Strange Feuds: Peter David vs The Romani?

Рет қаралды 1,752

3 жыл бұрын

A blast from 2016 New York City Comic Con, where Peter David who was on an LGBTQ X-Men panel found himself accused of racism against the Romani. How in the world did we get here? And why does the Romani advocacy group for positive interactions and relations use Dr. Doom in their logo?

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@vincelehnsherr933 3 жыл бұрын

Hey! I´m Vicente, the guy who talked to Peter David. I´ll try to answer your questions of the video in case anybody has any interest. Why did we choose Dr.Doom? is just badass and the only Romany comic character that was consistent in his identity from the 60's, many others were sometimes Romany and sometimes not. What happened in Comic Con 2016? The panel was on representation, and me and some friends asked about Romany representation in several panels, no agenda, no lobby, no nothing, I thought that I could manage for my children to read more positive stuff about themselves, I did the logo in 15 minutes.Peter was the only panelist with this kind of answer, Larry Hama and many others showed themselves super positive sharing their own stories of struggle for representation. No, we did not blackmailed Peter David, he insisted we don´t make public any of the videos where he said racist stuff, and for two days I sat with him and guide him over Romani history, he said he´ll love to learn more, but also insisted in front of many artist that he´ll never apologize, and that all Romani are bad.I tried to make the simple argument that I don't have broken legs, and I am Romani, and therefore not all Romani parents break their children legs, it did not work at all.I asked for a meeting with somebody else in Marvel, I talked with Axel Alonso and Greg Pak and others, they simply were in panic because the Marvel policies of “diversity” were not in place with us, and that was against their image at the time. What happened to me and RomaPop? I had a health problems, I semi retired and married, I have a children on the way, living in Berlin and writing stuff for my family and not much more to tell.I worked for the university of Washington for some time, and co-organized the Roma commemoration at Auschwitz for 10 years.RomaPop did some nice stuff 4-5 years ago, and we may one day have a revival, but since it seems nobody care anymore about diversity I don't see the need to push. Do I think Peter David is racist? I don´t know, does he hate Romani people? Probably not.But he does think we all break the legs of our children, and this is just bizarre, and yes, probably fit in the description of racism.By the way, I love Peter David comics and I spent my childhood reading them, to this day I think he wrote the best Hulk ever and a pretty solid X-Factor. If anybody has any questions, let me know. Best to all.

@ComicsPerch 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you very much for helping fill in the blanks! And for what it’s worth, I appreciate the simplicity of your answer on the logo completely. :)

@Thoughtful- Күн бұрын

I've never heard the breaking children's legs thing before but looking at it logically it seems highly unlikely at the very least. What's more likely, that parents deliberately break their children's legs or that an oppressed group who often have negative rumors associated with them have had this allegation made against them too. How can you flamenco dance with broken legs

@RickInMaryland 3 жыл бұрын

I'm not sure an apology counters what he said. He repeated a racist trope on a public stage, giving everyone in the audience a reason to think negatively about people they've never met. Peter David probably thought it was okay because prejudice against the Roma people is still somehow acceptable in our society. Think about all the times you hear the word "gypped" used to convey cheated or swindled. In Peter David's defense, he's not a very smart person. His recent IRS problems prove that.

@billybarnett2846 3 жыл бұрын

When did Doctor Doom's mask become the flag of the Romani?

@grimreads 3 жыл бұрын

In Europe and especially in the Balkans, the Romani people are the equivalent of US's African Americans (in Northern/Western Europe slavic folks and Southerners are also frowned upon). The G- word is the equivalent of the N-word over here. To give you some insight, if I came to the US, heard a couple of people saying that BIPOC are a lazy no good bunch of violent thugs and welfare queens and then went and said that in public I would have done the same as Peter David.

@kyleweaver2578 3 жыл бұрын

That logo is dope

@Shneily-Wheely 3 жыл бұрын

Dr Doom is the biggest, and as far as I know the only Romani character in comics. That's is probably why it was chosen.

