Given how absolutely horrendous that trail scene is Oh boy, am I exited to see starclan put in their place :/

Does your mom knows warriors lore

I hate that scene.

@@awoum no

Where's the second video you mentioned? Also I'm guessing that these two videos are your "squirrelbramble" video from your top 7 couples videos But stuff like appealing to the shippers bs? this is why I've learned to accept the inevitable change that comes with loosing the original writing cast. When they are ALL gone? You have to ask yourself if clinging to it is worth it. I love warriors too and adore the world it's in but I also am willing to admit that sadly? Plot over profit isn't the name of the game anymore. I hate to break it to these people but people and by proxy CHARACTERS change! These are things that are inevitable with time! That's why we have fan fictions to rewrite what went horribly wrong with the story. Like maybe both tigerheart and dovewing were possessed to ruin shadow and thunder clans forever by some of the bigiots of the past. Hell the current stone teller could probably be one! He got so pissed at the changes in his own culter, so he left it to die out of spite that he possesses Tigerheart. Maybe mapleshade possessed dovewing to finally screw over thunderclan in the flesh again. Hell we know it's completely possible and neither one is mega dead yet so why not? But the only "in university" way I can make sense of this sudden dive in characterization is that squirrelflights hope happens during the early stages of bramble being possessed by ashfur. And that throughout a vision of shadows, a and a broken code? He's still possessed. Personally? I think that squirrelflight was just so overjoyed at learning that she could have kits of her own that she wasn't even mad. Besides, it's not like adoption isn't an option and the fact some queens don't want kits at all? This to me seems like a better alternative. She finds out that she can have kits like she wanted and that she'd actually be a pretty good mom. News flash clan cats: NOT EVERYONE WANTS KIDS OR HAS THE MENTAL CAPACITY TO BE A MOM OR DAD! So what I don't understand is why the she cats who end up screwed over quite literally don't just suckle the kits and then offer them up to thier clan members for adoption? I mean yes it's crappy to do but at the same time? For every cat that wants kits? There's at least two that don't. Or hell! Have the spouse who wants the kits be a single parent so the other can move on with thier lives. Side note; Am I the only one who finds it odd that tigerstar sinks to a new low and has kits with a kittypet turned loner despite all the crap he spewed about firestar and then feathertail and stormfur? That never made any sense to me. Or why bramble doesn't seem to ask about who Hawks mother was.

HAHAHAHA

Pretty much

Rowanstar didn't deserve to be done dirty

Like the the house Targaryen :3

Worse tho becuse this time it's somehow *Unintentional*

Because anything that is deem "bad" is more interesting then "good, wholesomeness"

@@KyleEvra And that anything is good and wholesome is "boring". It's sad that we as a society are actually convinced that drama and toxicity in relationships in fiction is more exciting than good healthy relationships where the couples have fun moments together. I guess because making couples fight and scream at eachother is "easier" than coming up with scenarios to make canon relationships have interesting dynamics or put them in genuinely fun scenarios. u.u

Wdym? Cloudtail literally (Cheated?) On Brightheart and neglected her because he was always hanging out with daisy. Does that ring a bell? Bramblestar and Jessy.

​@@Mabbot182while Cloudtail was a mousebrain for subconsciously neglecting his wife, he never actually cheated on her. Hell, he didn't even realize Daisy had a crush on him. But he went back, apologized and that's why I love them. He's willing to acknowledge his mistakes. But Bramblestar and Jessy are a whole different story. Bramblestar knew Jessy was somewhat pursuing him romantically, and instead of going back to his wife, he started pursuing her as well. It took her leaving the clans to get him to snap back to reality.

It doesn’t really matter if they broke up. Bramble is her boss and Squirrelflight is trapped in the same clan with him regardless of their relationship status. She relies on his communication. Squirrelflight will lose literally everything if she leaves and Bramble is very much aware that she can’t leave. Stonewalling your ex especially if you have kids is toxic as hell and can damage your kids too (and yes Jay and Lion are their kids, even if he’s not the bio Dad, he raised them). Anything other than behaving civil with her is awful behaviour.

