Okay so I want to address my comment about Sam. I still stand by my analysis and would like to add more nuance, because I don’t think I explained myself clearly. The last thing that I would want to do as a black person is imply that poverty and absent fathers are exclusive to the black community. We know those stereotypes are harmful because anyone from any race or background can experience those issues. My feelings on Sam are that while those experiences on their own do not necessarily mean she’s a black caricature, the show itself intentionally tried to align both her and Rex with blackness, by relying on stereotypes. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that as the show went on and we learned more about her those details would just be randomly thrown in there. For example of course other races love hip hop and rapping, but I don’t think it’s a coincidence that in the iCarly Victorious crossover, when Robbie destroyed the speaker system his attempt at rapping was seen as inauthentic, but the “urban” puppet was seen as a good rapper. And throughout the party when he was having rap battles his only opponents were black and the ONLY person who could beat him was Sam? It just felt so clear to me that that was an intentional effort to align Rex and Sam with blackness. Now of course, loving fried chicken, having an absent father and loving hip hop are not exclusive to black people, but in this Dan Schneider Universe it is. Sam and Rex were aligned with blackness to make them seem more edgy. I understand if people still disagree and reject this idea, but I would hate for anyone’s takeaway to be that I believe black people can only be depicted in this one stereotypical way.

It's incredibly disturbing that Sam was obsessed with food, while Jennette was battling an eating disorder in real life.

The irony of Dan making all his black characters “scary” and loud/annoying when that’s exactly how he was in real life and even worse ✍🏽

The angry black woman stereotype affects black women in real life. I will never forget when I was working at an insurance office back in 2019. I was the only black woman there and it was a very small office. I remember my manager and coworker called me to say that they will be late so I was alone there for a couple of hours. I noticed that there were no customers and I had to use the bathroom really bad. I went to the bathroom and came back and I saw a customer outside. I greeted her and she asked where my manager was. I told her that my manager stepped away but will be back. ( That’s what my manager said to tell customers when they ask .) The customer who was a white lady asked if I even worked here. I said yes. She responded back that she did not recognize me. I said I was new but she accused me of lying. She told me that I was probably a thief trying to steal the computers. I was literally sitting at my desk in my work uniform. I defended myself of course and said I’m not a thief. I have been working here for a couple of months. The customer told me that she didn’t like “ my tone “ and I’m being “ aggressive “. She kept accusing me of lying and asked to speak to my manager. I called my manager after she asked to speak to my manager but she kept going off about how I’m lying. I really don’t work here. She proceeded to say that she is calling the police. I told my manager what was going on and I handed my phone to her. Fortunately he was only a few minutes away and he showed up and helped the customer. When I tried to talk to him about the way she treated me, he simply said she was crazy. The police really did show up later that day and we had to explain what really happened. I quit shortly after that. That’s how the angry black woman stereotype can negatively affect us in real life. She falsely accused me of being a thief and when I defended myself, I was being “ aggressive “.

What's crazy is that if there was a black female character that acted like sam at the time she would be hated

No because tori and andrei shouldve been together honestly

I was always confused about ”Scary Spice”, it would make sense for a goth or something but I didn’t see what was scary about her.

Andre was my favourite as a kid, and I very much noticed they avoided giving him a love interest and was livid. Was so happy when i thought he could have smt w jade 😔

as a Black woman who loved some of these shows growing up, thank you for waking this shit up lol because as an adult it’s beyond obvious

I've always hated how kid's tv was so against interracial couples and any black character might have a singular date or crush on a white character they always ultimately ended up with a black partner

Never heard the spice origin story. I hate pop culture

Jocelyn, the bully… I never realized she is just… a grown ass woman? Not only is she 6ft tall, but she looks much older than everyone else. I think that part of casting was intentional, and I don’t like it very much. Also, a lot of these characters only did well because of their actors. Yvette Nicole Brown is a gift to the world! And whoever plays Andre’s grandmother put her ALL into that.

