Cats are sexually mature at 6 months? So are humans at 10-13 years...

"cats are sexually mature at that age" makes me so angry... Do the people who say that also think it's okay for a 40-something year old guy to make a 12 year old girl pregnant? Many human girls /are/ sexually mature at that point.

For me the worst part of Spottedleaf's Heart is that the novella itself doesn't address how wrong their relationship is and that Thistleclaw's behavior is predatory, not love. I get that the story is told from Spottedpaw's point of view and she can't recognize the behavior because she's naive and impressionable, but from what I know no one of the adult cats was calling it out or trying to keep Thistleclaw away from her or warn her to keep away from him (Goosefeather might have been the only one, but that's not good enough...) Warriors has included dark and uncomfortable themes from child labor to domestic abuse and personally I don't mind if the series tackles these issues, but given that kids do read these books, it's incredibly important to make the morality crystal clear in these situations. Still, even if it had been made clear in the novella that the relationship was sick and wrong, the theme is still risky. I admire Vicky's ambition to want to tackle something like this, but unfortunately she failed horribly with the delivery.

The idea that Thistleclaw organized a massacre on RiverClan and/or tried to kill Willowbreeze would have been interesting. So, if I had to rewrite Thistleclaw’s story, here is how it would go: Thistleclaw was mostly a normal kit and apprentice, though he had ambition and temper issues. He also had a friendship with Bluepaw and Snowpaw. But when Sweetpaw was killed in a battle for Sunningrocks, Thistleclaw became more demented. Snowpaw was there to comfort him and they both fell deeply in love with each other. His friendship with Bluefur faltered though, and they never really talked anymore. Things played out mostly the same, but Thistleclaw would be more cold and distant to every cat except Snowfur. He terrorized kittypets though, and Bluefur of course witnesses this. She was angry at Thistleclaw, but she knew nobody would believe her. Overtime his hatred for RiverClan grew. He started killing RiverClan cats and dumping their bodies into the river. The other Clans couldn’t figure out who did it, and that called the killer, or Thistleclaw, “Blood River”, since he only targeted RiverClan. Bluefur tried to figure out this mystery with the help of Crookedstar and Oakheart. Then when Snowfur died, Thistleclaw grew even worse. He organized a massacre on RiverClan with the help of some rouges. They attacked RiverClan, and when Thistleclaw was about to kill Willowbreeze next to the waterfall falling into the gorge when Crookedstar stopped him. They had a huge fight, and Thistleclaw fell into the waterfall and died. Rumors were started about him that his soul haunted the river and he would try drown any half-breeds or kittypets, which was started after the body of a kittypet was found in the river shortly after his death. In the Dark Forest, he trained cats and all that stuff. But when the Great Battle came, Thistleclaw attempted to kill Dovewing by drowning her, but Snowfur rescued Dovewing and she and Thistleclaw had a huge fight, and with the help of Dovewing, Thistleclaw was killed, ending his horrific reign forever. His story would be portrayed in Crookedstar’s promise and Bluestar’s Prophecy, and possibly a novella of his own. Spottedleaf’s story would be about a whole different plot or a more elaborate emphasis on her and Firestar’s relationship to make it more believeable.

Honestly what I think would be a better way to write out Spottedleaf's heart is that Spottedpaw and Thistleclaw decide to become mates once Spottedpaw is a warrior. but starts falling in love with someone else, causing Thistleclaw to start abusing her to get her to stay his future mate, going so far as to murder Spotted's other love interest. To escape his abuse, she becomes a med cat. Much better. :3

Crookedstar x Willowbreeze's age gap isn't that bad, I think if Crookedstar had a normal life and his apprenticeship wasn't delayed he would probably be an older apprentice or a very young warrior (like, I just got my warrior name yesterday youn) when Willowbreeze was born, so it's not that bad. At lest it isn't Pinestar and Leopardfoot.

Honestly I think that as long as long as they are both are warriors when they become mates, aka old enough to make their own decisions, they are fine, I mean it happens all the time in our world. that's why I absolutely hate Thistle trying to become mates with Spotted. She was an apprentice. Alright so its a plot point to add to her character... BUT it aS handled so poorly that it made me wanna puke. At least put a throwaway line about it being not OK. Do the Erins realize who they make these books for? so congrats Erins, This is officially the only thing in a franchise I count as not cannon. Just standing ovation to you. Thistle was my favorite character and still is, and I hope they finally get a REAL reason why he's in the dark forest.

