Reuben Ah Sam that’s how it’s done in America the pirating organization. Illegal military invasion and occupation, America the Master treaty breaker, sanctioning any other country that wants to honor Law and Legal binding treaties. Understand Conversion of lies into rhetoric of justification.

Reuben Ah Sam, why do you break the Hawaiian kings’ law that outlawed idol worship, including Mauna Kea.

What is a terrascope?

It is not our judicial system. False image. We, have not come together, and created our own systems. Yet.

@@thesource479 Not your judicial system? Cool. Then it's not your education system, or your welfare system, or your police, fire and rescue either...see how that works? I'm a.o.k. with taking everything away from you,...I mean if you reject the courts. How about we just let Russia come and wipe you all out and rip up the islands for rhodium? Sound good? Good.

Oahu Girl Friday There is no decision. Sacred is sacred. No man (or woman) can use little minds to act as God, Sacred is sacred. Done. It’s an absolute.

@@thesource479 When exactly did it become "sacred"? Was it sacred when the Tahitians colonized, marauder, killed, raped and tortured the Marquesans? Was it sacred before anyone ever came? Lmao. "Sacred" Typing "lol" doesn't do it enough justice.

media.giphy.com/media/uVP9uBjJbQaFW/giphy.gif

Sadly, unfavorable themes in history do seem to be repeating themselves lately.

It's not the same. This is about indigenous ways of life which is beyond religion.

@@a.e.rromero5403 you are so right, they can even be endemic to the region, like many other indigenous plants. I'll give you, an example the 'ohia tree' not taken care of they could be threatened, with extinction.

As opposed to ignorance?

What money? if anyone is making it is the locals who will perish from job opportunity.

Let's build it in Europe, JUST DO IT THERE!!!!

@@jahz7087 well it's being funded by Canada so we should actually replace their maple trees with TMT

There are Sacred lands in the Canaries too!! What is of Guanche?They too died like flies from disease from Spanish conquest as well.Consider that Option. No telescope there either !

@@williamdrummond18 you're right and when I learned that I changed my views. Canary islands should not be touched by TMT either so since Canada wants it, Canada should make space there for it

@@williamdrummond18 the guanches were slaughtered by the Spanish in the 15th.Centuary. tgey are not going to complain.

Actually, a comment like yours - a strong opinion with zero supporting argument - is MUCH dumber...

Yes my ancestors were the greatest navigators ever on the planet. But they did not desecrate our highest temple

Tablature Butler, my ancestors were the best celestial navigators and so are a couple of my relatives right now. However they would never desecrate the most highest realm of God at the summit of Mauna a Wakea. Yes, Wakea aka "Sky Father" is close to the realm of the Gods atop Mauna a Wakea. It doesn't matter what you think, it only matters that this is Hawaii and this is what many Kanaka Maoli believe. The reason why nothing has ever been developed before I was born for many generations on the mountains is because they're sacred, it's always been known to be. Even the snows of Poliahu is sacred and should not be removed for waste. Waiau is healing waters. My ancestors may curse these people for the mercury and toxic leaks on the sacred mauna, that is proven to be the islands main aquifer (Water Is Life!). Maybe erupt... hmm.. maybe that will clean up the DU at Pohakuloa that the US government has destroyed, DU has a half life of 14 billion years. The only way to clean that shit up might be for Pele to erupt over Pohakuloa that is 5x the area of the entire island of Kahoolawe that is totally destroyed by the military, they cracked the water table there and ordnance is still not cleaned and won't be any time soon.

There are many reasons not to build another damn telescope up there. If anything they should break one that's obsolete and build over it. One reason that shouldn't be considered though is mythical gods. Pele, Maui (No Ka oi), and others are the same as Greek mythical Gods. Hawaiians past and present realizes this and found Christ.

Fuck you.

Boblarson stupid Haole!!! 👊🏽🤬

@@kegs5556 take your science and go to the Canary islands and take your telescope with you 🙊🙊

@@patrickgambsky6290 Fuck you.

It's a good thing. Galileo didn't listen to the Catholic church

Ignorant response

@@starseed68 did you mean to say ignorant comment? Because technically you responded.

@@AnubisSolvang actually NO.

