of analytical conversations.

@edvinhindersson5993 4 ай бұрын

Andrew Klavan has become over the years my favourite author and also DailyWire host. He really is very wise, of course that's not a surprise since he's been around forever. On top of all that he also has a great sense of humour. Thanks for having him on the podcast Peterson!

@audreybee2410 4 ай бұрын

Jordan, I made an art piece with you. You were a crouched down beside me on a wet empty and dimly lit street. You were a doctor using KZfaq as a heart deliberator to restart my heart and wake up me from sleeping. Bishop Barron was there under a street light praying for me. And Tammy was holding my young son. Thank you for everything. I can't wait to see you in Columbus on Sunday!

@heavymetalmusichead4969 4 ай бұрын

Andrew Klavan is one of my favorite contemporary voices. He's incredibly intelligent and deeply insightful. Klavan, more than any other contemporary thinker has helped shaped my thinking and understanding of life.

@ghostfox3560 4 ай бұрын

This is hopefully the first of many conversations where I see the two strongest characters I think I can learn a lot from. Thank you for the chance to listen to two wonderful people discuss powerful subjects.

@jeremyogrizovich3247 4 ай бұрын

This should be required watching for all girls over the age of 15.

@coolstuff5511 4 ай бұрын

I enjoyed listening to the Jordan B. Peterson Podcast episode with Andrew Klavan, where they explored the role of storytelling in shaping our values, morals, and identities. They discussed how stories can reveal the truth about human nature, the complexity of moral choices, and the consequences of our actions. They also criticized the current trend of superhero movies and woke narratives that ignore the reality of human flaws and conflicts, and instead promote a simplistic and unrealistic view of the world. I think this episode was very insightful and stimulating, as it challenged me to think more deeply about the stories I consume and create, and how they affect my worldview and behavior.

@carolineweetman8051 4 ай бұрын

Comforted during these transitional times of minds and hearts such as Mr Peterson's and Mr Klavan.

@triplea657aaa 4 ай бұрын

The 2 reasons I'm a DW sub in an interview? I am ready for this!

@MsSweetlandofliberty 4 ай бұрын

I just read Andrew Klavan’s book, “The Great Good Thing”. It is so well written and compelling I could hardly put it down. Highly recommend!

@derek1mg1 4 ай бұрын

I've been waiting for this for so, so long. Klavan and Peterson, the top two thinkers of our time. This needs to be a regular conversation. Hail Lobster, Hail Lord Klavan!

@BIBLE-UNBUTCHERED 4 ай бұрын

Outstanding Dr Peterson. Andrew Klavin - the quiet achiever

@Zatvornik 4 ай бұрын

Now that’s a conversation I’ve been waiting for! Everything in our world is a story, and best storyteller wins...

@aaronmcneal1698 4 ай бұрын

Dr. Jordan Peterson, through my fiance and I watching your channel we have recognized that I needed to seek therapy for childhood trauma and other cptsd issues as well as my avoidant attachment behaviorists, and I just wanted to say you for helping her see this, and show me so i could understand. I'm now seeing a therapist and working in the Shadow work Journal and it's helping me a lot. You also are credited in saving my relationship. Thank you from the deepest parts of my heart

@rednikki9 4 ай бұрын

That's awesome you are going to therapy! So am I for anxiety. Just don't let them tell you that you are a man trapped and a woman's body! In my neck of the woods, that is a real fear from what you get out of psychologist.

@parsonk4041 4 ай бұрын

You honestly believe you can become convinced to be another gender by a psychologist? Don't you think this is a bit far fetched. You would probably notice if they would try I would think.

@rednikki9 4 ай бұрын

@@parsonk4041 Yes, you can absolutely brainwash vulnerable children. Big pharma is profiting, that's for sure. Ever hear of the medieval dancing plague? That was supposedly a social contagion as well as this whole trans thing. Yes there are real transsexuals, and they deserve the rights of everyone else. However, children should not be put in a place to decide whether they will be sterile for life, develop a micropenis, not have their brains develop fully on puberty lockers, are put on the path to sex change surgery at an early age, are able to give consent for double mastectomies. How on earth can you support the crazy trans activists?