I just imagine other Dark Forest cats asking Thistleclaw: "So? What did you do to get here? Did you murder the previous deputy in order to take their place? Or maybe you went on killing spree in order to get a revenge for something? Perhaps, you manipulated other clans into fighting each other? Trained underage apprentices until they all died?" To which Thistleclaw replies: "Nah, I just dumped my girlfriend".

"Goodness me, I was NOT anticipating that strength of reaction to Spottedleaf's Heart! I did warn you that I'd found the balance of the story hard to get right: I wanted to explore Spottedleaf's character more thoroughly, and show how she ended up becoming a medicine cat, but I also wanted to hint at just how bad Thistleclaw really was. I am intrigued by the twin themes of criticism, that I have never really proved why Thistleclaw deserved to go to the Dark Forest, and that I have included something as nasty as a very young apprentice being approached by a much older warrior. Well, this is why Thistleclaw was consigned to the Place of No Stars. For Spottedleaf, becoming a medicine cat was also finding a place of sanctuary from cats with confusing, sinister motivations and ulterior motives. Huge thank you purrs to everyone who has commented here and elsewhere. Your passion for these books leaves me breathless, as always. Do bear in mind that I only work on the novellas now - I'm not part of the editorial team that creates the books in the main series, so I'm afraid I can't talk about Shattered Sky. Warriors has the best fans in the worlds - with the loudest voices and (sometimes) the sharpest claws! Be safe, precious Clanmates. Love, Vicky x" An actual post from vicky's facebook, she didn't really put thistle in a relationship with spotted cause she thought it was cute, she wanted to show people why he was sent to the dark forest. But hey thought i'd just point this out.

The thing is if you didn't get the book you didn't get the other 2 good novellas, plus reading this book means I can make a long review :) I think the Erin's do care though because shattered sky was an amazing book, hawkwings journey was really good, vision of shadows in gereral is really good in my opinion, and the other 2 novellas were ok.

"Nope, turns out he trained in the Dark Forest." I almost screamed. StOp It WiTh tHe DaRk FoReSt. PLEASE.

Yeah the erins probably dont care. *suddenly Crowfeather's Trail, Shattered Sky, Hawkwing's Journey.*

To people who say cats are sexually mature at that age These cats have doctors, organized society and are treated as human beings in most aspects. In my opinion this book itself even demonstrated that this was taboo and not ok, even if it wasnt in the best way. Humans are sexually mature at very young ages I got my lady business when I was 9 Does that mean it was then ok to marry a 40 year old No No No No no? No!

Just checked on the Blossom/Thorn age difference... Six f*cking years? Dude, not cool.

I like Thistleclaw as a villain because I picture him like a true evil mastermind, he manipulated Spottedleaf into thinking he loved her, fights just for the sake of blood, he taught Tigerstar to be a tyrant and he didn’t care for anyone but himself in the end

Thistleclaw reminded me of a mixture of Thornclaw, Berrynose, and Spiderleg. He was a prick and felt entitled due to the fact that he was farther ahead in training (due to his size) and that he had one of the most beautiful she-cats in the whole series as his mate. Bluestar knew that if thistleclaw was leader he would become more currupt. After all "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men,..."

I saw spamilton in the beginning. Clap and a half.

Like Wolf Sword stated, Thistleclaw and Spottedleaf suffer in SH, both in character and canon. The predatory relationship, the ridiculously cliched lines and stereotyped personalities that both of them surpassed, these things may not have ruined the book for me singularly, but altogether they made a pretty unbearable read - and this is coming from somebody who legitimately enjoyed Maplesheade's Vengeance, which was rife with structural and pacing issues. I really hope neither of these characters are ever brought up again, because the Erins have just run thesetwo into a wall.

If you're a real fan you are A. Made of metal B. Powered by electricity C. Give cold air (or warm)

This is very true, i really agree with your opinion but i really hate this ship and it was rushed on which brings away the realistic feeling.

