Strong 3D prints through ANNEALING, but... Part 1: PLA

Рет қаралды 417,486

Күн бұрын

Start your Squarespace free trial today at www.squarespace.com/cnckitchen and use code CNCKITCHEN to get 10% off your first purchase.
Check out the all new CNCKitchen.com (work in progress) !
Everyone, who is into 3D printing has already heard that you can anneal, temper or bake your 3D prints in order to increase strength. There is little data on this topic available, so I tested the influence of annealing on PLA in this video. There will be more videos coming with tests on materials like PETG, ABS or Nylon. I'll be investigating the myth if you can really bake your layers together when you heat treat your 3D prints. Watch and find out more!
💚 Support me 💚
Patreon: / cnckitchen
Join as a KZfaq member!
Original CNC Kitchen Threaded Inserts: geni.us/CNCKInsertsChoice
Merch: teespring.com/stores/cnckitchen
Buy an Original Prusa i3 printer: geni.us/CNCKPrusa
PayPal: www.paypal.me/CNCKitchen
Shop at Matterhackers(US): www.matterhackers.com/?aff=7479
Shop at 3DJake(EU): geni.us/zHvnB
🎙Check out my PODCAST with Tom Sanladerer
/ @themeltzone
🛠Tested Materials
Formfutura Premium PLA: www.formfutura.com/shop/categ...
Formfutura Volcano PLA: www.formfutura.com/shop/categ...
Spoolworks PLA: e3d-online.com/spoolworks-pla
📚Papers and further information
Effects of Annealing Time and Temperature on the
Crystallinity and Heat Resistance Behavior of
Injection-Molded Poly(lactic acid): www.academia.edu/download/516...
rigid.ink/blogs/news/how-to-a...
www.fabbaloo.com/blog/2019/5/...
www.fargo3dprinting.com/annea...
www.justinmklam.com/posts/201...
⚙ My gear (Affiliate Links):
🎥 CAMERAS & LENSES
Panasonic GH5 - Professional 4k60 camera: geni.us/LMN0CmS
Panasonic GX80/GX85 - Great value system camera: geni.us/M2Sm
10-25mm f1.4 - Awesome Lense: geni.us/ZTBH
30mm f2.8 macro - Great Macro Lense: geni.us/vEwqD
12-35mm f2.6 - Great allround lense: geni.us/S9GOsr
14-140mm f3.5-5.6 - My go-to travel lense: geni.us/fSAyKo
25mm f1.4 - Nice prime for photoraphy: geni.us/mqWM
🎙AUDIO
Rode Video Mic Pro - Shotgun mic: geni.us/6JFRdJ
Rode Film Maker Kit - Wireless mic: geni.us/XMD2N
Rode NT-USB - Studio Mic: geni.us/YVONvy
🔴 LIVE STREAMING
Elgatoo Stream Deck: geni.us/ppIiAL
Elgatoo HDMI USB Capture Card: geni.us/imhD
Logitech C920 - Overhead camera: geni.us/ViVgB
🏆 Do you want to help me cover my running costs? Send me a dollar or two over PayPal, it helps me a lot!
www.paypal.me/CNCKitchen
🌼 Even watching the ads before my videos helps me a lot!
Follow me on Twitter: / cnc_kitchen
DISCLAIMER: This video was sponsored by Squarespace.

Пікірлер: 687

@xyzconceptsYT 4 жыл бұрын

I have done anealing of PLA, I tried a 3D benchy. The layers fused so well, there were no layer lines to the naked eye. The Benchy was now a perfect PLA puddle.

@CNCKitchen 4 жыл бұрын

Congratulations 😉

@antoniocialfi77 4 жыл бұрын

You had us in the first half, not gonna lie

@mururoa7024 4 жыл бұрын

You just melted the surface. Cut it open and you'll see the layers are still there. There's no way FDM can compete with injection molding unless you're ready to shed $800K for an industrial printer from say Siemens or HP.

@xyzconceptsYT 4 жыл бұрын

@@mururoa7024 The PLA puddle means annealing went horribly wrong. I made no claim or comparing that it was like "injection moulding" at all.

@mb2k100 4 жыл бұрын

@@mururoa7024 R/woooosh

@feliperodrigues2487 Жыл бұрын

Hi Sthephan! I was able to get a +300% increase in impact resistance while annealing natural PLA. I tested according to ASTM D4508, for which the sample is smaller. As printed, it broke easily, but after 20min at 95°C they did not even break, using the same pendulum. I will be publishing the results next year at the Brazilian Congress of Manufacturing Engineering (COBEF2023).

@CuttinInIdaho Жыл бұрын

are the results available?

@SpunkyGo0se 11 ай бұрын

link the results plz

@AutoRevLife 8 ай бұрын

Was there any warping?

