Acid Bath is pretty clear cut sludge. How can you say that "Dr. Seuss is Dead", "Cassie Eats Cockroaches", "New Corpse", "Dope Fiend", or "Locust Spawning" fall under stoner metal? Because they had a few chill songs? I guess "Breakout" and "Changes" makes Black Sabbath a jazz band.

Did she just say Queens of the Stone Age influenced Kyuss? Like... wat. Kyuss was dead and buried before QotSA even existed. QotSA literally rose from the ashes of Kyuss.

Stoner Metal, Stoner Rock, and Sludge Metal has been my favorite genre of metal since high school. I'll see if I can contribute: Stoner Metal: Sleep, Electric Wizard, High on Fire, Acid King, Weedeater, Bongzilla, & Orange Goblin Stoner Rock: Kyuss, Fu Manchu, Truckfighters, The Sword, Monster Magnet, Clutch, Red Fang, & Corrosion of Conformity Sludge Metal: Melvins, Acid Bath, Crowbar, Soilent Green, Eyehategod, Mastodon, Kylesa, Zoroaster, Baroness, & Black Tusk

Neither Bongzilla or Bongripper was mentioned for stoner metal? And Weedeater was only mentioned briefly. Sad day for stoner metal.

QOTSA definitely did not predate Kyuss. They formed after Kyuss split. On a side note, anything with John Garcia on vocals is amazing.

Is it just me, or, did she claim that QOTSA pre dated Kyuss? QOTSA rose out of the ashes of Kyuss. Sleep, Clutch, Monster Magnet were the first bands to actually be labeled Stoner Rock.

She doesn't like Clutch, so that disqualifies them as a stoner band? By Zed's logic, I have become bored of death metal, therefore it is no longer a subgenre of metal.

I just can't take her with the way she just waves bands off because she personally doesn't like them

Never been a better time for post metal. That must happen. Isis, Neurosis, Cult of luna, Pelican there are sooooo many highly respected bands in the genre. This is the time. I will continue to demand it every week!

Googling "Stoner Metal bands" and "Sludge Metal Bands" is way more informative than this "debate".

Acid Bath is clearly Sludge. My god Im sorry I love Natalies enthusiasm but she has no idea what shes talking about. Very annoying to watch

Acid Bath is one of the premier sludge metal bands ever. They are in NO WAY stoner metal.

We need to redo this episode

Arguing that Clutch didn't belong because they are more rock these days is fine, but that initial out of hand dismissal as if we should all just agree that Clutch is "laaaaame" was some Pitchfork level snobbery. I have to admit that I am "emotionally done with" critics like this.

This episode should really be redone with the guy from Blood Ceremony who was the guest for the top Doom albums episode, that guy actually knew what he was talking about and clearly loved the slower styles of Metal.

How the hell could you leave off Buzzoven and Grief? Both are innovators of sludge.

Stoner Metal =Almost always uses the blues scale for riffs Doom = Almost never uses the blues scale for riffs. Easy as that.

CROWBAR!!!!! EYEHATEGOD!!!!!! basically any band from NEW ORLEANS.

Did she really say Queens of the Stone Age influenced Kyuss??

Melvin's, Buzzov-en, Eyehategod, Weedeater should all be mentioned.

You know, when I saw this was the Stoner/Sludge episode I got really excited. Then I saw who the guest was all the excitement was gone. I feel like she really doesn't know what she's talking about, and that what she says is mostly opinion and she isn't really thinking about the bands' importance to the genre. I felt the same way in the Folk Metal episode. Does anyone else feel like this or is it just me?

Another thing, woman!! It is "Saint" Vitus NOT "St.", unless all of their album covers and merch were typo's.

Well shes just a goddamn genius aint she?!

Since when is Saint Vitus spelled St.Vitus?! She seems to really know her shit! lol

where's Bongzilla, I swear.

This needs to be redone with someone competent

ACID BATH=Sludge!Was good until this point

The misinformation about Saint Vitus is blood boiling. Not doom? "It's spelled St. Vitus" Every album cover has the word Saint on it. It's in the logo! god damn it.

Stoner rock/Stoner Metal/Stoner Doom should all be under the same umbrella. There's not really much of a huge difference between Kyuss, High on Fire, Sleep, Buried at Sea, Electric Wizard, Church of Misery, or Boris. There's differences, but they all cross into each other. It's all just varying degrees of fuzz and speed. Making them separate seems a bit nitpicky for me.

Eyehategod, Red Fang, Black Tusk, Electric Wizard, 16, Weedeater, Crowbar (my personal favorite).....all of these sludge/stoner bands are killer.

did she just say that queens of the stone age predates kyuss...?

Banger Staff: I think a very welcome guest to a Lock Horns segment would be Myke C-Town from Dead End Hip Hop...brilliant, passionate, refreshing KZfaqr who would be a good fit for maybe another black metal discussion?