One thought I like about this is that after this traumatic experience, Spottedleaf ends up doing something very similar, going after an apprentice like as SOON as he gets to Thunderclan. If I remember correctly, he was between 4-6 moons? I feel like it was 6, because warrior code and all. Either way, she ended up creeping on this child and stalking him for years after her death. The abused became the abuser, like so many end up becoming when they tell no one. Many serial killers that did sexual things to their victims were abused as children in the exact same way. Could've been a really insightful commentary on nature versus nurture and the endless cycle of abuse that's so incredibly hard to break. But, no. This wasn't thought out from the beginning and had no such hope of being so.

heres another warrior cat ship with a big age gap, technically they where never mates but just about the entire warrior cat community ships them: BluestarXThrishpelt. in Bluestar's prophecy Thrushpelt was the newest warrior when she was a kit! not as big of an age difference as ThistleXSpotted but still it weirds me out

All I wanted was a Lesbian couple ;-; like me, a lonely lesbian.

What makes me angry is just by reading the comments in this video alone, you can tell that children and young adults physically cannot see what’s wrong with this “pairing”. It’s disgusting. It’s not “quirky” to be into pedophilia/grooming and it’s not cute. They literally are unable to tell what’s wrong and right and this is clearly wrong.

if you’re a real fan you’re a real fan

If I was on a deadline of two books every year then I understand the Erin's lack of quality with the newer books. So I dont blame them, I blame HarperCollins for making this schedule just so they can make money

'Blind following in fear of speaking out against popular opinion' That's exactly how i view the ivypool fandom.

You have to read Bluestar’s Prophecy, yes

I have an idea. How about (to give us a good reason for him being there) they make a book called: "Thistleclaw's Sins". I would read that.

thistleclaw said to spottedpaw when she asked him to stop, he said that he can't. he is hungry from the fear from their enemy's and for their blood.

Bluestar actually chased Thistleclaw out of Starclan to the Dark Forest. The authors confirmed it.

Want me to ruin your childhood? Dustpelt and Ferncloud first mated when Ferncloud was an apprentice...

Eh, you're not wrong though. Broken bases are bad. trying to cater to people who like the new things over the people who like the old just causes more wars- look at Sonic. They need to pick one style, and be consistent. I haven't bought the books since the fourth apprentice arc. They went off the deep end when dark forest cats can hurt living cats.

I believe the entire novella serves a purpose to teach children about the danger of child predators. Thistleclaw actually does a LOT of things that predators are known to do, from guilting her to be his mate, to scaring her to the point of becoming a medicine cat to escape him, since she knew that the medicine cat code would protect her. IF people see it this way, the only flaw I can think of is the fact that they chose Spottedpaw at all. She already had her own story, and adding to it makes it too busy. From predicting Firestar saving the Clans, to loving him, to guiding him throughout his life has Clan leader and being there for him. Adding in the Thistleclaw cradle-robver story is a bit much. I guess it wouldnt have had as big of an impact if, say, a senior warrior she-cat had seduced Goosefeather's apprentice (insert name??) this way, as he is male. Those are my two cents.

Also, Vicky Holmes stopped writing Warriors.

anyone remember Willowpelt and Tawneyspots? Willowpaw was an apprentice when she had Darkstripe, yet, eh, who cares? Ugh

CrookedxWillow wasnt that bad since Crookedstar was older than Willow by couple months.

Maybe they are doing this because when they come out with a really good book we will appreciate it more

Yes, Blosson x Thorn has a huge age gap for any warrior

I don't mind age gaps in warrior cat relastionships. Blossomfall and Thornclaw is ok because Blossomfall, in the warriors world, is equal to a young adult while, Thornclaw, is just a full grown adult. What's wrong is that Spottedpaw is equal to about a 12-16 year old while, Thistleclaw, is a full grown adult.

let's all agree thunders echo was the reason the book is on slot of shelves

I think this should have been worded better. Instead of the pedo thing, Thistleclaw should have pretended to be friends with Spottedpaw and then tried to get her into the Dark Forest. Also, get Spottedpaw to speak with the older cats, and have them get some sense into her. IDK what else should happen from there though...

2:54 I'm pretty sure cats reach the age where they are able to make babies around 12 weeks, but I'm not sure. My cat did have kittens pretty young, so yeah.(Btw we accidentally adopted a pregnant cat, it wasn't my or any of my family's fault. When we adopted her, she was too small to be spayed.)