@waynefilkins8394 5 ай бұрын

have you tried petg?

@MisterMakerNL 4 жыл бұрын

I finally get your you-tube channel name.

@court2379 4 жыл бұрын

But what does his wife say about hijacking the oven?

@jaynayk1176 4 жыл бұрын

Court when the print is thin it might I don’t know work with the heatet bet

@AnsAnsAns 2 жыл бұрын

I don't

@moleyfromsmokelawn6902 Жыл бұрын

@@AnsAnsAns cnc KITCHEN. he uses a kitchen appliance in the video 🤙🏻

@HitsandHeadlines 4 жыл бұрын

Stephan, you are a godsend for the 3d printing community. Thank you for your service

@CNCKitchen 4 жыл бұрын

At your service 😉

@capmilk 4 жыл бұрын

Don't listen to Skynet! They will be printing Terminators soon!

@HitsandHeadlines 4 жыл бұрын

@@capmilk 😈😈😈

@subtilo3322 3 жыл бұрын

Couldn't agree more. Greetings from Belgium.

@iandawkins2182 4 жыл бұрын

I love what you are doing, taking 3D printer to the next level and breaking new ground and dispelling urban myths on 3D printed parts. Thanks and respect.

@CNCKitchen 4 жыл бұрын

You're welcome!

@jonwebb9261 4 жыл бұрын

As always, this video was incredibly informative and all the testing was very detailed. You really are an asset to the 3D printing community and I've seen no other channel go into detail in the way you do. Great job man

@gianfrancolozupone3271 4 жыл бұрын

I have tried boiling some PLA+ parts (kind of ring shaped) and letting them cool down to 40c in the water. They were thin walled parts, 2mm thick, so 10 minutes boiling was more than enough to change the temperature resistance. As a result the part was still hard at 80c while normal PLA gets rubbery at 50/55. But the same results with deformation and warping. Uneven depending on the axis. I will keep trying with other shapes and failed prints just for fun. I still think that this can be useful in parts that can be printed, annealed and then post proccesed to get the desired dimensions (sanding, drilling, etc. ). Great channel!! I really apreciate your work. Congrats!!

@ZILLION4EVER 4 жыл бұрын

reacting to your question on 2:20: yes, used volcano pla (formfutura, crimps minimal, reasonnably cheap as I live in Belgium, for usa the shipping must be crazy) like you used on that coffee maker like a year ago (?) printed clotheshangers from that and they are holding up after one year of serious (ab)use : one time I noticed visitors put like 3 wet winter jackets (heavy!) on one hook and it didn't fail. Used your 'making parts stronger info' vid and did print them with 5 perimeters instead of high infill. clearly worked, thanx for all the research Stephan!!

@andylindsaytunes 4 жыл бұрын

You should have called this episode "Make 'em, Bake 'em, and Break 'em."

@gannacss78 4 жыл бұрын

Hi! I looked a bit into that subject previously to improve my quadcopter strength. I found that if I disabled cooling and tweeked a bit the temperatures the parts were almost not deformed after the heat treatment. Of course, disabling cooling and the temperatures affect the look and it is not suitable for all parts but if you are only looking for strength it is good and you do not need to compensate for any deformation. Thanks for the work you do. It is quite interesting and helping. :-)

4 жыл бұрын

I'd like to see you test the hook that completely melted and see how it fails compared to the normal vertical hook. Great video always enjoy them thanks.

@anyuferrari 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you very much for this information! I was looking everywhere for a plastic that can stand both about 100ºC and some steam pressure. I´ll try now with PLA, PET and HIPS and annealing them. You helped me a lot!

@jonathanramirez4183 4 жыл бұрын

I just tried annealing Proto-pasta PLA in sand and had great results. I put the parts in a glass baking dish, covered in 70 mesh high purity silica sand and left a probe in the center of the sand/glass plate setup. I used a convection oven. It took about an hour to reach 100C in the middle; I held it for 10 and then turned the oven off and left everything in there to cool. I was pleased with dimensional stability of my parts.

@mcoozfpvish823 4 жыл бұрын

man your videos are so informative... deftly got me hooked

@jcugnoni 4 жыл бұрын

Great video. Another property that would be interesting to test is the creep resistance. I have had several PLA part fail over time under constant load (preloaded assembly for example). I guess that increase in crystalinity could reduce the creep rate. For the load, you could compare several heat treatments at 70% to 80% of ultimate strength for example.

@antone.henderson 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the enlightenment. Explaining a complex matter in an easy to comprehend format is no easy undertaking. Regards Tony

@danapatelzick594 4 жыл бұрын

Your work is really done well. Please continue.

@ElectricalInsanity 4 жыл бұрын

I wonder if using a heated build chamber would make a difference in layer adhesion?