@tomfox8551 Күн бұрын

Quicksilver Scarlet Witch!

@richmcgee434 3 жыл бұрын

For those asking about the Doctor Doom connection, wiki insists Vic is canonically a Roma, his fictional country of Latveria has a large Romani population that he takes a particular interest in and has declared to be protected citizens, and part of the country is carved out of real-world Romania (which yes, I know is not named for the Romani people) with the capitol of Doomstadt replacing Timisoara, one of the major cities of the real-world country. Lots of ties, and frankly picking an actual honest-to-badness supervillain as an iconic figure for your movement doesn't seem particularly crazy to me given the kinds of politicians found in the real world right now. Of course, that is wiki's listing for Latveria. Surely only a lunatic would edit a fictional nation's page to support choosing Doom's mask for their flag just because it looks badass and will piss off Marvel, right?

@ComicsPerch 3 жыл бұрын

I mean, Ted Bundy came from the US but I'm not making a flag using his image.

@richmcgee434 3 жыл бұрын

@@ComicsPerch Sure, not arguing that it's a terrible idea. But at least there's a sort-of-comprehensible explanation for the choice. Honestly, it's not like they have a ton of other options at present. Positive representations of the Romani are awfully thin on the ground in mainstream media, a side effect of being demonized in Europe for millenia.

@vincelehnsherr933 3 жыл бұрын

I would have love to edit Latveria´s page but I´m too lazy.I simply love Doom and Magneto and think their great villains, I thought Doom was cool as symbol, but we did the logo in 15 minutes without much thought.

@andrewrowland6086 3 жыл бұрын

Context is everything.

@inotaishu1 3 жыл бұрын

Rodriguez is actually a gitano from Spain and I've met him once and he is a bigger fan of Magneto. He seemed mostly fine but there are some troubling elements with him.

@cruddddddddddddddd 3 жыл бұрын

I do think ppl should be allowed to make mistakes. We all stick our feet in our mouths on occasion. That said, if David had said something controversial about another group that frequently gets attention from the sites you mentioned, he would’ve been crucified. I’d never heard this, so I’ll check out the video. Interesting topic

@luciferfernandez7094 3 жыл бұрын

Watched the video. The UGOI at Mad couldn’t have plotted it better. No, PAD doesn’t comes up as a racist, just as an imbecile. His apology, about getting mad about what he saw - is even more idiotic: is he aware about all the ugly stuff to be mad about in his OWN DAMN COUNTRY? Dunno, PAD used to be sharp! He sounds like a rambling old man nowadays... Dunno exactly what the correct answer to the guy was, but for sure it’s not irrational rambling,

@superthorc6894 3 жыл бұрын

Most people make a feud of one person Peter David make a feud of a group (lol wasn’t exactly that but still) Still articles hit piece will alway punch down on people anyhow

@AL-ws5yi 3 жыл бұрын

Huh, never heard this story before. Reality is stranger than fiction.

@SamGuthrie1977 3 жыл бұрын

PAD, Byrne, and Larsen were all renown for their feuding propensity. But clearly, Roma Doom there was trying to take advantage of it.

@SamGuthrie1977 3 жыл бұрын

@@paulreilly2304 LOL true

@ComicsPerch 3 жыл бұрын

Well...

@newdamage5945 3 жыл бұрын

Yeah PAD and Byrne are real pains in the ass although I love their work especially PAD but you make a good point.

@RockandrollNegro 3 жыл бұрын

The funniest thing to me is that this transpired during a panel hosted by GLAAD that basically was a straight hour of everyone blowing each other over how woke and diverse they all were, then Peter David shits on Gypsies face to face with Romani comic fan activists that use megalomaniacal mass murderer Doctor Doom as their mascot. You can't make that stuff up.

