Spicy O'Clock: 68040 Macintosh Overclocking [2 of 2]

Рет қаралды 2,520

Күн бұрын

I reveal the Secret Sauce to high-speed 68040 CPU overclocks and test new (Mar. '22) low-latency 60ns VRAM. Heatsinking, CPU fans, and gaming speed comparisons at 40.7 & 50.1 MHz are also shown. (Part I video: • Spicy O'Clock: 68040 M... )
🔎 INDEX
0:00 - Intro
0:32 - Secret Sauce
8:48 - Heatsinking the CPU
10:52 - Fan Cooling the CPU
19:24 - Faster CPUs with FPU
20:51 - Even Faster VRAM & New Spicy Mount!
23:21 - High Overclock Testing (51.6MHz unstable)
27:34 - 50.1MHz (stable)
33:15 - After 4 Months of Testing
36:58 - 50.1MHz Game Testing
47:33 - 40.7MHz Game Testing
56:42 - Conclusion
59:59 - Family Medical Emergency Update
1:01:41 - Final Words & Thanks
🛒 BUY
• Spicy O'Clock: bit.ly/3rTXzTG
• New Mystic Back Panel & Spicy Mount: bit.ly/3x4tcx0
• OS-CON capacitor Links in text description under Recap video: • Recapping the LC575 My...
• Serial Cable (to make loop-back plugs for Snooper2): amzn.to/3znGeXn
See my post on TinkerDifferent for details: tinyurl.com/26se46jw
• 60ns Low Latency 512K VRAM (Kay Koba, up to 50.3MHz): bit.ly/35mLBd5
• 60ns 512K VRAM (Mr. Fahrenheit, up to 49.2MHz): bit.ly/36sSsCi
• 60ns 512K VRAM (Drake/BetterBit, up to 49.2MHz): bit.ly/3LTNoa3
• UT Source 68040 CPUs (faked-markings possible): www.utsource.net/itm/p/891703...
• Noctua 40x10mm Fan: amzn.to/3tNXzWy
(NOTE! See "🔩 FAN MOUNTING SCREWS" below.)
• 45x45x10mm Gold-tone Aluminum Heatsink pack: amzn.to/3sBse7u
• Thermal Tape (50mm wide): amzn.to/3IMevkw
• Thermal Tape (same 20mm width as mine but different brand): amzn.to/3JR2HPg
OR instead of Thermal Tape, try this new Heatsink Clip with your favorite thermal paste...
• Heatsink Clip compatible with the above Gold-tone heatsinks: bit.ly/3KoojCS
• 64MB KEYSTRON RAM (for LC575/Mystic): ebay.to/3rZjIjE
• Torx T15 with LONG neck (to open Mac): amzn.to/2ScAskx
• Hakko Soldering Station (to install Spicy): amzn.to/3ArxBJ6
💁‍♂️TIP: Use 350°C & Leaded solder.
• Solder (Leaded Rosin Core 0.8mm): amzn.to/3GzJbVl
🔩 FAN MOUNTING SCREWS
• Machine screws (bolts): amzn.to/3ua5gWV
• Nuts: amzn.to/3QVB4s1
If either of the above go out of stock, here are the specs to find substitutes:
• Metric Size: M3-0.5 (M3=shaft diameter, 0.5=thread pitch, see below)
• Head Diameter: 5.3mm (much wider won't fit in the fan screw holes)
• Shaft Length (excluding head): 15mm
• Shaft Diameter: 3mm
• Thread Pitch: 0.5mm
• Type: Stainless Steel
💵 NOTE: Your price on Amazon (US only) is the same even if you don't click the "amzn.to" Affiliate links above, but if you do click & purchase within 24 hours, Amazon may pay me a small commission on qualifying items in your Cart.
💾 SOFTWARE
• My 1.4MB System 7.1 Boot Disk Image (for Mystic): bit.ly/3wVDmzM
• Clockometer 2.0.3 (DL#4): bit.ly/3uBMg4y
• Doom II: bit.ly/3tN708H
• Marathon: bit.ly/36UgyFM
• Dark Forces: bit.ly/3qLrNrb
• Wolfenstein 3D: bit.ly/3NGkCdV
• Duke Nukem Atomic: bit.ly/3NztnpS
• MacBench 3: bit.ly/35TNhdN
• Speedometer 4.02: bit.ly/34Snqmd
• Norton Utilities 3.5.3 (System Info): bit.ly/33oW5aS
• Photoshop 4.0: bit.ly/3tVPBdS
📚 REFERENCE
• CALCULATOR for Spicy's Potentiometer Setting: stephen-arsenault.github.io
• Potentiometer is 10% tolerance: bit.ly/3qSgm0Z
• My Benchmark Results (updated): bit.ly/3qTVEh8
• Intro to Spicy O'Clock: amba.to/3H66PJ7
• Manual for Spicy: bit.ly/3GWCXyu
• Main IC on Spicy (LTC1799): bit.ly/42BHzXs
• Stephen Arsenault's Open Source VRAM design: bit.ly/3BlDSHC
• TinkerDifferent thread about remarked/fake CPUs: bit.ly/3JtOiIb
• 68040 Mask info (scroll to "Masks" section): bit.ly/3oehISp
• More 68040 Mask Info: bit.ly/3ottjNn
• Power Mystic video by @Action Retro: • Building the Legendary...
🙏 MY SINCERE THANKS to these recent Paypal contributors:
• Ken Colangelo
• Mauro Acciaccaferri (monthly supporter)
• Fred in Atlanta (double thanks for a double donation!)
• Connor from San Francisco (big thanks!)
• Eric Helgeson (BlueSCSI creator: bit.ly/3NvkayW )
💰HOW TO SUPPORT THIS CHANNEL
www.paypal.me/supportJDW
(If you do very kindly donate, it would be a wonderful help if you could let me know if I have permission to use your full name, or use something like John in Texas, when I give you public thanks in a future video. Pronunciation help is also appreciated!)
📺 Please SUBSCRIBE:
kzfaq.info?sub_c...
🎬 MY VIDEOS
/ jdw26
🎶 All music in the ending segment from Duke Nukem Atomic. (Game link in SOFTWARE section above.)
#Macintosh #ColorClassic #Overclocking #JDW