@Slavko_Husam 4 жыл бұрын

good question, I would like to know the answer too

@faxxzc 4 жыл бұрын

Yes it does. i get up to 100% adhesion in the Z compared to the xy

@Anon.G 4 жыл бұрын

Yeah it does, same with lowering the fan speed

@MrHeHim 4 жыл бұрын

Keeping the print warm definitely helps with layer adhesion, same with slower printing speed (really slow) and slower cooling fan or just turned off. Which has me investigating how to turn off the cooling fan for internal fill, so that the fan only turns on for the shell. Furthermore, so the fan only turns on at a certain level of degree and ceiling layers. So that when you print vertical walls there's no cooling fan, but once you reach let's say 75 degrees it starts to kick in or ramp up for the outer shell if its printing outwards or the inner layer if its printing inwards. Might have to write my own code, haven't done that in a while lol.

4 жыл бұрын

@@MrHeHim you don't need the fan for pla but it does help with bridging and you should be able to enable it just for bridging easy enough.

@rorrybellows3365 4 жыл бұрын

Love your channel, such a great reference for research and knowledge

@dbaznr 4 жыл бұрын

There are different results changing the infill density. 10%, 50% and 99% behave differently, especially regarding the type of deformation (uniform in X and Y). Z shrinks less, meaning that there is not a big layer fusion. Also, the deformation depends of the infill pattern used. A ventilated oven usually distributes the temperature more evenly. I'm not sure of the benefits of the slowdown temperature because in any case the skin remane cooler than the interior, and the process of loosing energy depends mostly from the geometry of the part, creating deformations. I'm testing the results using the microwave oven...

@theheadone 4 жыл бұрын

I love your videos! you are truly an asset to the 3D-printing community :) I look forward to all of your future videos!

@theKashConnoisseur 4 жыл бұрын

Nylon will appear to be quite stiff and strong fresh from the oven. But take care, as the print adsorbs moisture from the air, the mechanical properties of the nylon change and it becomes more flexible and less stiff. Some people take the initial stiffness to indicate that Nylon can be stiffened from heat treatment, but they fail to acknowledge the temporary nature of it. Annealing Polymaker's PC-Max blend will be fine, but to anneal real, pure PC prints you need a precision temperature controlled oven. We're talking being able to control temps to a 10c rise over the course of an hour sort of thing. Without such control, you might as well not bother annealing pure PC as it won't be beneficial. Of course, it's better to just print PC in a 120c chamber to begin with so there's not any printed in stresses resulting from the part cooling too fast, but most people don't have setups capable of that.

@johndavid4825 4 жыл бұрын

I just ran into these videos. I love them! I thought I would comment on two things. The first is that I have never seen a DIY notched impact machine before. Brilliant. The second is that you could also print a little finger (similar to the max travel on the imact tester) for your finger torque wrench to record the max there as well.

@kleingarrett55 4 жыл бұрын

Great job Steffan! I have a presentation coming up that I'll be sure to plug your channel during :) looking forward to the next video. Definitely doesn't seem worth it with this material considering the warping the time would be better spent optimising design and print settings. I'll definitely continue to push people towards PETG for heat resistance and durability.

@Hernerokka84 4 жыл бұрын

Weird thing I've seen in doing some annealing tests of my own is that two different brands of PLA shrunk and expanded in different directions. Both test parts were printed in same orientation and annealed in same orientation as well. Still one of them expanded in X direction and shrunk in Z and the other one did the usual shrinking in X and Y and expanded in Z.

@jack0cat 4 жыл бұрын

I’m here because the 3D printing nerd suggested that I check your channel out. I’m glad I did and I subscribed.

@avejst 4 жыл бұрын

Great video as always Thanks for sharing👍😀

@oadka Жыл бұрын

Such systematic testing, thank you so much.

@mindsofgreatness 4 жыл бұрын

First learning about Volcano PLA from Form Futura, going to test out their 50 gram to see how it goes before picking up a large spool. Thanks for sharing your research!

@Sleepery22 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for this video! I followed your instructions and tried annealing mechanical parts printed with eSun PLA+ (in my kitchen oven). I got some minor deformations, but I was able to Dremel them and use the part. They definitely feel stronger, but I can't measure how much really..

@ww07ff 4 жыл бұрын

Real engineering channel. Love it.

@donamills 4 жыл бұрын

So damn informative. You save me and the community soooo much time. Thank you.

@Thomllama 4 жыл бұрын

Awesome as always,!!! I do hope you try HT PLA’ s generally made from a raw 850 or 870 resin. These PLA’s are higher temp and generally take to annealing much better than the standard cheaper PLA resins most filaments are made from!

@pomprocks 4 жыл бұрын

I'd love to see tests with 870.