@@AnubisSolvang dont bother. These plebs dont even know how to speak. Then they'll tell you how it's white mans fault they didn't bother to read or study for themselves. 🤣🤦‍♂️

@@djstrongarmgmail I give up already, it would have been great for our economy here in Hawaii but nope, dumb people wanna stay dumb. Humanity as a whole will continue to further its knowledge and advance while the ignorant will stay ignorant. Sadly the majority of humanity is extremely dumb.

Yeah they're gonna build it despite the protests, and it will break down in 4 years or become obsolete in 4 years.

@@kama3759 ..hopefully they won't, and they decide to go to Spain.

@@cndvd I wish they would. But from what I heard, they can't back down because they already took money offered from TMT and spent it on the railway in Honolulu. Ige already sold us out. If that's true, thats fucked up.

@Sage Hiker ....You just answered the question about why "the Hawaiians" are "protecting" the mountain. Think about it.

@Sage Hiker . Yes you said the answer. Just think about what you are saying. Keep repeating what you are saying over and over and over. It will come to you . You are absolutely correct... the mountain called ...Mauna Kea will never know or care about YOU , ME or ANY of the HAWAIIANS, so why protect it ....or..... why "protect" it ? That's funny though....you speak as if you are the mountain...like you are "defending" it...but you are I know you like minimizing it. Guess what the mountain don't give a shit what YOU think ..and what your thoughts are...YOU are insignificant to it......so you are on the right track. Just get a little bit smarter and you will know really why the Hawaiians are "protecting" it. The land you are standing on don't care about you either, it will never know you existed, it don't need you standing on it, it won't need you in the present or the future.

You mean haole.

That would be Dr. Paul Coleman, the FIRST Native Hawaiian to earn a doctorate in astrophysics. Mahalo for your contributions to science and for your love of Hawaii, Dr. Coleman. May you rest in peace.

@@bullyboy131 lol yeah Hauole

So you have to sound pidgin to be Hawaiian? Pretty sure that a negative 🤣

Went back to see and hear what she actually said, she said: desecration not decoration. You get stink ear.

@@vp3970 it’s called a typo…ie; “auto-incorrect” on my phone. Still same question: WTF does “desiccation is not education” even mean? Etc !

You are wrong or short on a useful and unstoppable paradigm in humanity's development. (I say this respectfully). I believe science and culture and if need be religions too, can co-exist. The future belongs to the kids if today and they are changing and seeing the importance of science whether we see it or not. Whether we like it or not they will bring about change and will and are embracing science. It saddens me to see you are being short-sighted when saying or implying the kids in Hawaii should not dream Big and white sands and tourism should suffice. I LOVE Hawaii and Hawaiian people through my possibly hundreds of trips and stays over there as a 3 decade transplant Californian, World wide worker-traveler born outside the United States and have many friends in HI who are fighting for awareness of Hawaiians' cultural struggles as well. I know both sides and points of views. I can clearly say this that embracing science and development, especially better education is VERY IMPORTANT and almost like a salvation that needs to be embraced by ALL of humanity. With pandemics like CoronaVirus you can already see how fragile tourism based economies can be. Also HI how wonderful would it be if HI develops specific educational and scientific strengths as well as pineapples and touristic beauties. The future is unstoppable so is development. How nice would it be if HI becomes a scientific powerhouse with it's kids turning into indigenous scientists, on the road to MARS and the MOON or even mining the astroids or space rocks. Look at other previously less developed or emerging nations and markets, they all came out ahead because they learned to balance science and cultural and religious beliefs, but embraced science and became experts in something useful for the future. Development is a tidal wave that all of HI people should learn to ride and use it to it's benefit. Mr. Ha is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.. Let us face it all environmental studies also indicate there are no impacts on top. With much love and respect, I think you should reconsider for the sake of our future and kids futures.

I thank you for being rational and giving the benefit of the doubt.

Bad analogy.

Lana’i and Ni’ihau were sold by Ali way way back in the day. Sold to haoles

Elizabeth Sinclair purchased it from King Kamehameha V in 1864… so if it’s okay with Hawaii’s King at the time… who are you to say otherwise? You fall into that trap of looking at past historical events looking through the lenses of 21st Century eyes! Race is everything to racist’s!