Miss Zed was informed with her Folk Metal but she was not good at all on this one. There were some GLARING omissions. She really seemed to hold this board with an iron grip. Remember, this is not about what YOU think, it's about what the commenters think...oh wait. Seriously, Mastodon is prog sludge. Monster Magnet is one of the biggest and most defining stoner bands. Clutch is a stoner band. Weedeater is stoner. I really don't ever think that Zed needs to come back. Especially after trying to argue that St. Vitus is a stoner band. Have you listened to them?? This was a poor, poor episode.

Saint Vitus too fast.......Really?

i really want you to do post metal

The first stoner metal record was Masters of Reality.

wheres acid king

I'm very late to the party here but as someone who obsesses over these two genres to an unhealthy extent. I was really crushed not to see Bongzilla or Earth.

First marriage proposal? I proposed to Priya back in the Glam Metal chat. It wasn't acknowledged "per se", but as soon as I hit Enter, she gave a little nod as if to say, "come and get me big boy". It was at that moment that I realized we would grow old together.

I really think y’all should revisit this and do a completely separate video for sludge medal instead of just compiling it with stoner (yes they do share very similar qualities) especially considering you have done less notable sub-subgenres. Anyways, this is series is such a badass rabbit hole to go down and would love to see sludge as a subgenre and the sludge metal bands get the appreciation they deserve!

This lady is off her rocker. No Clutch? No COC? I'd like her to tell Pepper and Woody that they didn't make and still don't make Stoner/doom riffs. COC is 90s stoner rock 101.

Nebula, Monster Magnet, Karma to Burn, Brant Bjork, My Sleeping Karma, The Vintage Caravan, El Coco, Dozer, Grand Magus, Sasquatch, Truckfighters, Mondo Generator......

Masters of Reality, Unida, Monster Magnet and The Obsessed are HUGE oversights for Stoner. Also surprised that nobody corrected Natalie on the fact that Josh Homme started QOTSA in 1997, well after Kyuss broke up. They're not forefathers, so much as the mainstream alt-rock evolution of Stoner. Fu Manchu, I think, are/were pretty marginal in comparison.

also, shout out to Truck Fighters

So I’ve come back a year later to watch this again, thinking maybe this wasn’t as bad as I remember... wrong! It’s even worse! Banger, you have to redo this segment! And you have to get a different guest that actually knows and understands this sub-genre. No hipsters please!

Black Pyramid. Weedeater. Bongzilla. Dopethrone. Seedy Jeezus. The Sword

So where would Monster Magnet be? Mastermind, Dopes, Superjudge, etc.-- I can only describe these Albums as Stoner. Am I wrong here? MM are a total Stoner Band.

The cute round one needs to hear more Clutch.

Saint Vitus and Pentagram need to be put up with there with Kyuss, Electric Wizard and Sleep as the "firsts" and "fathers" of this genre

*Calling it Psychedelic (Doom) Metal is WAY better than calling it Stoner (Doom) Metal!*

I'd throw in Fu Manchu, Acrimony, High On Fire, Earthless, and Spiritual Beggars.

Glad to see Acid bath on the list, they are soo good. Also I hope you guy's eventually do a crust punk list

When this chick says that Mastodon are "too fast" to be in sludge, it makes me question if she's ever actually listened to EHG. Also, though I can see why they aren't on this list, if anyone reading this wants to listen to a fucking GNARLY band that goes under the radar A LOT: Cavity.

Sorry I missed the stream. Needed for stoner: Monster Magnet, The Sword, Earth and Clutch. I also consider White Zombie's La Sexorcisto a stoner metal album.

What about Red Fang?

Yeah just because she doesn't like Clutch personally doesn't mean she has to write them off completely. They've gone more down the bluesy direction with their recent albums, but their Self-titled and Elephant Riders are staples albums in the stoner genre.

The Obsessesed ?

Brutal lack of DIY bands on this list. Corrupted, Grief and Noothgrush are super deserving for being absolute pillars of sludge. They are all pure misanthropy but don't sound like they are from the south - bonus points. They really carried the flag before Doom and it's subgenres surged in the aughts.

Queens of the stone age was started after kyuss by some of the same people all you had to do was look them up on wikipedia

What about Soundgarden?

Noothgrush and Grief are both essential Sludge bands.

I like how they just skipped right past Monster Magnet. Absolutely need to be under Stoner as does Earth.

Thumbs up for including High on Fire!

Why is this even an episode? Stoner/Sludge..... Although some may think the genres are common, these are different genres, and in their own right should have their own episode.

If Neurosis and Isis didn't belong to this tree, then you got to do a Post Metal episode! With Cult of Luna and Pelican too!

When she said maybe the day will come when there is blackened atmospheric doom metal. I thought to myself, well we already have it. That beast of a band is, The Ruins Of Beverast!