@GregAtlas 4 жыл бұрын

I hope you cover HTPLA and PLA+ That was a great idea to use sand. I've used hot sand to bend PVC pipes without kinking for costume projects. It makes the heating more even and also prevents the PVC pipe from collapsing in on itself. I hope you continue to experiment using the sand technique and try the larger container to be thorough to see if that helps any. You also might want to try heating the sand first before pouring it in to see what affect it might have.

@Gambiarte 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the sensational content!

@neur303 4 жыл бұрын

Great info, thank you! I really appreciate the effort! Do you know if this also applies to printing with higher ambient temperature e.g. using a shroud? :)

@eldiagrama 4 жыл бұрын

Top quality videos as always

@Polymate3D 4 жыл бұрын

Nice testing as always. I have wondered about a infra red heat lamp is use during printing as I did it before to reduce warping but it keeping the previous layer warmer may help with layer adhesion

@stang1966gt 4 жыл бұрын

Hi Stefan! Great channel with tons of educational material. I am interested to increase part strength. Was wondering if epoxy coating will help. Or even wrap monofilament around the parts and then epoxy coat. Thank you

@ChiralSymmetry 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the video! Very interesting. Two things you may want to investigate in the future for annealing of PLA: (1) Some manufacturers make PLA that is specifically designed to be annealed. My understanding is that these types of PLA have solid particles included in the PLA that are supposed to help "seed" the microcrystalization process. (2) I think there was speculation that PLA with pigments (colored solid particles) would more easily crystalize than PLA with dyes (colored chemical dissolved in the PLA as a solution; no particles). If you have time, I would be really interested to see you perform similar tests on, say, white-opaque PLA (which very likely has pigments like titanium dioxide, zinc oxide, etc.) as well as PLA that is specifically designed to be annealed. I have no idea if there would be any difference in results. There are numerous academic papers on annealing PLA and PLA crystallinity. It would be interesting to see if your results are roughly the same as theirs. They studied things like annealing times and temperatures (crystallinity vs time at a given temperature), mechanical properties, and microstructure.

@jonboyte 4 жыл бұрын

There are some factors in the heating and cooling. Since heat rises, the top of the part is the last part to cool, thus why you see different expansions in z versus x and y. If you could somehow put the parts in a 3D rotisserie as they go through the process, you should see a more uniform change in size. In large turbines, this is why they have to keep turning during cool down or they bow “upwards”.

@prkl3 4 жыл бұрын

Nice Work Dude! I have annieled some pla mic adapters immersed in 75c water for 30 mins. Old coffee maker as a bath, since it has 75c thermostat. Parts in ziplock bag with an aluminium plate ensuring parts flatness and old Shure mic body ensuring tight fit after annealing. Works fine and heat transfer is uniform if you get all the air out of the bag. You really should test this. Alltho better way might be a Sous Vide cooker and real vacuum bags. Keep up the good work!

@angusr7805 4 жыл бұрын

I love your scientific method of testing.

@buckmanstijn 4 жыл бұрын

i work in a plastic lab and i do this all day ^^ :-D you test good !

@ZerqTM 4 жыл бұрын

this is useful... reducing translucency helps a lot... i am making some key chains and i really did not like the translucency... this could make it look a loot better! awesome and very helpful!

@EmilyTestAccount 4 жыл бұрын

but what about the one that melted? can't have layer separation if there aren't any layers :v

@nekononiaow 4 жыл бұрын

This is an absolutely valid remark. Although the part looks different it may actually be much more functional strength wise. He should definitely test it.

@calvindibartolo2686 4 жыл бұрын

@@nekononiaow generally though being a puddle loses a crystalline structure. I imagine it'd actually be significantly weaker.......... at least weaker than the flat-printed hooks. Not sure about the upright ones though. But, I could be wrong too: after all that part is solid now

@stevesclocks 4 жыл бұрын

The best way to make a part would be with an injection mold. No need for a 3d printer any more.

@monad_tcp 4 жыл бұрын

@@stevesclocks if it only it was cheaper making the mold

@court2379 4 жыл бұрын

I want to see it tested too.

@mbalunovic Жыл бұрын

Have not used this before but will definitely do that for parts that are likely to experience raised temps dooring life.

@georgekrapohl2406 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks This was very insightfull and learned alot. I was wondering if this annealing process if it followed, a reflow soldering temerature curve where you heat the parts to a specific temp for a certain time that every object can reach that temp then ramp up the temp for short period then decrease the temp slowly. Probally achieve the same results..... Or will it?

@RyanRapini 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the video!

@aaronbrown7750 4 жыл бұрын

I believe the pla+ and some HTPLA's are better equipped to do this with, as they are supposed to warp less during the annealing process, like how you found that the volcano one warped less then the crystal blue. Makergeeks used to sell a "raptor" line pla that was like $15 extra that was supposedly made to be annealed. I have several spools of it, but have only tried it once with putting a part in some boiling water for 10 or so min. It was a dragon print and the wings kinda ended up sagging down a bit, but after it went soft, it hardened back up in like 4-5 seconds and you couldn't get it to be pliable anymore. I ended up snapping the wings off trying to get them back lined up..

