Iron Warriors vs Imperial fists Seige specialist vs Fortifications specialist A long rivalry that's been going on for 10 thousand years

“A man who discredits the power of a lazgun, hasn’t run through a field of a thousand of them”

It might seem a little silly that the Hammer was capable of dealing more damage than the Bolters but it's unique in that there's an energy field emitting device built into them. They're called Thunder Hammers and only activate upon striking a target, and they do so with enough force to put holes in main battle tanks.

Just want to point out that both shots from the lascannon that the Imperial Guard fired did significant damage to the enemy. The first shot outright killed a Chaos Space Marine and the second disabled the Dreadnought's twin autocannon. Lascannons are just slow firing anti-vehicle weapons. Additionally the hammer used by the Imperial Fist Space Marine is an energy weapon called a Thunder Hammer that delivers a concentrated pulse of its power field on impact allowing it to punch through armor kinda like a modern shaped charge.

combat vet: "you would think they would engineer..." warhammer 40k fabricator general: "lemme stop you right there, we dont do that here"

Its a legion symbol. The iron warriors and imperial fists hate each other. This raid could literally be because the warriors want to show the fists that their defenses aren't that good.

For the whole larger weapon for the Guard argument, they do actually provide bolters as a squad weapon, but since they're so heavy they are more emplacement deals than anything mobile. Additionally, the incredibly low chance to ever come across a space marine would make a specific anti-marine weapon more costly than beneficial; it's much easier to just move around other marine chapters to counter their evil counterparts.

I think you got slightly confused, The Tank you see at the start was a Land Raider, it is also a Transport, so when the marine comes thru the door, it is him exiting the Land Raider.

The end moment wasn't the marine destroying the objective. The techpriest had grabbed the book and ran through an escape tunnel. It looks like the marine overcharged his plasma pistol to the point of it exploding, and was probably trying to collapse the entrance to the escape tunnel?

The lasgun is not a bad weapon is just that infantry is meant to face other infantry, you have to consider that a space marine is a literal human tank.

Since they're using autoguns instead of lasers for the most part, these guys are probably PDF: it would be like a random National Guard garrison fighting a fully equipped special forces battalion/regiment. They just don't have the equipment or training to do anything except delay as long as they can while dying to the man, which is what they do, because sometimes they're just that hard. Generally, PDF wouldn't have to face worse than a raid led by a handful of Chaos Marines, which these guys could probably deal with alone; this being 40K though, sometimes you just get the worst hand.

Yes, he finally reacted to it! Also, the lascannon actually did do work here. When the chaos marines first entered they took down one of the attackers and then disabled the dreadnought. Unfortunately he was immediately targeted when they realized he was a threat.

Lascannon is actually very effective. It fires only twice per this firefught because chaos marines are killing operators as soon as they reach for it, but in the first shot it VAPORIZES one of marines and in the second it heavily damages the dreadnought. It's an anti-tank weapon.

Chaos and friendly fire? Oh, you mean “removing the competition”

Regarding the hazard stripes, those, together with steel/unpainted armor and the silver skull mask are the legion livery of the Iron Warriors. There really is not much deeper lore behind them. Although, considering their attitude towards "acceptable casualties", they might just denote actual hazard.

The Siege video is probably one of SODAZ's best because it BEAUTIFULLY shows off the Imperial Fists and the Iron Warriors at what they are the best at, the Imperial Fists holding their ground through heavy fortifications against incredibly vast hostile forces while the Iron Warriors use the tactics that they know to breach the walls of a heavily defended installation and rip it apart from the inside out with heavy firepower, even more still they were absolutely hauling ass as they knew full well the Imperial Fists would coordinate with the Imperial Guard to adapt to their breach.

The Chaos Space Marines (or CSM) don't have CHAPTERS but are composed of Warbands and Legions. And the black and yellow stripes are the colours of the Iron Warriors Legion (one of the original 18 Legions that betrayed the Emperor during the Horus Heresy). They and the Imperial Fists (another original legion turned chapter) kinda hate each other for reasons that go back all the way to the Great Crusade. And lascannon can screw Space Marine up without any trouble. It's just the dreadnaughts have very THICK and durable armor. Or that exact dreadnaught is protected by warp or is very technologically advanced (since everything from the Great Crusade (except Space Marine armour) is very advanced for nowadays Imperium. And the CSM Legions have only stuff from the Great Crusade. And lascannons are not one-shot at all. They, like lasguns, are powered by charging packs. And Power Hammer, which is shown here, is more effective than mostly any man-portable long-range weapon that is available to the Imperium now. Like Power weapons can cut anything except other power weapons. And the Imperial Guard is NOT MEANT to fight CSM. At all. They're too human for that. Also - the technology has downgraded and that's all. The weapons that can kill a Space Marine AND can be carried by a Guardsman cost more than like a 100 guardsman. And the Astartes are so overpowered that they can shoot the grenade while it's flying. And maybe those explosives are working only because it has direct hit with NO distance between the epicenter of the explosion and the CSM. So a grenade wouldn't be effective. Astartes didn't destroy an important object at the end, since a techpriest (guy in red robes and a mask with blue lenses) got it away. Astartes simply wanted to kill more CSM with that.

They do use better weaponry than just lasguns. Plasma rifles can go through an astartes armor with ease. Just they have a tendency to overheat. You also have mounted heavy bolters, heavy stubbers, melta chargers, melta weaponry, flamers, etc etc. All guard weapons that are fielded. There might just be a reason this group don't have them. Undersupplied, rag tag quickly put together defense, idiot logistics or commander etc. Hard to say without more context. Also, as said already - Thunder Hammer OP af

The Iron Warriors use that striping as part of their heraldry. They're essentially a Legion of combat engineers.

the plasma cannon (blue energy) did kill 1 marine at the beginning. The second shot stunned the dreadnaught. The hammer is a power weapon that enhances the Astartes already god like strength. The guard are more than capable of taking on traitor Astartes, but its entirely dependent on the campaign being fought. Most guard campaigns are against enemies the guard usually fight. It is IMPORTANT to note that the guard here were using mostly if not entirely all auto guns. You dont usually see auto guns in the hands of campaigning guardsmen so these guys are def planetary garrison. Its like marines attacking a police station occupied by armed civilians and a few SF guys.