You can pick up on a lot of patterns with various stereotypes across all of these shows: -Black people are portrayed as angry and physically imposing -Asians are portrayed as unpopular nerds -Homeless people (almost exclusively referred to as hobos) are portrayed as scary and almost subhuman -Characters' mental disorders (Sam and Coco's overeating, Cat's bipolarity, Andre’s grandma’s schizophrenia, etc.) are played purely for laughs -Transphobic jokes (Jade calls Robbie "sort of a him," Beck uses air quotes when referring to his "Uncle Barbara," Spencer gets called a "man lady" and chased by security guards simply for crossdressing) -Robbie, who is Jewish, is portrayed as a cheapskate

Does anyone else remember that episode of Victorious where they were stuck in "Yerbania" which was an obvious parody of Balkan countries (the name literally sounded like Serbia, Albania, Yugoslavia) and the flag was just a yellow Albanian flag? And the running joke was how poor and weird the country was and that they were at war? There would be bombs going off outside and the cast just looked at each other like "uhhh ... awkward! 😳" I was born over there and escaped with my parents as refugees because of the war and ongoing genocide so it was a touchy subject for me as a kid, plus being bullied for not speaking English well. I remember when that episode aired my face was hot and my heart was pounding the whole time from embarrassment and anger lol

its funny because andrew's gf acts the same way as jade but ofc everyone would hate the black woman

As a kid, I was confused by why other characters were expected to be scared of Helen. I can’t help but think some of the writers wanted to expand upon her character to make her the Helen we admired, while other writers wanted to keep her boxed into the stereotypes.

so all that tori/andre subtext was in my mind?! i always thought they had a thing going on that just wasnt brought up

The “angry black women” part is so true also note that literally in everything where black woman are the side characters they usually never cry or show vulnerability. only being “strong, sassy, funny (stereotypically) or angry.

sam has the black women stereotype but it's seen as funny and cute because she non black

Your whole point on Sam embodying black female stereotypes is not wrong. I don’t know how accurate this is but apparently Sam was supposed to be that black token friend. Production decided to make her white because her attributes sounded way too stereotypical and harmful. Please let me know if this is right or wrong. I just saw this on Reddit

Helen’s character could have been portrayed as a powerful authority figure but instead, like you said, the characters’ REACTIONS to her set up the stereotype. What a shame

I feel like the Asian stereotypes of Mrs. Lee and her daughter Daisy needs to be talked about. Could you maybe make another video on Asian stereotypes in the Dan Schneider-verse?

Ok so as someone who had the lady who play Andres cousin as a substitute teacher tell us her experience, it’s very sad how black wonen are portrayed in media honestly and it does carry over into every day life and how people react to black women in public.

I was always disturbed by the way they portrayed and reacted to Andre’s grandmother as a child. I felt bad for Andre-I was like damn this poor guy has so much on his plate and his friends just joke ab it or brush it all off. I wanted everyone to be nicer to Andre AND his grandma 😢

I’m so here for this Dan Schneider slander

I mean, considering that according to the black cast from All That in the Quiet On Set documentary, they were overlooked while Dan was focused on little white girls feet. He even complained about a black girl’s birthday cake being too big, so looking back at these shows through your video, these depictions of black characters through his shows aren’t really surprising at all.

I'm so glad we're finally having this conversation

“Down the Hall, swing a left at the water fountain, second door on the right.” 💀💀

Bro the one girlfriend they gave Andre that was mean asf was darkskin but the others were lightskin 😭 all the stereotypes and micro aggressions were so obvious. So sad

did yall ever see that episode of icarly where the ended it with the characters playing “jamaican tag” with a braids wig on their head💀 it was wild..

A problem that I have with Zoey 101 is that Stacey has a lisp, they were making fun of people that have speech impediments

They made Raquel Lee play a ratchet ghetto stereotype on the Amanda Show in the Girls Room sketch

I think this was a wonderful conversation piece. Hollywood has a very obvious history of stereotyping black people or using black people as the "butt of the joke" and I am not surprised that these continued to linger in children's television shows. I am happy that this is finally being brought to light. Dan Schneider knew exactly he was doing with mocking black sterotypes imo.

if i remember correctly, i heard that while Dan did co-create Henry Danger, he wasn't on set a lot, which may be why Charlotte seems like a deviation from his use of the stereotype.

