The conversation turning to the eyes in Nayos really hits home on a big point about the map, the Kryptis and the plot. They weren't written as demons, didn't live in a realm of dreams and we conducted a perfectly ordinary campaign to remove their leader. Their behavior was grating because they were SO human in their communication, values and even manners. Their power dynamics and organization structures. They come off as generic, and our response was generic. And generic rang hollow for demonic fantasy. In contrast, the idea discussed here about what those eyes could have been used for and how we could have undermined, subverted or hijacked them showed more instinct for lore building than I felt in this expansion. Equally how (like so many other things) the Eye from the Amnytas meta just disappeared, where it seemed and could have been more significant. They are capable of better, hence your instinct at what they might have been hinting at, but what got developed and delivered FELT like it massively missed the mark.

About Neyros. Neyros was crafted, we also blinded it, so what Eparch got back was a wounded creation. He would 100% have consumed it.

To me the most beautiful story isn't the narrative in itself (but I admit it failed in Nayos), but the music, the atmosphere, the sound design, the art in general - and I think to me personally Nayos was still an incredible experience because of how incredibly beautiful this weird, otherwordly place is, even though I didn't feel connection to the story. Listening to the ambience, the monotonous, creepy music, then hearing those snarling brass instruments, heavy percussion, electric guitars and cello, and also the incredible demonic chanting... And it all just so well connected with the visual aspect of the world every step of the way... (like for example in "The Beast Emerges" there is a musical call back to Nightfall's theme... the attention to detail is so extraordinary!!) As as said - story for me aren't just words, but all those hidden details, pieces of puzzles, the atmosphere - and it was especially superb in Nayos. It all was still incredible in the first 3 maps, but I love Nayos for the art - it's a visual and audial masterpiece. It really felt like an alien world. My greatest complain will always be that they off-screened Zojja's ascension and the plot of Nayos wasn't really engaging, but I forgive Anet, and I cannot wait for the future adventures.

About the maps: I feel like they really had a short deadline so they chose this path because let's face it, 60% of the expansions maps is sky/void, so not playable content. Amnytas feels so.. Big yet so empty because 80% is sky! About the details, I completely agree with fornax, although I'd add that the Wizard's tower has those details, which is nice at least. The rest is shallow in the map design department indeed.

The last three parts of the expansion felt rushed. I get the impression they spent more time on the first part, and then realised they were run out time for the rest.

Watching this on the 8th tells me that Jebro is gonna gush over the reveal.

I suddenly desire a jade bot mastery to draw power from the heart of the obscure instead of charging from batteries

53:00 I completely agree. If I'd done the meta before and end the story after, and if the story had parts of the meta in the instance as well, I would have rated it much higher. I was completely disappointed that Eparch staid in this form and I thought the spider comparisons were just metaphorical...and then did the meta

I'm glad that it was at least that the first expansion was something that can be largely ignored in the story. If something has to be a learning experience it's better if it's set apart from the main setting.

I'm just returning to GW2 after a 2 year hiatus - and I'm loving SotO! Sucks to hear that the release of the patches/maps sequence wasn't ideal.

The story has the feeling that it was written accordingly rather than as a whole. The initial drop was A -> B -> C -> etc -> End. The Nayos parts were A -> B -> C for each chapter rather than A -> B -> C -> etc -> End. In fact, it would have been a lot better if the entire story had been written as a whole, at least the major plot points, rather than "How does character A end up as X." If Isgarren at the end of SotO itself have had a throwaway line that saving Eparch from the jungle dragon was in hindsight his biggest rest. then the first memory would have made more sense in the story. I still have no clue about the motivations for any of the Kryptis. Trying to prevent something is a horrible motivation. What was the reason Eparch started eating the Kryptis? I have no idea. All I have is a hypothesis assembled from all the bits and bops found around. Eparch was afraid of being powerless due to his encounter with Modremoth, he found out that he could get more power by eating others, Isgarren then threw him out. Similar to Syndrome he started out as a fanboy of Eparch and grew to hate him while still admiring his strength, this would have been communicated better if Isgarren after seeing Eparch for the first time in centuries said, "Your new shape looks familiar, then again, you were always clinging to me. Because Eparch's Kryptis form is the Darker and Edgier Isgarren. If Eparch had then have flipped out and shouted something along the lines that there were no more dragons and that he now was stronger than Isgarren and had nothing to fear then the memories found for the achievement would have made all the sense in the world. Eparch's motivations for what he did would also have been revealed as him simply acting out of trauma, out of fear, which would be deeply ironic given the nature of the Kryptis. Peitha could then have sealed the deal when Eparch is defeated and he asks her to absorb his power with something along the lines of that his power is too deeply tainted by fear and it dies with him and he only be remembered as the shame of the Kryptis. As shown, it's just stuff happening for no rhyme or reason. Incorporation of the metas in the story, please! Rather than, "Fill green bar," it should have been "Complete meta before continuing." Finding no guards of value with Heithor makes no sense unless you do the meta first where you kill Ignaxious, Heithor has no guards since we kill him. Peitha using the arena without any threat makes no sense unless you've done The Fangs That Gnash and killed Knaebelung. "The 11th Hour"! makes no sense unless you've done "Into the Spider's Lair" since you confront an Eparch that has been weakened by his defeat there, and it makes no sense that five people can take down the hyper-powered Eparch.

I do think it is fair to compair GW2 to other mmorpgs even though it has a smaller team. They all compete for our time and our money. I believe it is unfair to claim that them having a smaller team should mean anything when it is not the community that demands the impossible - it is Anet who are constantly failing to deliver their own promised goals. As a consumer, if I have two weeks off and want to no-life a game, I can pay 10 euro more and simply play a new FFXIV expansion that on average has 50-60 hours of story, multiple dungeons, trials and extreme versions of a few trials simply on release. That is way more content for 35 in comparison to GW2's 25 euro expansion. Developers and teams are not our friends, and we should not just let them get away with bad content.

Great discussion but wtf does Donald Trump have to do with Gw2? Please focus on Guild Wars 2 and not your personal politics.