4:46 Just to let you know they were leaving their transport vehicle to engage, not room clearing

Honestly, the lasgun is effective against like 70% or so of the enemy forces the Guard is actually expected to deal with. The other 30% of enemies, you either have so many of them that sheer, mind-breaking firepower is enough to cancel out the weaknesses of each individual rifle, or you grab as much Power Armor as possible and throw it at the bad thing.

When the Chaos Marines came through the 2nd door the Chaos already passed the Imperial Guards. Also Space/Chaos marines do have 80-90% Successful crit rate

The two techprist looking dudes with the blue optics are the Adeptus Mechanicus's private military: The skittari. Basically take a guy replace most of his body with machines and give him a gun that slowly kills the user with harmful radiation.

The fighting here is mainly between the iron warriors and the imperial fists. The fists are in yellow,, and the iron warriors typically wear those stripes. They've hated each other since before even the Horus heresy. It's a serious rivalry. Imperial fists are all about defending something while iron warriors are about sieging something.

"Hey guys it's Paul. Combat veteran, MMA fighter, KZfaqr." This gonna be legend.

Ok to make it a bit clear, the reason why the average guardsmen doesnt take a better weapon to fight a chaos space marine is that the instance is relatively rare. Most of the times regular IG fight against either cults or orks. Eldar, chaos, tyranids, tau are actually quite rare in comparison to how many guardsmen are enlisted and compared to how often fights with orks are. Also if chaos forces are involved, either the ig will know the attack, so they bring space marines and special equipment or they are just caught of guard. Csm generally do hit and run tactics and do a lot of carefull planning when attacking and always take advantage of orks already attacking the area. Not to mention that csm induce insanity and terror to people who arent prepared for them because of the warp, so the equipment wouldnt make a difference. ( The general public has no idea that chaos and demons exist. Some worlds are fully aware of chaos like cadia but these worlds are relatively few compared to the millions of worlds that the imperium has )

The Iron warriors use hazard stripes as a symbol of how dangerous they are.

A lascannon is a powerful piece of imperial weaponry, but dreadnoughts have armor that can put Terminator armor to shame. It’s a literal sarcophagus of ceramite designed to be an entire weapons platform and wreck havoc from mid to short range engagements.

18:02 I think the biggest thing to take into consideration regarding the disparity between armor effectiveness and weapon effectiveness in Warhammer 40k is the relationship between armor and weaponry in our own world. Much like how in the 13th-14th century armor effectiveness surpassed most weapons ability to pierce it (to the point where many weapons were either designed to be able to pierce areas no protected by armor like joints or use blunt force trauma like hammers) and how in the 16th-17th century armor effectiveness could not match weapons the firearm's ability to pierce them, the 40k universe seems to be in a state where once again armor has overtaken weapons in terms of effectiveness. I know that this is one of the reasons (besides rule of cool) that melee is allowed to occur, because the infantry is capable of closing to extremely close ranges before the enemies weapons can deal with their armor. Regarding the lascannon in particular, its stated that the lascannon is capable of penetrating most vehicles. This comes with the caveat that these vehicles are (presumably) made of various forms of steel or other metals. On the other hand, Space Marine armor is made of ceramite (fantasy ceramic material) that acts as very good ablative armor, effectively nullifying direct energy weapons.

At 4:43 that's not a door into a room, that's the side door exiting the Land Raider tank.

The Imperial guard has a huge abundance of weapons capable to threatening an Astartes. Small arms are not going to work, they have to use crew served or heavy weapons and tank support. Keep in mind the prospect of IG actually fighting an Astartes or equivalent foe is very unlikely.

Those ''hammers'' are the most OP weapons a space marine can use in melee, Its a power weapon that even if heavy armor blocks the hit, it will damage the crap out of the insides from shock damage, And space marine's internal organs become mush after a hit or two . And never underestimate an Imperial Fist using one.

while you say they would engineer weapons to fight Chaos Space Marines, in the Imperium, hardly anyone knows that CSM (Chaos Space Marines) exist. If knowledge of them comes out, the Inquisition steps in and kills the surviving guardsmen. Additionally, Imperial regiments defect on a regular basis. Oou wouldnt want to have such an army to be able to kill Space Marines. One lesson of the Horus Heresy was to keep all imperial units relatively combat ineffective. That s why the Imperial Navy was separate from the Imperial Guard, that is why there are only 1000 SM per Chapter (~1 Million in total), why the Imperial Senate is in constant struggle to maintain its power etc.

The lascannon shot should punch right through a dreadnought. That is an oversight in this video. The thunder hammer is a power weapon that uses an extreme concussive force to deal with armoured targets. Like using maces against medieval knights because their armour is difficult to pierce.