@@kehenabeach4418 First of all you need to shut your mouth, this is not your kuleana. Second you are mahaoi like the haole you are. Third back in the day was the king and not too long after Kamehameha 5 we began electing our Monarchs, today we run the show and you get no say, so hamau kou waha. Aina Hawaii not for sale it’s for my grandchildren.

Mark Miller 👍🏾

Is it 65yrs PER SCOPE? if it is? A new one will pop up... jus saying. And as Sista was saying. Those scopes aren't paying rent into DHHL. Again Hawaiians RIPPED OFF. and all for MONEY. SELLING OUT OUR CULTURE. MONEY THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL nothing to the betterment of our People.

@@venaz12009 So, what are YOU doing for the "betterment of our people"? Name ONE thing. You go clean up garbage on the beach? You raise money and donate it to organizations that feed homeless Hasaiians? You volunteer at ANYTHING? You working with locals to help get people off the fucking ice? You doing ANYTHING besides complaining? And by "our people" you mean everyone who lives on the islands, right? Or just brown people with mixed Polynesian blood?

How holy is it if people didn't protest the other telescopes? How holy is it that no ones doing anything about people littering, and actual desecration that does in fact go on? "This protest (thank you for calling it what it is) is not about the telescope, it is against further telescopes on Mauna Kea." Ummm, I'm pretty sure they are protesting THIS telescope. Lol. Since, logically there arent any other telescopes being proposed...am I missing something? Lol. And, sorry but even of your assertion is incorrect and they ARE protesting the telescope (which they are) you just completely contradicted yourself. Do you really not see that? "This protest is not about the telescope, it is against further telescopes on Mauna Kea." Are you picking up what I'm putting down? Further telescopes...like this one...so, yeah,...this is entirely about the TMT. 🤦‍♂️

The lense has nothing to do with the amount of light that can be collected both with a 30 meter dish, and the lack of light on the mountain.

David Armstrong ...then make it three feet across... Your point doesn’t negate the given claim...

@@72marshflower15 dude are you high? The terrascope is an IDEA. An IDEA. One that isn't reality as of yet. It's a great idea. No challenge there. But, again...a LENSE (which focuses) has NOTHING TO DO with SENSOR (which collects light) and AGAIN has nothing to do with the lack of light needed to see into deep space. YOUR "point" if you can even call it that, is at this time pure speculation and absolutely negates any validity to your own spurious claim.

David Armstrong ...you brought up a counter to a point I never made, so your responses are... fruitless.. I never said anything about the about of light a lense can or can’t take in... Why would a lense have anything to do with the lack of light on a mountain? That wasn’t even the point. You only bring up peripheral claims to gaslight the conversation... Your assertions don’t negate the original point given that you’re assertions literally don’t address the point given, but instead aim for a claim I never made... Seems you jus like to argue... Take care now...

@@72marshflower15 your initial comment talked about atmosphere as a lense. The TMT isn't powerful because of a lense. It is because of it's ABILITY TO COLLECT LIGHT. And thus Mauna Kea being the best place for that...because of the LACK OF LIGHT. Your claim is that "TMT is DOA" comparing it to technology THAT ISN'T EVEN A REALITY YET. Fuckig idiot. You WOULD be against TMT, with an extreme lack of basic understanding of just about everything, including what gaslighting actually is. I'm very sorry you weren't allowed access to the kind of education that would have actually helped your brain.

Wow. Way to set everything back a few thousand years. Geocentric model has thoroughly been proven as false. "Wheel in the sky"? "Tower of Babyl"? Are you having a stroke?

Only a small amount of people here in Hawaii are against building the TMT. Most of us are on the side of science.

none living things must depend on living things period! that's science.

It I the MAJORITY who oppose TMT

You're putting faith in bad technology....telescopes on a mountain is NOT modern technology no matter "the latest and greatest". "Science" you are fooling yourself. Wake up.

Not stopping science. We are stopping the desecration of our sacred mauna. Plan B is to build on the Canary Islands. Build it there. Nobody will stop TMT from going there

xonage2 your an idiot

This response is weak and ignorant, wake up

@@starseed68 at least it was more than a one sentence attack...like the amazing contribution you made...

