Exactly...me too!

Ram Kumar micheal’s explanation of Bhagavan’s deterministic outlook is far better and more profound. Your explanation makes no sense and offers no benefit to better understanding the path. Why would I think I’m exercising free will in a divine play? Divine play is already scripted according to one’s karmas so there’s ultimately no such thing as free will. Only arrogance of the ego makes us think we have such a thing

Bill, in order to understand Bhagavan's teachings correctly we need to study his own original writings, because most of the records of his oral teachings are not very accurate and they often fail to convey the nuances in what he said. Regarding freedom or choice, what he said is not that the only freedom we have is to investigate who we are but that this is the only correct use we can make of our free will. We are free to choose and make effort to achieve or avoid other things, but we cannot achieve anything that we are not destined to experience, and we cannot avoid what we are destined to experience, as he made clear in the note he wrote for his mother in December 1898, which you can read here: happinessofbeing.blogspot.com/2016/02/why-should-we-believe-what-bhagavan.html#dec98note

+Bill Callahan Yes Inquiry is not an action thought. hence its not karmic (Cause & Effect). Quest is the awakening to real. ie for the first time he is in immediate-sudden being as detached witness(undividual). in Talks with sri ramana maharishi bhagwan says Vijnana kosha(Sheath of Intellect or 'I' ') has two modes, one is pure-unaffected awareness and other mode is associated with karmic sheaths such as manomaya kosha(mental sheath which contains tendencies), pranamaya kosha(electricity to make physic function), Annamaya kosha(biological sheath made out of food). The individual 'I' or Ego arises when Vijnana kosha associates with karmic sheaths. the experience of pure self is when Vijnanakosha disassociates with karmic sheaths and identifies with pure awareness or Truth. Pure-awareness-identity is a grand-massive level of identity but still a kind of Higher-hierarchy identity which will also be transcended by few ppl which is complete trascendence without a trace of individuality, and they are called Jnanis. they appear impersonal and we can experience our identity with him when we come near his presence. By overcoming misassociaton of self with karmic sheaths or to say correctly the very instant recognition, that Self is never associated with karmic sheaths is pure Jnana path which is immediate sudden awareness without effort of an individual.

Respectfully... you must be one of Michaels followers. I find this approach a quagmire of words, concepts and frankly distracting noise. I prefer to listen to speakers who are clear enough about it all to present it in terms both simple and direct. Michael is not that teacher. And you seem to have fallen down the same hole. There is a light at the end. Silence .... you just need to follow it.

Sri Ramana Teachings this query have bothered me aswell for years. thank you for this clarification.

Thank you Daisilui. At this point I can say that I don't know what the fuck is going on and I am very OK with that. I could not talk about my experience here because it is like trying to gather smoke and put it in a jar. Maybe sometime in the future I will have words for this. I am not you or Michael, don't have that intellect to translate. Not sure of anything except I am absolutely sure that I am in the first row of the theater and have an excellent view. Thanks again.

Consciousness is what we really are. The ego is an illusory "formation" (for lack of a better term) which projects our attention outward from the essence of what we are (the consciousness) and causes us to identify with the mind and its thoughts, perceptions, beliefs, etc. This is why "Who Am I?" is the most efficient method of destroying that ego because it reverses the process of the ego by turning the attention inward and keeping it there, focusing that attention on the sense/feeling of being or "I am-ness" and not allowing it to chase after the thoughts of the mind which the ego feeds upon. If we can hold the attention inward in this manner sufficiently long enough (which will likely take much, much, much, much practice) the mind will eventually dissolve in its source (the consciousness), thereby starving the ego of sustenance so that it must vanish, as it is not real and has no form of its own.

Betek Penski Thank you for your reply but if consciousness is our real nature what is awareness. I thought consciousness was just a reflection of awareness and without awareness consciousness would not exist.

Betek Penski Thank you so much - Yes I am relatively new to Advaita and I think I am reading too much by so many people I am getting bogged down . Your comments were very helpful and not rude in any way. I had already decided to read the books I already have and no more. Thank you again.,

Betek Penski I must also apologise because I seem to have accidently lost your last comment. I did read but wanted to read it again. Thank you again for your replies they have been useful to me.

I can't really recall the specifics of what I wrote but the gist of it was that PRACTICE was infinitely more important than DISCUSSION, though discussion is certainly important in so far as it helps to ease the thoughts of the mind. For me Vichara is like this. Close your eyes in a quiet place. Now, how do you know that you exist? There is a 'feeling' of being. Now keep in mind that your thoughts will chime in saying "I exist" or "because I am" or some such thing. What is important is to ignore any and all thoughts. You want to focus solely on your subjective 'feeling' of being. Another way is with the question (eyes closed and quiet area) "How do I know I am alive?" But you must consider it without any thought, you need to 'feel' the subjective sense of your aliveness. Don't reason, don't label, don't think at all. You need to 'feel' it. One of the essential elements of Vichara is that it causes the mind to become completely silent of all thought. The Ego thinks. The real you, consciousness (the 'chit' of satchitananda), does not. It just takes determined practice. You'll know you have it when you can 'feel' your "I am-ness" without ANY thoughts commentating on it. It is like a state of pure Beingness within the quiet mind. This Beingness is what Bhagavan calls the 'I'-Thought. You need to keep your attention firmly planted in this 'I'-Thought. Every time the mind tries to wander towards any thoughts you need to sever the attention from those thoughts and bring them back to the 'I'-Thought (what I have been calling the 'feeling' of being or "I am-ness"). The mind will wander in this manner a hundred times and a thousand times and a million times and a million times a million times. Just keep bringing it back. Ultimately you want to be able to have your attention on the 'I'-Thought as often as possible. Eventually it will go on in sleep as well. You will wake sporadically through the night and your attention will automatically be attentive to the 'I'-Thought. Same thing when you wake up and through your waking hours. Stick to that 'I'-Thought. Again, it just takes much practice. : ) Peace to you.