First of all, great tactical analysis, it is both enjoyable and educational to hear someone who has expertise in the area explain it. So thank you for a great video! Regarding your critique of the shieldwall scene: I think there are three main aspects to the choice of tactics, first guardsmen are much more expendable than space marines, so a rational force commander might choose to use them as a meat shield to waste the ammunition of the attackers to try and give the marines a slightly bigger chance. Secondly the defending space marines are of the Imperial Fists who are renowned for their defensive siegecraft and unit firing drills. So it could be that a decision was made to keep them in their trained formations/drills to maximise their potential damage to the enemy. As the last point I want to throw the speculation into the room that the primary goal was not to defeat the attackers but let the Techpriests escape with the artefact. So in my amateurish mind it makes sense to confront eh enemy there and not further away from the objective in order to prevent being flanked by the enemy who then might capture the relic. Hope it makes somewhat sense outside my head :D @Paul

The imperial guard has grenades and tripoded bolters that can kill space marines. They also have plasma guns, which can one tap a marine if they are lucky. But only 1 out of like every hundred of em have that kinda weapon and the marines usually kill them first because of how dangerous they are.

20:52 No the "valuable" was the Book, the Techpriest took it and ran, he as it at the end. But you still had the defective Power generator, the Imperial fist Captain( the guy in Yellow) used his Plasma Pistol, to blow it up and try to take some of the Iron Warriors in the room with him. "Only in death does Duty Ends"

The hammer is basically surrounded by a field of force energy, that REALLY causes extreme kintetic force. Those Iron warriors were basically hit with a truck.

It might be a Heavy Bolter (yes literally a bigger bolter say a 30mm mounted gun). Also because space marines are very effective against normal humans, then they might wanna capture the fortress (like in astartes they can clear a fortress if they are 100 or even 10 if they are good and their armor holds) also the guard have nice equipement just that as in modern military many dont get it cause its rare or too expensive to equip them some regiments drop from valkyries with anti grav backpacks (jetpacks) others have camo cloaks, some have specialized recon equipement and etc. Well the lasscannon there almost killed the dreadnought and at the beggining killed a space marine in 1 hit. And yes they have specialized weapons (you described a heavy bolter) and some volkite weapons that are almost guaranteed single shot kills versus marines, but they are very rare and were banned by the emperor because it meant the regular humans could destroy his legions of space marines (making it easier to rebel against the imperium) and in regards to power weapons the guard does have power swords (like light sabers) and the heavier hammers and stuff the marines have also work with the weight they have against humans or other marines but it also has some type of forcefield that can even destroy tanks and buildings. At the end the tech priest had the book (probably an STC) to a safe zone. STC is like your blueprints to make long lost technology, say how to make a Chimera or maybe some special weapon like a better version of an imperial knight etc

Just some info for the record, yes they actually do have tripod bolters for reg infantry like you mentioned. Sodaz just likely used the las-cannon for the visual. Secondly the las-cannon does work against the regular chaos marines but the dreadnaught is a while other level, same with bolters. Thirdly in 40k melee weapons have been improved to such a degree that they effectively can cut through most opponents on a battlefield. Best way to think about it is armor in 40k has advanced to a point where your gun either will or won’t kill it, while melee weapons will likely work against almost any opponent, but due to obvious reasons like the risk of closing the distance most soldiers including space marines prefer to use firearms. Irl a sword vs a gun would be one sided most times but when the one or both combatants have such good protection and speed their use isn’t entirely a bad thing anymore.

The Chaos Marines are of the Iron Warriors legion, and their livery is a "steel skull" emblem, silver armour, and hazard stripes. They are siege specialists, and approach warfare essentially as a logistical problem more than a tactical one. They're pretty amoral, and will burn through troops as readily as bullets if it gets the job done. They often make use of slaves - deployed in wave attacks - to clear mines and deplete enemy ammo, then render down the dead into rations.

Lascannon is actually very powerful weapon (You can see how it killed one of chaos space marines when it hit him), that can destroy tanks. And imperial guard have some weapons, that can kill a space marines, and are not like super heavy, you can look at hot shot lasguns, or plasma guns. But i can see why you think like that, in this animation imperial guard did almost nothin besides of just be dead. Maybe you should watch or read something about tempestus scions, you may like them.

Leutin09's Tyranid first contact, it's like a horror story

Here's something you need to remember. A lasgun is effectively a standard small arms weapon; it is an assault rifle. And there are variations on the technology, like las pistols, the longlas sniper rifke, and a heavy variant called the hellgun that is somewhere between a flamethrower and a minigun. And then there's the lascannon, which is essentially the laser equivalent of an RPG, and it's designed to blast holes in tanks. The lascannon is so effective that even Space Marines will field them, and there are scaled up versions of it that are installed on dreadnoughts, tanks, knights, Titans, and battleships.

Very glad your doing a video covering this... that guy is a hidden gem and seige is phenomenal.

4:48 he isn’t breaching a room, he is stepping out of the tank…

That 'hammer' is a kind of power weapon called a 'Thunderhammer'. It has a force field generator mounted inside of it that projects a field of energy around the head of the weapon. When it smacks into something, the force field pushes away matter on a molecular level, loosening it. Then the hammer itself, which probably weighs over a hundred pounds depending on the material and the strength of the person expected to be swinging it, follows through, driving the field forward, dispersing the loosened matter apart and slamming into whatever is left to stand against it, generating a tremendous booming sound likened to thunder, hence the name. These things are used to smash apart tanks, and using them on anything less than superheavy infantry like Space Marines is considered massive overkill; if you swung one of those down at a regular human, he'd be disintegrated without the hammer ever touching him, and the ground would be cratered like a grenade had just gone off. A typical Chapter would be lucky to even own a handful of these things, and several Primarchs used Thunderhammers as a preferred weapon, namely Rogal Dorn, Ferrus Manus, and Vulkan.

15:04 not really most imperial guard (along with most of humanity) view the space marines as something akin to angels and they are some times called the emperor angels of death.

Lascannons usually are very effective anti-armor weapons. You can actually see it taking out an Iron Warrior in one shot when they breach the gate. Dreadnoughts however, especially ancient ones and Chaos versions, are utter NIGHTMARES of unyielding destruction. They should take a single lascannon shot to the glacis no problem. Additionally, Iron Warriors really, REALLY like heavy armor and are not above using warp-sorcery and deamons to pack a battleship's main belt into a neat, mech-wearable package.

