Writers have a hundred years of cinema and hundreds of years of novels from which to learn. There really is no excuse for such bad writing. The problem is that young writers think that anything from the past is problematic, out of date, and they think they know better than the masters that came before. Where they could stand on the shoulders of giants, they choose to try and reinvent the wheel.

They're basically saying, "cause and effect storytelling, kids. It works." "This happened, causing this to happen, but as they're going about doing this, that happens. Therefore, the characters have to do this to solve the problem instead of the original plan." That's an outline for a script in just a couple of sentences.

Trey Parker and Matt Stone perfectly described what is wrong with modern writing.

A really good dungeon master could tell a more compelling story than many of these Hollywood writers. I'm serious...

That little two minute video was the most helpful story tool I've heard in years. Thank you.

Apparently, today's studios also need editors who instead of saying, "This is great, as is," say, "This is dog sh!+, you need to do better."

The problem with modern directors/writers, is that they don't understand what makes a human connection meaningful - Their characters are reflections of the narcissistic, neurotic, consumerist culture of Hollywood. Unable to understand these extremely fundamental aspects of what it is to be human, they are a complete loss when they approach grand topics such as good/evil, ethics, liberty of the individual.

I'm so happy Matt and Trey are getting more and more credit for being genuinely brilliant writers! I saw that video years ago and it perfectly explained why South Park and Team America and Book of Mormon all FEEL so naturally written despite being ridiculous!

“Write a short story every week. It’s not possible to write 52 bad short stories in a row.” - Ray Bradbury

This perfectly describes modern storytelling, which is not telling a story, it is just a sequence of events, one after another, until the runtime runs out. Forget the episodic storytelling of old, where every episode had a beginning, middle and end, the latter of which neatly tied everything up, hell, even modern TV storytelling will at least have the season finale conclude a few storylines if written competently, but then you have shows like Ahsoka, where at the end of it, no one has learned anything, nothing monumental has happened, people are just in different places than they were at the start of the show. I can only imagine what kind of random gobbledygook the people growing up on JJ Abrams films and the like will be writing 20 years down the line.

Perhaps a video on how modern writers can protect their creations might be a good idea. As we have seen with Star Trek Discovery the studios can steal your ideas with little to no consequences.

As a writer, I hone my craft by not only studying what makes stories work, but also what makes other stories suck. Chris Gore has been a huge influence on my journey as an artist. I appreciate the insight he shares with everyone.

The other problem with modern writing is that writers' personal/political beliefs are becoming the plot itself pretty much, and they're writing against or for certain agendas showing their deep biases or tainted/victimised worldview. Basically victim writers who have a chip on their shoulder and seem to want revenge against something. Stories arent engaging anymore or they're just crappy rehashes of 10 other things, that contains no proper story/ideas or morals or lessons to teach.

Love how that was broken down by them. Writing and even conversations between people in person seem like we are just trying to get through a quick sketch to get back to silence or on to the next sketch

The writing is great in those old movies from the 1940s before and after . In 1939 Citizen Kane,The Wizard of Oz and Gone with the wind came out. Human conversational interaction is really important for writers as well naturally ,but some writers today may lack much human interaction because people don't sit around and talk as a past time as people did in the past.

I've heard them say this before, it sounds like one of those pieces of advice you can get that is pure gold. Something that can draw a line of debarkation for the person receiving it if "before/after" you were aware of it. In my 47 years on this planet I can think of only a handful of examples of those types of lessons, they're not a common thing.

The way I see it is the main problem is that previous filmmakers where inspired by stories, modern filmmakers are inspired by older films. Somewhere along the way 'story' got lost.

I was blessed to have a good teacher in film school that DRILLED this into me. Unfortunately, 99% of the students couldn’t understand it what it meant.

OMG, when Alan made the statement about taking your toys to the backyard...he NAILED IT. That's exactly how I feel when I watch any show today.

They need to do a Masterclass on comedy. They’re so important to what comedy eventually became.

When they were talking I was just thinking of Episode 9. Thanks for the validation.

Modern film and TV characters lack true motivation. That's what turns "and then" into "there for". Why did the character do that in this scene. It can't be just "to get to next scene" ..

