Tesla Module repair | Zero volts to useable? Lets find out !
Рет қаралды 136,776
3 жыл бұрынTrying to recover Tesla modules that have been sitting fully discharged for years. I used a very low current with a benchtop power supply to slowly bring the cells back to life. I will be sending the DC to DC, input board & BMS down to Dave from EEVblog to see if he can shed some light on how they operate & any other info he can glean from them.
Key Components used in this video -
🔵 FLIR Thermal Camera - ebay.us/6kGlbl
🔵 Icharger X6 - s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_A4AxAG
🔵 Tesla cells - ebay.us/KbF1U2
🔵 Bench power supply - ebay.us/hgb5y5
💻💡DIYPowerwalls Community Facebook Group 💡💻
► / diypowerwalls
Second Life Storage Cell Finder -
🔋 Lithium Power - Australia - bit.ly/lithium_power
🔋 Paolo Italy ebay.to/38xPUhT
🔋 Battery Hookup USA bit.ly/batteryhookup (10% coupon 'Powerwalls')
🔋 BigBattery USA bit.ly/big_battery (10% coupon 'Powerwalls')
🔋 Tim De Groot NL ebay.to/2OX9koS
🔋 Power 2 Spare USA ebay.to/2SuJWsr
🔋 Pro-LOX Netherlands ebay.to/2HsyPKr
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Cheap BMS - s.click.aliexpress.com/e/eX4NpXsc
Quality BMS - www.batrium.com
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Learning resources -
🔖 DIY Lithium Batteries- amzn.to/2MC4BaM
🔖 Mobile Solar Power Made Easy - amzn.to/2Tzk6TA
🔖 DIY Solar Power - amzn.to/2IgxfMa
Recommended Gear -
🔵 Clamp AMP Tester -- goo.gl/z8b4uJ
🔵 iCharger X6 - goo.gl/GtBtW9
🔵 Thermal Camera - bit.ly/35qWwgh
Affiliate Stores -
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💸 Banggood - goo.gl/1PWhni
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Thanks for tuning in as always!
Pete
#diypowerwalls #hbpowerwall #18650ed #diypowerwall
@faithb29 3 жыл бұрын
I have recovered 2 of these exact same batteries 3 years ago from zero volts and still use them today at their full capacity of 5.2 kWh. I recovered by charging each cell group separately 3V at 50ma to start then up to 4V . Also did IR test before and after charge only took about a WEEK, then slow discharge test to check capacity. They both came back to life. I move about 3kWh daily through each battery.
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
I don't think it makes any difference one P or 6P , but i'll try that! I'll also try for a longer higher amp charge cycle
@QuantumBraced 3 жыл бұрын
@@HBPowerwall Please do, would love to see that!
@scoobyblu5815 3 жыл бұрын
1S charge 😊
@luminatrixfanfiction 2 жыл бұрын
@@HBPowerwall I'm not a professional but I think earlier in the video when you ramped up the recharge voltages and amps all the way to maximum just to show an example, I think that killed the battery for sure. Also Chad Barnes idea sounds good. Wouldn't each cell group be tailored based on their capacity rating for maximum lifespan and efficiency much in the same way you built your 25kw/h laptop cell battery power bank? If so, it would make sense to recharge them separately at different charge rates. Again I'm not a professional so I'm just basically guessing :)
@MrRumbing Жыл бұрын
Hey mate I have a tesla powerwall like this one that is flat can you go into more detail?
@dgb5820 2 жыл бұрын
It was worth your tests 100% and thanks for the link on that thermal camera
@88ElevenShop 3 жыл бұрын
you are the inspiration for me to be motivated to produce my video ideas. really ! Thank you very much!
@kwinzman 3 жыл бұрын
Last hope: maybe just a short somewhere? Maybe just a few batteries dead? Can you try and isolate a few cells and test if they hold a charge in isolation?
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
Considering stripping one... Might be a boring video tho
@ahaveland 3 жыл бұрын
A binary search should find any dead cells more quickly than going through each one sequentially, but I'd throw them all in the Opus and see what they do.
@korishan 3 жыл бұрын
@@HBPowerwall When it comes to your vids, Pete, they are enjoyable and informative, regardless of the content or how "boring" you think they are 😎😉
@typxxilps 3 жыл бұрын
@@HBPowerwall no, it is not boring if you explain the things like here in this video. It is sad that it did not work out this way but at least you tried - and we / I learned something. If you would have succeeded then no dead tesla batteries would be available on the market ...