Ok I'm gonna tell you this, that hammer is a thunder hammer, a power weapon. Power weapons are melee weapons used not only by the Imperium but also the Eldar, Chaos and orks There are power hammers, power swords, power mauls and lightning claws They generates an powerful energy field around the weapon like a hammers head or a sword blade this energy field disrupts the molecules where it cuts or strikes they very devastating weapons that can crushed or cut through anything

Shovel? Check. Recaf? Check. Orders? Check. *Happy gas mask noises* Edit: also turning off the lights upon acquisition of a target is a classic Night Lords tactic.

My respect to the soldiers you mentioned at the end. Not just because of what they did but also because of what doing it meant mentally, they hat to except that their lives were most likely over that is not an easy thing to do.

Alright I found an archived forum page where Sodaz explained why the lines were setup like this. The Iron Warriors built this city during the crusade pre-heresy and they left an stc archive here. The Techpriests are transcribing the archive into a portable form. The Imperial Fists are the security for the archive and if they finished with the transcription before the Iron Warriors got in they would have escorted it back to Mars. Since the Iron Warrior knew the building layout the couldn't risk a single Chaos agent getting in a secret entrance so had to be right there.

love your videos man!

20:00 There are a few points on this. First, Guardsmen do have weapons that can handle Dreads and Space Marines: Meltas and Plasmas. In a 10 man squad there are 2 guys with such support weapons, but they aren't shown here. Second, maybe 1 in ten-thousand guardsmen are ever going to see a space marine, much less have to engage a chaos marine. Carrying meltas and plasma all of the time to be ready for them is like having every squad in the US Army carry both Javelins and Stingers on every mission.

Really good analysis and perspective, it helps me appreciate the animations more!

The Guard could engage Space Marines with focus fire, grenades, officer plasma pistoles, heavy manned bolters as you said and stuff like that. The hammer is a Storm Hammer with a disruptor field, basically a light saber.

Ok, I feel you need a bit of lore perspective here. The average Imperial Guardsman is issued with a standard lasgun. This thing is a high-powered laser weapon that is capable of blowing a fist sized hole through the chest of an unarmored human. It's very effective against lightly armored opponents. Space marines are anything but lightly armored. The only chance a lasgun has against Astartes power armor (aside from variations such as the 'las-locks' used by the Death Corps, which are more powerful but slower firing, or the 'hotshot' lasguns which require an external power pack) would be to get a direct hit on a weak point such as a joint or helmet visor. Lascannons, on the other hand, are orders of magnitude more powerful, and are effective anti-armor weapons. While they can easily blow the torso off of a Space Marine or punch right through a battle tank's hull, they are large, slow-firing, and require a massive amount of power. Ones used by Imperial Guard infantry are usually mounted either in a fixed position or on a carriage, usually with power packs carried by a second operator. A portable, hand-held version is often employed by Astartes who are able to carry the weight of the weapon and it's power supply, but these are much more rare and difficult to produce. In this video, we see a shot from the lascannon outright kill one chaos marine, and disable the dreadnought's autocannons. The hammers we see the Space Marines use are a special type of weapon called a Thunderhammer. These are a kind of power weapon. Power weapons use an energy field to disrupt matter they come into contact with. The most common form is the power sword, which uses it's energy field to part material on the molecular level, making it very effective against armor. The Thunderhammer, on the other hand, only activates it's energy field on impact, releasing the entirety of it's energy at once. This is basically like getting struck with a bolt of lightning, creating the deafening crack the weapon gets it's name from. This is enough of a shock to blast apart even heavy vehicle armor. In close confines like we see in the final battle, Thunderhammers are ideal for taking out hard targets, such as the dreadnought, especially when paired with a defensive item like a combat shield. Often Space Marine Terminators will use a Thunderhammer paired with a Stormshield, a smaller type of combat shield that includes a force field projector. As for your mention of anti-armor grenades and secondary weapons, there are tons of those. Krak grenades being the most common, though less power than the more rare melta-bombs. While krak grenades can be thrown, they're not a sure solution to heavy vehicles like a dreadnought, unless you are able to somehow get them into a vulnerable spot. Melta-bombs are much more effective, but usually have to be attached to the target in some way like a shaped-charge, making them much more dangerous to use. There's also more... well, esoteric weapons one could use. Vortex grenades are loads of fun XD

8:15 It actually is! The fun part, especially in space, it a little thing known as void shields. These things, along with heavy armor, have made it so a heavy cutting beam punching a (relatively) tiny hole in the side of any building/ship is the fastest way into a place because void shields have a somewhat quick recharge time. Of course, you can just slow march troops on the ground to get through them since they have a minimum speed before they stop anything, so it's generally a space thing but it can happen on the ground as well.

The helmet has an incredible amount of sensors for a space marine, he wasn't checking for anyone, he already KNEW where everyone was, and that's why he immediately positioned himself to start shooting without bothering to check the other angle. It's also why in Astartes, the captain stabs the rebel in the stomach as he's sneaking up behind him without even looking, because the sensors in his helmet let him know where he was coming from, how fast, the distances, etc.

In this situation the lascannon was the wrong choice. There are many AT weapons available, the guard don't have access to them all. You have krak missiles which have good range but are the least effective. The lascannon has a longer range and much better ap. The missile has abou 33% chance of penitration the lascanon has about 50%. The other option which sadly the guard don't have is the multimelta which is very short ranged and difficult to move but has a 90% chance to penitrate the dreadnought. There is a more mobile version called a melta which guard do have access to but your almost in close quarters. Then there's an even smaller version the inferno postal which only has a range of a few feet. Table top rules (may be out of date): Name range penitration pot dam Lascannon 72" 9+1d6 10-15 Krak 48" 8+1d6 9-14 Multimelta 24" 8+2d6 10-20 Melta 12" Inferno 4" The dreadnought needs to be hit with a damage value of 12 to inflict minor damage but iron warriors like to reinforce their armour so it may need a 13.

