Like, nearly every single holoprogram he creates during the show. The only one that isn't set in Earth's past is the bar that's based on a real earth place, that's still a historical landmark.

@@SapphWolf "the bar that's based on a real earth place", that just happens to be in Earth's past (from his point of view)? ;-)

I'd say that Tom Paris does not have a character arc, but maybe if you were writing the show, he would have had one.

@ Matt M - yes u are completely right.. Good stick up for Tom... I love voyager myself.

Yeah I watched it recently and by the end he becomes a more down to earth dad. Going from season 7 to season 1 Paris is kinda jarring. It’s kinda like Data’s arc - he seems static from episode to episode but season 7 Data is waaaay better at reading social cues than season 1 Data, which is embodied in his getting good at poker, and he also limits the needless specificity and other such things which also fall into the social awareness bucket. I mean, it’s subtle. But it’s there.

Ya and the wedding was definitely on camera!

That scene where they're stranded out in space together and think they're gonna die is one of the most beautiful moments in Trek

This hate on Voyager thing on this channel truly bothers me lol

Haha, not to be dismissive of your opinion, but in my opinion, it seems like the writers decided sometime around season 4 that Tom and B’Elanna liked each other the whole time, even though they had no on screen chemistry or foreshadowing at all in the first several seasons. If anything, there was the building blocks of a Harry/B’Elanna romance set up in the first episode and throughout the first season.

@@SuperPowerGeek The wedding we see on camera is actually between the demon planet silver blood clones of Tom and B’Elanna.

And as punishment if I remember correctly.

To be fair... having to be trained by The Doctor with his general capacity to socialise and not be a douche bag... is a pretty scathing punishment. I mean, the Emergency Medical Hologram is not meant for long term use--like only for enough time for the ship to return to the nearest Star Base and have a proper doctor assigned to them. Which usually is not that long of a period of time for the class of ship that Voyager is... and most certainly not expecting situations where a Federation ship gets stranded in the Delta Quadrant.

Army 19Delta Reconnaissance Surveillance and Target Acquisition we always had at least one actual medic in every line platoon. For some god unknown reason I was also singled out to go to college under orders and become a licensed Emergency Medical Technician the exact same skill set as ya know the guy who actually hold the MOS of MEDIC that usually was riding in my truck with me anyway but wait I was also.... *UAV Instructor Trainer (every bird in the unit was my problem you try telling a captain he can't legally order you to do xyz as a Cpl cause you refuse to lose your lic or go to jail if it goes wrong) *Postal Operations, *Key Control, *Ammo and hazmat handler, *sensitive site exploitation expert (basically make sure evidence is handled like I'm a damn CSI), *remote weapons station operator and maintainer and trainer, *BETSY tower operator maintainer (multi-million $$$ thermal observation mobile tower with fucking grown crystal lenses and a laser that can blind a person at 10 km) *Aribic language specialist (more time in a college classroom instead of training my guys) With informal training in BFV maintenance having knowledge of the operations system on the first gen of A3 bradlys to override and troubleshoot software faults on my own. Communications specialist having been trained to operate set up and install every single piece of commo equipment in our unit need power cables run from a GPS system in a truck tank or brad don't call maintenance no they woke my ass up. And somehow defector CQB instructor nothing stranger than having an E-7 from platoon ask you to train his NCOS and joes on how to clear buildings as E-4 in a combat zone. One of those im sorry did you ask what i think you asked me to do. All that on top of my main job of running my squad and handling VIP Personal Security Details. With most of that shit above my pay grade at the time oh yea that was all skill sets and duty positions I learned and held over a three-year time span half of that time in a combat zone. When star trek does wonky shit or fucked up orders i just sit back and think yup been there haha sucks for you. "Whats that wait no we are changing uniforms again that's 10 GD uniform types in fucking 12 years are you fucking kidding me! I don't get paid enough for this shit! pick one fucking one and stick with it till i die! this is real life not star trek i cant just replicate this shit for free!" rofl

It's because other than the doctor he's the only one with a medicine background

*Bernard Gilbert: wrong. The Doctor expects Tom to assist him while he is there, and complains multiple times about Tom being late or missing shifts. Chakotay even ends up enforcing it as I recall. Eventually 7 becomes the new protege and Tom is off the hook. Also Steve is a little hard on Tom's medic skills. He does point out he is not a doctor, but he ends up being pretty competent at treating injuries and triage (after some training from the doctor), during times when the doctor is not there.

To be fair, Tuvix was super creepy.