Пікірлер: 83

@JDW- 2 жыл бұрын

• 4/20/22: Mr. Fahrenheit has made it easier to order his super-fast 60ns VRAM (limited supply): bit.ly/36sSsCi • 4/8/22: Alexandre Marcoux made an amazing 3D printed clip that's compatible with the 45x45x10 gold heatsink I recommend. It eliminates the need for thermal tape and allows you to use great thermal paste instead, like Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut! Check it out here: github.com/alxlab-zone66x/68040_Heatsink_Clip • 4/5/22: Correction of my verbal blunder at 30:26 : I say "Previously, I was only able to 42.9MHz." I should have said "49.2MHz." Thanks to Mr. Fahrenheit for noticing my error!

@ActionRetro 2 жыл бұрын

Such an incredible result. Thank you for linking all of this stuff!

@JDW- 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you! I look forward to hearing your overclocking results whenever you ultimately decide to give Spicy a try. Don't forget the OS-CON caps though!

@CloudSpecter 2 жыл бұрын

The quality of your video's are just top notch!

@JDW- 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much for your kind words, Nixie!

@Mr.Fahrenheit_451 2 жыл бұрын

Awesome video! Great content. A lot of work went into this project. As always, exceptionally thorough.

@JDW- 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you very much, my friend!

@insanelydigitalvids 2 жыл бұрын

Another well researched and presented video. Clearly a lot of time and effort taken to produce this. Geeked-to-the Max!

@JDW- 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for your kind words. I'm thrilled to hear you liked the video. If you ever get a Spicy O'Clock to accelerator some of your 040 Macs, I'd love to hear your results.

@KenColangelo 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the mention! You got the name right the second time. That's way better than usual. Glad to support your work!

@JDW- 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for confirming, and for your kind support, Ken! I appreciate it very much!

@ph2869 2 жыл бұрын

Always the best, most complete videos in this genre

@JDW- 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@wishusknight3009 2 жыл бұрын

I second that..