@christianmarkussen6412 4 жыл бұрын

Great video as always 👍. I have tried annealing high temperature PLA and found it to have a positive effect. I don't have your test setup but did a simple bend test by hand and found the annealed piece it to be a bit stronger. I did get some warping when I annealed at 100C but none when I used 85C. I had the best results (no warping) when I let the part warm up slowly with the oven rather than putting it into the oven after it was warm. I also let it cool down slowly after an hour of annealing. Supposedly the HTPLA also gets better impact resistens after annealing. It would be great if you could test HTPLA to get some real data on it. Keep up the good work 😀

@japonicaren 4 жыл бұрын

What brand of HTPLA?

@christianmarkussen6412 4 жыл бұрын

@@japonicaren I have used the Proto Pasta HTPLA V2 and the HTPLA Carbon fiber. I really like the CF for functional parts that need to be strong and it prints great.

@paulb8264 4 жыл бұрын

You tried sand but I was wondering how well something that sets like plaster might work? You cast a part, heat treat then wash away the plaster. It sounds like a ton of work but might be worth investigating

@enjibkk6850 4 жыл бұрын

I was wondering also with plaster... when it has hardened, and assuming that the part is completely filled, could the part then me heated to much higher temperature to completely melt the PLA and sort of have a 'cast PLA' part ?

@ryanlangan1060 4 жыл бұрын

Using plaster is an interesting idea, but if you're going to all that trouble, then just do an investment casting. Once the part is covered in plaster, you can bake the filament out and cast metal inside. Takes some planning to cast properly, but you get much better parts.

@chomp7927 4 жыл бұрын

The amount of effort required to make sure the plaster gets into every single nook and cranny, and then taken out when done, would not be worth the 10% gains while maintaining the same dimensions, if it even works. Instead of going to all that hassle, just use something 10% better from the start, it'll be cheaper in the long run too

@a930913 4 жыл бұрын

Encasing in plaster and reflowing makes the part way stronger. Print 100%, mix plaster and immerse part, wait until set, then bake at 200C until temperature will be even throughout. Let cool and wash away plaster. Keeps a lot of detail, though any air trapped will create a void at the top. I suspect with further research I could print an integral reservoir to fill the void and let the air out of the piece. Fridge clips I was printing kept breaking along lamination lines, but reflowing them removes all lamination.

@leofortey7561 4 жыл бұрын

@@a930913 you might as well build a rotational mold machine and use plastic pellets. This is FDM. You get what you get.

@FrancoisMathieu 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you for putting the time and effort in making those great videos. I really appreciate your scientific approach to 3d printing.

@NightMods 4 жыл бұрын

Good video. I was going to try this at one point. I now know better.

@MacroAggressor 4 жыл бұрын

Have you considered using an oil bath (maybe with a sous vide) to maintain more consistent annealing temps? Might help with warping. Looking forward to the stress relief video.

@ScottyMakesStuff 4 жыл бұрын

Hi Stefan, thanks for taking the time to educate the larger 3D printing community. It's been bugging me a bit but I think the phenomenon of the annealed prints becoming less amorphous may not be correct. I suspect it's a bit more complex than that. I can't say I know the real answer but a typical thermoplastic should become more amorphous when heated above it's glass transition as the stresses that the printing has applied are relieved somewhat so that the polymers individual strings can go back to a relaxed state which is why we see some XY decreases and Z increases in size. Could the print lines be lensing the light? Maybe there's a polymer chemist here that can put me in my place :)

@abizarlakdawalla4519 Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the great videos. Have you tried 'tempering' in hot water? The maker lab at a local college places PLA prints in water and then in a microwave till the water is hot but not boiling (guessing about 70-80C) then slow cool to room temperature followed by a second cycle where the water is brought to a boil and slow cooled. I have tried this at home on small parts and it does not seem to do much damage but not sure if the parts are stronger or more heat resistant.

@BOSS-bk2jx 4 жыл бұрын

Interesting investigation as usual... I really adore the way you apply scientific method to your investigations. Keep up the good work. I wonder if the layer adhesion quality is related to the hot plastic being reactive to humidity or oxygen in the air, or perhaps some air is trapped at the interface between layers reducing the effective connection between them. Is it possible for you to make an investigation about that idea? [3D printing in a vacuum, different pressure levels or in an inert atmosphere]

@SimonFiliatrault 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for this! I always wondered if it would help the layer adhesion, a bit of a bummer it's not. I think we would need a printer that would be able to rotate a piece while printing and have a layers added horizontally on top of vertical ones... But I cannot think how a machine like this could work! I did many parts in two sub parts, one printed horizontally and the other vertically and glued together after to augment the resistance, works well, but more work in design and built

@leunamtzam 4 жыл бұрын

Interesting Video, I thought it would made some advantage for layer adhesion.