I am glad that you are learning from your raging mistakes 🙃 Edit: about the age thing, it surprises me about some of the ships and, although I like some of them, the age differences are strange. Dustpelt and Ferncloud for one thing. He was old enough to be her mentor, and then there is the fact that cinderpelt love fireheart, again, he was old enough to be her mentor and *WAS* her mentor for a while, I thought this was strange but then remembered one of my favorite Harry Potter ships: Remus and Tonks. The thing with this is that both of them were full grown adults whereas Ferncloud and dustpelt were practically mentor and apprentice. That is my say on the matter and I’m sorry for the long comment so here is a potato 🥔. Edit number 2: (I made the first one before even finishing the video) I feel very left out in the fandom because I haven’t finished the series yet. I just got to the new prophecy and (by accident) started the entire series by reading the power of 3 and having no idea how any of this left off, I didn’t know who hawkfrost was or why he was in the dark forest. Or what the dark forest even was. So the lesson is, if you want to be apart of a fandom as extensive as warriors, MAKE SURE YOU START ON THE RIGHT SERIES SO YOUR READING EXPERIENCE ISN’T RUINED!!!

Honestly.... from the spottedxthistle ship I think that's another reason why he went to the dark forest even tho their cats... just my personal thought

You've become the one thing you swore to destroy

I haven't read this book, but I've heard everything. Honestly, if Mudclaw went to StarClan, why not Thistleclaw?

Will any other super editions be released too?

Ashfur was gonna kill four cats but went to Starclan and Thistleclaw killed and attempted to kill none..... he went to the DARK FOREST!!!???

Pinestar was a senior warrior when Leopardfoot’s parents were apprentices ._.

I actually cannot read this book without breaking down... I hate how this book was written from what I did read they don't even discuss ANYTHING ABT HOW FUCKED UP IT IS... like c'mon Erins! This was poor execution, and honestly its a HORRIBLE BOOK. I'm sorry if I'm ranting but as being groomed and sexualy assaulted as a child. This means alot to me and I hate hate HATE how no one questioned anything!!! Sorry again sweet furballs! Have some hearts I'm sorry again :❤❤❤❤❤❤

2:48 only because you’re a 10 year old girl who just got her puberty, it doesn’t mean you get into a relationship with a 40 year old dude. So what if she’s sexually mature? She’s still a child !

look i love Warriors but it really should've ended at Bramblestar's storm

The only thing I find in Spottedleaf's heart to be important is the information about why Spottedleaf became a medicine cat.

I have a question, is there at least ONE healthy relationship in the whole Warrior cats whole series n novels? 😬 Ferncloud and Dustpelt kinda but they were...related 😅

Good job being mature!: )

i just wish that there was more light on Thunderstar's echo and Pinestar's choice. PC was for me one of the best books in the series

even before spottedkit was an apprentice and ummm things started she showed intrest in thistleclaw ''she thought thistleclaw was too young to have a son an apprentice already''

The fact that they admitted they made Thistleclaw 'predatory' so we had a reason to see how evil he was, was bullshit. I don't love Thistleclaw, but holy shit, all the erins had to do was show him willing training with the Dark forest time and time again. Why did they need to give him a 'deeper' reason and then not even follow up with it?? Spottedpaw says no, and Thistleclaw just goes 'fine, see ya'. So if he's all that evil, why not follow her or even attack (Clawing, not rape) her? He fucking respects her wishes and leaves her the fuck alone. There is nothing to follow up on. So why even bring this up???

3:00 what-? WARRIORS IS ABOUT ANTHROMORPHIC CATS?! I thought the cats from Warrior cats walked on two legs...

She's called quiets rage for a reason

Vicky apologized for it Quiet....... No offence.. But i do understand the anger u had I was sooooo angry

Thornclaw, the lonely,careless,patrol guy

Well, I think it's more of the Erins creative freedom being very restricted and not that they aren't trying. I don't work for HarperCollins, though, so I can't know for sure, but that seems like the most plausible answer I can think of.

Well... I don't mind the SpottedxThistle ship that much. It could have been way better, but it doesn't bother me that much. I'm more here to talk about the fact I'm tired of people saying the authors don't care. ((I accept your apology btw. We all make mistakes) The reason I think this is because recently, when you see one of the main authors and story boarders leaving, you can see she really cared. She left making sure everyone knew it wasn't there fault she left. She made sure the fandom knew exactly how thankful she was for being able to write warriors, and honestly I really appreciate and respect that.

You know, books, FOR KIDS!