@@allblind8088 it's "you're" as in "you are" I wonder if the irony of calling someone an idiot, while not knowing the difference, is wasted on you?

Disrespectful comment. Take your tanks and your navy that poisons our water and go the fuck to Guam because the majority of kanaka wants your head.

Perhaps not to you. But to other people, it means a lot.

@Stargazer H I agree with you on this topic.

@@adamlevy8971 The sacredness of the Aztec's rituals meant much to them when they were sacrificing innocent children and adults at the top of their pyramids, that was not sacredness, it was a strong delusion. To those other people where so-called sacredness means a lot to them, they are deluding themselves, and this is why the empirical sciences and freethought need to be more widespread. Some of those native Hawaiians hold so much respect and tolerance to parasitic and negative memes that have been passed down by their ancestors, some of them being ignorant, gullible and fearful, these primitive ideas and traditions have survived as parasites to the human minds that keep them in preservation. The memeplex that makes up the native Hawaiian religion is primitive and useless, it needs to be eradicated.

xonage2 or scrap for it their best vs ours

@M W pretty sure what you're doing is called "projecting." In reality, the only people spewing ignorance, or anything else, are people against TMT. And it really doesnt take much of a nudge to get anyone involved to show just how racist and nationalistic they truly are.

@M W do you get paid to be the poster child of abject ignorance, or is it something you do voluntarily? People against TMT are not just stuck in the past about superstition, they're also stuck in the past regarding how the other telescope project have been handled. You're so paranoid and nationalistic that you wouldn't believe actual data and fact based science if it were presented by educated Hwwaaians with no bias or money driven agenda...like a University...oh, wait...🤦‍♂️

@M W I know all about desecration buddy. Where were you when ACTUAL sacred sites like the Heiaus of Haleiwa were being desecrated? Couldnt be bothered then I guess. That wasn't a big enough format to push for racist, nationalistic sovereignty.

So you're a bitch on the inside and a racist bucket of shit on the outside?

What?

What?

Put it on Mt Rushmore 😅 oops Rushmore is own by our cousins The first people of America

can you live without land?

@@mr.chuuktruetells6571 yes actually, the international space station is constantly studying that.

Yeah, facts and logical information not based on superstition and bullshit, can be such a burden, eh?

They are removing 5 of them. It's in the agreement to have 5 removed by the time the new telescope is completed.

@@AnubisSolvang they said that 5 years ago..still there

@@judithwood451 you kind of need access to the site and equipment to dismantle them.

@@AnubisSolvang 🤣🤦‍♂️

You're putting faith in bad technology....telescopes on a mountain is NOT modern technology no matter "the latest and greatest". "Science" you are fooling yourself.

He would slap their fuckin headz

All I know is if we can't keep our homestead lands in pristine shape..thats part of the problem... We have to point at our own people for not walking the walk too... We can't be hypocritical and blame others all the time

Oahu Girl Friday There’s no reason to blame “our own people”.. This healing process has been in progress, since trauma was inflicted upon these perfect beings. In fact, the greatest shift you will see, will be in this lifetime.. as all locals go into deeper and deeper healing, together.

No we should always look at ourselves and our people... Constantly pointing gets our people no where... We are not victims we are empowered natives... And what happens from this point is in our hands and how we are accountable.. To constantly blame is not our way and should not be our way now. Lets look at how we care for our aina and homestead... Smh

Oahu Girl Friday 100% agree.

+Dono Drawesome The real world? I wonder what you are smoking?

Believe in whatever you want, as soon as you think it has some kind of authority over ANYONE else, youre in dreamland.

+Dono Drawesome TMT lost their permit.

DISRESPECTING MOTHER EARTH! YOU WILL LEARN THE HARD WAY! THAT'S ALL.

anon wow, what an asshole; I’d like to punch you in the face. Lmk where for find you

A telescope is a collector, it does not emit anything. I'm tired of hearing lies, if you're going to state your opposition is filthy liars then you need to be better than that.

They call it a laser guide star to calibrate before each viewing. Are you replying to me? Filthy liars?