Andre and Jade should have gotten together! I feel like they compliment each others’ personalities very well. Andre was awesome and I’m sad he got sidelined so much

Andre was the best character on Victorious imo I felt he would’ve been good with Tori even though I don’t ship or anything like that really

It’s funny how Helen on the show favored Drake and was always rude to Josh, but apparently behind the scenes Yvette Nicole Brown was always looking out for him and they’re still on good terms

For anyone who is thinking “it’s fiction, who is it hurting?” I does hurt countless black people/women. I grew up very conflicted because I loved these shows but felt gaslit and boxed in. Many of the thoughts in my head where “is that how we’re depicted? Do people see me like that?” This was as a kid, little alone as an adult. No, I don’t think this video was a reach. Even in the recent ‘Quiet on Set’ docuseries a topic that was talked about was the unfair treatment of people of color as well as bother mothers sticking up for their kids and being called ‘Angry Black Women’ so yeah, this stuff both happens on the show, bts of the show, and in day to day life.

Kinda weird they swapped the black lady out and expecting us not to notice

I keep running back the scene where Jocelyn dropped the boy on his head tryna see if it was a stunt double because that was seamless

I remember as a kid I never understood why everyone was so scared of Helen. I just thought she was a funny and charming. As a kid, I thought the joke was that she WASN’T scary, but everyone around her thought she was

Wow, was charlotte really the only black girl/woman who wasn’t written with this stereotype?? Disappointing looking back as an adult. Wonderful video, and a necessary discussion to have.

also with andres cousin, it didnt even have to be ANDRES cousin. it couldve been just someone they hired off the internet.

I suspect the reason they changed Rex puppet after the _Victorious_ pilot was because somebody (either a writer or a producer) considered it would be "unaceptable" for a kids show to have a white ventriloquist making a black puppet talk in a stereotypically black manner. _Arrested Developtment_ had a main character do exactly that and the reaction of the only character with some semblance of decency was "this is inappropiate and in poor taste, please stop", and people didn't complain (as far as I know) because it was a comedy for adults, children TV shows have less leeway for that sort of thing

I completely recognize Jocelyn fell into the angry black woman stereotype, but I will say when I was younger I wanted to be Sam when Jocelyn pushed her against the locker

That actually made sense, they made him lighter and lighter over the episodes and seasons.

Here's the stereotypes for those who actually wanted a video about the different characters that appear in every show Main character who's always "attractive" and liked by half their peers except one Annoying person (usually a secondary antagonist) Hot guy who's surprisingly chill Bad girl (sometimes the antagonist but also sometimes friends with the main character) Dumb cute girl Nerdy guy Weird guy Cool guy Annoying sibling Chill, terrible or absent mother Clueless, stupid, strict, or absent father usually it's either one or the other, but there's always one parental figure

I have to comment again because there are a lot of people who lack basic comprehension in the comments. Tronn is not saying that Sam’s character IS black. He’s pointing out the harm that comes from them using obvious stereotypes associated with black people (women specifically) and attaching them to this character to make her appear more “edgy.” The problem is that they literally associate black cultural things like rap music and aave and stereotypes with “edge” and “aggression.” It’s the same thing with Rex. And it’s even more obvious what they were doing with Rex because the puppet literally started out black. I’m also inclined to believe the whole story about Dan originally wanting a black actress to play Sam because 1. They started with a black puppet in Victorious and later changed it. Probably due to them realizing how that looks 2. All of Dan’s shows prior to icarly and even after, had at least one black character who was a part of the main ensemble. I always found it weird that iCarly didn’t have any. (Not including T-Bo because he didn’t become a recurring character until later seasons). I hope that everyone watching this video, especially nonblack viewers will listen to understand and not to respond. These ideas and patterns don’t just come out of thin air. They’re harmful and upsetting to say the very least.

