which faction were you playing as?

@@Flicky669 the game that corrupted I was the border princes as infantry, this one the beastmen infantry - I had an evening of all infantry without realising, i was the infantry in the lizardmen one the other day

Yeah, but it will be less in quality and $14.99. People that still give CA money is mind boggling to me with their anti-consumer practices. They even added the blood dlc again. They just love spitting in your face as you come back for more. Reminds me of the relationship between Blizzard-Activision and their playerbase. Almost like stockholm syndrome. Sad!

@@JagerFrostTroll the blood dlc is once again just a one time purchase

@@JagerFrostTroll I'm all for holding CA accountable to good business practices, but your whole statement is ridiculous. If you don't want it, don't buy it. If they release DoW DLC that is worse than Cataph's mod, then remove the mod, then I'll complain. As it is, comparing them to Activision Blizzard is just insulting and hyperbolic.

Considering that they can't even put a roadmap that vaguely states what they plan to do this year apart from the 3 dlc I doubt they have thought very far beyond the chaos dwarfs right now. One race pack the chaos dwarfs and two lord packs. And I swear if I see another skaven dlc.

​@Haakonson you just sound bitter. The DLC for this series has, all been worth it, on sale. Also, the blood DLC is just a one time thing. If you bought it over HALF...HALF A DECADE ago, it applies to game 2 and 3. Jesus effing christ, this conversation again?

Yeah this battle was over before it even began.

or the team that won just played a bit better in both games? The game before this one was a 4v4 Dogs of War/Empire/Bretonnia vs. Monogods (replay got corrupted unfortunately), and the Order factions won despite having almost no single entities, and the Chaos armies having a bunch of big scary monsters. I think it's maybe a bit early for takes like this. I dont even have a good grasp on faction strength or balance in this mod yet after playing a chunk of games, kind of hard to simplify it down to "take more monsters and win" after watching two battles that aren't even how battles are normally played. I think we can all agree SEMs can be very good though

@priest it definitely wasn't lol, this is too simplistic and reductive analysis that takes away agency from the players and what they did to win or lose. We played the exact same teams in Order vs. Monogods right before this, and Order won with almost no single entities or monsters, and monogods (which feel very strong in the mod, as in vanilla), having a bunch of big scary monsters. And Order won just with a bunch of infantry and cav. Simply put, its extremely difficult to have a good grasp on balance for a mod after watching 2 battles, especially when theyre this complex and large in scale

@@milkandcookiesTW i hope i will be shown wrong then in a battle that you can show us (i love it when mortal humans win against chaos). I was just hoping for something different then the usual late game monster mash. But don't get me wrong i enjoy many of Duke's design decisions for his overhaul, like the armor rework, ranged troops and especially the way lords fight now.

It seemed to me like the big deciding factor in this one was the synergy between the factions on the destruction side. The Skaven and Beastmen had infantry that the order factions just couldn't grind through quick enough, and the Vampire Coast and Skaven had units that ran really good interference on the Dwarfen ranged elements. If the order group had stuck closer together and better supported the Dwarfs, I think this battle would have turned out differently, but as it stood there were just too many things that the Dwarfs couldn't deal with because they were constantly getting railed by wolf rats and Vampire Coast artillery. Everyone on the destruction side seemed to know exactly what their purpose was and stuck to it while the order faction didn't effectively protect the elements of their army that could deal with the most dangerous parts of the enemy.

Love to hear it as a member of the community as well.

a lot of the monsters for Moulder and the Ghorgon have regen, so naturally in a spread out battlefield with ebbs and flows they will have time to heal HP back. Gotta work with your team to take them off the map, which can be more difficult than in 1v1s

I use Ultimate lighting overhaul sometimes. it doesn't always make the map look better though, so in the cases that it doesn't I skip it. but yeah the shiny bloom on armor and stuff is sometimes a bit much in wh3

Both

They're rune-golems not infantry

Really tough ask of our opponents in this one - southern realms troops in the submod are skilled and I would say as powerful as other factions overall - but they're one of the hardest to play due to mercenaries and militias both being generally quite low morale so when things go wrong, it's easy for them to keep going wrong

i have certainly played very laggy big team battles. but no generally when you set these up you get people with good computers and connections, and it can run pretty smooth and be fun to play

anything specific that stood out to you?

@@milkandcookiesTW Hey Indie! From my limited experience with the mod and the videos on the channel, the two biggest things are how absolutely vulnerable non-monster lords are to being targeted into irrelevance, and how the changes to health make monstruous infantry even stronger than before. The other thing that I freely admit might just be my bias is that battles seem to be decided far faster. Usually in Subcommanders I get gripped into seeing who would win and who would lose, sometimes until the last second, but in this one it seemed like it was a foregone conclusion. Maybe that's just a consequence of Southern Realms not playing well with Damned Nations, I don't know. Regardless of all of that, it was still an enjoyable match, with amazing commentary as usual! Thanks for taking the time to listen and reply (even to a schmuck like me who might be wrong at everything he's saying).

Happy for people to have their own takes, but it's worth mentioning that battles are actually on average quite a bit slower, this was just a fast one. I'd also mention that med2 being more moddable isn't really true despite the reputation. Having modded both, and half the games in between, wh3 is up there as one of the most moddable, the contender being 3K which has much more moddable ai but also has more compatability issues

@@theduketw Thanks for dispersing the myth of Medieval II being more moddable. As I don't have experience with mods, I was speaking from my own experience, which I understand is limited being merely a consumer. As far as your battles being a bit slower, that wasn't really my experience with your mod. Maybe I didn't give it enough of a chance, but me and my friends stopped playing it because we thought the battle "win-cons" were far faster to achieve than with vanilla or other overhauls. While it's true the battle itself is slower, I kept feeling it was over midway through, and was consistently correct on that regard. Maybe things changed since I've last tried it, however.

​@@mariojorge68 a lot of the win cons can be overcome with things like fatigue control. If you can tire out something powerful with something cheap, something else cheap can often punch well above its weight and cause proper issues for the typical win con units