I would consider the battery based on your review as there is only one issue that is not really a issue for most of Australia. For the other 15% you shouldn’t be relying on the internal functions of the battery (IMO). This function renders the battery unusable until temperatures climb back up. A cheap $50 fix makes the battery still usable for charging and discharging. I live in the other 85% and I protect my batteries again overheating.

It confirmed my opinion. I am very happy to pay more for better quality.

Two fails, the low temp and qr code. The qr code is sus as fk. I'll never buy one, thank you!👍🤠

Have you notice the difference in the weight of some of these batteries? Some are 15.5 kg others are only about 12 something kg ? Kings says it is because of terminal location with leas wiring. Nearly 3 kg of wiring seems a lot to me. Great videos 👍

Still looking. There’s an enormous price variation on this product. Very confusing.

I would love to do a battery performance testing video, not just the differences in the chemistries (that I've already covered) but directly measured performance testing as well.

Thanks mate

I was concerned about the QR codes, Supercentre actually reached out asking about the batch number then went radio silent replying to emails.....

It looked fine, I agree, so I was pretty happy about that.

I would like to pull a current one apart and have a look at any changes.

You're welcome!

You're welcome!

Glad you liked it!

The cells certainly looked new, though some shonky wholesalers have also been caught rewrapping them as well. The low temp cut off is probably only an issue for us southerners, though you definitely want to make sure you're not changing the battery in subzero temps.

@@LockyourHubs4WDing -3 here (CW NSW) winters mornings, so definitely could happen 🧐

Excuse my ignorance, but what is the worst that could happen when charging in those colder climate conditions? I live south of the border as well. 😄

@@colintranter5162 charging LiFePO⁴ cells below 0 degrees C kills the cells permanently.

@LockyourHubs4WDing OK. That's pretty important then! So, other than tearing down a battery, like you did, there is no way of checking all these factors... pretty muck at their mercy. And even if I bought a high-end brand, it might still have these issues?

They're $500 on Amazon, but the shipping is a bit rich. I agree that technically if they were used cells there shouldn't be an issue of the lifespan of the product, though my objection if they are second hand cells is an objection in principle. It's sold as a new product and should contain new cells.

That's one of the main reasons I own a Toyota, it is the dealer network. There's definitely something to be said for a substantial national dealer network when you have an issue that needs to get sorted out.

Great to hear they're working out for you. That's the main thing.

Cheers!

It's great to hear when companies do the right thing by their customers. Unfortunately, we usually only hear when they do wrong and not often enough when they do the right thing!

It's still working fine, let's hope you get the same run out of your 200Ah that I'm getting from the 120Ah.

Glad to help, it's strange they would implement one without the other to me.

Most batteries or chargers don't have a temperature sensor, this a a feature to look for or perhaps buy a battery with built in heater if your above the snowline. There is nothing inherently wrong with the older gell pack batteries except they can't be charged as quickly. I have to say the newer kings battery should be able to accept more current ,I sure many will end up connected to an alternator.

@@LockyourHubs4WDingmany of these battery types have high temp cut off, but dont have low temp cutoff, even the more expensive varieties. I have seen other reviews where low temp cutoff is claimed but failed when tested.

Blue top?

​@LockyourHubs4WDing ​ yep, appears to be identical to yours from the outside, tested to 130.1ah with victron smartshunt at 1c load, for all intents and purposes its the same battery, just with a different setup inside. Theres also about 40mm of unoccupied space either side of the cells and bms, so these batteries could really be a LOT smaller. Batch number on mine is 23925 Oh and by the way, the small round plugs that cover the screws, most of mine came out simply with some packing tape stuck over and then pulled off, blu tack also works, but if you get a really tight one, a tiny drop of superglue and then i stuck my finger to it and lifted right out. Had 3 like that. Makes for a lot neater removal with out butchering the plugs or battery case.

@@lexicase8805 great! So not all bluetops are the same :(

Something that kind of did work out for me though is because theres a decent amount of spare room in the battery case, i put my victron smartshunt inside the battery which neatens up a lot of stuff and protects the shunt as well.

@@lexicase8805 Victron make a great shunt, I've got a couple of them.

Was watching this of theirs, and it does say brand new grade A prismatic cells. then as you say, grouped and balanced. maybe the QR code scenario was an issue with that batch/shipment, or who knows.

I had an inquiry from a Kings employee, sent them the batch number and as of now unfortunately hasn't gotten back to me.

There are some reports that it can be a little hot or miss.

I was thinking how I could make a graph for you in this one mate, sorry I failed! I promise the next will be chock right full of them. :)

Let's hope it's a better video for the viewers!