Janeway is Sith Lord!

I wonder if anybody ever made a Tuvix model/skin for either of the Elite Force games...

😂😂😂 that was hilarious

Still too soon

I mean, it was indicated that Tom was somewhat of a womaniser--or just not able to be satisfied by most women... And B'Elanna being Half-Klingon made it so that being able to have any kind of sexual relationship with her was not a major possibility. I mean... Half-Klingon children usually have their human parent dead from the Snu Snu. The fact that Tom was able to do stuff with her, and not end up dead... is actually hinted based on other relationships he talked about. ... and... also from his relationship advice he gave... to... Harry Kim... and... you know--I am surprised that Tom Paris did not get Harry Kim killed from that relationship advice... well, in any of the time lines that actually count and matter, at least. I mean... Tom Paris is able to bed a Klingon and live--and act kind of bored if it is not like that... Harry is... well... able to die from many many different ways that are not Snu Snu (but definitely include that).

Nah.

Given that she's the only one to have defeated the Borg as much as she has, she has more than earned that hypothetical line.

Except that absolutely nothing in that scene communicated that Paris was afraid. The reason why, of course, is because Paris had no lines in that scene, and that happened, in turn, because the scene was poorly written. Again, it's comforting and even fun to invent stories the show never told, but it's easy to see it never told them.

He's not. He was not a Harry Kim from an alternate reality. Voyager and all of its crew were twinned (the equivalent of being cloned by quantum physics.) He was identical to the original Harry Kim, including memories and life history up until that point. He wasn't from a different reality. He just didn't exist before.

The crew were twinned - in two seperate realities?

Sorta and not.

So is Naomi.

Voyager could be fairly weird...

A half-klingon that resists her klingon heritage?

According to Worf, all he has to do is recite poetry and duck

Torres's is a sad excuse for a Klingon so that doesn't say much about Paris

Well I think your right, its canon that tom Paris is good in bed.

I guess it's as good a summary of the character as any: Tom Paris, the so-so Star Trek boner joke.

You made me laugh with that one. It also opens up a whole world of possibilities, like how Tom Paris was a troubled kid because his dad always idolized that nice Locarno boy, and Tom just couldn't ever measure up. And when Locarno was tossed out of Star Fleet Academy, the dad started taking his frustrations out on Tom, who finally cracked under the pressure. Oh yeah, there's a whole dark backstory lurking there.

Well, he was supposed to be the same character. That is, until Voyager's producers realized they could screw the episode's writer out of royalties for the character by giving him a different name and slightly changing his background...

The story I've heard -- and Memory Alpha backs me up -- is that they wanted a character with the same vibe as Nick Locarno, but they couldn't find an actor who could do a good Nick Locarno, so someone finally said: "why don't we get the actor who played Nick Locarno?" As for Robert Duncan McNeill, he has a very good take on the two characters that we shouldn't forget. Nick Locarno was a worm who was good at looking like an upstanding guy, while Tom Paris was a good guy who was only superficially "bad". Nick Locarno wasn't Tom Paris in any of the ways that count.

Lol!

@@kingbeauregard lol The doctor finds in Tom's medical history records of his surgeries to look more like the son his father wanted!

It's not that simple, though, because _Deep Space Nine_ and _Babylon 5_ ran alongside _Voyager_ in the same genre and era, and, in one of the crueler twists of irony, were able to carry heavily serialized storytelling because they were _less_ popular. It was far from impossible, in any case.

@@MegaZeta sorry for necro but in this case it was that Voyager had pressure from the network execs while DS9 only had pressure from the studio. As DS9 was sold into first-run syndication while Voyager was what UPN was pinned on.

Yeah sometimes I think I know more about bob sacamano than I do chakotay.

I get what they were going for in ending the finale the way they did. I like the final shot of Voyager approaching Earth flanked by other ships. It's a nice image, the ship that's been alone for seven years rejoining the fleet. But in getting there they skipped over so many points (like the fate of the Maquis crew members, the Tom/Admiral Paris bit I complain about in the video, etc.) that seemed to be crying out for a resolution.

Steve Shives yeah that is a nice shot. What I think might also been good is another reunion scene, but this time the people didn't survive the first time are now all there, and maybe Tuvok doesn't get what ever he had thanks to some foreknowledge. But all that might not have fit the timetable or buget they had left. I don't know.