@jjdillon1207 Жыл бұрын

DEI has ruined the comic industry

@Firevine 3 жыл бұрын

I'd love to think that this is the silliest, most absurd thing I'll ever hear about in the world of comics, but alas, I know that someone, somewhere will up the ante. There are 360+ million people in the United States, and the comic industry is circling the drain here. There's 20 million in Romania. How many people there can actually possibly care about their "representation" in comics. No one, no business, no entity anywhere OWES you representation in their product. That means you too, Mr. Reddit Fedora Wearing Nice Guy Gamer My Little Pony Furry Fetishist. If you want your particular niche or kink or whatever else "represented", write it your damned self. Don't depend on anyone else to pander to your self absorption.

@nrcallender 3 жыл бұрын

Romani were already being represented and they were being represented in way that perpetuates years of serious oppression. Standing up against racism is the farthest thing from whining there is. You've misrepresented this situation so severely that you're either a racist yourself or have serious inability to comprehend language.

@simonbarnett8668 3 жыл бұрын

@@nrcallender Do you have any personal experience traveling in Europe? Sometimes "Bad opinions" of groups of people are from personal experiences and observations, not "Stereotypes and oppression". Your accusation of racism or ignorance leveled at the above commenter is knee-jerk and in no way helps your point. I'm not trying to start an argument with you, just suggesting that calling people racist for saying something you don't like or have knowledge of how they came to their position doesn't help you. Cheers.

@ThW5 3 жыл бұрын

What were you trying to say ??? Romans, Romanians and Romani are not the same group of people. The Romani are the OTHER Europeans of Asian descent exterminated by the Nazis, and there seem to be about a million of them in the United States of America: Marvel characters seen as Romani (to a degree): Doctor Doom, Margali Szardos, Amanda Sefton, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Nightcrawler, Meggan other words: The main villain of Marvel's First Superhero Family, a very scary witch, her daughter (not above dating her foster bro), about half the original Brotherhood of mutants, i.e. an arrogant, quick to anger speedster, and a very scary witch, with some magic of wundagore involved in all of that, and the most devilish looking of the main X-men ever, which has been sort of retconned in sort of a half-human devil at a time and a woman who seemed more fay. Oh that story? They could tell you one of those in at least half of the former soviet satelite countries, often they aren't true at all... Romania is just one of those countries, that's all. The point is that the Romani PEOPLES lack PROPER presentation and feel MISrepresented instead, not UNrepresented, a bit like two out of every three Marvel Afro-Americans would be into voodoo of some sort, that's worse... Assisting (no matter how minor) in the demonization of the Romani people, is taking the side of that guy, who is so well-remembered as being punched by Captain America :) Just imagine that Marvel's line-up of Jewish characters was just as demonic, OK, Magneto may be only in his motivation more noble than Doom, and Thing is a monster, but his parentage has always been left human, and Kitty Pryde, Iceman, Doc Samson and Sabra seem to be rather regular superheroes, without scary magic and all that. OK, Moon Knight might be a bit weird, but still... (and yes, Pietro and Wanda could be part Jewish based on descent, and which retcons you accept, but still, they weren't raised that way). Yes, may of important Marvel creators were Jewish: That is the very point, how could a company, with those Jewish roots, with that anti-Nazi past fail to see and balance that demonization, by the way the concept that Kurt, Wanda and Pietro were raised by Romani who were not their biological parents seems related to the concept of Romani child thieves and to reinforce it, sure it is justified and all, but happens a LOT of the important mutants from Europe, of which there aren't that many. I read that Roma-pop "poster" as saying: [Rom in (US) pop culture, they still depict us as MEGALOMANIAC MONSTERS, as they always did.] Doctor Doom is not a mascotte, but an iconic accusation...

@vincelehnsherr933 3 жыл бұрын

@@ThW5 Thanks for the support , that was an epic comment. I´m the guy who made the question to Peter David.It means a world to me to know that some people really get it.A big hug from Berlin.

@JohnWick-ro8zv Жыл бұрын

@@vincelehnsherr933 you are a legend

@bretts8070 3 жыл бұрын

My gosh, I had forgotten about this story, haha.