The Guard actually do have krak grenades that are meant for punching through armor or specifically tank armor, the problem is when facing Chaos Space Marines who have enhanced senses, compiled onto the auto-senses from their armor, a Guardsman is LUCKY to kill one Chaos Marine let alone maybe two, as afterwards any marine that's with the ones that got killed will identify said lucky bastard as a threat and gun the poor guy down.

And the guardsmen stand their ground until the last man, no matter the enemy. Love the shields of the Fists! Edit: on the topic of lascannons: against a space marine, they are effective, in numbers, just because the armor is so tough. And the hammer: rule of cool, simple as that. It's fun to imagine someone with a power hammer or normal hammer just clobbering the enemies. That's the thing with warhammer. Rule of cool trumps logic, we can make up why that works later :D

Feel I need to correct you on this. There isn't a rivalry between the Space Marines and the Imperial Guard. The Guard are in awe/fear of the Space Marines, and the Marines (generally) consider the Guard as mostly meat-shields. There are exceptions, of course (The Salamanders chapter are very protective of normal humans), but most Marines would consider it tactically sound to let the Imperial Guard slow down the enemy's advance rather than put more valuable troops (themselves) in the front line to take the first charge. You can always recruit more guardsmen, but finding one person able to even survive the recruitment process to become a Space Marine is very difficult.

The lazcannon is an antitank weapon meant to long range support the real question is more why did they put that inside. If you watch closely the first iron warrior to pass the gate just disappeared from the shot he received. The "hammer" by the look of it looks like a heavy thunder hammer, it's a molecular disruption field combine with an energy blast discharge on impact, it basically create a weakness in any solid material at the same time as its sending a shockwave through the target

About the Lascannon rant around 19:00 There are "grenades" that do the job, they're called meltabombs. There are Tripod mounted Heavy Bolters (Bolter but as an LMG) for Guards, don't know why they didn't have any there. The Lascannon is very powerfull, It one-shot one of the space marines and completely disabled the twin autocannon of the Dreadnought. As for the Hammers: they are Thunderhammers, special very hard to make weapons that have some sort of energyfield around them that basically remove the bond between atoms. In the tabletop both Lascannons and Thunderhammers are some of the most powerful weapons used by infantry units.

You know what, I was going to give you $hit for your cup again but it makes sense that MP would be ultramarines... Stuck up, by the book boys...

Where The iron and warriors and the imperial fist The 2 chapters have a deep seated Hatred and rivalry with each other and both specialize in siege warfare

10.50 Minute mark; IRON WARRIORS!!! The hazard wearing Chaos Space Marines. Worshippers of Chaos Undivided, these guys are some parts technophiles, some parts Siege Experts, all parts Ruthless!

Engineering a weapon ? in the 41st millenium ? Thats heretek my dude, innovation is heresy, and a lascanon is very strong, it can punch through tank armor And the Guard do have access to anti armor weapons, such has positionned heavy bolters, multilaser for anti personnel, lascanon for anti armor, plasma gun/canon can do anti armor and anti personnel, melta for anti armor, auto-canon can do anti light armor. Yes lasgun are flashlights, but have 500 000 people shooting you with said flashlight, you're gonna feel it

I've already commented, but two points regarding the Lascannon. 1) It did what it was meant to do. It penetrated the armour of the Dreadnought, disabling the autocannon arm. 2) Imperial technology in 40k is "relic-based". For semi-superstitous reasons, the Tech Priests rely on ancient blueprints which predate "the bad times". Inventing things is forbidden because it might cause more "bad things".

Regarding the disadvantage to plunging themselves into darkness; the Space marines have enhanced vision and their helmets grant them multi-spectrum vision, so they have not blinded themselves. The guardsmen seldom receive such technological advantages and would be struggling to see. The hammer is a thunder hammer, it has an energy field which pierces and "explodes" upon impact of the hammer strike. They often have ornate markings which is either because the hammer is a relic of significance to the chapter or because it has warding powers which make chaos more vulnerable to the attack. It is viable as a weapon because of the marines augmented strength and the protection of their power armour.

To clarify, they’re called “thunder hammers” for a pretty good reason- they’re not just a hunk of heavy metal. They’re a hunk of heavy metal wrapped in some pretty powerful force-field shenanigans so that when they hit the enemy, they hit like a truck if the truck was super-heated, covered in lightning and fired out of a cannon. Also I get what you mean for the lasGUN the dinky little infantry weapon they give to every expendable guardsman, but that lasCANNON you said would be ineffective has a significantly higher punch than even a marines bolter. A lascannon is what happens when the Imperium makes a lasgun that actually CAN do something to a marine, and that’s why it’s so big and unwieldy- it, too, hits like a truck wrapped in flex tape and set on fire. That hit to the dreadnought did some hefty damage to it- too bad the dude was so surprised about his success that he forgot to duck back down 😅

18:05 a tiny nitpick, a Lascannon is actually a devastatingly powerful weapon (the big gun that one Imperial Guard used to damage the Dreadnought was a Lascannon), the inferior version of the Lascannon, the Lasgun, is what the Imperial Guard use. 40k likes to use certain weapon types with different power variations to them. For example: Plasma Pistol < Plasma Gun < Plasma Cannon < Plasma Blastgun or Bolt Pistol < Bolter < Heavy Bolter < Vulcan Mega Bolter, or with Las weaponry: Laspistol < Lasgun < Lascannon < Las-Impulsor.