@embed0 3 жыл бұрын
@@HBPowerwall Do it. It will be simillar to that "Dead Shorting Cell Level Fuses" one where we can actually see what's going on and not just guessing. You will change an "I guess" for "I am sure", which is in my opinion that's what we are all here to see. My guess it probably isn't short. My guess is that all expirienced same enviromental expierience (even bad temp and hum in wherehouse can matter for longer peroid of time) or that this batch of cells that were used where in reality some sort of "grade B" quality.
@SvetlyootSofia 9 ай бұрын
Thanks, for the video! There is a lot of valuable information.
@HBPowerwall 9 ай бұрын
Glad it was helpful!
@Doctorbasss 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for making this video HBP. It is really importat to let people understand that it does not work and that it's a bad idea. Your video is now proving the truth. In fact your battery is now like a big heater and if you still ask it to recharge it will go unstable and all the energy you could store into it would serve as thermal runaway energy if it blow up. The copper that has been dissolving is now acting as a resistance between anode and cathode.
@ursodermatt8809 3 жыл бұрын
but it will shake all the nay sayers and nutters out of the woodwork to prove him wrong
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
I hate it URS but you're right... someone will pull a battery that is 0.1v and 'recover it' and say LOOK I did EXACTLY what pete did and it worked.. :( NO - HUGE difference between 0.1v and zero buddies...
@DivyangM 3 жыл бұрын
Was waiting for this since previous episode.
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
Was it worth the wait.. lol
@jamess1787 3 жыл бұрын
It should have come out before the last video, you know, because that makes the most sense. Now where's the mineral oil?
@DivyangM 3 жыл бұрын
@@HBPowerwall Of course sir. Always good to see things from inside. And also now I know that even Tesla's battery protection broads can fail sometimes.
@mikef888au1 3 жыл бұрын
Excellent video. Always wanted to see inside a Powerwall. Wish there WAS a way to rejuvenate those dead cells. Thanks
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
Yes, its a pitty about the batteries - did you see the video before & after this one pulling it down & retesting battery?
@GapRecordingsNamibia 3 жыл бұрын
Well done Pete, good on ya. All these folks thinking you're a noob to lithium.... Thank you for this mate, shows that once it's good 'n dead just recycle them and move on, else it might turn into tears if ya push it.....
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
Now one would THINK that was the path.. but NOOOO - two more days of playing may result in another video!!!
@retrozmachine1189 3 жыл бұрын
The model of bench power supply used to do the initial charge of the battery often has output resistors across the terminals (soldered onto the PCB). If the supply is left connected to the battery but turned off or current limit set to 0, the power supply will draw considerable current from the battery. This is part of the reason why the battery voltage falls so fast when the power supply is turned off.
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
Ok, i'll add that metric to my next test ... thanks for the heads up
@5885ronny 3 жыл бұрын
Super Video weiter so
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
Thank-You will do!
@Sifizero 3 жыл бұрын
thanks for the hot info, bad luck about the cells.
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
No worries!
@dexterandrada 3 жыл бұрын
Learning from the best!
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
Gota call you on that one.. I'm learning as I go my self :)
@dexterandrada 3 жыл бұрын
@@HBPowerwall I will reach out to you one of these days. I'm slowly learning the beauty of batteries, solar... Choices are a lot more nowadays
@peterduxbury927 2 жыл бұрын
I would remove any (random) 18650 single battery from the Pack, and then place under a singular charging test. And then over again. I would really need to convince myself that the Tesla Battery Module - with a value of around $1800 (when good). Has gone bad - beyond any economic repair(s). I always thought that the Battery Pack (even at failure) should retain about 70% of it's original and rated kWh for double-figure years! On a smaller scale, I have had Li -on Batteries fail on my Battery Drill, in a similar failure mode to Tesla model S Battery. A good video, and seemingly, your never-ending knowledge and years of experience to reach this point, helping us to understand much more about the behaviour of Lithium Batteries.
@12x2richter 7 ай бұрын
It depends. I just rebuilt my first (and second and third) Greenworks batteries... the oldest one that failed, after disassembling each of the cells, most of the cells were good. The aftermarket replacement battery, which was 2 years newer, only 3 cells would take a charge out of the 20. I'm not sure if it had to do with the quality of the BMS board or the type of failure, but there was significant difference. Also, FWIW, discovered that the new replacement "7Ah" and "6Ah" packs from eBay have only half as many cells. In reality they're more like 2.1Ah. But I was able to add the still good cells from the old Greenworks battery and bring it up to 4Ah, at least.
@salvadorw.empent2778 3 жыл бұрын
I've ran into the same problem where one cell will bring down the whole pack so I guess you'll have to just start isolating a few to find out!
@ekummel 2 жыл бұрын
That's what I was thinking.