You obviously have no idea what you're even talking about. What,...you think its going to be like that scene from Lord of the Rings, when the giant green evil light shoots out of the evil castle? 🤦‍♂️

And you're playing the ignorant, emotional, irrational card. One at a time, please.

So, you're donating to feed people then? Will I see you down at the shelter serving food? You start a go fund me for the homeless or impoverished? Didn't think so.

@@djstrongarmgmail wat u talking about. Its about the state (DHHL) leased that piece of land for $1.00. All the while desecrating the land. I WISH I WAS ON THE BIG ISLAND I WOULD BE CAMPING OUT W THE KUPUNA's. Serving them, taking care of the Elders. So watch urself buddy. The hawaiians nuha, w all the land WHY isnt DHHL NOT putting the People on the land. Again it's all about the KALA. Why DHHL don't have kala for the big island. Where is the kala/ rental lease goin from the mall in Panaewa? Why is it theres no report for the Hawaiians to look at, kala made from these leased propertt?

@@venaz12009 you seem to be communicating in some English hybrid of unknown origin...so I'll do my best with what you've given me to work with in that wildly incoherent, meandering menagerie of 20 different points that dont even come close to addressing any of the issues. #1 you aren't my buddy/pal/friend. #2 "I would be there" yeah, but you're not, so shut the fuck up. #3 "watch urself buddy" along with shutting the fuck up, you should sit the fuck down, also. Please, keep giving me reason to continue to call and write congress DAILY to have real leadership set in the islands, and stand up to coward, racist, superstitious BULLIES, pushing lies and a completely false narrative.

@@venaz12009 Final verdict by the courts and anyone that isn't a pure racist: there's no desecration. Protesters have done nothing but spread lies and conflate numerous issues. Protesters are breaking the law and soon will be subject to the consequences. Question: was the Mauna sacred before or only after the Tahitians invaded, colonized, conquered, and displaced the existing population?

+bandrukesucks Easier said than done.

Yeah. Much easier said than done.

They addressed that question in the interview..

Mountains should wait until they're adults to get high...

There are also a great many Hawaiians who are too proud to act like perpetual victims,...that work hard at getting an education, so they can actually contribute to making life better for ALL islanders (not just the ones with brown skin) and are absolutely pushing for TMT to be built.

Who are the two that look haole? Is it the two men on the left?

I'm hawaiian and I don't consider building another telescope to be desecration, I consider it exploration, not unlike our early ancestors that looked to the stars. I do not pick and choose what to follow, as a religion, from our past. There can be a respect for our culture and and our past without time-freezing our economy and education in the 60s-70s. As citizen of Hawaii and America, when laws are subjugated by a vocal minority when the outcome of legal means don't go their way is troubling to very fabric of society. I question if that isn't the actual goal. As to religious significance, I take offense to those that warp history and feign piety to make political gains. Other than the lack of reason with the anti-tmt debate, the ugly reinventing of our past and culture upsets me deeply.

It has been approved!

V P 🙏🏽

Hahaha Oh unko. Exactly why we never gona transfer to those stars. Can't eat it, can't drink it, can't breathe on those stars. The kids like fly to the moon, go college n learn on the mainland.

VenaZ You sound like you’re young and practical. Keep spreading the word. Our honua first. 🌺 unko

If you can't reasonably deduce just how beneficial the moon landings were...well theres not really any point trying to educate you. Little long in the tooth to be rewiring your brain. Oh look, thankfully another commenter posted links to some data,...in case you're up for the challenge.

@@venaz12009 Never going to TRAVEL to other star systems? You sure about that? No, you can't "breathe on those stars" ...you can't breathe on any star...you can however breathe on the planet they just discovered that's only 20 light years away. At speeds we can reach NOW, it would only take 2,000 years to reach. And propulsion tech gets better exponentially. So, you're incorrect. We ARE going. It's all a matter of money and time. (And a few brave souls...youd think at LEAST a few Hawaiians would be interested in the possibility...I mean ...weren't your ancestors brave enough to travel the VAST oceans?)

Garry Burgess Choose: money and focus this earth or places 55 million miles away. Fix our oceans coral and ocean life are dying. Air pollution killing our people. Be practicle

irishmusico that I will support, I’m not against TMT, just want it built else where