Taking control of your career | Ethan Evans (Amazon)

Рет қаралды 47,129

Күн бұрын

Ethan Evans is a writer, career coach, course instructor, and retired VP at Amazon. During his 15 years at Amazon, he helped invent Prime Video, Amazon Video, the Amazon Appstore, Prime Gaming (formerly Twitch Prime), and Twitch Commerce. Prior to Amazon, Ethan spent 12 years in technical leadership roles at several East Coast startups. He writes a newsletter, Level Up, which publishes candid career advice and has a growing community of ambitious professionals to connect with. Ethan also offers a range of Leadership Development Courses via live online classes and on-demand courses. In this episode, we discuss:
• The Magic Loop framework: a five-step process to grow your career
• A handful of reasons why people get stuck in their career growth
• Advice on how to break out of a career plateau
• How to cultivate inventiveness in your work
• How to stand out in interviews
• A personal story of failing Jeff Bezos and lessons learned
• Contrarian opinions on the return-to-office movement and doing business on a handshake
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Find the transcript and references at: www.lennyspodcast.com/taking-...
Where to find Ethan Evans:
• LinkedIn: / ethanevansvp
• Substack: levelupwithethanevans.substac...
Where to find Lenny:
• Newsletter: www.lennysnewsletter.com
• X: / lennysan
• LinkedIn: / lennyrachitsky
In this episode, we cover:
(00:00) Ethan’s background
(04:25) The Magic Loop
(08:31) The goal of the Magic Loop
(10:59) Clarifications on the framework
(12:46) Success stories
(17:22) The importance and effectiveness of the Magic Loop
(19:01) A quick summary of the steps in the Magic Loop
(21:46) What if you’re not pursuing a promotion?
(23:09) How to break out of a career plateau
(28:52) How to become systematically inventive
(36:04) Interview advice and how to stand out
(40:43) A story of failing Jeff Bezos
(50:31) Lessons learned from that failure
(57:30) What Ethan would have done differently
(01:00:35) Amazon’s leadership principles
(01:08:52) Contrarian corner: Returning to the office vs. staying remote
(01:10:39) Contrarian corner: Doing business on a handshake
(01:11:52) Lightning round
Production and marketing by penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.
Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

Пікірлер: 42

@toabhijeetsingh 4 ай бұрын

I have been following Ethan for a while. Whatever he is doing is of so much help to aspiring leaders and people who want to grow their careers. It is always good to get perspective from someone who has been there done that.

@EthanEvansVP 4 ай бұрын

Thank you, kind words! I'm glad my advice is helpful to you!

@user-rp6mc7sw9y 4 ай бұрын

Thank you Lenny! This is exactly what was needed in the podcast space. Your choice of people is unique and you are able to deliver a vibrant energy through your podcasts. Thanks man! Kudos to you

@LennysPodcast 4 ай бұрын

I really appreaciate that!

@ch012 3 ай бұрын

Great show...Listening to this conversation with Ethan Evans made me come out of the effect of past. Thanks a ton.

@talktosavjani 4 ай бұрын

@LennysPodcast - You are raising the bar of each podcast higher and higher. Thanks for bringing leaders who are not just great at what they do, but have good frameworks, and recipes to help others. I hope, pray and wish this podcast doesn't stop and you continue to bring new leaders with new learnings and unique perspectives.

@yoongjason 4 ай бұрын

Terrific advice on how to own your career mixed with fun Jeff Bezos / Amazon stories (lessons). A career growth masterclass.

@user-dc3ij7lo9m 3 ай бұрын

Loved this podcast! Honestly, this was the very first podcast that I listened through. Although I have just recently started listening to all the episodes but this one was definitely my favorite. Maybe, because I resonate it to my own professional life somewhere. Thanks for doing all the good work. Great job!

@mimkusss4e Ай бұрын

Great conversation!!

@rva548 4 ай бұрын

Great podcast. Thank you Lenny and Ethan

@silverchairsg 3 ай бұрын

This is the best and most useful career advice interview I've ever come across!

@piyatiwari 4 ай бұрын

Great video! I’ve been a fan of Ethan’s LinkedIn content for a while. (Also realized that he looks way younger on video, now need a podcast on his skincare routine too 😂). Great podcast!

@yoongjason 4 ай бұрын

Due to popular demand, the next episode…skincare with Lenny and Ethan haha!

@EthanEvansVP 4 ай бұрын

You can't see me blushing, thank you. I am honest though - I recognize appearance matters so I good lighting and a touch of skin makeup under the eyes, courtesy of my wife. So I guess you could say my skin routine is in part recognizing that I wanted to look nice to the camera and I'm not too proud to break out the foundation 🙂

@precious.goziemba 3 ай бұрын

Thank you Lenny and Ethan. This was super valuable.

@Purnang_Borah 3 ай бұрын

Thanks to Lenny for the podcast. It's fascinating to hear from Ethan, whom I recently discovered on LinkedIn. I've been tuning into various podcasts, and Ethan's explanations are exceptional and worth listening to.

@MarkSimithraaratchy 4 ай бұрын

Stellar discussion. I’ve learned something useful each time I’ve listened to Ethan. It was helpful to hear more nuance on the Magic Loop. This is an especially great interview given Lenny’s interview skills and the research he always does. Would also recommend his discussion with Will Larson. Looking forward to the next time Ethan and Lenny sit down together.

@mhauzeur 4 ай бұрын

Without knowing it I have been implementing the magic loop but something was missing, thanks to bringing this up because now I know the route to keep growing.