@FrankConforti Жыл бұрын

Excellent job on this series AND on your channel. I love your approach to overclocking. Your attention to the electrical engineering approach is a nice respite from the state of the art channels where it’s about what water pump someone’s using and what FPS they can get. I think the challenge of squeezing out acceptable performance from 1990s technology is just as valuable. Your approach is spot on. A few of my suggestions (maybe addressed in later videos) is the cooling and power supply side of the equation. First and foremost, Apple has never been known to pay attention to heat dissipation through airflow. “Good enough” is still their motto today(think Cube and Trash Can as examples). On the power side, the power supply in the compact Macs has always been on the hairy end of failure. When one power supply is driving both a CRT and all of the computing hardware, floppy, hard drive, etc, there is a high probability the quality of the power provided by the system is not on par with even same time period non-Apple computers. There’s still room to kick the Mystic higher without resorting to liquid nitrogen. Then again, that’s not what we are here for. Thanks for the hard work and high quality and educational videos.

@JDW- Жыл бұрын

I sincerely appreciate your having made time to offer me such kind words and wonderful feedback. Have you seen my follow-up video about improved heat sinking of the 040? kzfaq.info/get/bejne/eNGIe8tkzNjNeqs.html I have since acquired yet another full FPU 68040. This one is rated for 40MHz and is genuine. The one I show in my Spicy videos is also rated for 40MHz as per the silkscreen, but I suspect that is fake. Even so, it does, as you see in my video, overclock beyond 49MHz. I installed the new 40MHz CPU and just the basic gold aluminum heatsink using 2-sided thermal tape and a C-clamp. I tested for a number of days, sometimes 24 hours continuous. Until yesterday, it was rock solid at 50.0MHz. However, that testing has all been done during the winter here in Japan. Often times, my room's ambient temperature is 12-15°C -- too cold for me, really! But yesterday when my body couldn't take the cold anymore, I turned on the overhead A/C and the temperature rose to about 24°C. It was then I started noticing the pixel dust artifacts that are indicative of VRAM being too slow. What I need to do next is get myself a meter that has a data logging feature and then graph the 5V and 12V rails, tapping at the CPU on the motherboard, to see how those voltages react over time and temperature. That would really be the only way for me to figure out what's going on. Overclocking to the highest speeds is both a rewarding and frustrating experience. But overall, I find it rather fun, and if I can film some of this work to help others enjoy it too, that makes the effort even more worthwhile! Take care!

@drywinddotnet 2 жыл бұрын

Welcome back JDW!! What is it about the joy of accelerators on vintage Macs? To be honest, its an age-old fascination. After begging my parents money for a new Mac SE back in 1989, it was only weeks before I was working overtime to buy a less than spicy '020 accelerator. Now all these year later . . . JDW shares the joy :-)

@JDW- 2 жыл бұрын

A very nice summary of my own past! My first Mac was the 128K in 1984 when I was 13. I scrimped and saved in the months and years following to upgrade that Mac to the latest and greatest. I then bought a IIvx in college, only to scrimp and save $1,000 so I could later swap the slow motherboard for a Quadra 650 board which was vastly better. I later brought that Quadra with me to Japan when I moved here in 1994, and later sold it to my then employer for $1200 because they put a Nubus card in it so as to make it into a 24/7 fax server. Japan loves its faxes even today, so I wouldn't be surprised if that Mac is still serving up data on paper! All said, the last 4 months of testing Spicy O'Clock have been amazing fun, and my two videos on the subject only show a small part of it. But the great thing about the Color Classic is that there are still so many more fun upgrades to do. Of course, I will show those too in future videos.

@smilespray 10 ай бұрын

Thanks for explaining why low ESR is important! I always wondered about that. Also, why don't you have more viewers? You make top quality videos.

@JDW- 10 ай бұрын

Thank you for your kind words. Unfortunately, more than half of my viewers find my videos only because KZfaq occasionally will recommend my videos to them. But because I always keep ads switched off, I have the feeling that KZfaq doesn’t like me. The algorithm most likely doesn’t recommend my videos as much because of that. But I keep them switched off because it really wouldn’t make me much money anyway, and it would simply annoy viewers, especially because I have long videos. And perhaps that’s yet another reason for a low viewer account. Many younger people today complain when the video is longer than five or so minutes. I’ve had people comment on a one hour video saying, “you could’ve said all that in three minutes.“ Of course, I couldn’t. But it seems clear there are a lot of people here on KZfaq which have certain expectations that I don’t completely satisfy. But that’s fine with me because I’m not driven by analytics. I just try to make good videos and hope people will find them useful. I’m glad you did! Best wishes.