@rednikki9 4 ай бұрын

@@parsonk4041 You honestly think children should have the right to decide sex change surgeries, which are irreversible, and which are basically treating children as guinea pigs during their surgery? A lot of these surgeries result in horrific side effects. Cross sex hormones and puberty blockers definitely create horrible effects.

@joshsims7286 4 ай бұрын

Thank you, Jordan, for saying you have to say when you have to say it. You are changing the world for the better. One man is changing the world. That is so inspiring.

@ColburnFreml 4 ай бұрын

Boy was I enjoying this one, but dropping the reference to Patrick O'Brian's Aubrey-Maturin series was a cherry on top. I really owe a lot to those books and how they let me see real leadership playout for the good and bad with Jack. And the weight of many of the deceptions in the spy threads of the novels really woke me from some naïve thinking in my youth.

@sbg4ever120 4 ай бұрын

You two both have the incredible gift of making the deepest thoughts easy to understand. You both have an anointing that is powerful. You make the best arguments for morality in a world and culture rejecting absolute truth in such a mighty way. God bless you both! Thank you for this interview. Please do more! ❤️🙏

@andromedayuyi9845 4 ай бұрын

One of your best interviews EVER. In the top 3, definitely

@billandpech 4 ай бұрын

Klavian says he "hates" Ayn Rand because her protagonists just pursue power and wealth. It's the exact opposite! Her villains pursue power and wealth ,and her heroes pursue happiness by creating real wealth and beauty as monuments to the genius of Mankind.

@joysanders59 4 ай бұрын

I won’t be able to come, I wish I could but am disabled with an old car… I always wish the best for you. And yours. Prayers!!

@zoltanrudolf 4 ай бұрын

I have been waiting a long time for this conversation from the two elder statesmen of DW!

@TheKitty1952 4 ай бұрын

Joyful conversation...thank you both.

@josh10722 4 ай бұрын

Love Andrew and Jordan, pleased to see this episode released. Looking forward to watching now!

@TheHornet79 4 ай бұрын

129.30 I always love his love story about his wife. I hope I find a partner where it feels like everything is connecting in a spiritual level like Klavan.

@MrLocokrang 4 ай бұрын

Great talk sirs, keep doing the hero/villian archetypes from Marvel and Star Wars universe, and you'll have me coming back each time. It is so underrated how these stories teach young men moral virtues, brilliant

@caioschiefer 4 ай бұрын

Finally! I was waiting for this one a long time. Liking it before even watching it 😂

@midwestgirl3298 4 ай бұрын

I just met you tonight Dr Peterson!! It was an honor. You were so kind. Now I can’t sleep and I have to get up very early tomorrow. Oh well… 😁 Love you

@midwestgirl3298 4 ай бұрын

I felt he was very aware that people meeting him were nervous so he made sure to be very gentle and warm, asking everybody their names, actually listening… Enjoy!

@adrianstumpp5883 4 ай бұрын

Klavan's reference to Frankenstein reminds me of Paracelsus and his writings on the alchemical homonculus. Part of what drove Paracelsus' critics was accusations that the homonculus was blasphemous because it was an attempt to create a human being without the necessity of a woman.

@Arjun-eb1yc 4 ай бұрын

People are so much more interesting when they are not talking politics.

@autumnleaves2766 4 ай бұрын

Superb discussion, thought-provoking as ever. How lucky we are to have content of this quality available to all on here. Thanks to Dr Peterson and Andrew Klavan, much appreciated.

@Aaron.Reichert 4 ай бұрын

I'm going to listen on Spotify but I came to KZfaq so I can like and comment.

@user-xx3to8fb3d 4 ай бұрын

more of a statement than a comment on the video. thanks for sharing,

@johnmartin4152 4 ай бұрын

It was quite the good thing to see the two of you discussing these matters together. Thanks. Minor comic book history point: In the mid-80s when the writer and artist Bob Layton did his work on the character, it did have good sales and the character did garner media attention for the alcoholism plot. So, the character from that era is very much the template for the movie version of Tony Stark/Iron Man.