It's even more evident as i watch older movies, even just from the '80s and '90s. Even films that weren't so great were still at least competently put together, and we just took that for granted.

5:08 literally all I could think of was The Last Jedi

Thank you Chris! Great video.

One thing that I was thinking about Falcon and the Winter Soldier was how it felt like every other scene felt like it was missing the most important part of the scene. Like they wrote down the bullet points of what they wanted from the characters and the plot, and then filmed of that without fleshing out any of their bullet points.

"Therefore and but," so simple and effective.

Modern writers have forgotten the archetypes. My advice is for them to read more Jung and Freud. Stop making propaganda and get back to making ART!

Boy this confirms things. Good acting won’t overcome bad writing. And crying on command? Being constantly mildly hungover is my only tip.

Derek Connolly, Colin Trevorrow, J. J. Abrams, & Chris Terrio: "Somehow Palpatine returned."

Thanks! Learning something new everyday.

Excellent point, thank you..

“And then this happens” perfectly describes the Lost TV series.

I think one problem with the Disney Star Wars, especially Ahsoka, is it isn’t getting behind the first beat to get to the therefore part. The whole series was just, “these things are happening,” and know you get the therefore in the next series/movie. Everything at this point is just the prologue to the next thing instead of a story on its own.

Thank you!

"And then" is such an easy trap to fall into. It's so easy to fall into it without even realizing it. "And then" isn't just a product of laziness born out of not wanting to work hard, but also becoming too comfortable in the setting. As our skills improve, which this can apply to just about anything, there is a tendency to not question the work that we just did. I found that I missed typos and other grammar based errors even in 3rd or 4th revisions of essays I have put up on my blog, which is strength training based but has other subjects on there. One helpful tact I use when writing is to read whatever I have written out loud to hear if it makes sense and/or says what I want it to. That normally catches most of the typos and grammatical errors, but I just have to remind myself to do it more often.

"And then" doesn't generate juxtaposition, conflict, contradiction. Well said.

IIRC Shatner's said his pauses in TOS were usually him trying to remember the next line, because they never had enough time to properly rehearse

we need more anti-woke film critics like Chris & Alan

Joey Tribbiani's 'smell the fart acting' is the best version of the pause 😅

Shatner is a national treasure Chris. He’s a Shakespearean trained actor. Hence the way he would glide across the set of Star Trek. He was playing a captain while projecting himself as the Captain. 😂 The clip of Trey and Matt must be sent to Alex Kurtzman. Because if you’ve ever seen him in an interview he is of the school, “and then”.

'Shatner was pausing for dramatic effect!!' 'Nah, he just forgot his lines.'

Good on the guy for defending Shatner. Most actors that pause ARE looking for the line, but not Bill Shatner. He's the greatest TV actor of all time. Kirk, Denny Crane, and Terror at 20 thousand feet are proof.

In a world of tyranny and dictatorship, satire is like an atomic weapon . The moment you stop being outraged and laugh at it, laugh it out of existence , woke has no sense of humour

I suppose this is an extension of Chekhov's gun, expect we are not ensuring everything in a scene has a purpose; we have to ensure the whole scene has a purpose.

You described Chekov’s gun - if you see a gun in the first act it has to go off in the third.

Every writer needs to watch those two minutes before they write anything. Even Disney messes this up. The new Little Mermaid movie is my most recent example to the atrocity of retooling or lazy writing. In the scene where Ariel saves Eric from the burning ship, she is surrounded by fire in the water. Then, the first song she songs in her head, one of the new additions, she sees fire and acts like she's never seen it before. I was baffled that they put that in there because she just saw fire 20 minutes ago. And you can't explain it away by saying that Ursula took her memories, because she only took the memory of having to kiss Eric to get her voice back. Writing these days is terrible, and that is why South Park, and all other projects that Trey Parker and Matt Stone are involved wroth are so great and flow well.

Once again, Gen X has to swoop-in and remind people a. Yes, we exist, and b. You think because you grew up with the Internet, that everything before that is junk. Wrong. Trey and Matt are just illustrating that human truths and classic story models are connected and will never be “ick” or “cringe”.