@smilespray 10 ай бұрын

@@JDW- I see! I pay for KZfaq to avoid the ads so I wasn't able to tell you've got ads turned off. Have you got a professional broadcasting background? There are a few aspects of your production that hint that you're not just "a guy who bought a decent camera"...

@JDW- 10 ай бұрын

@smilespray I do all of the product photography and videography for my employer in Japan. I’ve actually been doing that kind of work for most of the time that I’ve been in Japan, since 1994. Of course, I’m an electrical engineer by trade, so photography and videography is basically just a hobby. I never went to school for that. I’m entirely self taught. But making something look good is quite hard and very time-consuming. For example, my latest video about custom ROM SIMMs took me 7 weeks to produce. KZfaq isn’t my day job, and that’s a big reason why I cannot release videos as frequently as most other KZfaqrs can. Maybe someday I can do it full-time. I enjoy the work.

@smilespray 10 ай бұрын

@@JDW- That would explain it. I used to do product photgraphy in the 90s. Your lighting, backdrops, framing, cleanliness and focus control are on point!

@JDW- 10 ай бұрын

@@smilespray Not sure if you can tell, but I actually am not using any professional lighting in my videos. I shoot after-hours in the office, when everyone is gone home. (I am allowed to do that.) All flourescent overhead lighting (the long tubes), which is diffused light. I also put a white, felt sheet on the table in front of me (out of camera view) to reflect the light up and back at me. It works fairly well. The black background is also a felt sheet. I actually just hang it up on a whiteboard using magnets. I then crush the blacks when I edit in FCPX, which makes the background go mostly black. It's distraction free and allows me to put text on my left and right too.

@ymkdevices4052 2 жыл бұрын

Very nice video, and impressive results for an 040. For attaching heatsinks, I use normal thermal paste in the center and a dot of thermal adhesive on each corner. Apply pressure and let it set overnight. To remove the heatsink, place the chip in the freezer for a while. The glue will become brittle and you can easily pry it off. Any residue left over can be shaved off with a razor. Good find on the OS-CONs. I wonder how much faster you could go by bumping up the 5V rail a bit, though it could be risky.

@JDW- 2 жыл бұрын

Excellent tip about the combined use of thermal paste and adhesive, thank you! Currently, one member of the TD forum has created a 3D printable clip that seems interesting, for those people who want to avoid any kind of adhesive at all: github.com/alxlab-zone66x/68040_Heatsink_Clip I too have been thinking about the voltage and agree a slightly bump on the 5V rail might have a benefit. My next video series will be on the Kai Robinson SE Reloaded motherboard build, but after that I've been thinking about doing my SCSI to SD card solutions video, where I revisit MacSD and also show BlueSCSI too, both being tested on my accelerated Color Classic Mystic. I also have access to a PowerMac 9600 with 400MHz G4 upgrade card installed, so it might be interesting to show benchmarks from that machine as well, just to illustrate how a fast 1990's PPC tower compares to one of the world's fastest 68k Macs. Lots more fun to come!

@VIDEODAD 2 жыл бұрын

waiting a minute while a computer starts up is just part of the time travel experience

@JDW- 2 жыл бұрын

Well, I've heard similar arguments about why the stock 16MHz 030 processor in the stock Color Classic motherboard is acceptable to some people. But of course, as you can see from my video, I'm wanting to time travel to faster speeds all around. And when you hit that glorious 50MHz, believe me, you won't miss the slowness of what you had before. Overclocking is awesome anyway you look at it! :-)

@bujin5455 2 жыл бұрын

Great video! Thank you for the effort. I really think upgrading the Color Classic to the 040 is really as far as it makes sense to go. If you go PPC then I have to wonder why bother with the CC at all? PPC is still VERY retro at this point, but the CC was not part of the PPC generation. I think what's cool about the mystic upgrade is that you can have pretty close to a peak 68000 Mac in a very distinct, very Apple, form factor which pays homage back to the original. Also, since the Mac was originally launched on the 68000 platform, having a CC Mystic is a very nice commemorative package, as it lets you go as far as you can go on the 68000 while remaining on the 68000. The cherry on all of this is the fact the 10 millionth Mac produced was a CC. If I wanted a PPC, I'd probably step up to a G3 iMac (you know, the computer that saved the company), which would have next level performance over anything you can force into a CC.