@HBPowerwall 2 жыл бұрын
It’s a lot more than one or two
@catohallstensen7533 2 жыл бұрын
Tip. Set voltage to nominal battery voltage and adjust current limiter to 0...then connect battery. Tune current to what value you want. Then it will keep this value until battery voltage is reached. Or you change settings. Voltage will start out low and increse over time to voltage settings
@HBPowerwall 2 жыл бұрын
Yep, preaty much what I do these days - need to do an update video on this 'repair'
@Trebseig 3 жыл бұрын
What is the voltage supposed to be here? Is the voltage you put on it not below the minimum charging level? (and then the only thing that happens is warming up the battery)
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
should be +/- 22v the idea was to bring it back really slow... didn't work... So I'm doing it a different way now :)
@Stefanseiner 3 жыл бұрын
So sad, thanks for sharing
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
You're welcome
@RaithUK 3 жыл бұрын
well ya tried dude! good vid very well done.
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
I tried - AGAIN even - video in a few days :)
@jbrdddd 3 жыл бұрын
I've recovered a 16s10p 18650 pack that was at 0.4v average per cell, I got them going again. I think cycling once the cells were at normal voltage really helped. 4.2v to 3.2v and back, over and over again about 20 times. I reckon you'll do it! Good luck.
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
Nice work! I'm going to try..
@Jedi2155 Жыл бұрын
I would highly discourage trying to recovery ANY lithium-ion cell that has gone below 2v/cell because when you start reaching that voltage, the internal electrolyte/chemistry to start to become very acidic against the anode and dissolve the copper forming hydrogen gas. Even if you could recover the charge, you've now allow the cells to cyclilng with possible hydrogen gas inside the cell which becomes a ticking time bomb.
@DreStyle 3 жыл бұрын
Use the snips for the pin, you can reuse em then after! You can easily wiggle the snips behind
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
I tried a few different ways to get that pin out.. it's quite soft unfortunately.
@atonduke7612 3 жыл бұрын
@@HBPowerwall Try using needle nose pliers. That won't work if they are pushed in tight though. Then you could try using one or two tiny flat blade screwdrivers.
@helixx23 3 жыл бұрын
i had luck in recovering lithium cells by pushing a CV CC combo in 5v with 5A through it for a few seconds... then charge it normally if they got more then 1,1V
@thomasmoore4576 3 жыл бұрын
That's a good ide Put some were the higher voltage and amps and keep them cold in between by checking them and turning it off do that several times and then put a low voltage and bring it up slow
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
i used to do this many many years ago.. now it's low and slow ...
@georgepelton5645 3 жыл бұрын
Can you replace the two battery modules with used modules from a wrecked model S or X? If so, that might be a budget way to get a working powerwall.
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
If they unit had been commissioned it think this is an option, how ever since it'll need initial commission from a Tesla installer I don't think it will happen unless you can find a guy that wants to help out.
@komorka88 3 жыл бұрын
I did know you would not be able to resist hehe :)
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
I like to learn even if it is the hard way
@andrewgalamb2395 3 жыл бұрын
I'm curious if a high current pulse would help anything. You mentioned that it would have created dendrites being at this low of voltage, so you could potentially melt them with a quick pulse of current and then turn it off before the rest of the cell got too hot. Just curious
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
I'm thinking fuses will just pop...
@waqasazmat81 6 ай бұрын
Hey can you go over the connections you made with the charger? I have a charger that lipo, Lion and Nickel batteries (R/C charger). Just wanted information on how to set up the connection. Thanks for posting this video!
@eduardoumonteiro Жыл бұрын
Hello, first of all thanks for your videos. They are very well done. I have some questions / suggestions. I believe the battery is similar to model S battery perhaps with less cells (I didn't count them on the video) The variation on charging it might have be due to temperature variations at night, lithium shouldn't be charge with low temperature
@electrojessy4270 3 жыл бұрын
Does the bms of tesla drain the batterys to 0v ore are the cells self draining ( little heaters )
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
1st problem is just 0v for so long, second is 888 heaters :P
@digital-experiance2390 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the video. I have myself some tesla modules but managed to tear the rippon cable near the plug. Do you know what type of plugs are used on the ribbon cable. I plan to resolder it to the cable. The plug itself is broken to :-o It would be a shame if the block got wasted because of my clumsiness.
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
You just run a wire, it's a few minute fix if you have the right tools.
@digital-experiance2390 3 жыл бұрын
@@HBPowerwall I have tried that and the plug meldet and now won't plug in. I am unable to find those plugs. You do need the ribbon cable on the dead module, don't you :-) I live in germany and the accu community is rather small over here. So there is not much participation in help.