@@juno1752 I feel like what changes is it (his behaviour is toxic regardless imo but still) is the fact Squirrelflight did not choose to contribute to by taking in the kids or keeping the secret and Brambleclaw knows this. The people they both basically worship as gods literally refused to take Squirrelflight’s feelings on the situation as an answer and the burden of keeping the kits and their origin a secret was practically forced on her by Starclan. Her role was entirely out of her control and if she had broken the rules for all she knows they would have 3 bitter god-like beings being thrown out, seeking revenge on the clans with no way to stop them. Bramble chose to stonewall Squirrelflight for something Squirrelflight had no control over.

@@thesaltyeevee1459 That is completely true, though to give it the benefit of the doubt, it's implied that Squirrelflight never told Bramble that Starclan had forced her to take in the three (until that manga chapter), so for all he knows, she lied for no good reason. The authors are to blame for this EXTREME oversight tho, so again, this debate is being had because of bad writing. I agree with your argument tho!

Not wanting to talk to a former significant other after experiencing an extreme lie. (Lying is toxic btw). Is setting a boundary. The truth never even came from Squirrelflight so Bramblestar was well within his rights to not want to talk Squirrelflight anymore. Imo.

@@thesaltyeevee1459 Bramblestar didn't completely shut out Squirrelflight, Lionblaze, and Jayfeather. The kids were mature when the lie was released regardless. Now even though the lie was pretty much Starclan's fault, the truth could have been eased out much better as time went on than what actually happened imo. All in all how the truth came out Bramblestar was justified imo in not wanting to talk Squirrelflight because at the time he did not know Starclan was behind the lie. All he knew was his mate lied to him. Lying is also toxic. Bramblestar set a boundary on their personal relationship. Even if he knew Starclan were the real ones to blame he still would be justified in setting a boundary imo because of what I said earlier about the truth coming out. Bramblestar was not obligated to keep good close relations with someone who lied to him for so long. I guess we should all take Mothwing's advice and admit Starclan's guidance is flawed.

Shadowclan is practically on the other side of the Lake, even if Bramblestar were to come see her he’d have to get past multiple annoying border strict side characters

I think the erins completely forgot Mothwing was a Tigerstar baby for the sake of making her a Leafpool centric character

To be fair, Tawnypelt kind of cut off that part of her family, to focus on Shadowclan and the family she made there, besides, Bramble and Tawny hardly see or speak to each other, for that reason. As for Mothwing, even if they are half siblings, Moth focused more on being a medicinal cat, and I think that besides having the same father, they have nothing in common. Like, Bramble has not family left in Thunderclan.

as someone who isn't aro ace I agree as well personally I know the plot for the rest of the series (I like to spoil myself heehoo) but I'm only just beginning to read Midnight for real, and for me squilf really didn't need to have a mate an aro ace squilf would have been so great but man they just HAD to make the story even more like the lion king with the soppy romance didn't they smh

I think that's a problem a lot of people have: the fact that nearly every single she-cat _needs_ to have a mate and kits at some point. There are so few she-cats who don't get a mate or have kits, and usually, it's because she dies young (Feathertail, Bristlefrost, and Honeyfern, for instance). Snowfur had kits almost right after becoming a warrior and never had a chance to actually be a warrior. Squirrelflight had to choose between the best of two evils, and while I believe Brambleclaw was the best choice between him and Ashfur, there was also a third choice that was never considered: just...not being with either of them and either finding somebody else or never taking a mate? It's an issue in the series. The she-cats seem to have this "duty" to the clan to have kits one day (reflecting how society saw and kinda still views women), which is something I think needs to slow down.