@JDW- 2 жыл бұрын

Exactly. But in terms of performance, even a 400MHz Takky (PPC) really isn't that fast. I've got a PowerMac 9600 with a 400MHz G4 upgrade CPU card installed, but it's still considerably slower than my 1.3GHz G4 Cube, which is my favorite PPC Mac because of its compact size and lovely aesthetics. (But you probably already knew I was a big Cube fan based on my logo. :-) All said, 68k Macs are very cool, and the Mystic update is indeed one of the best upgrades for the Color Classic. A lot of folks who own Classics are missing out, not because they can't find the LC575 motherboard, but because they think keeping the machine stock is the best way to go. It is if you leave it behind glass, but it isn't when you want to make practical use out of the machine like you and I do. Best wishes!

@bujin5455 2 жыл бұрын

@@JDW- I agree, of the G4 generation the Cube is the one to go with. The G4 is the generation that saw the arrival of Mac OS X, which is NextStep on the Mac, and the Cube is a Steve Jobs special that harkens back to the Next Cube. So it's the unity of Apple and Next (just like OS X is), and is emblematic of the Return of Jobs, and so it's the perfect icon for that part of Apple's history: Apple's pivot into modern computing, and return to relevance. I think my retro Apple collection would be: SE/30, Color Classic, G3 iMac, G4 Cube

@bujin5455 2 жыл бұрын

@@JDW- So if you were looking to buy a Color Classic, how would you go about find one?

@JDW- 2 жыл бұрын

@@bujin5455 EBAY, if you are in the US. Yahoo Auctions Japan, if you are in Japan. However, Buyee is a company that acts as a middle-man when it comes to Yahoo Auctions Japan, such that folks outside Japan can finally purchase items on Yahoo Auctions, which almost never ship directly overseas. Buyee makes the overall price higher, but at least they make it possible. All said, even if you aren't able to find something on EBAY in the US, you might be able to find it on Yahoo Auctions Japan. buyee.jp/yahoo/auction I typed in "Macintosh Color Classic" just now and spotted a Color Classic with the original boxes, currently with 8 bidders and a price of around US$80. No doubt the final price will be higher, but that's just one example for you.

@bujin5455 2 жыл бұрын

@@JDW- Wow, I didn't know about Beyee, that is really cool! Thanks for telling me about it! Do you happen to know how the auction system works? Is it like eBay's where you can put in your highest bid, and it'll auto increment your bid up to your limit, so you only pay the most required to win? Or is like more of a traditional auction experience where whatever you enter becomes the price immediately? Also, do you have any idea what the weight and dimensions are going to be on something like that? Google tells me that the color classic weighs 22.5lb (10.2kg), but I don't know how big the box is going to be. (The shipping starts going up fast once to get past 50cm x 50cm x 60cm.) I think the S&H cost could be what breaks this for me, but I'm having a really hard time even estimating them. (One example scenario I ran Buyee was estimating nearly $600 worth of shipping!)

@beardedgaming3741 2 жыл бұрын

so what exactly is the performance hit from PPC to 68K then? i guess i had assumed they were able to handle their coding natively but thats not the case? my first computer was a 68040 @33mhz. i just bought a PPC 603e in the same forum factor to enable me more access to newer games but will i run into issues now where older 68k games wont be able to run?

@JDW- 2 жыл бұрын

It's difficult to quantify the performance hit. To me, when running a 68K-only app emulated on a PPC, the speed feels so slow it's perhaps only 1/4 the speed of a native app. But it really depends on the app and the speed of the PPC processor. You seem to have a fast PPC processor, so the performance hit might only be 50% the speed of a native app.

@beardedgaming3741 2 жыл бұрын

@@JDW- i have a G3 250Mhz L2 cache upgrade card in the mail. will that cause me more issues with 68K programs?