It's funny watching the students quickly scribble down the 'but/therefore' note, as though it's an answer to be studied for a test, rather than a fundamental necessity for writing. Like, if that rule didn't get hardened into your very soul in that moment, get out the room.

That was spectacular advice, and elegantly formed, too. The therefore/but creates a story. The and-then creates nothing more than a shopping list. Basically what they're doing is forcing themselves to make each individual part of the story causally linked. That cool thing in the third act happens _because of_ something that was started all the way back in act 1, and has been building up speed ever since. It's the story equivalent of taking a hand-sized snowball and setting it down at the top of a hill. With nothing more than a line of "therefores", when it reaches the bottom of the hill that snowball will be bigger than you are. That's the true essence of a genuine story. Each new little detail packs onto the greater whole as it gains speed and power.

WoW, a real eye opener about current shows

Can Matt and Trey please be given a Star Wars show? And leave them alone!

Younger writers grew up not reading much.

It's so simple it hurts. Obviously, in practice the "therefore or but this" transition between beats takes a lot more thought and more thorough understanding of the big picture. But if you practice this line of thought throughout your early years in writing it should become second nature as you really hit the groove of your career. Much like Trey and Matt's trajectory. Start simple, actively learn more and pay attention to what causes you to get lazy in writing sometimes and fix that problem. FFS never give into it. Or you'll end up like what we have today rampaging through some of the most valuable IPs in cinema history controlled by some of the biggest production companies. Once you get to that level, you need to know your shit or it will be on blast to the planet that you don't. Thanks for the content guys! This was really nice to watch.

Bro on top cam be rockin' the "There's Something About Mary" hairstyle.

It's probably worth pointing out that Parker and Stone are also mostly writing for fast-moving, twenty-two minute animated comedy. Especially for a longer work, pacing is important. But even moments that aren't "and then-! and then-! and then-!" should still be doing *something* , even if it isn't driving the main plot arc along. Show who your characters are when they're *not* in the thick of a crisis, or fill out what brought them there, or tell a side-story that enhances the viewer's understanding of the greater situation. Don't just fold your arms and wait for plot to catch up.

Modern Hollywood writers rooms sound like they are mimicking the evidence meeting in 'Pee-wee's Big Adventure'.. 😂.. it's like you're unraveling a big cable knit sweater that someone keeps knitting and, knitting and, knitting and, knitting..😂

Trey and Matt's writing style is why South Park remains fresh after all this time.

I've done a fair bit of audio post and this is exactly what I see. But I use the "and then" voice from the drive-thru in "Dude Where's My Car". Bad Robot is guilty AF for producing these and then movies.

The video game term Chris is looking for is "fetch quest".

New writers, fresh out of college demand to be hired so they can self insert and put their ideologies into the cinema because they’re full of themselves.

great explanation of cause and effect

Jerry Stiller, who played Frank Costanza (among many many other great roles in film and the stage), had a hard time remember his lines on Seinfeld. When you see him pause with silence, with a filler word, or physical action, he’s desperately trying to remember what line is next.

Wow. So simple and powerful.

A missed opportunity to plug a clip from “Dude where’s my car?” from that drive-thru scene of him repeatedly saying “no and then!”

absolutely spot on!

To be fair to Lucas, he tried to get others to direct the PT. They all basically said "only you can direct SW George" I guess out of respect or something. He didn't want to direct them.

Love this video

This is what makes Andor so compelling.

Joey, on Friends, called it "smell the fart acting" whenever you dramatic pause to remember your lines

1:55 William Shatner himself, joked that his dramatic pauses, were to do exactly that... because he was trying to remember his next line.

It’s not that they don’t understand classic story telling, it’s that they don’t respect it, and believe in subversion and irony for it’s own sake, and where it’s not appropriate.

Thanks

I used to work in the games industry, and the worst part of it was always the sophomoric writing. Somehow, no one else seemed to notice, and I remember thinking, "I guess the movie industry gobbles up all the good writers." Now, the movies are worse than games were then, and the games industry, well...

Chris Gore being muted was the best part of this video

Crying on command is easy you just have to remember something that makes you so happy you cry. The issue is no one lets themselves open up to feel happy.

