And Tom did that and took her advice

Karolina was a serious person, Hugo wasn't.

​@@JadeRoberts-yt6cjKarolina is basically alternate version of Shiv: Professional, Elegant, and Intelligence. She's even in the same level of the Old Guards despite still young.

I love her voice

❤

True

Kendall totally blew it the moment he put his feet on the desk. The siblings couldn't stand the gloating smug look of Kendall's face as he sits on the throne

It is strange how people talk about that scene as definitive. When they all were in Los Angeles, Shiv was speaking on the phone with Matsson, Tom was also in the office with his feet up on the desk in the same manner as Kendall. I guess because Shiv did not consider Tom in the running as CEO, his feet on the desk did not matter or because they just had one of their reconciliation sessions?

Sorry If I'm kind of late but according to your theory what's your conclusion?

My conclusion is that Shiv does things by impulse and perception. Her perception is that she has always been slighted by the men of her family. In this case, she got two more slights: Matsson, who decided not to name her as his US CEO, a job that she was never offered in the first place, but she had in her head that she was going to get; then by Tom, who was offered the job by Matsson and took it even though he knew Shiv wanted. My conclusion is that Shiv voted the way that she and Tom had planned season 1: he would "wear the big trousers", Shiv would have his child and do whatever career move she wanted. Karolina's conversation, to me, just reinforced whatever Tom told Shiv in text messages on her ride to the board mtg. Her brothers were not going to include her in the business either, especially Kendall, who Tom called a loser to his face. Yes, she voted YES out of spite, but it is years of pent up resentments and having Kendall throwing 'I'm the heir apparent' in her face and not being considered for a position in the company. In Shiv's mind, her brothers, except for Connor, were always considered by their father, Logan. @samanthacristinaburgosmera4160

So basically your theory is that Shiv had already changed her mind before the board meeting and had a back channel to Team Mattson via Tom? It's an interesting idea. At first glance it seems implausible, as Shiv was so furious with both Lukas and Tom. I always saw her last-minute volte-face not as the result of calculation but as a completely impulsive emotional decision, where her jealousy of her brother momentarily overcame her vindictiveness at Mattson. After all, the whole point of the "I'm the eldest boy!" argument scene is that the siblings regress to being squabbling little children again; their arrested development is what dooms them to never take over their father's company. (And just as an aside, I love the look on Sarah Snook's face after she says "I just don't think you'd be good at it!" She looks exactly like a five-year-old girl who got revenge on her brother and is gloating over it.) But on the other hand, I always thought it was a little weird that we never see any conversation between Tom and Shiv over how the vote went. I mean... it looked like the kids were going to win. Mattson was panicking. They *would* have won except for Shiv backing out. And surely Shiv's vote must be known. I don't know whether board meetings are supposed to be confidential or not, but we know nothing is confidential among this cast of characters. And yet Tom doesn't express surprise at all. He just calmly accepts that his wife, who was roundly cursing him out perhaps a few hours ago, has just delivered him the job of his dreams. So that makes me think there might be something to your idea. But I do have to say, I think you're reading too much into Karolina's final moments in the show. I see her encounter with Shiv in the hall as just one more amusing incidence of the pitching and politicking that the show is full of. I mean, we already saw Hugo try to get Karolina fired at the beginning of Season 3. This is just her comeback. As for Tom asking about her - remember the kill list? The only members of Logan's top team who weren't on it were Gerri and Karolina (and Tom himself, of course). And not very coincidentally, those are the very two that Tom talks about keeping. It's not Tom's decision. It's Mattson's, and it was made back in episode 5. And couldn't Shiv have just asked which car was Tom's?