@EthanEvansVP 4 ай бұрын

Fantastic. @mhauzeur I would love to know what you were missing?

@mhauzeur 4 ай бұрын

Thanks for replying @@EthanEvansVP! Regarding the 5 steps, I think I have been implementing them for a while, but regarding the process of growth, when you start by asking how I can help you, then by identifying issues, then by identifying the issues and fixing them, etc. I am in the process of making the complete jump to just keep in the loop with my leader. I thought that keeping him in the loop was something wrong, but not, is part of the process and seniority. Now, I wonder, what comes next after keeping in the loop? Should I focus on Innovation and strategy? On the other hand, I am using your framework to apply to my team, so thanks for sharing.

@TheJapfanboy 3 ай бұрын

Subscribed. Absolutely amazing content.

@RS-vu5um 3 ай бұрын

Great Interview. Very informative. I like the flow.

@ReasonableHuman1 Ай бұрын

Thank you!

@jeffs8463 3 ай бұрын

Incredible episode! I've always enjoyed Ethan's point of view and advice, however I believe I was previously within the "loop" yet was released without cause shortly after returning from my wedding due to jeopardizing my bosses job security as my results moved me up the chain pretty quickly within 2 years. It's been incredibly difficult to get back in the groove as of late as the job industry where I am is limited, so do be cautious as I feel like I missed a few obvious comments and/or questionable actions that suggested I should've lessened my productivity as my KPI's were putting others to shame.

@SanRob0302 2 ай бұрын

Lenny - this episode was fantastic. I heard you were interviewing B2B product leaders, have you considered Evan Goldberg who was the founder of NetSuite? One of the first OG SaaS companies along with Salesforce. He is a super brilliant guy with a lot of deep perspectives and would love to see you interview him.

@LennysPodcast 2 ай бұрын

Thanks for the tip, will look into him.

@TheRealTommyR 3 ай бұрын

Excellent information. I wish that I could buy Ethan coffee and pick his brain further.

@EthanEvansVP 3 ай бұрын

I wish you could too. Sadly, I get requests for several coffee chats per day. The way I scale my time is to do live events for my (paid) Substack newsletter subscribers. It costs a bit more than a coffee, but it gives you more access, too.

@TheRealTommyR 3 ай бұрын

@@EthanEvansVP Thank you for responding; I certainly did not expect you to. I quickly signed up for the free version of your sub-stack today, however, I will check it out in more detail and might subscribe.

@celestema2506 4 ай бұрын

What if the manager uses you to do the dirty work they're supposed to do but incompetent of doing? Like asking you to ask someone to do work or have a performance talk. And because you don't have the title, the recipients start to resent you.

@EthanEvansVP 3 ай бұрын

Great question. I think in a case like this you do need to push back on the work, explaining that these are management tasks and inappropriate for you to do. While I think there are fewer "bad" managers than people think, they absolutely do exist, and if your manager is asking you to perform personnel tasks, then you need to go find a better manager.

@adama7752 3 ай бұрын

As always, it depends on the connections this manager has. First, smooth it over with the fellow employee. Inform the manager's boss of the work your are doing that should be your managers role. Obviously it places a relationship strain because of titles/roles. Because of politics, your manager may not be moved. You need to develop a backup plan. Always having an exit strategy, in any business situation. I understand it feels uncomfortable, however I'm sure your Manager's Boss needs 'ammo' like this to get things changed.

@celestema2506 3 ай бұрын

Thanks for the answers. It's good to know I'm not the only one who thinks changes need to be made in these situations.

@PeterOrlovacz 4 ай бұрын

Is there another pre-requisite for this to work, (if the goal is a promotion) namely that the company has to be growing? You can do whatever, if there’s just not enough space in wherever you are trying to go, at your current company.

@EthanEvansVP 4 ай бұрын

Hi Peter. Growth is absolutely helpful but is not the only way up. People leave. People are fired. In the current economy, the way I see leaders I coach growing is that their peers are laid off and they are given the pieces of teams that are left. They have hard jobs (picking up the pieces), but they get both more responsibility and somewhat more people in the changes. There is no doubt that the most fun thing is what I call "riding the elevator," where the company is growing and you ride up with that growth. But it is not the only way, and it is not one you can count on. I will say, if you find yourself at what I call "the post office," which is a place where no one ever leaves and there is very little movement, all based on tenure, then it is very hard. Your best option there is switch companies.

@PeterOrlovacz 3 ай бұрын

Thank you Ethan! I just left such a post office a few months ago.

@MarkCicero 4 ай бұрын

I dont think number of patents is a good measure of inventiveness as it is highly dependent on available capital. Surely, working at Amazon would allow you to file many patients.

@EthanEvansVP 4 ай бұрын

Mark, I actually agree with you. The challenge is that there is no great agreed measurement of inventiveness. We have things like the SAT for math and writing, and the GPA for college performance, but I am unaware of an easy metric for invention. Thus, I used the best proxy that is available. What I can tell you is that I had more patents than most people at Amazon, often 10x more. There were also a few people with more than me. Those people had access to the same resources; a few of them did more, most did less, at least on this one dimension.

@Falcon8856 3 ай бұрын

When you develop an idea while working at a company, doesn't the employer gain the rights to it? How do you create and have ownership over 70 patents then?

@eugene_dudnyk 3 ай бұрын

“Magic Loop” == “Favoritism”. Let’s give up on tabooing favoritism in our code of conduct, and call it “magic”. Let’s not hire competent grownups as managers who can express what they expect from employees, let’s make it employees’ competitive ass-leaking practice to figure out what their wordless manager needs. Hahahaha