@arilehtiniemi 3 жыл бұрын
Have you test to put battery packs to freezer (2 hours?) and when it is cold, try to charge after 30 minutes in room temperature?
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
I planed on it but lost interest.. Might revisit when i get more spare time
@s2kto2K 3 жыл бұрын
I bought a used Tesla module like this a while back. Instead of charging the entire battery I charge each individual cell group. It fully recover and continue to work til today. It's been so long but I think i pushed about 2 volts into each cell groups. Then slowly bring up the voltage back to 3. Once it's around 2.8 to 3 I let my Lipo charge take over and take it the rest of the way.
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for sharing, I plan on trying again !! Just need time to be able to really monitor the process.
@guywhoknows 2 жыл бұрын
A battery will always try to have a nominal charge. That's a voltage. The voltage is maintained by the amp (I) and cells together will try to equalise. If you take out two or so cells and put a new cell in there, it will drain out as the power will transfer to the other cells. In packs a common issue is reversed charge which occurs on the ends and in the middle. You have to have a nominal charge voltage and a charge current for any battery. Stale li can have 4.3v wake up, with a 1 amp current on the cell. (Not pack). It can take four hours to give the cell enough to start holding power. If you have a pack, this takes longer. Reversed battery cells should be removed. And the replacement from the same pack group. So you would have to strip the battery somewhat to do this. Remember kids you can't charge a battery below it cut-off. If you try the cells suck the power and fight for the power between them, so it will vanish. When charged, you will lose 70% capacity, and will need to cycle the pack, you should get around 50% after 6 cycles and it may slowly improve depending on the age, condition and use previously.
@cadplast2480 3 жыл бұрын
What is battery manufacturers plan when lithium batteries are dead? Possible to recycle the metals in them? Or is the lithium or cobalt consumed
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
Usually sell them to places like www.bigbattery.com/diypowerwalls where they recycle or reuse where possible
@Phantom-mk4kp Жыл бұрын
When its discharging can you not see the cause of the discharge with your Flir. Thinking that if one or 2 cells are responsible they would be warming up
@PetreAdrian 3 жыл бұрын
From my experience ... the cells are never getting activated if you dont push over 3v. At 1.5v and 0.2A for all that cells is not even enough to make a spark. Try pushing 3.3v at 2A ... thats almost 7W .... nothing will happen with 7W that can be considered really dangerous. And leave it for at least 24h. I would definitely try like this before putting them to sleep... they just are tooo beautiful to give up so fast. And watch it with a thermal camera, maybe you detect any “drainers”.
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
Thermal Camera is over heating doing a time lapse of the next video - go figure lol
@volkhen0 3 жыл бұрын
I wonder if it make sense to rebuild the packs with new or good used cells to be able to use Tesla’s BMS and app.
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
I desperately want to do this! I have to follow some local rules with battery storage so will make it hard, but not impossible
@volkhen0 3 жыл бұрын
@@HBPowerwall I guess using used Tesla modules is better way but more expensive because building a pack with cooling loops would not be easy. Cells are glued together... hard to do in DIY methods.
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
Issue with this unit --- it's sealed so even if you don't 'need cooling' you still need to be able to remove heat from inside the cabinet - more I think about it the MORE I really want to do something cool with it.. Upgrade cells & Capacity maybe an inverter & SCC stuffed in there?
@steveeddy6876 Жыл бұрын
Hmmmm how does the coolant circulate thru the battery? How do you know when the battery is overheating?
@HBPowerwall Жыл бұрын
coolant is pumped through the standard cooling system, thermal camera shows excess heat
@coachwarrenraven 2 жыл бұрын
Can you pull each cell out and test them and then replace them with used cells or new ones?
@HBPowerwall 2 жыл бұрын
I could ' BUT' wouldn't
@BatteryTestChannel 2 жыл бұрын
As expected, but thanks for trying! I have noticed that the newer FLIR software versions have removed the time lapse features that used to be available. In case your current version doesn’t have it, using an older device with an older version can give you time-lapse. FYI!
@HBPowerwall 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the info! I can time lapse with this one but it drops out every 30 seconds, don't know if that's the port on my iphone or the Flir is just old.
@BatteryTestChannel 2 жыл бұрын
@@HBPowerwall Yea I had the version you have and it started being unpredictable, so I upgraded to the new FLIR pro. Despite the name and cost, it’s not all that reliable. The battery life is just as bad, and the frame rate and quality frequently changes for no reason. Not impressed.
@HBPowerwall 2 жыл бұрын
I paid 100 bucks aud for this one on ebay and that was like 4 years ago so stupid good purchase
@HBPowerwall 2 жыл бұрын
Yeh built to a price.