@illithidlore 3 жыл бұрын

I definitely feel for the guy wanting to see better representation of the Romani people in pop culture. We all get angry and we all make mistakes, but it sounds like PAD practically went on a Mel Gibson level tirade. Are there bad Romani people? Sure. There are bad people from every group, but that doesn't mean that you write them all off. Even if PAD hadn't tried to get he guy the sit-down he wanted, he really should have just had his mea culpa and unequivocally apologized. Don't say "I'm sorry, but..." because nothing in that statement before "but" matters.

@vincelehnsherr933 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the positive comment, that is exactly what I felt in the days following the panel.

@krishall2086 3 жыл бұрын

I somehow missed the session where progressive thinking jettisoned the idea that 'you can't judge an entire demographic by the actions of individuals within that demographic'. That used to be fundamental, now it seems to be gone completely. My Grandmother was Romani but I rescind the opportunity to take personal affront because, honestly, it's too much of a stretch, so I'm just a white middle-aged guy with nothing to be put out about here :)

@TheSnapdad 3 жыл бұрын

Is there is a level of activity below sedentary? I have tried but it appears some of these comic book writers have achieved whatever that nirvana is.

@Off-Brand_Devin 3 жыл бұрын

So, Peter David was blackmailed for a meeting with Marvel editorial by a Romani guy trying to improve representation (and I assume the perception) of Romani people? Seems counterproductive.

@vincelehnsherr933 3 жыл бұрын

Guys, nobody blackmailed nobody, I was a spanish gitano with a funny hat and no plan, people seem to believe some crazy stuff, I just wanted a bit of respect for my people, that's all.

@Off-Brand_Devin 3 жыл бұрын

@@vincelehnsherr933 Whoa. Did not expect to get a reply from the guy involved. I had to listen again to even remember what this was all about, so I'll take you at your word.

@howzyerfather 3 жыл бұрын

Was the Romani guy at the con trying to angle for a writing gig?

@vincelehnsherr933 3 жыл бұрын

I just made a question bro!

@gareckthetailor9918 Жыл бұрын

incredible how the second you mention the bought out af sites that tried to dogpile on him my give a shit-ometer turns into the negative lol

@rorshach1117 3 жыл бұрын

He should have straight up apologized, completely. These stories about some Romani are probably true, but these practices are universal in a lot of countries and shouldn't be seen as indicative of all a people, a sentiment David should know, since he has been on the ardent activist many many times on the other end when it comes to LGBTQ and Jewish issues . David took a single story that may not be true at all and made it his opinion of an entire people. David is also the SJW before SJWs. He's been just as ardently one-sided on LGBTQ and Jewish issues is his personal speech, even though his writing has been amazingly even-handed (I remember his Supergirl issue about a hateful speaker coming to a college campus and how he humanized a person he actually disagreed with). I guess what goes around, comes around, right?

@robertroberts5090 3 жыл бұрын

It's a bit unclear in your video, you might already know this, but Roma and Romanian's are two different things. Although to be more confusing Roma are named after Romania too, although they probably originated in northern India and traveled west for centuries.

@clonegeek3317 3 жыл бұрын

Any more feud stories?

@EvilShredder32x 3 жыл бұрын

ibb.co/1mbtwV1 how does something like this make it into a book? Mars attack red Sonja 2. Could you make a video about comic typos? Would be cool to see the ones that were big.

@WilliamByronIs 2 жыл бұрын

There's no excuse and no way to justify or rationalize Peter David's behavior. Unfortunately, it's geek culture and fandom that enables this kind of toxicity- Peter David would not speak to someone on the street like that, but he'll justify doing it on a panel. The way that man approached him and presented his question was completely respectable. People need to get off their nostalgia and stop putting these people on pedestals. I loved The Hulk in 1987-1993 and bought it every month as a child in an abusive household and lived vicariously through those stories. Guess what- my appreciation and sentimental feelings for those stories does not prohibit me from calling out Peter David for being abusive and pompous. He's horrible.

@WilliamByronIs 2 жыл бұрын

Saying he was tired from a convention is nonsense. There's no excuse. You're being paid to be there- don't go then. What a spoiled man child Peter David is.