@@donaldgoodwin4759 You make some good points, too. Shiv's actions are based on perceptions and impulse. Tom did the math, just like Shiv. He only told her, I think, because he did not want her to find out that it was him after the fact, since Greg told her that she was not going to be the US CEO. Tom knows Shiv well (as he told her) and Kendall pretty well. He called Kendall a loser at their diner meeting in Season 3. The men in Shiv's life use her, to wit: she was Tom's inside channel to the Waystar|RoyCo empire; she Matsson's back channel to the Waystar; she was going to be Kendall or Roman's vehicle to the empire; she was Logan's wildcard in deciding whether her brothers should inherit the CEO position. Logan had no intentions on making her a CEO, but just by naming her, threw her brothers and Tom's ambitions into turmoil. Tom may have texted her while she was in her vehicle. It was too late to change any board member's vote, except maybe her own. On her way to Barbados, she asked Tom for their marriage. He replied he did not know. In the past, he would have never given her that answer. In other words, the baby was not enough to hold him, no matter how much he wanted it. Tom planted the seed. I think that he had Karolina look out for her and reinforce some points and he invited Gerri (or Matsson did). Kendall's antics with Stewy before the meeting reinforced any insecurity that Shiv may have had about Kendall and her place in company. When Shiv entered that board meeting, she going to vote YES and Roman helped her with his very hesitant NO vote against the deal. Shiv needed to give her reasons, logical or not, on why she changed her mind. If she had voted YES in board room, there would have been a brawl right there. If she was going to use the auto accident, the board room was not the place to bring it up. Also IMO, only Shiv, maybe Logan, is allowed any criticisms or actions against Tom, no one else. If she could not become US CEO, then, in her mind, the next best person ---- Tom. My final two points are: I was rooting for Shiv, but she could not run that company without Tom or Gerri. Point two: if it were Rava and Kendall in same position, Kendall would expect Rava's support. By the way, the Kill List was drawn up by Matsson with Shiv's help. Gerri, her Godmother; Karolina; and as I said, nobody touches Tom.

@@donaldgoodwin4759 I agree with everything that both of you said just one tiny thing I think Shiv already new Tom’s car because she was already there and when Tom came no one told him that his wife was in the car waiting for him or like no one was wondering why she was in the car like they were expecting that, I mean it’s not something that big I was curious when I saw that

I mean that's the beauty of it, it's open to interpretation but the writer has said he think it's exactly because of that reason that shiv just couldn't see ken win. If it couldn't be her then it could be none of the sibs, that rivalry their dad instilled in them is just too deeply rooted

A lot of small red flags that Shiv can better translate knowing Kendal all her life suggested he was going to be a ruthless Logan 2.0. Getting his feet on the table, mumbling something i kind remember when Roman voted for him and also we saw him doing to Roman what Logan did to him in season 1 episode 10. An abusive hug to choke any resistance.

@@olafsomething I know what the writer had said, but I think that Shiv realized that she really did not want Kendall on her car ride to the mtg. She may have been angry that Tom got the nod over her as Matsson's CEO but, after some thought, she changed her mind and the alternative (Tom) did not seem bad. This could explain Shiv's slight smiles and near winks to Karolina (who I think knew something was up) and the cold shoulder that Karolina received from Kendall and Roman.

Shiv never want Kendall to be CEO since First Season

The writers love to keep us guessing but I’ll try to elaborate a little here, I believe Shiv was with Ken until they went into Logan’s office, and then a few things happened: 1 Karolina planting the seed, probably per Tom’s request; 2. Ken sitting in that chair suddenly makes it real; 3. The Kendall Stewy Hugo boys club- how Ken just casually offered Chair position to Stewy with his feet up, how close they are made her realize once again she will be pushed aside just like before 4. Then she went out with Stewy to make the last effort pursuade Sandi on their votes ( which obviously didn’t work), and the next shot of her was before the vote, it suddenly turned quite grim and serious. We don’t what happened between the two shots, it could be Stewy said sth stupid that didn’t sit well with her, could be Tom and Karolina contacted her and made her changed her mind… we’ll never know. 5. Kendall again, being arrogant and smug before the vote, just sealed the deal for her. But deep down Shiv knew she never was really fully on board with the plan. And the vote is her ultimate power strike back to Kendall.

Arrival At Waystar