@Lbrepairs Жыл бұрын
Love your videos. Do you know a trick of replacing a broken Fuse wire from cell to the board on tesla battery module?
@HBPowerwall Жыл бұрын
just solder one is what I've done..
@Lbrepairs Жыл бұрын
@@HBPowerwall ive tried to solder it but doesn't stick because buss bar on it is made of aluminum. What flux and solder do you use?
@HBPowerwall Жыл бұрын
AMtech Flux, GOOD solder can't remember brand & Hacko Iron -
@jimmeade2976 2 жыл бұрын
Just curious ... when the voltage drops after turning off the charger, where is the energy going to? Is there an unknown load on the batteries?
@HBPowerwall 2 жыл бұрын
the cells are heating up thus dropping voltage.
@offgridwanabe 3 жыл бұрын
Can you segregate just one cell series and try try get just 4.1 volts? Maybe with luck there is a short somewhere but I too doubt it. Never seen that many cells all dead at one time but it is live and learn.
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
I'm just charging it with the X6 at the moment - she lives, but is on life support lol
@markymark2460 8 ай бұрын
Did you send the bms and dc to dc to Dave from Eevblog, if so do you know if he made a video of it?
@HBPowerwall 8 ай бұрын
I reached out but nothing came of it.. wanted top the whole thing in the back of the van and drive it down
@markymark2460 8 ай бұрын
@@HBPowerwall that sucks but you tried
@joeyglasser8717 3 жыл бұрын
That's too bad... I was hoping it would work again. What's your plan with the powerwall now?
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
They might live again yet.. I'm still learning (playing) with them :P Plan for the powerwall will naturally be fully customized Maybe for 100% offgrid
@chuxxsss 3 жыл бұрын
Bring them up slowly, doing the same here in Bendigo. Only got one pack up so far. So Peter the container you use, is that Australian registered now mate? The Power supply can change its last digit, it is pass of calibration. The power supply is calibrated at 21 degree mate.
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
At two days, I would have expected it to hold some charge. What do you mean is the container registered? Meter is defiantly out of calibration after 4 years
@peterduxbury927 2 жыл бұрын
I believe (also) that Tesla would use 444 x PROTECTED 18650 individual batteries. I have read that the small circuit goes bad (the small circle at the Anode - end tip). In analysing those batteries, please take away the Protection Circuit from the top of any battery - pulled from the Pack. Try and (safely) charge the battery without it please. It may not be the battery in itself, but a general battery protection circuit fault. I am so curious to know. It would also make a great video. Thanks.
@sarahdowe3142 6 ай бұрын
well done on your diagnostics, but where is the battery going to be dumped !
@HBPowerwall 6 ай бұрын
Years later they still sit in the shelf in my workshop :P
@Painas4everever 3 жыл бұрын
You should try the same test again but with a higher voltage per cell, maybe something like 2.5V/3.0V per cell and try to see if they hold this charge. I had my fair share with zero volts cells that have the exact same behavior as your test, when I tried lower than 2.5v/cell voltages. As soon as I started to use voltages that are a bit more "familiar to the cell" they picked up charge and hold it. It's a long shot but it might be worth it. If all goes wrong, at least you can strip the cells and repurpose them ( the good ones ).
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
lower than 2.5v and zero volt are two different issues, I don't think any cells in the battery are recoverable
@Painas4everever 3 жыл бұрын
@@HBPowerwall I had some Fujitsu Laptop batteries that were just like those ones, 0.000V (after fully stripped). Absolutely dead. I tried to make some parcial charges up to 2.0V and the same happened, they just started to drop all charge. As soon as I slowly charged them to 3V, they changed their enery absorption and starting behavind normally. The cells were 3000mAh inicially and after some years at 0.00v, 40% were still usable and still holded 2650 mAh roughly.
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
nice
@jlfh9 Жыл бұрын
That's right, a battery needs to be in normal levels to retain charge
@diorthotistm1621 2 жыл бұрын
Hi, thank you for showing me the inside of the Tesla powerwall. I do not really know exactly how they work, however I have been attempting to make my own lithium-ion power bank. It appears that it is safe to discharge all the batteries in series because they do not charge each other. However the only safe method to charge the cells, is to charge them individually. That means, it is likely that the powerwall charges each cell with 4.2 V, as opposed to the expected 30 volts. This is because charging cells in series is extremely dangerous, due to each cell charging at a slightly different rate. Eventually, one cell will become extremely high voltage causing it to explode.