I’d say Mastodon first 3 (I’m including the re released EP album they were certainly more sludge and around Blood Mtn they became more proggy

No Monster Magnet on stoner? These guys don´t know shit

I learned a lot from this episode. Out of all the sub-genres discussed so far, Stoner was the one I knew least about. I've always assumed that since I don't smoke that I wouldn't really "get it", so I never paid too much attention. Glad to learn that's not the case. Also, as a guitarist, the thought of "smokey" guitar tones is very interesting. Now I have a bunch of cool bands to check out.

I think it's extremely disappointing to not give credit to Clutch.

No Weedeater???

Everyone at Banger Bar and Banger TV. If you guys were doing this show while I was doing my senior project in high school, which was on the 30+ sub genres of heavy metal, I would've used this show as a source.

if I hear her say texture one more time I'm gonna lose my shit. it doesn't make any sense. no musicians know what the hell your talking about

this lady does not know what she's talking about.

I thought Natalie did a great job describing the differences of Doom and Stoner (and yes, Eye Hate God I believe is the link to Southern Sludge to be created). I don't get the blatant HATE for her not adding Clutch, who I NEVER thought of as "Stoner" (same for Mastodon), they were their own sound. Like C.O.C., they were Crossover, Thrash, Doom, Alternative/Grunge and Metal and then back to their roots. Don't think of the Melvins as just a Stoner band though. But I don't see her just putting up bands that she "likes" - all the bands that are up I totally see representing the model. I don't really get the "smokey" reference, but I do think "Fuzzy" because of the Fuzz Box pedals (Electro Harmonix "Big Muff π" Pedal? I still own one ;). I would have added "Operator Generator", but especially "Sheavy" - bringing back the earliest Black Sabbath, harking back to the late 60's/early 70's, but in the late 90's and so on. I think St. Vitus could fit both Doom and Stoner as influencial. Clutch isn't bad folks, I am not like an insane fan, but they are their own entity from the years hearing them.

The amount of Clutch hate from Natalie kind of bums me out. I think they're absolutely an essential stoner metal band (though admittedly it borders on being stoner rock or just plain rock and roll these days imo).

Obviously some of her statements don't exactly work out well, but her points about the common ancestors and the textures of this sound are probably some of the best explained definitions I've ever heard.

Thank you for this debate! Stoner metal is one of the most important influences in modern metal!

Yeah Weedeater have to be on there! The Sword have been around since late 90’s and were the first in this newest wave of “stoner doom bands”! The Sword is almost quintessential doom band kinda like blood ceremony and their purest angle they take!!!

A little over 50 minutes of video and no Neurosis... I don't even know... what the fuck?

She was way off base regarding Clutch. Clutch certainly deserves to be up there.

They have to redo this list with both genres separately. Sure they got a lot of the main bands, but missed a ton on both sides and a lot of bands didn’t get talked about enough

Type 0 was also partly doom , why you guys forgot them ?

How can you leave out Monster Magnet? "Shakes head"

"Smokey texture".

7 years late watching this, but as a non-stoner lover of all things stoner metal I am over the moon in agreement with Natalie's addition of the Melvins to this list (and most everything else she has said so far, 15 mins in).

I would have loved to ask Natalie what she meant by song structures. I take it she doesn't mean a ABA song structure or something like that. She must instead mean something like how riffs are written and connected and arranged? I don't know. But being told a band has the "wrong song structures" to be in a genre/subgenre without further elaboration isn't terribly explanatory.

It actually is Saint Vitus not St Vitus. So it was right the first time lol.

i wanted to hear Red Fang this entire time and once it was mentioned, it was shot down because it was too young? to call this ridiculous would be the understatement of the century

I think I once argued with this chick on twitter.

LOCK HORNS: power violence band debate! please!

'smokeyness of the texture"

MELVINS.the fact that you cant just put them in a category and have influenced almost all the great music you hear today means they might be the greatest metal band of all time.that is all

When Melvins sink into a sludge song, no one is on their level. xo

The only Crowbar albums I listened to, in order, are "Sever the Wicked Hand" and "Symmetry in Black." Ilike the second one (the one I bought), but STWH was just... BEAUTIFUL!!! Also wondered if they could also fall under thrash, since some songs had a lot of speed to them, though more on a smooth rhythm.

Kylesa is awesome... and the lead singer was considered a pioneer of sludge metal when she was with Damad

I was wondering about Neurosis, Isis and Cult of Luna. If they aren't sludge what are they?

No Cathedral? Aren’t they Stoner Doom/ Sludge?

Natalie was a bad pick for this episode IMO. A lot of people pointed out some misinformation that she spouted out and how her personal opinions got in the way, so I won't really harp on that. She also did a poor job defining stoner metal, using nebulous terms like "smoky" or "running hot" instead of mentioning stuff like downtuned guitars or blues-influenced riffs. There were also quite a few painful omissions that helped bridge the gap between stoner and sludge like Weedeater and Bongzilla, and Bongripper is one of the most-talked about bands in the current stoner scene.

Yob?Acid Witch? Bongripper?