@JDW- 2 жыл бұрын

@@beardedgaming3741 The faster your PPC processor, the faster the 68K app emulation will be. But if you can get NATIVE versions of your apps, then that is obviously best. I'm quite sure there was an app checker back in the day which could tell you if an app was 68K-only, PPC-only, or FAT (both). If I find it, I will post a link to it for you.

@JDW- 2 жыл бұрын

Here's the link to the app I just mentioned: macintoshgarden.org/apps/i-love-native-pro-v311

@wishusknight3009 2 жыл бұрын

My 66 mhz 601 with l2 and other tuning seems to perform slightly slower than my LC3 68030 at 25mhz in thin binary apps. So its not particularly fast. 1/4 is probably about right, if a little generous depending on what you run. It took a 604e at around 150mhz to surpass an 840AV in thin binary stuff. And that even included optimizations to the emulation code that the 601 would not have had. So it took some time to really come back from that change. Though most of the major software houses were pretty fast to support fat and native binary's.

@philippeastier7657 2 жыл бұрын

Fantastic video once again ! Are you aware of any 660AV overclocking possibility ? (BTW, I wish we could hep with your personal matter, which is most probably not possible, but if we can support your channel / videos in between, please shout, you are delivering so much for us)

@JDW- 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for your kind words. 660AV is not currently on the compatibility list, but I’m not sure what that means exactly. If you expand the text description you’ll find a link to the spicy o’clock product page and compatibility information where it says the “XC88916DW clock driver” is a chip on the motherboard which is key to compatibility. So you would need to check your motherboard for the clock driver chip you have. I would also suggest you have a look through the following thread in the Tinker Different forum because we discuss the clock driver chip there: tinkerdifferent.com/threads/spicy-oclock-project-has-started.128/page-2#post-6695

@philippeastier7657 2 жыл бұрын

@@JDW- Thanks for the answer ! I will have a look tomorrow (late for me here...). It's just part of a massive work I have started on my Apple collection, from 1977 Apple 2s, and about 30 68k Macs... lot's of recap, repairs, testing. The 660AV however (which has been recapped and works !) deservers more attention as it was the first Mac I bought myself. Anyway, we certainly all have a lot of stories like this.

@infinity5750 2 жыл бұрын

@@philippeastier7657 I am a developer. It may be uncertain, but I think it works. The 660AV crystal runs on half the CPU frequency. Therefore, I think Spicy will work in place of this. I don't know how much you can overclock, but give it a try your self. And I accepted the order from you earlier, but the shipping method was limited in your area and I sent an email about this issue. Please check immediately

@philippeastier7657 2 жыл бұрын

@@infinity5750 Hi Kay ! Will try anyway, which is why I ordered. The onboard controller is an MC88920. Reasons I could see for failure is the clock for the ATT3210 DSP. I don't see another generator and there are two crystals, one 12.500 MHz (for the CPU I guess), and one 55.500, which is for the DSP. Oddly enough, my Apple-shipped 040 is an XC68040RC33M, running at 25 MHz. All memory is 60 ns. Amongst other oddities, I have a ROM slot, which should have never been produced like that... As for the order I have only received confirmation from you, I will answer to this confirmation email.

@ukmk3supra 2 жыл бұрын

The thing that i find most astounding is actually how badly ported Wolfenstein and Doom are, on classic MacOS - there must be soooo much overhead or translation going on there. Wolfenstein 3D plays great on a 386DX33 with 4MB of RAM, so to see a 68040 at 50MHz with 36MB struggle so much, is just baffling. Dark Forces looks to have been coded much better, but there's still signs of tearing, showing that it's still a sub 30fps experience.

@JDW- 2 жыл бұрын

Very interesting, Kai. I didn't know those games played so much better on a 386. Pretty shocking actually. Thanks to Brad Chen here in the comments, I was able to get FPS to display in Marathon by means of typing Shift and ?. I am getting 5fps in full screen (640x480) and 12fps at the 100% setting (smaller window view) when my 040 with FPU is overclocked to 50.1MHz. I've not yet dropped the clock speed to 41MHz to see how badly the FPS at that speed. Not sure I want too! 😄

@ymkdevices4052 2 жыл бұрын

It's not exactly a fair comparison. The DOS versions only have to paint a 320x200 screen and Soundblaster/Adlib music doesn't take nearly as many CPU cycles as .mod or QT MIDI on the Mac.