@BattTube 2 жыл бұрын
This is very obvious and why he used a cell group voltage monitor. Discharging in series is not "safe" due to the possible difference in resistance or voltage between parallel groups. I don't think anyone who doesn't know this should be touching lithium-ion batteries. When charging typically you DO charge the pack at pack voltage and the BMS does the work of balancing each group in series, In some cases, it's slightly different depending on BMS and whether is just passive or active balancing methods (or both), Some balance while charging, Some balance while discharging (or both). Never build a lithium battery without a BMS and please do some more research before going ahead with your idea. It seems you don't fully understand what a BMS is, why its needed, and what it does and that could end up being a danger to yourself. HBPowerwall has been around and makes amazing videos about the subject, My suggestion is binge watch his channel then go ahead and build some packs. We've all been there and its awesome to see more join the space but some give it a bad name due to lack of safety.
@diorthotistm1621 2 жыл бұрын
@@BattTube actually, if you use diodes you can have several series packs in parallel. I was only commenting that he should not be charging with 30 volts, but 4.2 for each set of parallel.
@BattTube 2 жыл бұрын
@@diorthotistm1621 @Diorthotis TM Sorry, what are you talking about in the first part of your comment because that's not what this is about? But yes he could have charged each parallel group with 4.2v but it wasn't dangerous in his case to charge it at a pack level.
@diorthotistm1621 2 жыл бұрын
@@BattTube Actually, charging cells in series is very dangerous, because the cells charge at different rates. Say you have 3 cells in series charging with 12.6 volts. If all cells start the same voltage and charge at the same rate, theoretically it may not explode. Here is the danger. Say one cell is already 4.2 volts, another is 2 volts and the third is 3.5 volts, the total voltage is 9.7 volts, however, when you charge it with 12.6 volts, the 4.2 volt cells gets over charged. It may not explode for many years, but will eventually, especially at the 5 to 6 volt range.
@BattTube 2 жыл бұрын
@@diorthotistm1621 You just rephrased your first comment so you must have misunderstood. Let me rephrase my original comment so hopefully, you will understand. What you are stating is the most obvious thing and the very first thing you need to learn about when it comes to lithium batteries and i hope we all understand that. I'm explaining why that isn't an issue in this case and most cases with a properly built lithium battery. Do you know what a BMS is and what it does? Do you build and operate lithium packs without a BMS or balancing? Tesla wouldn't either, And in that case none of which you state would be an issue unless you had a faulty BMS. I'm not trying to be mean but I can clearly see the BMS in those packs, You can even see the balance leads going to the charge controller. The protections in the BMS would never allow a situation like that, Both main leads on a lithium battery will never both be directly attached to the battery. One will always go through the BMS where it can be switched to disconnect the battery. Now if all that fails you have fuses and fused nickel strips. Now if you just charged each group with a power supply or charger then your just bypassing any BMS protection potentially making it less safe than pack level charging through the BMS which offers high-temperature protection to prevent possible fires/explosions.
@gregstafford2155 3 жыл бұрын
Has the positive vents popped on the cells?
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
No, they have not - well at least going on the second video i released yesterday they were still intact
@alternativeenergychannel2289 Жыл бұрын
Very interesting experiment!! It should me a way to recover them from this kind of memory effect stage.. i can't understand why this is happening with lithium cells.. there is no internal short circuit and the chems inside the cells are the same why are they behaving in this way? The only thing that it can explain this is a chemical reaction inside the cells after they discharge that making them useless.. it will be interesting is this effect is reversible..
@moestrei 3 жыл бұрын
Check out Gruber Motor Company Tesla Model S battery (same as PowerWall). One cell can do it.
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
Big fan of Gruber :)
@ezequieladrianminniti6252 3 жыл бұрын
its drawing less amps because some of the batteries are getting fully charged and not needing any more current. there are some damaged that are short circuit-ed and draining the healthy ones.
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
perhaps
@rhiantaylor3446 3 жыл бұрын
I doubt that the cells are recoverable but I would not have expected them to start storing charge until you get each cell above 1v and better 2v. This might be better done accessing each cell bank separately but either way its the voltage that counts.
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
Was a good learning curve - more tests incoming
@bohabdestructo7489 3 жыл бұрын
I don't recommend that you do this, but I have had positive results using a very sketchy method. When I put about three times the rated voltage to a lithium 18650 for about two seconds for all it will suffer in amperage it will take a charge afterwards. Like I said I don't recommend it to anyone because of the possibility of cell rupture or fire. I have never tried it with a battery pack. Only individual cells.
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
you don't really need to do that if you have a variable power supply.. i've done the same thing back in the day
@tadlindelow5749 3 жыл бұрын
This is all new to me. But I was wondering, is the only reason that this unit failed because there was no input voltage while it was being stored? What is the actual useful life of a unit like this? Thanks, I thoroughly enjoyed both of your videos on this subject.