The lascannon is Actualy one of the imperiums best anti tank weapons. Its basicly like a ww1/ww2 anti tank field gun. The hammer isnt just a metal beat stick (though the animation here dosnt realy show it) it basicly has kind of energy burst field that triggers on impact. Technicly its weeker then the lascannon by a smig but you can swing it fast in a space marines hands.

the book was the HVT and the pedestal he shot had a unstable energy buildup from it's removal

i remember talking with a friend who's a huge guardsman fan and he stated that there are tactics the guardsmen use to take down chaos space marines. for the guardsmen to take down a single chaos space marine they must use 3 lines of 6 to 8 guardsman per line and volley fire their lazguns. the focus fire of the lazguns would be enough to take down 1 Chaos Marine, the problem with the tactic however is that it's difficult to get the guardsmen to rally under stress especially when the target is barreling towards them and not giving them a chance to think.

I think the idea with the las cannon shot was a glancing hit that disabled his right arm. That guardsman had already been wounded and remanned his position when he saw the Cpt rush

Few notes here. The guardsmen fired a plasma Cannon, anti heavy infantry and and vehicle weapon. After the dred was hit by the plasma cannon round, it was disabled, noted by the dred slumping over, even its arm mounted weapon turned to face toward the ground. Also the guard do posses anti tank-anti / marine (power armor) weapons. These would be plasma guns, melta guns, ect. The first krieg video showed a guardsman firing what looked like a multimelta, which completely obliterated the opposing infantry despite being entrenched. Check out the stats for the tabletop game sometime if you are interested. Its a really interesting number crunch, on how what weapons have what ranges, strengths, armor penetrations, ect.

A thunder hammer is so heavy that a normal guardsman can't even lift it. You are forgetting that the astartes are a) very big and b) very strong.

The issue with lascannons is that they're very reliant on atmospheric conditions like dust and magnetic fields. Under ideal circumstances, they are the Imperium's best anti-tank weapon in its size category, capable of burning a front-to-back hole through a Leman Russ in one shot. It's downright terrifying to come up against if you're in an armored vehicle. There's a reason why the Imperium's best tank-destroyers just carry two lascannons in the turret. They're also much more expensive than simple projectile weaponry, which is why the guard tends to get stuck with cheaper options like the Vanquisher tank-destroyer, or the rocket launcher.