Steve Shives I don't see why you hate Star trek voyager its the most amazing series ever I mean come on It is cool andd wel written charaters

Zersixdracos I think Tuvok is a bit like Spok in some ways

I think that the reason why the last episode seem as it lacks proper ending is because the decision to cancel the show was made few episodes before the end. This is clearly visible because in the last three episodes don't follow the steady story progression phase that we have seen throughout the series. In the 23rd episode of the last season we say goodbye to Neelix who has been with us for almost entire show. That is often a sign for uncertainty of the show continuation. Then in 24th episode we got that strange story about doctor trying to force the crew to simply settle down on a nearby inhabitable planet instead of supporting the voyage home. In this episode we can see quite a bit effort from screenwriters to try and show again as many of the ships crew as possible at least one more time. And then in the last episode we have this rapid story wrap when Janeway from the future comes and helps Voyager get home safely with the use of Borg technology all within one episode. So it is clearly that writers didn't have enough time to finish all the loose ends and wrap up the story properly. If you compare the last season of Voyager with the last season of DS9 you can clearly see that DS9 they started wrapping the ends story somewhere in the middle of the last DS9 season and not in the last few episodes as it happened with Voyager.

Yeah... I don't think Steve is going to list "isn't a rapist" as a positive for a character. It's kind of... Assumed.

I don't count it as Canon. I can't... ugh... why, just why.....

Can confirm - flute, clarinet, oboe, and saxophone all have very similar fingerings, and the dual similarity with mouthpieces and embouchure on clarinet and saxophone makes switching from one to the other practically seamless.

same for violin and viola

@@sperocras so much so that kids who want to learn sax often learn on the clarinet when they’re tiny because it’s easier to hold. As I recall Wang actually did play the sax predominantly IRL but the writers chose the clarinet at first because they thought it seemed more in line with his character or something? But Wang felt like it was girly and pressured them to change it for ages. I don’t recall if it switched over in season 6 or season 7, but if it was season 7, it was probably because of the change in showrunners to the guys who headed up Enterprise season 4. They gave Harry a break in other ways too, like in “Nightingale”.

That's true they are reed instruments.

You're not following. The video makes it plain: yeah, Tom Paris knew a lot about the 20th century... and also about a million other things whenever the show decided it wanted a character to know about them for an episode. This is a sign of bad writing.

Voyager had a great premise and potentially interesting characters and failed to make best use of either. They stole most of their best bits from TNG and handwaved conflicts they’d set up in season one. There were good eps but, overall, Voyager was marked by a raft of unfulfilled potential.

Enterprise was so bad that people don't even remember it when talking about the worst of Star Trek. It was way worse than Voyager, but it doesn't feel as offensive because it doesn't even feel real. It was just some kind of mass hallucination we had after drinking some expired Orbitz

Were these descriptions supposed to be contradictory?

Are real people one dimensional? 🤔

There was nothing wrong with Harry's arc, and yes, he did have one. I like Steve's videos, but I swear, DS9 stans are some of the biggest snobs in the fandom. Harry did have character development. He became more assertive and self confident as the series progressed. That's even addressed in S4:E 24 (Demon) when Tuvok tries to patronize Harry about his knowledge of Demon class planets and Harry shuts him down. Not to mention "The Disease," one of my favorite VOY episodes where Harry caught that STD that made his skin glow after messing with that girl from the xenophobic race. He was literally yelling at Janeway in that one and doing all kinds of nonsense that Ensign Eager Kim had not previously done before on the show. Then there was S6:8 (Nightingale) where Harry disobeyed the Prime Directive by commanding that ship that had lost its captain, and thus getting himself involved in an intergalactic dispute. Now, I could see making that character development argument about Chakotay, but Harry? Nah.

kimbridge I'd classify Harry as the Jake sisco of voyager. Even Wesley had a bigger story arc albeit only being on tng for a couple of years!

Daniel Smith Harry's arc was an arc of mostly failure. Everytime his arc comes up, namely him becoming a more experienced officer he gets overconfident and fails. He works extremely hard to not be a rookie and gets schooled every single time. It's like the producers saying: "Harry, your character arc is your character trying to have a character arc but we won't allow it!" Some episodes are almost funny if you think about them like this. His character arc doesn't work because it is way too nuanced and simple at the same time. Therefore it fails. Same about Jake. Both have a very simple concept. Harry becoming a more experienced officer. Jake becoming a man of words instead of actions. But both concepts are very nuanced at the same time and not very linear or impactful. Both of their arcs cumulate in them not being able to change, because both arcs never got finished. Nullifying the same arcs in the process.