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
Yes, the SOC needs to be maintained.
@martenremi2 7 ай бұрын
Anyone know where can I get the cable to connect the charger to Tesla module please help thank u
@Milkybar3320011 3 жыл бұрын
If you had re-generated the batteries, any idea how much the life cycles or capacity would be reduced by?
@ursodermatt8809 3 жыл бұрын
probably reduced to 2%
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
50%, if they had of worked it would have been dangerous i thinks
@ArthurDentZaphodBeeb 3 жыл бұрын
So, how do you properly dispose of the battery?
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
Take it to a recycling center
@dtec30 3 жыл бұрын
so what info can we learn from the cooling system then? or any part of the build processes? to make power walls that much safer...
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
These are sealed - thats the biggest difference, Also small battery high amps is going to cause heat.. Build bigger batteries suited to your load so you don't need cooling seems to be my take away from it. But I do like the idea of them being sealed - but with used batteries that make maintenance impossible
@dtec30 3 жыл бұрын
@@HBPowerwall when you say sealed where does the water go ?
@kwinzman 3 жыл бұрын
@@dtec30 Heat exchanger?
@dtec30 3 жыл бұрын
@@kwinzman no meaning the battery is it only to the bms ie cpu
@dtec30 3 жыл бұрын
does it flow around the batteries?
@Nobody_Famous 3 жыл бұрын
Make a nice case for your next project though 🤔
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
My idea list is bigger than my wallet!!! I have so many ideas
@woodrunner51 3 жыл бұрын
I was recycling some laptop batteries the other day, i had about 30 of them at 0 volts, and just because i could, i tried to charge them. Started okay, oltage was climbing at low amps. At one point it "breached". Voltage started dropping. What i did then is added some extra amps to get 1-2V, for about 2-3 mins. Then i disconnected the charger and disconnected the cells from each other. fewe hours later i measured the cell voltages and some were 0 volts, others kept some voltage. A fewe that had the highest voltage are currently holding 4 Volts. So maaaybe some of the cells in there are still good? they are all the same in that powerwall, but maybe?
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
I could only hope, but all being the same age & situation they are all dangerous to use. I did another test here - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/pqpjrZSly7audHU.html
@Danny-pp8xz 3 жыл бұрын
how are the modules build like 6s 20p?
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
6S74P
@lifeai1889 3 жыл бұрын
can you rebuild it with recycled batteries?
@DIYSolarEnergy 3 жыл бұрын
It would be way too hard to get the out cells in that case and or replace them.. just not worth it.
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
easier to just buy new tesla modules
@DIYSolarEnergy 3 жыл бұрын
@@HBPowerwall yep!
@bluetonight17 3 жыл бұрын
i must use a minimum 3v across the batteries. and you need to push about 1.5 amps to get them to try to take a charge. they will never take a charge in the state that they are in like that. if you place your voltage a 4.2 Volts and set the current to at least 1.5A 2A may give it a better shot, then try again and they will take a charge.
@Swenser 11 ай бұрын
Id be playing outside for starters. Accidents happen. An outside explosion would be nicer. Good you did eventually
@HBPowerwall 11 ай бұрын
It's kinda outside... no where near my home so acceptable losses
@Heike73 3 жыл бұрын
Fyi, I had a 110A cell (of 55 pcs of 18650) and I had to use about 5A at 3 volt for about 12 hours. So I think you really should try more Amp over longer time.
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
Will do!
@5885ronny 3 жыл бұрын
Mein Abo hast du 😊😊😊
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the sub..
@5885ronny 3 жыл бұрын
@@HBPowerwall Abo 👍😊
@Riddhi42069 3 жыл бұрын
i think their charging voltage is needed to be atleast over/equals to nominal voltage _ to charge them up again
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
Trying that now..
@grumpy3517 3 жыл бұрын
According to my experience: stripping a Tesla module by filling an appropriately sized plastic tote with maybe 15mm high of acetone, placing the module and closing the lid. Leave at least overnight. Good luck!
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
Great tip, thank-you
@stevec2196 3 жыл бұрын
How did it get down to zero in the first place, shouldn't the BMS have prevented that?
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
Probably the parasitic load of the bms that caused it
@ihateemael 3 жыл бұрын
lithium cells develop metal dendrites growing internally shorting the cell.