About Andre, I definitely believe that he never dated any of the main cast members because it would have offended a lot of white dads

I remember being a kid and furrowing my brow upon learning the one black Spice Girl was called “Scary”. I think at the time, I vaguely knew about the Aggressive Black Woman stereotype but not in full, but even then just the fact everyone else had these nice names but then you got to the one that looked the most like me and she’s “scary”. But hey, I assumed all this time they chose the names themselves. Learning otherwise makes it so much worse ❤

I literally forgot what video I was watching and thought to myself “that’s pretty racist” when they named Mel B scary spice

I would really like to see a version of this video focusing on Disney Channel characters. There's a black girl in Austin and Ally who is given similar treatment to Andre's girlfriends. I think her only personality trait is that her breath smelled bad 😒. I feel that most black characters in Disney more fit the nerdy stereotype, which seems like a misguided attempt at not being racist lmao.

Drake and Josh -- Helen. The iconic "loud black woman". ...Which is a shame, because Yvette Nicole Brown is a wonderful actress and she's been typecast ever since.

I really enjoy that this isn’t another video that will just devolve into Dan Schneider crimes and issues, the shows involving him have more to be discussed than just the fact he was on them

what is interesting about this is that Dan Schneider 100% knew what he was doing. There's a BTS clip of him talking to Leon and the actress who played Sherry (his second gf) and Dan, unprovoked, pretty much called the girl ugly to her face. Sooooo I'm not surprised at all and i don't think there's coincidence in how he depicts black women.

I never made the Helen connection. I always thought people were scared of her cuz she was their boss in some way. But what you said made more sense honestly.

ngl ive always thought her name and the reasoning behind, "scary spice" just seemed racist

Dan Schneider’s wife was the “cupcake good paper bad” woman

I'm a black woman who loved the Spice Girls, but always wondered why the only black girl in the group was named "Scary" Spice, just saying...🧐

Sam ran so whiteboy Carl could walk.

sam is not jewish she just said that to scam her grandma💀

it's odd, I never thought of 'Scary Spice' as anyone but who she was -- and yet she's the one me and my friends wound up just calling by her actual name the soonest, because "Scary Spice" still didn't fit her overall. so we called her Mel B while we called the others by the ____ Spice nicknames. to look back on it as an example of that pervasive stereotype is indeed so gross but I'm glad it didn't seem to impact how my friends and I viewed her or the group as a whole. (I was my group's resident Posh stan; we had a Mel B stan and a Ginger stan in the group as well.)

You’re forgetting about nicks most famous black woman, Ariana Grande

I don’t really think that Helen fits the angry black woman stereotype; I’ve always felt like a key part of that trope was the masculinization of black women that Helen doesn’t really seem to convey like most examples

People always wonder why poc mainly black people and mainly black women want good representation. Yeah after being stereotyped as a mean black women or the black best friend. Whenever a black woman is the lead it's then woke. Not all black women are the same or a stereotype and it's fun to see that in the media today. The black girl can be nerdy or the love interest and just not the stereotype Hollywood tried to push.

The thing with Andre and Tori: If they would've stuck with not having any couples in the show except for Jade and Beck (who had one of the worst relationship ever lmao) I would've totally be fine with it and people saying "Andre and Tori should've stayed friends" but then also don't try to force Beck and Tori down on the audience throats ! They had zero chemistry ! Especially if you have someone like Andre and Tori who, even tho having a sibling like relationship, also had some sparks here and there. Them not having even the smallest of HINTS on getting together down the road, when even Cat and Robbie shared a kiss made me realize how hard they tried to avoid this ship for OBVIOUS reasons...

Rex’s color got changed because of test group after the pilot. A couple people apparently raised a concern about the Jewish kid puppeteering a black representation puppet being a little on the noise. (Not because of the black racism but because of the crazy Jewish conspiracy theories that kinda of got front page news at the time thanks to the Mel Gibson arrest around the same time.) It was in an insider magazine at the time, I’m sure you can find it in the bowls of the internet if you really scrape.

yikes ...did anyone notice in drake and josh they randomly replaced Helen with another black lady thinking we would not no the difference

I love that you brought up Spice Girls as the first segment. At some point in my head I stopped calling Mel B Scary Spice and started calling her Spunky Spice -- I always thought that was a more fitting name to her character and outfits. she was my favorite. super outgoing and her outfits were some of the most fun and fashion forward. when i was reminded that her nickname was actually scary spice and not spunky spice i was pretty bummed lol. i basically mandela effected myself into giving her a better nickname

Off topic, but did they ever explain what happened to Andre's parents?? Like, he doesn't even say "My mom or dad" which is strange????