Because she would want. Be Alone didnt have to be the answer to everything

Best comment on the video other than the one saying that Brambleclaw is a b*tch

Lol, moon is a huge squirrel fan, so there's definitely some bias, she's right about bramblebutt sucking and ashfur being the better choice of course, but still. And if anything, the writing is getting better, things aren't quite as predictable, and are more serious, almost as if their straying away from the more kid friendly style.

@@TheAshfurApologist Yeah, as much as l like Moonkitti she’s very biased about Squirrelflight and whatnot.

@Oreoflurry o wow, I thought moon was pro ashfur☹

@Oreoflurry squirrelflight shouldve been independent yet adopt everybody

@Moon Yes but he is written as abusive. This means that many young readers are being desensitized to abusive behaviour because it’s not made out to be bad in the text. Only teens and adults can really understand how awful Bramblestar is, which is a huge problem considering how most of the readers are children.

He somewhat tries to do the right thing, but then in Squirrelflight’s hope, because of stinky Tigerheartstar he pretty much goes ‘yeah, sorry honey those kits gotta die because tigerheartstar will be very mad at me also I love starclan teehee’

and he doesn't truly learn how to treat Squirrelflieght

That’s literally Squirrelflight lol. Not only does she not listen, but she actively goes and does things that are awful

@Sara Moustamandi you are absolutely correct. She was only a crush/love interest, nothing more I'm pretty sure Crow will end up with leaf in starclan

They may have encouraged it but they probably hoped theyd be the ones picked when their partner finally joins them

AMEN SISTER

Feathertail was the one who told Leafpool that Crowfeather needed to move on from her

@mrdoe97 Or they move on but don’t take a new partner. You don’t need to be in a relationship to be happy and some don’t want another relationship, just the one they had and there’s nothing wrong with that.

Not to mention that if someone is repeatedly accusing you of thinking a certain way that you don't for long enough that you do start to think that way, it isn't you being as bad as them... it's them successfully gaslighting you. You know... a kind of abuse. :/ Edit: Rage says that the term gaslighting is thrown around a lot these days when using it to describe the more blatant example in Squirrelflight's Hope, but I want to defend my use of it here. By the strictest definition, only Rage's example would be gaslighting. That example includes intention in the action and the things Bramble said he could not have genuinely believed unless he had already deluded himself. However, the more loose form or "throwing about" of the term has more to do with the effect than the strict intention. Bramble may or may not have believed what he was saying to Squilf in the second arc. That is up to interpretation, thus the strict sense of gaslighting applying in that case is also up to interpretation. However, regardless of his beliefs or intent, he accused her of it so often that she did start to question that situation herself. Hence, the effect of his interactions with her were the same regardless of his intention. This is the only point in which I think I disagree with the video: that abuse does not need to be intentional to be abuse. That a cruel or mean boyfriend and an abusive boyfriend are not in fact very different things, as the effect on their partner can be similar or even the same. Granted, I also think that Squilf was abusive to Bramble at points. Their relationship, as a whole, has become very toxic and was not healthy at any point and any chance to salvage it, as Rage rightfully pointed out, is far, far past. It seems to me that what the video depicted as "not abusive" was merely not beyond repair.

@@Fawnheart this!!! It's not always intentional but it's not excusable!!

Now that I've watched more video, I don't believe Squirrelflight was blind at all. As in it says, her love for her sister should've made her sympathetic. Rather, she understands more than ANYONE what a sibling should be, and Hawkfrost isn't that. She has NO alternative option than to get Brambleclaw away from his brother, or something worse would certainly happen.

@@MahkRonAKash SHE HAD LITERALLY NO REASON TO DISTRUST HAWKFROST!

@@FantasticFawnleap *Sigh.* Here we go again. Honey, he aided in a Windclan Coup, tried to keep Mistyfoot out of power, and expressed his ambition to Mothwing which Leafpaw overheard. He made a power move for the island, and challenged the Leadership of a cat blessed by the previous, and by Starclan. Need I go on, or are you ready for bed yet?