Hey um random fact Bluestar chased Thistleclaw out of Starclan so the Dark Forest wasnt wear he went when he died

"Heh ... lucky bastards" XD

At the end... I intent to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt with my assistant counsel Ok I’ll stop

He didn't care that they killed a starclan cat

I dont hate this book as much as everyone else does , but I can agree that spotted x thistle was handled poorly, also the Erin's lack of care for addressing it in the book being a bad relationship

PineXLeopard didn’t ruin their characters Me:TIGERSTAR!! Who mated with 5 She-cats, 5!! Including Sasha who created two messes One:Mothwing Two:This son of a Dark Forest cat Hawkfrost

Truly loyal... like Breezepelt

I haven’t actually read legend of the clans and to be honest I’m only considering buying it because I wanna read pinestar’s choice I don’t really care much for spottedleaf’s heart especially after the stuff that goes on with thistleclaw

My friend said she shipped ThistlexSpotted because she thought it was cute.......and NOT CREEPY

I know this may seem late, but I think the reason that Thistleclaw is in the dark forest, is well and I may be wrong but Bluestar chased him there

I have a head Canon, I believe that Spotted'leaf kept trying to be with Fire star because she sort of learned from Thistle Claw, in his stalker, manipulative behavior, and that he passed that down to Spotted'leaf

Even though that helpless kitten would soon come back to bite 'Tigerpaw' (in that time) in the butt.

WAIT HOLD THE THE PHONE!!! Blossomfall and Thornclaw is a thing?!?!? Can we PLEASE get gay couples soon,I know why the Erins cant because there is some places where that is not allowed but CMON!! They did everything now!! I want an official same gender couple

A Erin left her job because warrior cat lovers got angry at the book Why is everyone so mean ;(

There is so many simple things out there and yet, they just waste most of the juicy stuff. I get why they don't have rope or gay couples for younger audiences but at least try like it happened outside the book? You know what'd be cool? IF THEY MADE MORE CATS THAT AREN'T RELATED TO THE CLANS. You'd might just say that everyone is related and since there is so many forbids, why not just make a book where they find out all the Clans are related? Yeah uh...technically, SkyClan, WindClan, and ThunderClan are all related. It comes from Quiet Rain and incomes Gray Wing and Skystar (Clear Sky). Then comes Slate x Gray and then Sky x Star, Bright, and Storm. Then there's Thunderstar, Skystar's son. So yeah, technically the Clans are related. The Dawn of the Clans were really interesting because at Gatherings, they saw their ancestors. And so was Into The Wild, what would made a twist was that Firestar was born Clan. Then it just went confusing/off topic in Forest of Secrets. What else is there that the Erins could make? The ideas are right in front of them. Yet they copy their ideas from other books into the newer version. This is just getting old. This is really turning pale.

It's okay * pats ur back * I forgive u * gives u a cookie *

What if we wanted to buy the book for the other stories? I did actually enjoyed reading Spottedleaf' heart, even though it made me hate Thistleclaw and Spottedleaf even more. XD

vicky holmes is the one who writes the novellas. its the only thing she's done w the series for years

Yeah. To be honest, I must be naive to believe that there's good in everybody.

The plot for each book is made by people hidden to the public. Then tell earins take that and write it into the book on a time limit. So it's hard for the book's to be good now.

You know, there was Dustpelt X Fernpaw once, too.. Edit: and in the first series... Second edit: oh you didn't forget that..

You do know that crowpaw had a crush on feathertail before she died right?

Aaaaaaaand CherryxSharp

Anyone I talk to when I introduce the series, I warn them about this book, thats how bad it is.

Me: How did Thistleclaw become evil? The writers: He trained in the dark forest!!!!... Me: But so did- The writers: -and he didn't REGRET it!

Just because someone is sexually mature doesn’t mean they’re an adult. Spottedpaw is super naive in this book. She’s clearly not mature enough for a relationship.

and i thought bumble x dove was better... i still ship it

I did n’ I liked it cuz my mind is messed the hell up.....

I think it was to teach kids NOT to be "like Spottedleaf" that they wrote it, and really flashed out he was taking advantage of her. The only think that annoys me, is that it was Spottedleaf in the first place.

I think You might not want to read the latest chapter of the Forest Hill webcomic.

tacos

Finally, now can we stop with spottedxfire ;-; I like sandxfire + sandxfire is real in starclan firestar did not become mates with spottedleaf + I did not really like spottedleaf but she was a nice cat. ( Not trying to hate for spottedxfire lovers ) *just sayin.

i love blossomfall and hate blossomthorn also im currently reading spottedleaf`s heart only because people hated it so much....

I didn't buy it yet and from what everyone's saying, I'm certainly not going to