@Lock your Hubs 4WDing lol it's good for the viewer, comment was for the algorithm and help promote it

They sure are an issue for me as well.

I agree, as you can pick them up for around $500, that's decent for the price. I'll be testing it in a year or so after constant use running the fridge on solar and see how it degrades over time.

There shouldn't be, though you could be limited slightly by the battery with the slightly lower capacity.

You make some valid points, though if they've gone to the trouble of adding a functional temp probe, why wouldn't they program the cold temps as well as the hot ones.

@@LockyourHubs4WDing agree with that but I wouldn’t 100% rely one

I tend to agree with you there, the other thing is that a lot of the mid range DC DC chargers that have a lithium charging profile that say they have Temperature Sensing also do not have a temp cutoff when the temp is to low, its in fact there to increase charge on cold days and reduce charge on hot days lead acid batteries. I am in this pickle right now, having ordered a lithium battery to find the temp probe on the CTEK unit i have does not have a cutoff feature when the temp gets too low, which is a problem for me as my battery is in the back of my ute (even if it is under a canopy). Having said that it might be -4 to -6 on the very odd day around here during winter but im tipping the inside of the battery itself is still well above 0, so ill try an insulating jacket around it and a rubber matt beneath to decouple it from its metal base plate.

Sounds like you have a great setup, Victron especially make some quality gear. I was quite surprised about the QR codes as well.

When I removed the BMS from the cell pack, I only saw the one temp probe.

@@LockyourHubs4WDingas an update, I just bought a 2nd Kings 200A lithium battery 1 week later, which has now arrived and has a blue top on it & is about 25mmm-30mm wider than the first battery to arrive that has a black top, it would be very interesting to know/see the difference between these two battery versions. I am guessing that the black top may be pouch cells, while the blue top battery may have updated to a prismatic cell allocation. I have 12v, 24v & 48v inverters, so I would like 4 of these (at the $800 price specials) they make reasonable economic sense, & are supposed to have the ability to be connected in 4x series for up to 48v, so would be versatile for use between my 12v canopy camper setup and 24v & 48v inverters I run in my other off grid Bus, shed & house setups. I would love to see some real tests done on these Kings Lithium batteries to prove their BMS’s can be 4 x series connected and deliver prolonged reliable current under decent loads. Active balancing works by taking the excess voltage from a higher cell & transferring it to the lowest cell in the pack & is generally a much higher current up to 5-10A and is a much better method for balancing of larger cells in particularly. Passive balancing is the most commonly used method probably because it is cheaper in design, it generally trims the voltage of higher cells via resistive load, and accordingly varies from a few milliamperes up to maybe 150 milliamperes depending on many variables built into its design, it works, but is generally too slow to be able to balance cells efficiently, and are probably not really a suitable solution for cells of 100A or more especially if they are being drawn reasonably hard on a daily basis, active balancers are needed at least occasionally to help keep battery cell balance in check. I have 3 x Seplos ‘Suntorque” 48v 5kwh batteries with passive balancers - 10yr warranty I bought through Commodore last year, 2 of which are failing dismally in under a year, 1 has lost 35% capacity, the 2nd has lost about 25% capacity and the 3rd battery is still at 100% capacity, so I will be seeking a warranty claim on those 2 batteries before long, and I think they are getting up to 240mv out of balance between cells. I also have 16 x 310A cells hooked up to a JK BMS with 2A active cell balancing for about another 15kwh paralleled to the 15kwh Suntorque bank, which has kept the battery cells within 2-3mv flawlessly on a daily basis. I also have 2 x 24v 5kwh battery banks (paralleled) in a bus up north with JK BMS’s & 2A active balancers which also work great keeping the cells at 2-3mv delta. Hope I haven’t bored you too much. Cheers I

Kings have a video about the blacktop 200A lithium battery they sell. In that video they explain that the cells are brand new grade A and are prismatic.@@evil17

Cells are welded no doubt because it's cheaper at volume. I agree, a decent BMS would go a long way toward improving this battery.

Happy to help! I think other than the cold temp protection, the battery seems like a decent buy.

Some AGM's are even more expensive than the Kings.

@@strikemaster1 full river for instance!

@@LockyourHubs4WDing Yup mate... Batteries direct are selling the 120 FR AGM bat for $580 and I think Kings Li is cheaper. Same with Victron and Redarc. I do admit however, the FR bat is a good AGM. I had one a few years ago coupled with a Ctek charger, and it never missed a beat.

Kings are selling the 120Ah for $300 today (21/12/23)

Thanks, I was not impressed with the QR code issue either, you would think the retailer would want to be as upfront with the customers as possible, considering past indiscretions.