Are you referring to the broken code or a Starless Clan

@@starvoltnexus3139 at the time I've written this comment, it was the Broken Code arc.

Heck, didn't Silverstream approve of Grey and Millie getting together at some point? Why's she so pissy about him giving attention to the cat he's been with the majority of his life?

@@nectarinn3 She did in the Millie manga tell Graystripe she approved of Millie so I don’t get it either

Agreed

Maybe something could happened to your character that would make the current leader want to preform name changing (like lostface to brightheart) to what ever you would like.

Nah

I was leaning more towards early retirement. He’s had a long journey to this point, so I thought that I could show this through some early aging, due to the stress and injuries that filled his journey here. You know, some early arthritis or whatever. I haven’t read of a similar situation in Warriors, so I think that this’ll be cool. Thoughts?

@@fireheart8878 sounds great!

@mrdoe97 I mean from a political standpoint. Having an OC named Bramblestar could potentially fool the lesser intelligent to accuse me to support the abusive cannon one. Of course, this may sound foolish, but as a RWBY fan myself, I’m fully aware of the actions that toxic fake fans of the series could take to ensure that their opinions are constantly voiced and demanded upon others. I find it quite disgusting, and would prefer to avoid it altogether.

By the way I meant to say on this comment that it was the editors who worked this writing out more not the writers

I also heard the person who wrote squirrelflight hope didn’t like squirrelflight at all. And I’m like then why did they have squirrelflight a book by someone who didn’t like squirrelflight?! No wonder squirrel went through so much crap! No wonder all characters are out of character! It not just bramblestar but everyone in that book. They haven’t ruin leafstar yet but give it time

Starclan definitely is

So Stonewalling is the Ultimate Cold Shoulder?

@@TheZincMaster-on1fy Yeah

No it’s just avoiding. He still acted like her deputy. Either he ignored her or he harassed her relentlessly. There’s no in between

Somehow he is guilty of both. Should he have been cold? No. But that’s all it was. Cold, not abusive

I'm placing bets on Quiet winning.

The yin and yang go head to head in debate.

Peut-être que c'est en partie à cause du comportement d'Étoile de Ronce dans Squirrelflight's Hope que Poil d'Écureuil a mis du temps à comprendre qu'il était possédé par quelqu'un dans The Silent Thaw. Bien que je n'ai pas lu Squirrelflight's Hope, je pense que le comportement d'Étoile de Ronce était du à la situation à laquelle il était confronté en tant que chef du Clan du Tonnerre : la place du Clan du Ciel dans les territoires du lac compromise par la présence des Sisters + la pression que lui mettait Étoile du Tigre II, alors ajoute à ça que son lieutenant et compagne agissait derrière son dos, même si son comportement abusif n'est pas justifiable, je peux le comprendre, d'autant qu'il se réconcilie avec Poil d'Écureuil à la fin en lui disant qu'il ne veut plus qu'ils se disputent de cette façon. Le conflit Poil d'Écureuil - Étoile de Ronce dans Squirrelflight's Hope, c'était soit ça passe soit ça casse : soit leur couple en sortait grandi et plus fort, soit il rompait définitivement. Comme ils ont fait la paix à la fin, leur couple en est sorti grandi et plus fort et ça a permis de cimenter leur relation avant The Broken Code quand Pelage de Granit prend possession du corps d'Étoile de Ronce pour s'accoupler avec Poil d'Écureuil.