@beardedgaming3741 2 жыл бұрын

are you aware of a cap kit for a 6360?

@JDW- 2 жыл бұрын

No, but I would recommend that you contact Console5, as they might be able to put a cap kit together, assuming they deem there to be sufficient interest in recapping that particular Mac: console5.com/store/contacts/

@beardedgaming3741 2 жыл бұрын

@@JDW- cool, just sent him a message. Thank

@wishusknight3009 2 жыл бұрын

At 50mhz you are looking at somewhere around 9 watts of heat while at work. And probably about 7 at rest. And the caps making that much of a difference probably says more about the power delivery circuitry than anything else. They built it to a price I guess. I surmise at 50mhz you are probably hitting limitations with the chipset though. Some of those 040 chips are hitting 55+mhz on amiga's on a regular basis. Where the main chipset runs decoupled at a fixed clock. If you were somehow able to increase the voltage very slightly on the cpu then you would probably find all the stability needed even on tantalums. Say 5.5 volts or so. But I don't know if you can achieve that without over volting every thing else on the motherboard, which would not be good. What I wished someone would have been able to do, is adapt the 060 cpu to work on these macs, sofar no one has ever gotten it to work. As far as family goes, that comes first always.. Keep yourself safe and keep your stick on the ice.

@JDW- 2 жыл бұрын

You're right. I do think the 040 needs a little over-volting, and because it doesn't have that, the caps are the only fall-back. And while it would be great if an 060 were somehow made compatible, what my brain is focused on now is to see how to high the highest 040 clocks, without pixel dust or Bus errors. Kay Koba said he might make a modified Spicy that goes beyond 52MHz, but VRAM speed would be a limiting factor, over and above the need to over-volt the CPU. We are currently talking about CPU cooling in this TinkerDifferent thread, if you want to join: tinkerdifferent.com/threads/spicy-oclock-project-has-started.128/post-7137

@wishusknight3009 2 жыл бұрын

@@JDW- Even beyond the Vram speed, it may be the graphics core and memory controller hitting the limits too. As they are all part of the same clock domain. Which will make having any further gains impossible. The Amiga community has socket interposers which allow for an independently clocked cpu and cache while the socket and below stay in spec. Heck they even have raspberry pi powered accelerators! Its really crazy. But it has sofar seemed nearly impossible to adapt anything for the mac's. The eco system is too closed in compared to the amiga. And one would need to manipulate the rom binaries and underlying OS quite a lot to make it work.

@JDW- 2 жыл бұрын

@@wishusknight3009 Speaking of the ROM, I certainly wish we had a hacked ROM on the LC575 Mystic board, akin to the ROM-inator II from BMOW. One of the biggest benefits to the modified ROM on the SE/30 is that it allows you to bypass the painfully slow RAM checking at cold boot. There is no separate ROM SIMM on the LC575, which makes ROM hacking a bit more difficult.

@wishusknight3009 2 жыл бұрын

@@JDW- Yeah that is the rough thing with my Centris 610 atm as well. I kept it to 20mb of ram mostly for that reason. The ram count with 68mb is about 40 seconds.

@DatBlueHusky 2 жыл бұрын

I just wish the ppc upgrade card was common for the 575, i want one

@JDW- 2 жыл бұрын

It's a great upgrade card in concept (assuming you were able to get one), but it doesn't seem to allow you to use System 7.1 anymore (7.5 and higher is what the URL below says), and a 66MHz PPC601 processor is about as slow as they come. True, you technically wouldn't have to emulate 68k because you can switch back to the 040 processor, but I recently played some 3D games on a 75MHz PM 6200 motherboard which was installed inside a Centris 630 chassis and it was not a pleasurable experience. You really need something on order of 300MHz or faster to get some thrills with PPC. You can build a Takky that fast, but no PPC upgrade card exists at that speed to my knowledge, which also allows use of the 040. lowendmac.com/2016/powerpc-601-cpu-upgrades-for-68040-macs-with-lc-pds/

@JDW- 2 жыл бұрын

I'm a pretty big 68K fan. While I do have PPC Macs, I'm not as thrilled by them. Although I will say that my 1.2GHz G4 Cube is perhaps one of the best PPC Macs in the line. The thing still looks modern and beautiful today in 2022, and the speed is good enough to run OS 9 very well, and it even runs OS X 10.4 Tiger well too. You wouldn't have the same experience on a slower 300MHz PPC chip though.

