Spot on... and for me, this is exactly what should be said rather than trying to talk steel up. It's going steel, (which is fair enough), and we just need to deal with it.👍

Here in my region in southern Finland lead has been forbidden on waterfowl for ~20 years. Here the shootingranges too are starting to allow only steel shooting clays. I have not yet tested the Blind Side, I have been shooting Gyttorp and Winchester Magnum in my Remington 870...

The cost of bismuth over here is considered prohibitive by many.

KZfaq doesn’t allow it I’m afraid.

I saw a reloader on Instagram recently publish the results of his .410 steel pattern test. Steel patterns tighter than lead so less choke mightn’t be a great loss.

If you mean DCSTEELNI, he uses a full choke so things might be ok? Will be following his explorations! If its someone else I’d appreciate the details to follow! Any recommendations for a good 410?

Very likely but get it measured up

The cost of lead vs steel are not of a concern, it might be a couple of penny’s in difference per shell. But the other components coste the same or more.. (I suspect the shot cup is a little more expensive with steel shots as well, but I am not sure) The facilities that prior used to make lead shot shells has to be adjusted or updated to steel shot. Plus the facilities used to make tons after tons of lead shot/pellets will not earn its money anymore. The production and earnings per shell are what costs the money. Try doing the math and see how little difference in price there are in 32 grams of steel vs lead. Kind regards Niklas.

Never mind. I found a video with Simon Reinhold that was very informative. However, it seems like many of the guns in their auctions will be Bismuth-Only, as steel isn't an appropriate option.

The only thing bigger than the last would be a canon

​@@tgsoutdoors Cannon... Clays... How hard could it be? I'm guessing that would be a first.

In general terms, to rust, soft iron needs air as well as moisture. A pellet lodged in a bird would have one but not the other so any rusting would take much longer than usual.

Same here!

Good question.

@@robbreeze7599 I imagine it would, just because it can.

Simply untrue! US research on dove shooting in Texas shows that the performance of the two shot materials is almost identical.

What a ridiculous statement - simply not true.

Perfectly true agree with every word, the only people who won't notice the difference are those that shoot stuff on the end of the barrel, Americans being a good example.

​@@nickhorten97 a dove, pheasant, or grouse is a lot different then waterfowl. Waterfowl have tougher feathers and a nice layer of fat. Example: I have shot a few geese past 40 yards with #6 hevi-shot that is 12g/cc which is almost the same weight as lead. When I cleaned them, all my pellets went all the way into the vitals. AND in each of the geese had what looked like #2 and BB steel pellets stuck in their fat from being shot at before. Saying the materials are almost identical is a denial of physics.

I don't see how the chambers could be effected any more than the barrel itself. If the shot is contained within the wad how could it be damaging?

@@PencilProper I think it was the lip of the chamber, that small vertical edge that was damaged. If I remember correctly, one of the guns involved was a Beretta?

I shoot steel in a 3.5” chambered gun, never shot a 3.5” cartridge. No issues.

@@ericc3327 Cheers Eric C. Chris and most others will be of the same opinion. Common sense approach too.

No-one makes them yet. They will come

Ballistically, steel is inferior in delivering energy. In my experience waterfowling, it can throw you off as the velocity of steel shot requires less leading. Also, IMO it tends to wound FAR more birds than lead. The amount of ducks that I had to finish off when compared to lead is staggering. I understand the environmental arguments when concerning waterfowl, but ethically I really despise using it.

It will be a sad day when steel is all that you can use thousands of fine English shot guns will be put in the scrap bin And yes I have tried steel it wounds a lot of birds and a lot of it kicks like a mule. Also what about disabled shooters who can’t use a twelve bore ? There are no sixteen or twenty eight steel cartridges . I’m still not convinced .

@@davidholmes7649 there is steel in 28, not sure about uk availability but it'll get there. Bismuth will also drop on price some as demand goes up, and that's fantastic for older guns. There's also hand loading, which is rather easy and solves many problems. Was out hunting geese the other day with steel. Worked just fine. I've also used a mix of steel and tungsten on waterfowl, which worked better than fine. Finally, if you really want to shoot an older gun and want to use steel you can have the barrel lined. Make that 12 a 20 that can handle anything you want to throw at it. I'm getting a set of tubes for an old greener made in 1904, she'll keep hunting long after I am gone.

@@ericc3327 With due respect I am aware off all you have sed but in the uk Bismuth cartridges cost £1,500 a thousand and tungsten is treble that I am a disabled shooter and I use smaller guns ( no cartridges available at the moment and when they do get some the cost will be very high ) I don’t shoot ducks or geese I shoot game ,pheasants and partridge but most of my shooting is at pidgin s .I can’t see the price coming down steel cartridges are all ready more expensive than lead £350 a thousand for lead and well over £400 for steel and going up . I will be for one giving up shooting when it becomes law and so will a lot of other people in the uk .

@@davidholmes7649 seems a shame, when there are other options. But I can respect that choice.

@@davidholmes7649 "Standard" steel in any gun still in proof for nitro powder. Wounding birds? Perhaps you should reduce the range you consider safe for clean kills. I think short-chambered 10 b's used to be popular in Britain. Perhaps they will make a comeback and shoot really effective "square loads" in steel.

Lead is not a problem at all the arguments for banning lead shot don't hold up at all but the powers that be call the shots

It's a hot topic pal. I get why we are going over to steel, you don't need an A level in chemistry to know lead particulate is toxic. The problem is, lead is a better ballistic material so the move is painful... I don't like it... but I accept it.

You have to use your Desktop/laptop. Neither mobile web or the KZfaq app gives you the option to become a member. Unfortunately, even the greatness of Jonny Carter cannot overcome the ineptitude of KZfaq

But would you want to shoot your 80 year old full and mod side by side with it. Would anyone want to shoot non magnum steel through their Best Quality early 1900s double with it? I would not.

No I wouldn't that's what Bismuth is good for

@@awesomebillfromdawsonville8715 and it's what lead is good for. I plan to stick with it.

The demand is still there and the supply of steel isn’t adequate Yet

@@tgsoutdoors ok thanks Iv been impressed with 36 3 steel on the duck this year with my franchi affinity 3.5 had some great kill with steel

Because people want and can still shoot them

@@ghillie35 How many seasons do you have under your waders?? Very nice to hear from NH, lastime was, what, on Begbies fowling forum?? Maybe wrong Nic mind, been a few years.

@@Odysseuss. hello Andy, I hope you are well.