@tamiressoares9303 3 ай бұрын

I’m a 23 year old girl from Brazil and I don’t know how I got here, but I love it here ❤❤ may God Bless you two and thank you for sharing this wonderful news with us

@kaylavanderbilt4072 Ай бұрын

Andrew Klavan is one of my favorite authors and people on KZfaq. He’s brilliant and has a great heart, so does Jordan Peterson. Dynamic duo here, glad this video was made ❤

@waynejones7825 4 ай бұрын

You can see his passion for his craft in his expression! It's palpable! He's truly blessed to have found his calling!!! And amazing interview as always!!! Or rather conversation!

@lynnedavidson4772 2 ай бұрын

Fascinating. After decades of counseling, I've finally run across a therapist who's taken the time to read the stories I wrote in my teens and early twenties. His interest in my stories opened the door to gradually discussing where the thoughts and feelings came from. Stories are just memories dressed in presentability.

@EpicGeopolitics 4 ай бұрын

This has been my favourite ever episode of the JBP podcast. As someone who writes stories i'd love to have Andrew return. I think there's so much more the two of you could discuss!!!

@stuartmenziesfarrant 4 ай бұрын

Thank you gentelmen. These type of discussions are important.

@natakismith-ganzer7425 4 ай бұрын

I enjoyed every.single.minute. of this conversation. Fantastic!

@PlateArmorUnderwear 4 ай бұрын

Klavan’s waking-up story on One for Israel is one of the best testimonies I’ve seen.

@kevinmarchand4196 2 ай бұрын

How come this doesn’t even have 200,000 views??? Andrew is amazing

@milatredoux9621 4 ай бұрын

This is exactly the kind of conversation that I can listen to on repeat, 24/7. I truly think that the wisdom contained in each sentence can be life altering. Thank you DW, for this amazing conversation, and I hope to see more interactions between these 2 very wise men in the future.

@marchess286 4 ай бұрын

Great episode, but I have one critique, Regarding the Sopranos, while Tony was seen as admirable and attractive by various characters, and there was the possibility that he might repent, by the end of the series it was clear that he would not repent and was a monster.

@sanniepstein4835 4 ай бұрын

His mother was amazing. Truly crazy ppl are hard to depict, and that was one of the few times I've seen it done convincingly.

@gregsorrell 4 ай бұрын

Two genuine men of wisdom

@Klavieralter 2 ай бұрын

This dialogue should be a book. There are so many moments I would like to underline and return to. The conversation, essentially, deserves to be on a bookshelf with the writers they discuss.

@IrvingSerrano-rl3iu 4 ай бұрын

This was great. Thank you for this conversation.

@kingrobbie1793 4 ай бұрын

Fredric Chopin No.2inE-Flat Major, that is the absolute elegance of Dr. Peterson’s unbridled passion.

@SanctifyinTruth 4 ай бұрын

Great conversation, expected nothing less. The things Jordan talks about can’t be faked, there are no side but the pursuit of the truth. What a gem!

@Toddytoad7 4 ай бұрын

We love you DR.JORDAN

@tim2muntu954 4 ай бұрын

“You are right in speaking of the moral foundations of science, but you cannot turn around and speak of the scientific foundations of morality.” ― Albert Einstein

@katavarszegi1566 4 ай бұрын

I've been waiting so long for this conversation!

@AdamWrightReviews 4 ай бұрын

Been waiting a very long time for this conversation. Thank you.

@MrWeebable 4 ай бұрын

51:50 What bothers me about so many current discussions on sex and culture and politcs etc is that 'every thing is for something else'. Which is a way of saying nothing is inherently valuable. Pick any activity and you'll get an explanation of the value of the activity purely in terms of its use for something else. Gym = for physique = for attracting a mate = procreation = for continuation of the human species = for what? What's the gain? In all that? What if some activities and states are inherently valuable? I like climbing because I like climbing. It's also a useful skill sometimes, and it helps build and maintain muscle etc. But I do it ultimately because for some reason I enjoy it, it resonates in my soul. What if many things in our lifes were like that?

@wft15 4 ай бұрын

Literally, not everything is that deep!

@jacobgood1309 4 ай бұрын

Two of my absolute heroes! You guys are the real deal! Also, I believe this is episode 426 not 226 👍.

@natalien.9528 3 ай бұрын

Wow I was just casually listening in "on the side" but this one was really deep! Loved the conversation!

@brentdillon7406 4 ай бұрын

Looking forward to seeing you tonight in Wichita Kansas thanks for coming we appreciate it!!!!!!