@wishusknight3009 2 жыл бұрын

@@JDW- I tried OS9 on my PPC 7100/66... Once I got my usual extentions installed and a couple things, It was something like 4:30 to boot to desktop once the screen lit. That extends to over 5 minutes if I use the onboard video and remove the L2 cache... I think that was 9.04 but can't remember now. I think I tried 9.1 and it would not update for some reason or other. So yeah, it was a very very very casual retro session. VERY casual.

@JDW- 2 жыл бұрын

@@wishusknight3009 I have an upgraded PowerMac 9600 at the office, and it takes several minutes to boot OS 9 too! The PPC 603 300MHz CPU card was removed and replaced by a PPC 604 running at either 450MHz or 500MHz (can't remember which). My 1.2GHz G4 Cube boots OS 9 much faster. Suffice it to say, you need a very powerful PPC chip to boot OS 9, and even more power to boot into OS X 10.4 Tiger (which my Cube can do).

@wishusknight3009 2 жыл бұрын

@@JDW- Yeah, and 9.22 is impossible on the pre-g3 macs without a huge wrestling match. which had quite a lot of optimizing done to it. It is actually quite eye opening how different 9.04 to 9.22 was. I only tried os9 on my 7100 because someone in the OS9 facebook group asked if it was possible and what it would perform like. So I got right to it, and only 6 hours later had it booting......... .. ... . ..... .. . . . . .

@beardedgaming3741 2 жыл бұрын

its amazing how well doom runs on there... i have a 160mhz ppc that can not run doom...

@JDW- 2 жыл бұрын

A 160MHz PPC should run it well at 640x480 resolution if and only if you are using the PPC NATIVE version of Doom II. If you have only the 68K version, then that would explain the slowness. Please also note that you should be able to display the frame rate by opening the Doom II preferences (in game) and changing the screen size. I showed a screenshot of that in my video. That doesn't work on the 68K version though, which is why I couldn't display frame rate on my Doom II testing in the video.

@bradkane 2 жыл бұрын

I assume your 160Mhz PPC is a Performa 6360, which is a typical 2nd gen PowerMac with PCI graphics. Any 2nd Gen PowerMac should be fast enough to run Doom at its highest settingsIn addition to JDW's recommendation to get the PPC binary/FAT version of Doom, and my recommendations to improve performance (stated in a comment above); I have another performance tip for low-end 2nd generation Power Macs: please set your AppleTalk to inactive, it will save a HUGE amount of overhead. My had a PowerMac 7200/120; and it can run Doom flawlessly at highest graphic details. BTW, if your 6360 doesn't have L2 cache, do get one.

@beardedgaming3741 2 жыл бұрын

@@bradkane i do not have an L2 cache card but i DO have a G3 250mhz expansion card for the L2 cache in the mail. i think i get it next week. i have the Radeon 9200 128MB PCI card as well, so i hope that i dont run into any bottlenecks due to this

@bradkane 2 жыл бұрын

for Marathon to show FPS data, try "Shift + ?"

@JDW- 2 жыл бұрын

Glorious. It works! Thank you, Brad! I am getting 5fps in full screen and 12fps at the 100% setting (smaller window view) when my 040 with FPU is overclocked to 50.1MHz.

@beardedgaming3741 2 жыл бұрын

@@JDW- i have a 6360 and get about 14fps in doom II with onboard video. i just put a 9200 Radeon in and get 35 fps now... if apple had just spent a bit more effort on their onboard video they could have REALLY had a great compact system. (also if they increased the bus speeds)

@JDW- 2 жыл бұрын

@@beardedgaming3741 At what pixel resolution and color depth are you using to get those frame rates? And are you playing Doom II in full screen (no data strip at bottom)?

@beardedgaming3741 2 жыл бұрын

@@JDW- correct, full screen. im at 256 color and 800x600

@JDW- 2 жыл бұрын

@@beardedgaming3741 I'm at 640x480 in my video (my max resolution), so if you were to drop your resolution to be the same as mine, you should be getting some incredible frame rates.