I think his abusive tendencies have been building up for a very long time. He may not have been abusive at first but he has traits that no one ever called out and those traits because worse and worse until finally Squirrel was just a safety net in his eyes. She’s not a person to him anymore. But also these books are written extremely badly. There is not a single well written book after omen of the stars and some would argue even before that. And Bramblestars storm was literally just him talking about how great he is XD like it was so hard to get through. Warriors has always been sexist though, almost every shecat who chooses work over home is shown in a bad light or at least their decision to do so is. The newer plots of rejecting wanting kits even though a Tom wants them was probably brought on because the authors noticed us complaining about it XD like they literally have us picking out names and pieces of plot! They’re not writing books anymore. They don’t care about the morals of the story, the characters, or anything but making a quick buck on fans who want to know what happens next. The entire series needs to just stop here and if they do continue it needs to be way in the future so they can stop ruining the characters that are currently amazing

You give a lot of credit to Squirrelflight for her own abuse towards him because she is “trying her best” but you offer none of this leniency to Bramble. It’s just typical

😡😡

Agree.

Yeah, we need some characters that’s not related to the main characters at all. Thankfully the new arc has two characters to cover that up.

That's because they don't develop any other characters anymore. If a character isn't related to the protagonist or is a love interest, chances are they don't have a personality (therefore not in for deputyship)

I want some new deputies who aren't even main characters. Harestar is a good step forward, they could've done the obvious and given it to Heather, Breeze, or Crow. ThunderClan specifically had a lot of good deputy options for Bramble to choose from, and while I like Squirrelflight's deputy style I do think it was a bit... forced. I actually liked the idea of Berrynose as deputy just because it was something different.

Amen

And doesn’t want to see him. She is dealing with her loyalty being questioned even still in this. She chose a clan over him, not so much a brother he never knew was deposited into a clan. Hawkfrost never left Bramble and Bramble doesn’t have to sneak around to see him really. At least at first. River clan I believe is much closer though during this from what I recall

He is NOT ABUSING HER!

Honestly, the book itself is junk

I vaguely remember that as well, but I don't think it counts because Sparkpelt doesn't call out Bramble so much as ask Squirrel, "Why do you let him treat you that way?" Which, yes, is an acknowledgement that what Bramble is doing is wrong, but it also victim blames Squirrel by implying that she's at least somewhat at fault for not standing up for herself. Abusers condition their partners to not stand up for themselves by manipulating them into believing that they deserve it, or, even worse, that if they do, they or their loved ones will get hurt. Obviously, neither of those conditions are really applicable to this situation, but still, Sparkpelt asking her mother this question is literally one of the worst possible ways to address the issue.

@@QuietRage Whoops- I looked back at the whole scene you’re right..my bad. and I do agree, that is honestly the worst way to ever address it to someone. She should’ve ripped Bramblestar a new one and called HIM the Mouse Heart. Only a spineless mouse hearted jackass would do such a thing. But that technically does show that cats are aware of this. Maybe the reason why they didn’t speak up is because they were either scared of what Bramble would do, or maybe they don’t say anything because their cowards. (Probably because it would interfere with the plot but still-)

Yes, Sparkpelt, ripe with fever and just having lost her mate lashed out at her father for not finding a solution fast enough.

The biggest Simp Tom in Warrior Cats is Thrushpelt or better Thrushsimp :3

100%

She sucks!

Nobody knows that scourge is firestar’s brother

Dude NO bramble deserves a better mate!

@@FantasticFawnleap So does Squirrel tbh. They could’ve broken up books ago but nope. I don’t see why they were paired together- But, his character was ruined. So many characters I’ve seen so far have been messed up by the writers. I have no idea why.

Dude Shut up!

@railmedaddy You don’t tell me what to do!

Personally I see the silent treatment as setting a boundary. Bramblestar left Squirrelflight after she lied to him. (Lying is also toxic btw). So do we only criticize Bramblestar's behavior and ignore Squirrelflight's or do we criticize both? If someone else calls me a victim blamer istg. It is not victim blaming to call out toxic behavior on both sides. Please don't bring up Starclan either as far as the lie goes. What happened with Starclan actually voices my problem with religion. People do all these questionable in the name of whatever god they worship and people on the other end of the acts are just supposed to accept it because a "god" is involved. That is hella manipulative and controlling of one's feelings and life and it's not ok. Edit: Well you may be talking about Bramblestar's interactions with Squirrelflight in TNP throughout your whole comment. Well if you are you can just ignore mine. But if you are breaking into Bramblestar at the end of POT and into OOTS just know that is what I'm talking about.