@scotticus66 4 жыл бұрын

hey i have been using methylene chloride to make pneumatic fittings take pressures of 150 psi and other water tight parts and fuzzes layers well.

@EJTechandDIY 4 жыл бұрын

So much great content

@charliesoto3635 3 жыл бұрын

This is some great information that you have provided and seeing is believing. Have you looked at the possibility of 100% fill then used that print in sand at lower temp with longer bake time?

@garagemonkeysan 4 жыл бұрын

Great information. Mahalo for sharing! : )

@ronholder5844 4 жыл бұрын

I tried to anneal a Hero Me duct by using an electric water heating pot, which has buttons to reach and maintain several different temperatures. (I love it for making tea.) My parts were put inside a plastic ziplock bag. The water was preheated before I put the parts in. I had read an article on what temperature was best to use and used that. After half an hour in the water, they were too warped to use. At that point I decided I had to get new PTFE tubing and some PETG filament if I wanted a duct that would hold up to long term use. I am assuming that to maintain the temperature, while heating, some of the water got too hot. Haven't watched the video yet but may learn how to do it in a way that will keep PLA from deforming.

@Serachja 4 жыл бұрын

Great video, thanks for the upload. In case you try it with ABS, I just finished a test myself. I think Thomas did something similar but he chose around 105°C for the annealing temperature for both PLA&ABS. I just did the annealing of ABS at 140°C. The reason being, that PLA has a glas transition temp (TG) of 60-65°C and ABS at 105°C. I've seen that the annealing of PLA works at around 100°C, so 40°C above its TG. Therefore ABS has to be annealed at around 145°C. My Part shrank but the geometry remained ok. All the best with your experiments! Edit: sorry it wasn't Thomas video with the ABS, it was your video as well. It's name was temperature resistance after annealing and you inserted the parts at 110°C (PLA,PETG,ABS). I would suggest setting the temperature 40°C above the TG of the material being annealed.

@rmatveev 2 жыл бұрын

Such a high annealing temperature is not possible for parts should be accurate in dimensions. ABS is a material of interest for me as well.

@Royvan7 4 жыл бұрын

would it be possible to remelt the plastic and retain the parts shape. you could encase the part in plaster or something else that will retain its shape at high temps for support.

@Sharpapexco 4 жыл бұрын

Would love to see part 2.

@kenwoo3601 4 жыл бұрын

How did you decide what time length and temperatures to use? I have tried the sous vide method and surprisingly didn't see any warping. I didn't do it in a controlled manner like you though so I cant begin to ponder why. It was just a quick test to see if the method would work. I put the part in a zip lock bag filled with water and put that into a slow cooker like thing (timer and temperature control but no pressure). Heated at 80 C for 1hour and turned it off and let it cool overnight. I also didnt have specialised tools and didnt actually test the effects on strength as the only test I could do would have been temperature resistance but couldnt do it in a reproducible way.

@gsportgeorge 4 жыл бұрын

Great video. Just curious if you had accounted for the moisture content of the pla? The annealing process probably also dried out the filament very thoroughly which might be a factor. Very interested to see your results with nylon. My favourite filament is 3dxtech CF filled nylon which produces really strong parts including layer adhesion but can't do a layer thickness of less than 0.25mm.

@LWJCarroll 4 жыл бұрын

Hi, I am used to annealing glass when making glass lampwork beads and the set annealing temp to use for different manufacturers glass. The idea being not to lock in stresses as the glass shrinks during cooling...but here for PLA you dont specify a manufacturers set annealing temp? For PLA it seems its not shrinkage but instead the molecular structure being changed by reheating up to a temp, held, then cooled? With glass you have to put the beads still on the mandrel straight into the kiln and then anneal them, as they are still way above the annealing temp. A bit puzzled here... thanks Laurie

@nict2618 4 жыл бұрын

I recently tried drilling small holes on opposite side of my print. With about 20% infill I then used a syringe to push epoxy and silicone glue through two different parts. I used a transparent filament with about 2 or 3 walls. It drastically changed the feel of the parts. You should try testing some hooks that have epoxy or silicone in them. My only problem is that the epoxy got pretty hot.

@Makak0007 4 жыл бұрын

Use epoxy which cures slowly (as opposed to regular epoxy). This way you generate the same amount of heat during chemical reaction but you have much longer time to dissipate it, therefore the max. temerature stays way lover.