2:53 fun fact, the smallest caliber weapon typically fielded by imperial military troops is the autogun, which has a caliber of 8.25mm, larger than an AK's round at 7.62mm, but a fair bit smaller than a .50 cal round, meanwhile autocannons are purported to fire something in the .70 cal range. 5:15 the squad is deploying from the side-door of a land-raider super-heavy tank/transport, these tanks have sponsons on either side that bulge out a meter or more from the tank hull where weapon mounts are, the side doors of the raider are located behind the sponsons, as you notice the marine moves forward and begins to fire in the direction the tank is facing. To do this, he has had to move several meters forward, meanwhile the other marines behind him are deploying to the right, further toward the rear and flank of the land-raider, there is more than enough room between where the first man out the door stops and begins firing, and the doorway itself for his squad-mates to deploy. This is also not a breach and clear as you put it, it is a tactical deployment from an armored transport into an active combat zone while under fire from a single direction, first man out the APC lays covering fire in the direction of engagement as his squad deploys, following suite as needed. 6:55 Space marines do not "chill" on board transports, and a Thunderhawk Gunship is not a flying metal coffin, it is more akin to a flying main battle tank. When troop deployment under fire against hardened positions is concerned, Thunderhawks are designed to ram themselves at maximum speed, into hollow sections of enemy fortifications, softening said fortifications up with massive salvos from their on board weapons including the Thunderhawk Cannon, its main weapon mounted dorsally atop the center of the ships hull, this weapon is essentially a larger longer barreled version of the battle cannon found on the Leman Russ Tank, it is a 120mm smooth bore gun and fires an APHE (Armor-Piercing-High-Explosive) round as standard, a round capable of punching holes several meters deep into enemy fortifications. Space marines riding in Thunderhawks are typically spending most of their effort aboard said gunship compensating for the immense G-force exerted during both the gunships acceleration and high speed maneuvering. The majority of this force is absorbed and countered by the marines power armor, but still requires effort on the marines part to not be overcome by the force. 7:15 The chaos marines on the ground firing at the spire ARE the small force you're referring to, and they are not securing a position, they are assaulting a hardened installation. 10:34 they are black and yellow, not black and white, and judging by their pauldrons these marines are members of the chaos warband known as Adharon's Reavers formerly members of the Sons of Guilliman Successor Chapter of the Ultramarines 14:16 Imperial Fists are an obsessively defensive minded chapter, as such, they would not use a shield wall to protect a heavy weapon crew, as one weak-point in a shield wall, will shatter it quickly, the Fists are using what appears to be a multi-tiered choke-point delaying defense against the assaulting chaos marines. The layers of the defenses engage as the enemy bears, holding fire until the enemy has breached the defensive barrier ahead of them, this ensures the assaulting force will be met with multiple layers of defenders, each of which are fresh, and have fully loaded and primed weapons ready to engage the assaulting force which must continue through all the layers, expending ammunition, manpower, and stamina on each layer of defense. 15:03 this varies from chapter to chapter, most space marine chapters do not disdain guardsmen or normal humans, most chapters sport tremendous respect for guardsmen for having the guts to stand against a universe of enemies far physically and psychically superior to themselves with little more than a light gun and some crude armor, and in turn most guardsmen look to space marines with reverence, the context is crucial to understand why, space marines are men who were once imperial citizens, some were even guardsmen before being selected to become a space marine, and every space marine is a veteran of hundreds if not thousands of battles bare minimum, and are often well in excess of 100 years old, some reach ages in the thousands of years, the Oldest Dreadnought in the Imperium is Bjorne the Fel-Handed, a space marine of the space wolves chapter who fought along side Leman Russ before his disappearance and is rumored to have even fought along side the emperor of man himself, long before becoming a dreadnought. Space marines as a whole most commonly view themselves as protectors of humanity, and that includes the guard. The imperial fists, the chapter portrayed here, are described as stern, somber, and highly disciplined, they take their duty to protect the imperium very seriously, and that includes its people, they view the guardsmen in much a similar manner as they do themselves, servants of the emperor, tasked with protecting humanity. They respect the guard, but are not afraid to use and spend their lives in the most tactically sound manner they see fit. They will also not willingly compromise a layer of their defense by mixing a weaker less able element into it for the sake of preserving a heavy weapons platform, should the weapon crew be eliminated it can always be remanned. The space marines are also acting as a shield for the working skittari behind them who are attempting to secure and transport an artifact away from the battlefield. People, even space marines can be replaced, Archeotechnology cannot. 16:10 this is not a prepared entrenched position, this is a last stand delaying action defense. Imperial Fist space marines are specialists in defensive warfare, if the enemy has gotten this far, it means they have already broken through numerous defensive barriers, troop positions and hardened defenses insulating and protecting this objective, and it means that beyond the room the objective is contained in, there is either nowhere left to run, or nowhere left to fight effectively. Imperial Fists are not a make do and mend minded chapter, they are known as the defenders of Terra for a very good reason. Also this is 40k life has little value, soldiers and even space marines can be replaced, technology, cannot, will explain why in next point. This is also an enclosed environment, remember this assault is taking place high up in a hive spire structure, the extra room you're talking about between defense lines and the objectives simply does not exist in this environment. 17:50 It was not dumb, it was brave, and effective, the shot hit its target and stunned the dreadnought long enough for the charging marines to reach and disable it. Effectively removing it from the fight. Again keep in mind, this is 40k, life has little meaning, and a guardsmen's ultimate duty, as well as a space marine's is to die in service to the emperor and the imperium of mankind, this guardsmen fulfilled his duty. 18:15 the weapon you're talking about exists, it is called a lascannon rifle, and it is fielded by guardsmen weapon crews and by devastator space marine squads, it is extremely large and bulky, and they are relatively rare, and if destroyed or lost in combat may not be able to be replaced. In 40k new tech must often be discovered, it cannot be invented or developed, as the imperium views creating new technology as heretical, the 40k world is rather backwards this way. The grenade you mentioned also exists, it is called a melta grenade, and is used to destroy armored targets. Also note the lascannon was never fired at the chaos space marines, it was fired at the dreadnought, dreadnoughts are an entirely different beast than space marine armor, they are essentially a heavily armed heavily armored ICU hospital bed. Anything short of an Anti-tank weapon is not going to even scuff a dreadnoughts paint let alone put a dent in it, and that lascannon managed to briefly knock the marine in that dreadnought senseless. Also keep in mind lascannons are energy weapons, they require power to fire effectively, this battle appears to be part of an ongoing siege, which coupled with the location of this defense, high up in a hive spire, its unlikely resupply is readily available, so this lascannon may not even be able to fire with its full force, and even so there are stories of dreadnoughts surviving 4 direct hits from lascannons and still managing to win against overwhelming odds. 19:10 This is no normal hammer, its a power hammer. Power hammers have energy field emitters built into their heads, which enable them to release a huge blast of energy upon striking a target. this effectively puts the striking power of a full size high velocity tank round behind every blow the hammer lands on a target. Imagine a hammer that creates an explosion with the force of a few sticks of dynamite behind it every time you hit something with it, and you're getting close.

The hazard stripes of the Iron (Losers) Warriors are because Perturabo (Peter Turbo) was such a surly and edgy guy he decreed that they wouldn't paint their armor but leave the hazard stripes in reminder of their role as siege and assault specialists. I personally have a head canon that the stripes are because they're generally a hazard to be around given Peturabo's habit of throwing his legionnaires and any surrounding imperial guard into the meat grinder during his time before the Horus Heresy went down and he turned traitor.

The Thunder Hammer is a huge warhammer , these weapons store energy and then release it in a violent explosion upon impact. The tremendous concussive force released is equivalent to a concentrated grenade explosion, strong enough to punch holes in vehicles and knock those nearby to the ground.

The black and yellow strips are part of the color scheme of the iron warriors legion, who were under the command of Peterabo. They turned on the imperium during the horus heresy and have been waging war on imperial planets ever since. Also the laz gun is very effective against infantry, it can literally tear off limbs and punch clean through a regular guardsman, but the issue is most battle take place between imperial guard and other factions. Space Marines and choas space marines are rare in 40k so the laz gun is sufficient for most engagements. It also doesn't jam and has no recoil making it extremely reliable in most scenarios, unless your dealing with Astartes.

fun fact: Even the humble laspistol, within close range and with no atmospheric diffusion of shot, has the power to blast away a foe's face on contact, with the beam penetrating the skull and burning a hole through the brain, causing immediate death. lasguns are actually very powerful, in our time, problem you need to arm billions of soldiers against things that are pretty much as strong as Astartes

An element of the scenario yoy probably missed is that the imperial fists were defending not a command post, but an analysis station the admech were using to decode an ancient tome. With the technological regression in 40K, such a tome couls have information of incalculable value, and the marines were there to oversee it. The reason the Iron Warriors did so well was partly because of the sheer speed of their incursion, and disabling the generators probably complicated the defense of the relic. Why the imperials would keep processing the relic when the power was cut rather than focus on exfil is anyone's guess though.

The yellow and black stripes are an Iron Warriors thing. They like to paint their gear like safety barricades for some reason. They paint that stuff on their boltguns too.