@@JoniWan77 ​ "Someone has to be the ensign," I believe that's what Garrett was told when he asked about further development of the Harry Kim character. It sucks, but Voyager was pretty set on having each character fulfill a certain role and personality type. Remember, they also created Star Trek shows for syndication at this time and changing one's personality too much would make the show inconsistent if you're just jumping into the middle of a random episode. Thankfully we've really leveled up our habits. Since we tend to binge watch more than watch things in random order that week, it makes more sense to have better beginning to end storytelling.

Inevitably, the answer to your sort of response is the same: it would be very _nice_ if the character had the arc you imagined in hindsight because you were fond of them.

Your comment's a good example of how "Mary Sue" doesn't really have any weight or substance. What about Tom Paris was a "Mary Sue"? As the video explains, he didn't have a random grab-bag of talents because the writers used him as a self-insertion character, but because the show had problems establishing _most_ of its characters.

Tom is less of a Mary Sue though because his main talent is piloting, and he was rigorously trained for that in the academy and has a family history of excellent Starfleet service. His need for his father's approval helps consolidate his character as an over achiever as well, so designing space ships and things like that is an easier sell. Wesley Crusher on the other hand is a teenager and they let him on the bridge to pilot a multibillion dollar spaceship with a diplomatic charter. He is really a Mary Sue because the writers thought it was the dream of every boy watching the show to pilot their own spaceship and they thought they needed a character to emulate that.

@@missmdubs1938 Don't forget that being a Mary Sue also implies a lack of struggle or difficulty. One of my favorite little details of Voyager was Tom's demotion to Ensign because he disobeyed a direct order to follow his conscience and do what he thought was right, and he was rightfully punished for it. It took... what, almost 2 seasons for him to be reinstated to his former rank? (Also remember the episode Destination: Oblivion where the memetic duplicate ship from the Demon Class planet forgot that they weren't the originals, and set off towards earth, and in that episode Tom and B'ellana are getting married and Tom was never demoted, so for that episode and that episode alone he's referred to as a Lieutenant? Fun little continuity clue that something is wrong right from the get-go) Whether or not Tom was right to disobey orders like that is really up for debate, as he ostensibly did the right thing, but did so by arrogantly deciding that he knew what was best for another culture, one in which he had no authority. That kind of moral ambiguity (something Trek has always been known for) is never applicable to a 'Mary Sue'. Voyager may have some real shitter episodes, but it also has some of my favorites from the entire franchise, and Tom is featured in a lot of them.

@@bakuhakudraws5603 he was re-promoted at the end of the season they demoted him (6?) so it’s more like 75% of a season or something like that. Kinda like with Odo’s being human, it seems longer in our memory than it really was.

It's Gary Stu, Star Trek fans could surely stand to learn a thing or two about the correct terminology to use.

Same!

Good LORD I'd KILL for that!!!

"Farscape" is the best show....ever.

Any show where two of the main characters have a hand up their asses at all times, gets my thumbs-up.

Congratulations. You just won the Internet for the day.

_Farscape_ is still the benchmark for TV science fiction.

No Babylon 5 is the benchmark.

So that warp 10 thing of being so fast as to be everywhere in the universe at the same time, must have been bad writing if warp 13 is possible?

Wesley managed the maneuver, as did the Bajoran cadet. Oh wait, that's "not" Tom Paris *eyeroll*

I so wanted them to get together!

Most anoying character

nah quark and chief o brien are the unsung heroes of that show.

She does have that completely awesome "If you want a war, I'll give you one" speech in the series premier.

For sure. Definitely one tough girl who don't take shit from no one. Garek was no slouch either. He was an intriguing character.

She isn't Starfleet, though... ;) (Sorry to fit the Star Trek nerd cliche...)

That doesn't sound "realistic" so much as it sounds like your personal fan fiction.

Yep most people didn't even catch that

They didn't develop, is the thing. But it's very easy to write a story you would have _liked_ the show to tell in hindsight, then claim that it did.

Honestly I don't think men can ever get over a woman captain. I feel it's alot of the reason they hate on it. I think Kate was fantastic. Voyager is definately one of my fav star treks along with TNG...there was many many examples of character development. But don't expect them to give the credit where it's due, unfortunately.

@@sheenaalexis8710 I'd take orders from Janeway any time - there are very few people of any gender I can honestly say that about - but I still think Voyager was a bit of a mess in many ways. The older I get, the more messes I find, but even when I was watching it for the first time as a teenager, I really really wanted to like it much more than Deep Space 9, but it just... didn't seem to hang together.