@Makak0007 4 жыл бұрын

lover = lower

@angry_zergling Жыл бұрын

Oh that's so awesome I just got into 3D printing, had some parts that needed extra rigidity, and was thinking of the exact same thing! cylindrical voids running the length of the print injected with something, or geometry resembling lightening cuts in the appropriate orientation filled with JB weld.

@thaumaturgicresearchcounci4180 3 жыл бұрын

You should have a go at hot isostatic pressing of some parts. It's commonly done for high integrity castings, powder metallurgy, metal injection moulded parts. Would be interesting to see how it might work.

@barndweller4573 Жыл бұрын

This sounds something like what we do when casting bullets our of lead alloys. Yes our temps are much higher (720 degrees F). We drop the hot bullet as fast as we can out of the mold as soon as it changes from a liquid to a solid into a bucket of water, the colder the better (Does not stay cold very long). We do this to increase hardness. It has something to do with crystals in the alloy. I wonder if cooling fast is possible and if it would make a difference? Thank you for your videos, I have ordered a 3D printer and have been watching your videos. I want to use my 3D Printer to make Antenna Parts for Amateur Radio.

@madscientists9059 4 жыл бұрын

I’m printing the edge 540 73” from 3dlabprint and they include 2 parts for fuselage part 1 and 3 so I followed instructions and my fuselage part 1 deformed completely in sticking with the not annealed piece even if I’m using it to fix an electric engine in there :) what would you recommend?

@fabio-franco Жыл бұрын

Don't know if anything changed from then to now or if it is just the PLA brand I used. But my eSun black PLA+ became indestructible after doing rudimentary annealing. Really, I'd use it as bullet proof vest. The flat playing card like surface object I printed has around 2mm of thickness. My precious PETG print of the same part would make crackling sounds just by applying slight pressure on the sides. Unannealed would just break very easily. Not after taking going to the sauna. First thing I noticed is that the layers seem to have fused and surfaces looked like solid paint. And no matter how hard I tried to bend it. It just refused to make any level of deformation. Fel like bending metal .

@DJlegionuk 4 жыл бұрын

I just brought some Proto Pasta HTPLA V3 that is supposed to be designed for this very thing. so might be worth a test. I plan to try this using my reflow oven.

@skaltura 4 жыл бұрын

I use quick passes with blow torch on parts with mechanical strength requirements. This gets the surface layers annealed, and sometimes even melting without distorting the whole part.

@elijahsimmons2900 4 жыл бұрын

Interesting! I would love to see other materials- ABS, PETG, PC. I do a lot of structural 3d printing for my robotics team in ABS, and anisotropic layers are always a serious problem for us. I love this channel for its approach to materials testing, and am always excited to see what new scientifically rigorous information you have for us.

@BobSmith42 4 жыл бұрын

He did comment that PETG and ABS don't have the same amorphous to crystalline change, so it'll be interesting to see what changes they go through if he follows up using those plastics.

@antalz 4 жыл бұрын

I tried annealing myself, but the shrinkage causes buckling on walls, which is visibly clearly on the fan shroud. Annealing is only worth it for functional parts, but functional parts need to be accurate, so you can't really do anything with this. The only thing I still want to try is bolting down a part to a metal plate, and then annealing a part while it's constrained. I tried some filaments that were specifically advertised for annealing, 3dktop Berlin, volcano PLA and something else, but they still warp. The process is interesting from a scientific standpoint, but engineering wise, for now, seems entirely useless.

@tstevens06ts 4 жыл бұрын

I have used PLA in my car. Initially PLA was softened by sun heated ambient the first time it was exposed. The next day and other days that were hotter it did not soften again.

@AquariumsToGo 4 жыл бұрын

I live in Queensland...so I had something more akin to a blob after the first day.

@TheNorthDevonOrganist 6 ай бұрын

the expansion in one direction (generally) is caused by the oven heating up all the trapped air bubbles in the material and stretching it.

@itaco8066 4 жыл бұрын

Great Video! Thank you

@rogerneilhogg 4 жыл бұрын

Hi. I swear by the. Using 3D fillies pla plus. 100 c for 30 min. Raises its temperature stability to over 100c. For parts that may get hot in a car it’s a must. Shrinkage is only 1.5 pct xy and expands 1 pct z. I don’t use a cool down step. Whip out of oven while hot and then clamp them down on a cold metal surface. Also have some wooden jigs to hold the critical dimensions in place during ht. All this adds up to quality stable parts that look great and take the very hot Australian sun. Strength is also much better. I have tried this on several pla brands and not all respond the same. Stephan. You should do these tests on ht pla or pla plus. People will be put off based on this video. It’s never a blobby disaster for me with ht. Just get the right material.

@herseem 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for this video, you've persuaded me not to bother annealing PLA, which has inevitably saved me a load of time and money

@vincentbarkley9121 2 жыл бұрын

Great video. Thank you.