Y’all remember “The Girl’s Room” on The Amanda Show?

Andre's cousin was actually the first time i noticed it as a kid.. idk if for the other examples i was too young or if they were just subtle enough, but the way that outrage scene was played was difficult not to notice the stereotype she was supposed to represent.. i also never really noticed it with Helen because i always thought she was super sweet towards nearly everyone except Josh.. with Rex however it was extremely noticeable because his inappropriate one-liners were never that subtle.. i'm not seeing it with Sam tho.. growing up i knew irl white girls who were exactly like her.. heck, sometimes she also even gives trailer trash vibes..

on top of the stereotypes, there’s a GLARING lack of POC main characters. which must’ve been obvious to them after the fact when the sprinkled poc into the reboots.

22:29 I never noticed baby Andre was in iCarly!!! 🥹

I hate Sam but what I hate more is the fact characters like Carly just sits back and watch as she is abusive to other characters. Why are these 2 best friends?

Also on the reboot of iCarly, Sam's replacement is black

Drake and Josh was my least favourite nickelodeon show but I distinctively remember really liking Helen bcz of all the same reasons you mentioned and i found her to be really pretty.

As a writer it’s sometimes interesting to look back and see how many missed opportunities they had with the characters. There are characters on here that I feel like, if they were written better or given much better arcs with finer improvements, they could have potentially been fan favorites. 2 that come to my mind right away are Helen and Jocelyn. 1. Helen could have very easily had more episodes showing off more of her sweet side and being nicer to people. She already has a lot of the makings of one in Drake and Josh, and I personally feel as if everything in terms of her characterization from that show was fine just the way it was. Even as a kid I felt as if she really didn’t even need to be included in shows like Victorious because it completely contradicted her characterization in D&J. Her arc already ended perfectly from her wedding episode. (which should have been the series finale but that discussion’s for another day lmao.) 2. Jocelyn to me was just wasted potential, here’s how I would have written her episode. Sam still has a crush on the dude she’s interested in but is still afraid to come across as too tomboy-ish/boy-ish etc. Then we see Jocelyn ‘bullying’ a kid, the teacher breaks it up per usual etc. However, later on during the episode Sam bumps into Jocelyn and instead of Jocelyn beating Sam up, she instead picks up Sam’s books and hands them to her. From that point on we learn that Jocelyn’s reasons for ‘bullying’ that kid were actually 100% justified (insert genuinely solid reason here) and at some point during the conversation Jocelyn and Sam learn to become friends with each other. Later on Jocelyn finds out what Sam’s trying to do to impress the boy she likes and reflects as she used to act a very similar way, she would try to encourage Sam to be her own person and to not change who she is all for the sake of impressing someone else, however the advice would fall on deaf ears (as giving advice to people who are in love often does.) as Sam would walk away. Jocelyn would come up with an idea. Towards the later half of the episode Jocelyn insults and pushes Carly like she does in the original episode, only this time Sam would be even more angry because Jocelyn was someone she thought was her friend. Sam and Jocelyn then duke it out as normal only towards the end of the fight, Jocelyn asks Sam if she enjoyed beating her up, Sam confused by what she means would say yes. Jocelyn would then respond with something along the lines of ‘Good, remember how that felt. Never forget it.’ (It’s perfectly in tune with Schneider’s albeit most times random humor all while teaching an important lesson about individuality and being your own person.) Jocelyn would be kicked out of the store and from that point on Sam starts acting like her usual normal self again, only this time instead of Jocelyn being portrayed as the violent intimidating bully, she’s portrayed as if anything the opposite. Hell, if I were in charge? I’d make her a recurring side character that would often stick up for Sam instead of just a one off. Hell, she might even have her own character arc where she finds healthier ways to cope with her inner anger’s and frustrations (but that’s a story for another day I suppose.) Regardless. From my new summary alone, she works not only much better as a foil to Sam in this episode, but it also makes her a more memorable character as a result. I apologize if this summary was very unorthodox and jumbled, but I love trying to problem solve and come up with various ways and solutions to fix characters and expand on aspects where I feel they could be expanded upon.