It explains the price though.

@@HardstylePete it does.

They may not only need a new supplier, but they need to lift their own standards at the same time.

Kings staff will be aware of these issues and made decisions based on cost over quality. Also internal construction of battery and cheaper Bms indicates cost over quantity of build won out.

They do seem like a decent thing!

If you're getting more capacity than stated it would be likely they are second hand higher capacity batteries that have degraded a little.

@@turbostyler that's definitely a possibility, though as they've removed the QR codes, there is no way to tell!

@@turbostyler that's one theory but then once again there's no proof, the cells are not swollen from any long use like they always swell up and end up looking like not perfect rectangle after 300+ cycles 😌

@@michaelmedicworldoftanks33fps You're right, we can only speculate. Even if they were second hand good cells from a refurbished battery it wouldn't bother me at that price point. My mate just picked up 2 of them for his boat a week ago and I'm a little jelly and am thinking of converting my lead acid setup to lithium in my canopy.

I must admit, I'm a bit of a Victron fanboy! For people who like to tinker, their system is great. All my high amperage battery testing is done with a Victron shunt.

Awesome. Would love more victron content sometime. Thanks!!@@LockyourHubs4WDing

If I can get hold of one, no worries!

The mark 1 (the one from Aussie Arvos) is a pouch cell battery, other than the branding, it's a completely different battery. Though they seem pretty decent as well.

@@LockyourHubs4WDing cheers, I hadn’t realized the difference but hopefully the mk2 is just as reliable. Love your videos by the way, been a long term follower. Bought the 12v travel buddy and am about to install it with the 15v stepup converter as per your video 😎👍

@@LockyourHubs4WDingthanks, I was wondering about the AArvo’s battery, I thought it was a prismatic cell type, it performed well under test. I prefer the newer prismatic type cells over the pouch calls.

You're welcome, and you're right, without intact QR codes, you'll never know.

Big Wei, Custom Lithium etc are definitely great batteries, but that's not the same demographic looking to buy a Kings Lithium or one of their similarly priced competitors.

I've always been interested in radio, even since the 27Mhz CB days. I think that would be a great video, the list of videos I want to make is starting to get a bit long, but that's definitely being tacked onto the list.

LiFePO⁴ batteries should be good for about 10 years.

I'm not sure the BMV712 temp gauge can also stop the DCDC from charging, you might have to check with Victron on that one.

It's packed well with plenty of foam, so should be fine.

@@LockyourHubs4WDing Have you ever opened up any other brands

Only the one external probe, as you saw later in the video I completely removed the BMS from the cell pack. Additionally during testing, I managed to get the steel plate to -30C with the probe attached.

I fortunately not, I do know the black top 120Ah version had pouch cells though. Though I have seen blue top 200Ah batteries in store advertised with prismatic cells and a higher 200A discharge rating.

Hmmmm, I would just need to get my hands on one!

I'm not sure, unfortunately I haven't pulled one apart.

The resting voltage should be around 13.6v for any 4S LiFePO⁴ battery.

Admittedly that was your friendly neighbourhood AI, ChatGPT. I'm suspecting I should have dragged out the 30 year old physics text books from back in the day. I'll look into it and put any corrections in the description.

@@LockyourHubs4WDing well chat gpt makes more sense logically like 50mm2 can handle 200 amps quite nicely which would be that 4amps per mm2 but as soon as you mention busbars people seem to think you require 1.2 amps per mm2

Yep, not sure about that one, I haven't even seen one up close yet

Let's hope it's the same!

@@LockyourHubs4WDing I’m waiting on a Victron smart shunt and I will test the capacity at least… I think I may buy another of the new ones though as to not have two different battery’s, lesson learned though, buy them at the same time !

The Victron shunts are great, you can actually connect a VE direct to USB cable directly to your computer and use Victron's software to datalog the discharge.

@@LockyourHubs4WDing I didn’t know you could do that, good to know !

They seem like a decent solution, especially if you're moving from an AGM to your first Lithium battery.

Sorry, no.

@@LockyourHubs4WDing All good, thanks!

Should be fine, they're not like flooded lead acid batteries.

I've not heard of that battery (though in all fairness, there are probably lots I haven't heard of!) Unfortunately, I don't have one to test.

​@@LockyourHubs4WDingif it helps: RTM is pretty much the same as Jaycar (same parent company I think) - big overlap in stock, same product ids, same design web site.

Usually LiFePO4 batteries don't really enjoy being alternator charged and much prefer a DCDC charger.

