How much would YOU pay for a Chinese (branded) frameset?

About you reviewing things, remember, people are always going to find a problem if they want to. Absolutely love your content, so keep up the excellent work

pretty sure i rode by at 11:13. i'm a huge fan and plan on getting the magene pes p505 due to your review. keep up the awesome work!

I've ridden my Attack for 6 months now and it's quite frankly worth the price I paid. The build quality is at least as good as any other comparable western frame. I've ridden everything from S-works Aethos to Tarmac to Madone to Canyon Aeroad, and at least in terms of build quality there is nothing to be ashamed of. What it does lack is a prestigious name on the side. Some people care about flexing brands at the coffee stop. I care about flexing watts, so name on the components is irrelevant if the quality is there. As far as geometry, mine fits me like a glove, but as you say, I have long legs and short torso so we definitely agree there. My CRW wheels are also the 5060s and I also live in a very windy area, but I haven't noticed any issues with instability. This is odd because I'm a bit lighter than you, so if anything I should be blown around a bit more. The CRW pros: weight is insanely light and they are incredibly snappy as a result. They are also incredibly stiff, which aids the snappiness. cons for me are I've had issues cornering at speed with them like in a crit, but this is something I've experienced with every wheelset using Conti 5ks, so I'm going to chalk it up to those tires being fast in a straight line but handling poorly.

That's such a good looking build 🤩

They sure had some super nice paint jobs on display at the Shanghai bike show!

Keep up the good work. You keep getting better and better at reviews. Don't worry too much about the state of bike reviewing. There is a general pushback against experts in favor of loud voices who wanted a bigger platform. The experts pushed back to protect their hard earned credentials. Everyone forgot that expertise and experience are both valuable. That said, I am engineer and I know you are repeating claims from elsewhere that lightweight wheels are less stable and while sort of true, the math doesn't really check out in terms of that being something that would affect an experienced rider like you as much as it has here. Likely the issue is with the rim shape. I also dont mind the price of chinese brands if they offer enough value and service in the D2C models. Its a pretty steep hill to climb though and you cant always make every customer happy. Cyclists cant be expected to be professionals and its always your fault as the brand...so I dont envy the challenges that Seka, Elilee, and Tavelo face.

🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥 your content is getting better and better just like your bikes...lol..I've watched you improve over the years..I definitely put cyclist on to your channel..keep up the great work bro 💯💯💯

As others have noted, some people just want to hate for hating sake. Just keep up the good work.

Good stuff man. Just keep doing you, the reviews from someone that likes bikes are still valid! Stoked to see your SL8 review. I agree about higher prices being a weird place, but I think bikes like Winspace will start getting name recognition and earn their place im Western brand price land.

Awesome, comprehensive review Sir! I am very surprised to hear that front wheel depth did poorly in crosswinds. Must have been howling

That frame color fade is classic and classy.

Looks a lot like a SL7 to me. I’ve bought a young used frameset SL7 SW including cockpit for €3100. A lot more money but the resale price is a lot higher as well and you’ll get a guaranteed standard. Your Tavelo looks ace!

Yep I am right there with you on the price. I think it’s just 300-$400 too expensive to justify. I’m currently riding an elves Falath evo and that was the exact price point I was looking for, good balance between good value and good QC (although the frame is a bit heavy)

I'm fascinated by your experience with the Craft 5060 wheels. I also have a set, and intentionally took them out on a day that I typically reserve some shallow-section wheels for, specifically to test their steering response in nasty wind conditions. Winds that day were 20-25mph with gusts over 30. On my Giant TCR, I did not experience nearly as much wind grab as I had expected. I roll on 28mm(nominal) Schwalbe Pro One tires, which measure 31+ on the front and 29+ on the rear. I can't say how that compares to the Conti tires, as I haven't installed those on these wheels, but it might be worth checking, and if it turns out that my tire profile is wider, perhaps it would be worth you trying a 30 on the front to see if that changes your experience. I know that in the past, Conti has measured closer to the labeled width on some of my friends' wheels. I HAVE had some other issues with the Craft wheels - specifically front bearing binding - but the push I get from the wind has seemed notably less than I have experienced from other wheels of a similar depth.

Good looking ride. Point well made re the price difference vs other premium brands. Fact is it would be easier for you to resell the Tarmac, Giant vs Tavelo. Also recall being told the attack is not UCI certified which further limits it reach (arrow will be). There is a really fit guy at my GYM who spends at least 3 hours daily on a Eurobike (Xc550 for sale full bike at Wallmart for 220 usd) and has no complaints

Hi Patrick How do you know or can tell that the front stability issues that you mentioned is due to the wheels and not due to the geometry? Did you try to compare their behavior on a different bikes ? Sometimes the stability issues comes from the whole package and not just from the wheels. It will be interesting to try this ❤ 🙏🏼

I would love to buy a chinese frame but there just to small for me. But i guess making a 61cm frame is just not a smart busines decision for the chinese market.

Yoooooo~ I agree with what you said with these “high end” Chinese bikes’ pricing. I might as well settle for a big name brand 💯

Great, honest review

I broke my front wheel which was a 50mm. Was hard to control in the crosswinds we get here. So I had to put my 30mm front wheel in and now its a dream in the crosswinds and I can go anywhere, anytime without having to take my old training bike. Looks a bit funny, but works really well!