jennette(very reasonably) did not want to come back to do the reboot of icarly. of course, carly needs a new best friend so they added a character (idk her name coz i haven't watched it) who happens to be black. i saw a short of a scene with her and carly and as i was reading the comments i came across one like this "its so ridiculous to see that black girl try to replace sam as much as possible, she's not the same" smth like that, and it was so annoying because sam's whole personality is that of a stereotypical black woman, like she even does a "stereotypical black accent" sometimes in sam and cat.

This is also really eye opening, because I realised that it's a struggle to think of ten named black main or recurring characters in the nick shows I watched. There really was little to no representation of black or Asian people in those days. I can't speak for any new shows, of course, but I'd hope it's not the same these days.

I rewatched Victorious during the pandemic. Or tried to, anyway, I stopped pretty early on when I realized how much of the content was revolved around shipping (and arguably sexualizing) characters. It's crazy how much Nick got away with when it comes to racial stereotypes, sexualization, and general mistreatment of marginalized groups, that I didn't fully grasp since I was just a kid

I have never as a kid thought of these women as ‘stereotypes’. Maybe because I was exposed to way more European stuff early on. But I realized pretty early on that both Nickelodeon and the Disney Channel often use obese women when they have a black character. And in my adulthood I started to keep an eye out for that too in adult shows… it’s so common. I never liked how black people were portrayed as these obese people. It’s like they want the white people to pop even more in comparison. :/ As an adult I can definitely see more annoying stereotypes in movies etc.

I think they might’ve made rex white because Robbie is white and the idea of *Robbie* doing the “urban” voice is a little too on the nose

I loveee how everyone is ignoring the point talking about characters not even important in the video.

I remember towards the end of Drake and Josh( the really big shrimp movie) Helen was getting married and her grandmother had to stay with deal and Josh’s family for some reason before the wedding. Looking at the character now, I think she was a precursor to how Andre’s grandmother character. An older black woman who is loud and is depicted as having some sort of mental illness but it’s played off as a joke.

Hey my friend I’m hard of hearing can you please put captions on this video?

sam was supposedly written to be black, so the fried chicken stereotype and aggressive would’ve been more noticeable; edit: just got to this part in the video.

I always thought that the whole rex thing was robbie trying to sound "cooler" (?) and "saying his true thoughts and opinions" but i think i gave this show too much credit...

i always thought jocelyn was Samoan

Thank you man we needed this convo

This is the first video I've ever seen of yours but i thought it was exceptionally well through out, well written and explained and very well put together. Great work! I love and agree with your concepts and thought and I DO think all of these topics are important to talk about. Keep making content!

U cooked with this video. Put everything I've been thinking into words. Subscribed right away 🔥🔥🔥

The idea of Andre dating a girl general was always played off as a joke. That girl with the curly hair that was into Andre would've been a perfect match, and just when we get our hopes up that we'll be seeing more of her, they throw the "Hammertime" nonsense into it just because Andre had the potential to date a girl that was actually hotter and much more interesting than Jade. Andre was the only character in the whole group that most of us would love to hang out with because he was just super chill, loyal, supportive, and talented, but he wasn't allowed to have a normal life at all, which was very annoying.

The visual of Rex as "black" being controlled by a white performing was probably flagged as not a good look. This was a genuine concern and is even addressed in shows like West Wing, where Leo was concerned about the visual of Charlie "serving the President."

I chose the perfect time to rewatch Quinten Reviews’ videos because now everyone is on this subject!

Andre deserved better, honestly

i used to ship Andre and Tori so hard 😭 i remember being so confused as to why they wouldn’t do it because they got along so well

i never understood why scary was used to drscribe her when the other girls got cute names

2mins in and I have to pause to say this is such a fascinating story about the Spice Girls and an excellent way to start the video, I'm hooked in and my mind is blown already

these vids are always so insightful, ty for ur work ♡