Good point about nickel, Supacentre never did return my email inquiry after I supplied them with the batch number of the battery at their request. I not sure the low temp protection is that big of a deal in our market, though it strikes me as strange as they already have a BMS with the necessary thermocouple probe, that surely implementing the cold protection would simply be a matter of updating the BMS firmware.

You make a great point, most aren't living full time in their 4WDs or Caravans so for the most part, the Kings gear can make great economic sense.

It's not great when they remove the QR codes, it leaves more questions than answers.

@@LockyourHubs4WDing Exactly. It's why after lots of research, I decided to stick with my trusty AGM's and they are cheaper to replace.

​@@Mrbullet1952 I don't find AGM battery's "trusty" Heavy poor depth of discharge.... And as far as trusty I have had even very high quality ones just kick the tin

The electrical engineer from the USA is probably getting people to buy insanely high priced battery's and the like to ..

@@MegaRyan123456 He actually tested batteries from Battle Born Batteries and even they were surprised with the results.

It just struck me as strange that they would go to the trouble of using a BMS with a thermocouple probe, enable the high temp cut off and leave the low temp cut off on the table.

@@LockyourHubs4WDing yes you would think they would have it just to avoid warranty disputes. it would be good to see them either put one in the battery or sell one separately to those that need it.

@@6226superhurricane sounds like a simple programming issue to me. Easy fix.

The BMS can disconnect the battery to prevent damage from over or under temperature.... Taken directly from their website, I questioned them on this when I purchased one a few months ago, got nowhere

@@filthylucre351 yes you're right, last time i checked i didn't see cold temp cut off advertised. they will need to get on top of that. because there would be no dispute when it comes to warranty they said it's protected so any damage from sub zero charging would warranty.

I didn't see anything in the documentation, though there is a warning sticker that when placing batteries in parallel, they must be at the same voltage.

I think 4 is the limit. It's on their Web page.

@@turbostyler thanks for the info!

​@@turbostylertheir current web site says 2 parallel, 4 series - also mentions that they need to be the "same batch".

Why would you use 2? There was only one thermocouple from the BMS.

I've gotten a couple of eve 280Ah cells have QR codes as well. Though my app unfortunately doesn't read them, I must chase up a better app.

You're welcome! We've done an install of the older Kings 25a DCDC, though not sure if that model is still available or not.

@@LockyourHubs4WDing I don't think that is available as the new ones are lithium compatible.

That's right! I might have to have a look at the new models

Check out part 1 of the video! kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mM2Vm9Jpnrq8opc.html

Sorry, I didn't.

​@@LockyourHubs4WDingno worries cheers mate... useful vid. seems about 155x155 measuring off the video... Also - any issues with the BMS once hooked back up? ie a tamper proof (seen some that will shut down if they think they've been messed with). probably gonna crack mine open so I can get them in a smaller case (got 2 of em :P )

@@sn0wchyld The battery seems to be still working fine, no issues with the BMS.

As a fellow Mexican 😁 and having a small Victron addiction, I'll sort out the temp protection issue with the chargers. There will never be a "best" just a "best for your use case". Like most things in life.... If you're a Queenslander, and only use low draw equipment, this battery will be ideal, straight out of the box. I'll be putting this one in the 80, running an Engel 75 combi 24/7 on solar. We'll see in a year how much capacity it has lost.

If I can get my hands on one, I would love too!

I did search, only the one temp probe.

Especially the deserts!

@joshuamccabe7729 I've been there many times! I live in Vic. ,but when I was working in Central QLD many years ago it was well below freezing!

@joshuamccabe7729 yeah I'd only been to QLD a couple of times, but when I worked there I had no idea that it actually got that cold! I was near a place called Stanthorpe, that joint is cold af

Whilst you're right, it's a double edged sword, without ads, content creators can't create content.

G'day Cahn, shoot us an email at our contact address and I'll send you a photo of the batch number. Cheers Simon

Would love to, just need to get my hands on one.....

Everything is better with Bluetooth!

I was thinking that might be the case myself, though without the QR codes, who knows!

I'll happily tear one apart. I installed one in a mate's 200, but he seemed reluctant to let me tear his brand new battery apart! :)

@@LockyourHubs4WDing I ask to see what's inside their battery a couple of years ago at the 4×4 show and was basically told to leave.

I was going to suggest the same thing, I would like to see the 120X teardown and tested properly.

Yes! I'm Victorian...... :)

I was pretty disappointed as well.

And King's still hasn't answered that one....

@@LockyourHubs4WDing Mmmm that's a little concerning. Easier to replace under rated wire as such than it is lithium cells you know nothing about.. Love your videos though man! This a hobby or are you an auto sparky/electro engineer?

I'm a fully qualified epistemophilic 😁

Most! Well the cells at least anyhow.