The lazgun exists to counter the majority of threats that a guardsman will face (mutants, heretics, psykers, people who look at them funny). The guard doesn't need anti-armour usually, becuase they generally have the most of every type of vehicle on the battle field. The imperium calls in the space marines for... tougher things, which are rare, but much more interesting.

death corp of krieg soldiers can actually ˝˝increase˝˝ the shot power of their las rifle that it can hurt a chaos marine , and they tend to do it in mass ranks kinda like napoleonic era volley fire , but obviously increasing the shot power so to say also drains the battery much faster

little fun fact the iron warriors (the spikey ones) have mostly mark 3 "Iron" powerarmor wich have the best protection of frontal fire, at least in lore makes it superior for boardings and enclosed combat with forward momentum . but also more sluggish because of the overlaping plates

Space marines and guardsmen don't hate each other, guardsmen just generally view space marines as near-demigods when they see them at all, and space marines generally view guardsmen as fodder, when they consider them at all. Astartes don't usually include the guard in their plans, and certainly don't allow themselves to be included.

Paul: "That makes tacticly no sense" Me: " Me Space Marine. Me go PEW PEW. REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"

Lascannons are pretty effective Anti-vehicle weapons, but there ARE heavy bolters that get issued to IG heavy weapons teams

( sorry, english Is not my native language, and I don't use it very much lately) Imperial guard in general have weapons capable to damage space marine, plasma and melta weaponry and heavy weapon teams use heavy bolters, autocannons and las cannons etc. He just didn't include them in the video. Also another point , and also the Reason of tech stagnation, is that mechanicus prohibit research, development etc. They only use a combine STC files and prints, and they do it wrongly because they don't understand it. It's like they find STC with a half of a tank ( could just be a prototype files) and another half of a tank (which could be just a historical reminder that something like this existed) and they slap it together and call it done, here's your Leman Russ battle tank.

There are a few things that I noticed with the guardsmen with first and foremost that they are using autoguns and not lasguns which is really rare. The big gun was actually a Lascannon which can shoot thru giant tanks and if you notice the shot DID disable the dreadnaughts cannon tho it really should have blew it completely off. Also your comment about the guardsmans lasguns being so weak is kinda off, in this situation a lasgun isn’t as effective but then again fighting space marines is actually quite rare and the recommended action is to fall in loyal marines. The other thing is that when they fire these weapons it’s usually hundreds if not thousands being fired and against even space marines that wouldn’t be easy. Something to remember tho is that if in our universe a lasguns would be ridiculously powerful, the round can blow fist sized holes thru abnormal human with how hot it is, the guns virtually never jam, they are easy to produce, they use battery cells that aren’t hard to recharge, the gun can take tons of abuse including being used as a melee weapon, it has pin point accuracy since there is no round that is affected by wind or gravity, and they are not that heavy so it’s easy to move with. It’s just that in 40k the enemies and other weapons are so powerful that the lasgun seems weak in comparison, but with this weapon the guard has been able to defend numerous battlefields for thousands of years and it is one weapon that they can always rely on to fight the enemy

Great reaction video, and this is what I'm here for. However, a couple of points: - The Chaos Space Marines are of the glorious 4th Legion, the Iron Warriors. Not a meagre chapter that the corpse-Emperors lapdogs are formed in. - Most likely the Iron Warrior wanted to kill the loyalist scum himself, and that's why he blocked the entry - The hazard stripe is the Iron Warriors "patch" and apparently originates pre-Unification wars - That generator most likely powered the void shield of the hive city (not sure though as it looked small for a hive city). The back-up most likely would not have the power to power up the void shields - Loyalist Astartes do not hate the Guardsmen. At least not all of them. Guardsmen, however, think that the Astartes are basically angels of god-like power. The Guardsmen most likely were deployed front because there were few of the hated mongrel descendants of the fool Rogal Dorn, the Imperial Fists, were afraid of the 4th Legion and they didn't want anyone to see their cowardice. Also, the boarding shields used by the Fists were the last line of defense for that... Whatever the book was (some sort of relic, I assume). - The lascannon is a mighty weapon that obliterated the first Iron Warrior that came through the door. It is designed to be a formidable anti-tank weapon and has been used in the Great Crusade, possibly longer. Lasgun, on the other hand, is flashlight. Great in large numbers taking down soft targets, but against Astartes battleplate not so much. Also Imperial Guard does use other weapons, such as grenade launchers or melta and plasma weaponry, and I think that SODAZ made a mistake not including those in this scene. They should have definitely had a couple or melta or plasma weapon in the mix. - Astartes bolters are *massive* weapons with enough recoil to kill a normal human. - The hammer is not "just a hammer". It is a thunderhammer, which is usually wielded by tactical dreadnought armor wearing Astartes, or Terminators, and is exceptionally good at taking down heavily armored opponents. Using a thunderhammer against an Astartes in "normal" battleplate is like killing a deer with an Abrams battletank main cannon. - Furthermore Astartes are *very* few and far in between on any battlefield, so specifically designing units to take out Astartes would be foolish in the extreme.

The whole ordeal with the imperium being poorly equipped is factored by many reasons: -Imperium never created weapons for the every day soldier to kill Astartes due to it never being thought they could be corrupted -There are so many imperium soldiers that not all can be properly equipped & the Horus Heresy caused a split in the mechanicus who are essentially the imperium's arm dealers. -New tech is generally looked at with caution and disgust unless its a found STC, which are design blueprints of lost and powerful ancient technology which whole worlds are put to the lasgun over. It's grimdark, its dumb but most of all its fun.

At around the 2:30 mark in the original, an imperial guardsman does indeed throw a grenade, and it appears to actually take out one of the first chaos marines through the door.