Another great vid bro! Did the craft wheels feel sketchy at high speeds? Or speed +winds

£1,200 for any frameset for me is the right price whether its China brand or Western

As far as the cost of Chinese frame goes, IMO it's still way less than a big-brand frame. In addition, the cost of building a bike is almost always going to be higher than buying a stock bike with similar specs. Jesse Coyle said it the best on the latest Nero show; if you have the exact specifications, and it's going to lead you to replace many of the parts that come with the bike, then a custom build may be cheaper in the long run. Whereas, if a bike comes pretty much exactly what you want, then it's cheaper that direction. Manufactures are able to buy parts at OEM cost, and it's massively less than the MSRP costs that consumers pay.

Nice review... as always. We thank you!!! The Tavelo Arow says 'more aero and lighter', and that's for the base version which is just $300 more than the attack... I haven't looked at the geometry, but I imagine the Arow is more aggressive geometry than the attack. Would be great to have a light aero comfortable bike. I'm curious to see Joe's continental race team frame on his website, but I forget which manufacturer he was using.

You definitely need above a 30 for GP 5000. I had that problem with my Yoeleo 50/88 wheels. Those 25 and 28 were terrible it those crosswinds! My 32 wheels are much better and faster. My 30s handle better, too. I'm not going back to 28s. You still will feel that wind in Chicago when it's 15 mph and above. It was a few weeks ago when we had those 25 mph winds.

The pricing to me must be competitive to a 2nd hand western brand frame. Why to pay premium for something that might end up being a quality/support nightmare... The wheel suppliers seems to have a different understanding of their price positioning. Speaking about that, maybe the more recentbprice jumps in the global market from CHN vendors is to level up their offering in the eyes of the local CHN customers which is the main target for most brands.

Well, next up to review could be their new Arow frame If the quality is as high as you and others are saying it is definitely worth the money. Ive seen people write that this Attack frame is the same as the current main frame sold by Nich in Thailand and they charge way more than Tavelo. I'd be interested in hearing hiw the Arow compares to the Propel, (and Win space 1500, and Allez sprint). With the Arow being - even by name - more of a full aero frame, it'd be a more direct competitor to the Propel One question - you spoke a lot about how the bike feels while climbing. Are you doing those comparisons using the same wheels or at least very similar wheel weights?

What sets the Craft wheels apart from the other brands on the market ie: Drive Helix or Lun wheels? What justifies the hope around them, is it just the weight because I have a set of Drive Helix 68D's and the freebody compared between the two seem night an day in overall finish and quality. The 200g difference Im sure is a selling point but going 50mm+ in depth then weight isnt really selling point but moreso the aero gains and my Helix's at 55-61mm in the front and 62-68mm in the rear hold a line pretty well in a crosswind or gust senario, I cant tell the difference between them and my 50mm wheels but both have the wave design.

this years is best year many ACM brand launch light weight frame

Can't wait to see how the SL8 ride quality compares to this

I like the Chinese framesets, but they do not fit me, not even close - they are for 20 somethings -I'm 54- Argon 18 Krypton fits me perfectly. The only problem I have with Chinese wheelsets are the rear hubs and probably not being able to get a freehub in 5 or 10 years. I bought some Light Bicyle custom rims and they are great, laced to DT hubs. (Like the first 'money shot' photo taken in the setting sun - well composed!)

The main reason to buy domestic is for customer service otherwise Here's a list of 10 US domestic bike brands that have Asian manufacturers: 1. Specialized Bicycles 2. Trek Bikes 3. Giant Bicycles 4. Cannondale 5. Santa Cruz Bicycles 6. Yeti Cycles 7. Pivot Cycles 8. Diamondback Bicycles 9. Kona Bikes 10. Intense Cycles. How much is domestic customer service worth is the real question?

Great review

I like your Jersey; where did you get it from?

Curious: I'm finding the same thing with my Elite Drive 50D front wheel. I feel like it's a little unstable in descents and crosswinds. Thinking about moving on from them. I know you have the same set, would you say the same about your Elite wheels? Also, do you have any recommendations on what to replace my set with if I wanted a little less depth while keeping in the 1300-1400gram range?

You better hold every stem like that from now on (1:07)

Patrick is it comfortable enough for someone who rides endurance bikes?

These chinese brands are pricing themselves out of the market with the frames. I just hope they don't do the same with electronic groupets.

Hey Patrick, I’m looking for a new carbon spoke wheel set and have come down to the Far Sports S5 or the CRW 5055 (will run these on 28mm GP5K’s). If you had to pick a set to run on an aero frame, which would you choose?

Hi Patrick, how are you liking that Wahoo headunit? I have an Edge 1030 but I am bored of it lol! I want to try something different.

Whats your opinion on the Tavelos being open mold according to some forums?

I thought you were a LEGION brother!🤣😂

Waiting for the chaoyang reviews

Why dont they find a more original brand name that does not resemble some other brand?

How this frame on sprinting. Thanks 🙏

That’s my route lol.

Any discount codes for the frame?

I wanted this paintjob and they wanted 500$ extra lmao :) maybe don't advertise is on your social media if it's 500$ extra. Tavelo is silly and won't deal with them after this.

Ok. It's just a Chinese bike frame. Thanks for the show. But I'd rather buy domestic brands still.

Your review is cocky 😅