Oddly enough, there is an interview with Tarantino who uses the exact same language to describe the writing on Pulp Fiction... AND THEN Butch runs into a pawn shop with Marcellus following, they have a brief altercation BUT THEN the shop keeper pulls out a shotgun... Each of the AND THENs are the flow of the action and the BUT THENs are the twists to the action ... The little surprises that keep the audiences attention...

>Chris trying to shit on based Kirk >Alan shuts that shit down quick

I was almost with you guys. Every department in movie making is lacking discipline from writers, directors, and actors. Even marketing sucks now.

It sounds like they are describing a cause and effect. An action happens and this is the consequence of that action.

Don’t mess with The Shat! 😂

I was thinking of this clip the entire time I was watching rebel moon.

Try and Matt are so great! Good info.

I'm wondering if studios are looking for the next "prestige" series like Game of Thrones (first 5 seasons) Breaking Bad, the Wire, the Sopranos or Mad Men. These shows broke with the style of TV from before 2000 and made a whole season dedicated to an overarching narrative. These new Disney+ shows seem to want to do the same thing, but there isn't a show runner with vision to push back against studio interference and we end up with...very diluted entertainment product.

are they making a dude where's my car joke? "And then,...No and then!...." or is dude where's my car the real secret to success in hollywood?

Exactly!!

Trey is a brilliant writer. Everything he writes turns to gold. It's not surprising but good to see him giving back to the new writers. They actually should have adjunct positions at whatever college is the best for writing as they have golden advice like this. 2 mins is all they needed though I'd love to see the full class.

Thank you trey and matt for taking the time to educate our students. Next we have the family guy manatees I mean writers! To teach you how to write a good well made family guy episode! (Applause) 😅

Wow, that short clip from Matt and Trey was amazing. It explained so much in just a few sentences. Saying that after each story beat you should say "therefore" or "but..." means that the previous and next story beats have purpose. If you only say "and then" they have no meaning and are just meaningless things that do not have purpose. So much of what we get today in movies are just collections of events. There's not a story, it's just a collection of things that happened. I know most people loved Dune - I didn't. I do agree it's wonderfully made. Looks amazing, great acting, wonderful cinematography and sound design. My problem is the Dune movie (part 1) is not a complete story. It just stops. That's not how stories work. You can't just cut a story in half and call it part 1. Even cliff-hangers should be full stories. I was a 10 year old kid when Empire Strikes Back came out and it killed me knowing I had to wait 2-3 years to find out what happens. It was a cliff-hanger but Empire was still a very satisfying story by itself. We didn't get that with Dune. Dune basically just stops. The issue isn't that Dune is a cliff-hanger, the issue is it's not a full story. Of course that's because it's adapted from the book. A single book (aka story) that was just cut in half. I hope the 2nd movie is just as high quality so I can connect them myself and have one amazing story to watch but for now it's just lacking. *** For idiots who are going to complain saying "Dune would be a 5 hour movie if you did it as one story.... REEEEEE". Yes, I know. As a member of the audience that's not my problem. That's their problem as the movie makers. They either should have made this as one long story or created a more satisfying adaptation to the end of part 1 to make it resolve into a complete story.

the biggest problem in hollywood is not writing but I get where this is coming from

Somebody tag director x!😂

EXACTLY!

Wow. They literally described Disney Star Wars

Can you imagine the number of brilliant writers there are out there who will never be heard and totally get this. The only reason they will never been heard is because they aren't with the Hollyweird in crowd. Let's hope that changes.

This 7 minute 30 second video is a completely perfect dismantling of the entire "superhero, Space Odyssey" movie genre. There are plenty of other genres that suck too, but the blockbuster hero movies and shows suck because of this exact problem. They are written like bad video game scripts.

Once upon a time in Hollywood and The Gentleman

I want to know what is going to happen next with Alan's dog. Will it finish its chew toy before the end of the livestream? Good writing. Chris and Alan are making good points about modern Hollywood writing, but, the dog has me more riveted, therefore I want to seek out the rest of the video.

If you use that technique with how Vince Gilligan and Peter Gould it makes a lot of sense. They certainly used this technique for Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul.

Pacers are the one that I miss the most. Also Toffos

Many comedy writers are taught "yes and" from Improv class....wonder if this phenomenon is leading to this style of writing?