@codywilson8453 4 ай бұрын

Saw him speak in Omaha. Absolutely amazing!

@johnbrown4568 4 ай бұрын

Thank you for posting this wonderful discussion.

@templeofbalance 4 ай бұрын

I find these sorts of conversations so compelling. Thank you.

@auntieb3621 4 ай бұрын

I love both these men. When I listen to them I feel much better about life and my own way of seeing things and analyzing the experience.❤

@strangetheology 4 ай бұрын

Story is a container for transporting knowledge in its most condensed form. I thought I’d take a crack at answering the question.

@strangetheology 4 ай бұрын

A great story has a near infinite capacity to inform the mind and soul over time.

@Xargxes 4 ай бұрын

Klavan is so underrated. He's by far my favourite from among the DW guys... And that's coming from a catholic!

@carolspencer6915 4 ай бұрын

Good morning Jordan and Andrew Truly grateful for this, now pretty much regular, given all circumstances considered. My go to, sanity sensemaking brain gym. In these real tough, difficult but learnerd times. Truly grateful, indeed. Thankyou. 💜

@hubrisnaut 4 ай бұрын

This is a very good conversation. I won't go into my thoughts in writing here because they will be deleted.

@lucy-jaynebloomer-davies4903 3 ай бұрын

Phenomenal discussion…so many layers. Would love to see more artists talking it out with Dr. Peterson, the combination seems to bring about some truly magical moments 👏👏👏

@fura21 4 ай бұрын

We need Dr Peterson videos analazing heroes/ super heroes from movies like he did with disney movies in the past 🙏

@wethepeeps25 4 ай бұрын

I LOVE Andrew Klavan-he’s my favorite at the Dailywire ❤️

@wheelzwheela 4 ай бұрын

I never get tired of listening to Klavan. I find Klavan himself better than his books though.

@richardc3044 4 ай бұрын

Fascinating discussion,thank you both ,gentlemen .

@nwsanagnwsths 4 ай бұрын

First time I saw a discussion with Peterson and it kept my interest to the end😮!!

@kimberlyaddis6194 4 ай бұрын

I love these gentlemen! Intelligent and so well-spoken! I love listening to them and reading their works.

@edshipman8814 4 ай бұрын

This was awesome. Thank you both. God bless

@IndagatorAD4 4 ай бұрын

Brilliant conversation, thank you. God speed and good journey!

@218philip 4 ай бұрын

@@DuncanChristopher-ek5vn. God is always here.

@sandracadena8999 2 ай бұрын

I absolutely looooooved listening to mister Klavan. I just wish JP hadn´t interrupted some parts where he has talking about very personal things.... thats all!!!!!... thanks for this interview. Amazing!

@GenXfrom75 4 ай бұрын

I love these two. My favorite DW personalities. I’m excited to watch this! ❤

@caswellthompson6432 4 ай бұрын

This was one of the most interesting conversations I've listened to

@taylorjade3602 4 ай бұрын

I am absolutely in love with Dr. Peterson's wardrobe. That jacket is pure class!

@bobboberson7874 4 ай бұрын

great podcast. probably need to listen a couple more times to understand all of it

@nochancemovie7367 4 ай бұрын

Very good interview. What a pleasure it would be for me to talk with Peterson like this one day. Good info on story and lives. Much of my journey was iterated here. Thank you.

@Luke-kn9pi 4 ай бұрын

More people need to listen to Andrew Klavan

@JullianRoman 4 ай бұрын

Inspiring! Delightful conversation! Thank you guys!

@dannypoppymathis 4 ай бұрын

Excellent conversation! Thank You!

@user-qg9th1rn2j 4 ай бұрын

Tragic, comedic, lovely, sour, sweet, painful, weak, tough, adventurous, spiritual.... worth a billion, no doubt.

@j.lyonslonglivethefighters7495 4 ай бұрын

Incredible, so much practical wisdom. Thank God.

@betbuk 4 ай бұрын

This was a brilliant convo, but the last half hour on Daily Wire is even better. The key to a Saving Grace is framing and submission. This allows you to see beauty and experience joy. I think that it is also a gift of God, so that none can boast. I want to hear more convos with JBP and AK...