NO!

It’s a pain. A character with no path to becoming what they are now, where did it come from?

yeah this ain't real bro, please. don't.

@@nectarinn3 A. no duh and two, i was explaining my own scientific research.

Same. What did you think of his portrayal in River?

@@catxborsuq1 i mean... he seemed "disoriented" i think? Not abusive or something just really emotionless? idk as a leader he doesnt seem to be that important what makes me kinda sad

Most of us aren’t Bramble was done bad in the end

I think Yellowfang is there because her character totally changes in Starclan, for example the fact that she let Asfur enter the Starclan after he tried to kill three cats just for a break, and then, for what I undertsand her argument was "his only mistake was love too much". Apparently Silverstream got angry that Graystrip is with Millie in starclan, even though it was previously stated that Silver was happy that Graystrip managed to find a partner after her death.

@@spicynoodles2742 Ooooooh okay thank you! ^^

@@snowheart4077 sure :3

Not a friend but his mate which makes it worse

@@Celeste-jh2lj Ex-mate at the time being and a friend. Because after making her his deputy they started being friends again.

She started the fight in the new prophecy it’s her own fault!

@@FantasticFawnleap As somebody who listened to the audiobooks long ago I can agree with that she started a fight. Remember then, that Bramble Claw had no right to treat her like an apprentice. He had an air like: ,,I can boss you around because I'm older". If you listen these audiobooks, you'll know what I mean.

Apparently this does not exist on KZfaq anymore. Anyway he acted pretty much like Tigerstar in the new camp.

Unfortunately that’s a very common thing for abuse victims, keep coming back to their abusive exs or getting in abusive relationships. It could be for multiple reasons, whether it’s Stockholm syndrome, believing things will be better or change this time, or even thinking that the abuse is suppose to be normal. I hope your former friend will get the help she needs in the future and break out of the hellish cycle she’s in.

Castlevania. Its on Netflix

I was disappointed, too, even though I am personally not as invested in Dawn of the Clans era characters as the present ones. Onestar is one of the worst characters. That being said, I am interested in some things this Super Edition could explain. One being why RiverClan attacked ThunderClan together with WindClan in Eclipse (it made no sense for RiverClan to attack them and neither Leopardstar nor Mistyfoot are mentioned to be there, so my headcanon is that Onestar just convinced a couple of warriors to help them), and how did he hooked up with Whitetail, who used to be his apprentice; I am interested in how such relationships are viewed as there is only one other I can think of (Sharpclaw and Cherrytail), possibly because in this fanfiction I am planning the main character develops a crush on his mentor (hijinks ensue! xD). Already the excerpt was interesting, especially the Allegiances: Bluefur being confirmed as Runningwind's mentor, Redtail being Mousefur's, Darkstripe being confirmed a kit of Willowpelt and only kit in the litter, and mentors of Stonefur and Mistystar^^ So maybe it won't all be bad?

It wasnt perfect, and i by far enjoyed it more for the new characters rather than the old esp with how some characters were portrayed, but i really feel like it gave us alot of the potential of what sort of spiritual plotline we could of been in for omen of the stars if only it wasnt saved primarily for the clash at the end and ivy's chapters Also I like how Ashfur was portrayed more as the villian rather than just being good once he died and it all being fine and dandy.

She doesn’t.

@@FantasticFawnleap She does.

@@grief860 no she doesn’t!

Oop made this before the “Onestar Syndrome” talk lol

NO!

😐ok

I hate Squirrel!

​@@FantasticFawnleapwhy?

@@kittygirl0872 what do you mean why!?

@@FantasticFawnleap why do you hate squirrelflight?

@@kittygirl0872 why not really the real question is why do people love her so much she’s not that great!!