@TangoDeltaDelta 4 жыл бұрын

I have used a heat gun to remove "wisps" that sometimes appear, and if used VERY carefully, it can slightly smooth layer lines without warping the shape. It isn't consistent, however, and easy to mess up.

@trischas.2809 4 жыл бұрын

I found that brushing over a surface with a soldering iron can increase the stability some, but that is pretty much a very strategic re-melting of the outer shell.

@DasDunkleEtwas 4 жыл бұрын

Have you ever tried the pla+ filament? I haven't found the time to bake it but theyb say it's a lot stiffer and resistant than abs after the heating process

@CyanOgilvie 4 жыл бұрын

I've annealed PLA (plain and modified) by dunking the prints into boiling water for 5 minutes, then quenching with cold water (not my original idea, saw it in a youtube vid somewhere). I mainly do it for the improved temperature resistance, but that is almost always with functional, mechanical parts that need to fit with other parts, so warping is not acceptable. I've found the boiling water method produces almost no warping at all, other than the predictable shrinkage in x and y, and growth in z. The shrinkage is predictable enough to compensate for in the slicer. I've printed a fan duct that works fine on the MK2S, a few mm from the heaterblock, printing high temperature materials, so the heat resistance is good with this approach. It's also way quicker and easier than annealing in an oven. My process is to put the part into a mug or similar and pour boiling water over it, tumble the part to get rid of trapped air bubbles, then pour in cold water after 5 minutes. Once the part dries it's ready to use.

@macmaniacal 4 жыл бұрын

Have you made a video about epoxy filling parts? Obviously it'll be much stronger, but how much would be cool to see.

@gusmartin6053 4 жыл бұрын

I would really like to see you investigate PLA's tendency to crack as it comes off the spool. This especially happens with 3mm diameter filament and seems to happen after the PLA has aged for several months. In my experience it seems to form small cracks on the inside of the coil shape that comes from being wound onto a spool. Is this simply due to the stress of a coil being straightened? Or is there more going on here? Thanks for all the great videos!

4 жыл бұрын

If you're worried about the bend modulus changing, could you use your 3d scanner to scan the deformed test piece then 3d print the control with that mesh and compare those? Also agree with what others have mentioned about trapped air potentially causing further layer adhesion. The fact that your XY shrinks and Z pillows in that cube corner calibration piece shows that air is trapped (albiet the infill space is more to blame there). Could you do zero perimeter pieces or cut/sand external faces to expose solid linear infills and test if giving air between extrusions a place to escape can improve your results further?

@twiddler71 4 жыл бұрын

What about testing PLA plus or PLA Pro? Also, would annealing improve thermal resistance enough to match that of ABS or PETG?

@RentableSocks 4 жыл бұрын

please try this with Esun PLA+ , in my experience it performs better than standard PLA when annealing.

@iandawkins2182 4 жыл бұрын

I use eSun filament as it is a great affordable filament. Have also had some great results with Hobby King own brand filament too.

@boggisthecat 4 жыл бұрын

Ian Dawkins The more expensive HobbyKing stuff is made by MCPP: www.mcpp-3dp.com The engineering PLA - ‘PLA-X3’ - is very good but a little pricey. It has very good annealing behaviour.

@iandawkins2182 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks that is useful information.

@chriss2295 4 жыл бұрын

I wonder if annealed pla filament (before printing) helps improve heat tolerance versus post print annealing? Or is it just too brittle?

@woopdeedoodaa 4 жыл бұрын

Please try annealing parts immersed in common household oils, castor, canola/rapeseed or vegetable oils in particular. Its would be interesting to see the different effects that each oil had (if any) due to chemical compatibility and the duration and temperature of the annealing process. If you use the gyroid infill pattern and had drain/fill holes in the part where it wouldn't affect strength then, as its a "porous", the oil could evenly contact all of the material evenly, reducing warping, and as it would allow the parts to be brought up to temperature evenly it should more throughly and evenly annealing the part. I'd suggest a process of annealing at 45c, 60c and ~75c for 20, 40 and 60 minutes. That would be a 3x3 matrix of results. Ideally one such test for each oil type. I think this is the most complete process that could be done in the home environment.

@kerricaine 4 жыл бұрын

one technique i've been trying is to make a silicone mold of a printed part, and take ground up PLA remnants (supports, rafts, failed prints) melt them till it's almost clay-like in it's consistency, and then press it into the mold. you essentially get a 100% solid model. that being said, i've never tried anything to measure tensile strength of these PLA casts, but i would love to see how that would compare if you were to try it!

@AndreasBrekken 4 жыл бұрын

I mainly anneal PLA for heat resistance. It makes a huge difference! Could you try to test the strength of HD PLA from fiberlogy? It is meant to be annealed.