@helixx23 3 жыл бұрын
even ten or more of these dead cells will pull everything done like that
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
Need more than 10 to do it that quick! And they would be smoking hot, very easy to see with thermal camera
@gadget7894 3 жыл бұрын
@@HBPowerwall so as there are no real 'hotspots' within the cells, we thinking that its NOT isolated to a number of cells bringing the whole bank voltage down, but instead its many/all of them ? what would make all/most of them fail like this ??
@Hunter_Bidens_Crackpipe_ 3 жыл бұрын
@@gadget7894 Sitting at 0 volts, maybe?
@Grandassets 3 жыл бұрын
I am a Ham radio Op so I play alot LOL I got (2) toyota prius packs (60-ish batteries at 7.2v 7.5ah) one whole pack is like 300V they come in that was at zero too, I have gotten them from free to $30 per pack, looked like a dead short somewhere, they go into some funny sleep mode if they sit a long time and ya have to wake them up, I kind of did that maybe faster than I should have but it worked, saved all of them out of what everyone else thought was a dead pack, yes they heat up yes they expand a little LOL it didnt seem to matter in the end! took the first two batteries out hooked them in (S) for 14.4 and ran a hard fast 19v 1amp across it for 15 seconds, then hooked it to a charger and brought them up to 16.5V+ for two hours and absorption phase of 15.2 for a few hours, then a float phase? LI batteries dont really use or need a float but I thought it was a good idea at the time anyway for a few hours and let them sit for a week and cycle them a few times after that, a month later all were still sitting at over 15v so 5 year old batteries almost as good as new (maybe 90+% but good enough for projects) I soldered some wires into a dead dewalt battery so I could use and test them on a 14.4 drill, LOL dont laugh I have been using that drill for 3 months now without having to charge it! facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10218755451738228&set=pb.1257908328.-2207520000..&type=3
@terrya6486 3 жыл бұрын
Bricked all the way. But you had to try. Now where do you take them to be recycled?
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
I'm not done yet.. day or two before the next attempt :) Got the battery to 22v !!!!!!!
@terrya6486 3 жыл бұрын
@@HBPowerwall New got it to 22 V and there's no charger on it?
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
@@terrya6486 iCharger
@gacherumburu9958 3 жыл бұрын
👍
@ebenwaterman5858 3 жыл бұрын
Those power walls can't be stored long term. The parasitic electronic loads drain them. There needs to be a Mains switch that completely disconnects the cells from the support electronics. Keep that in mind when you design your own system. :)
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the info
@randacnam7321 3 жыл бұрын
And the factory electronics would brick it anyway without an internet connection, as they only work iffen they can contact the mothership.
@ebenwaterman5858 3 жыл бұрын
@@randacnam7321 Really? Wow them ***holes.
@randacnam7321 3 жыл бұрын
@@ebenwaterman5858 Tesla Powerwalls only work with an internet connection. If that quits for over 48 to 72 hours, the Powerwall shuts down until internet is restored. They claim it is for real time adjustments to the state of charge limits to maximize battery life (the Powerwall battery has a real capacity of 17kWhr to 19kWhr and the electronics adjust which 10kWhr of that is used), which is rubbish as there is no way a decent cell chemistry needs such tweaks more than once a month or so. It is really because the Powerwalls are being used as real world test laboratories for seeing how batteries perform under all manner of conditions.
@ebenwaterman5858 3 жыл бұрын
@@randacnam7321 Wow! That's worse than Windows or an iphone. This is good info for everybody. Thanx :)
@kameljoe21 3 жыл бұрын
What I want to know what was the reason why they went dead. What is the power draw from the powerwall?
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
Parasitic load from the BMS/electronics over years
@kameljoe21 3 жыл бұрын
@@HBPowerwall So the bms did not shut down the battery. Which is odds cause I thought that is what they were suppose to do. I did not see any other connections to the battery that might have drawn the power unless the bms its self is the one at fault. I wonder if you could make a small battery that could allow the unit to turn on and maybe try and find the fault or something along that line. I also wonder if it would still work if one could say install their own battery bank and what good a bricked unit like this could do instead of tossing them
@BobHannent 3 жыл бұрын
Yes, not unexpected. One thing though, the icharger has a battery conditioning mode which was designed for FLA batteries. It boosts then relaxes and boosts and relaxes, probably fruitless but might be a demonstration of that function?
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
I will look into that..
@BobHannent 3 жыл бұрын
@@HBPowerwall I checked, it's called "Reflex" charging, could do something, that "something" might be starting a fire, but would prove it does or doesn't work on Lithium as it's supposed to work on Pb or Ni
@MediaSLSecondLife 3 жыл бұрын
unbelievable 😜
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
Ya sound like my wife lol
@landonferguson7282 3 жыл бұрын
Was expecting you to give it 2.5 volts per cell, and see if it holds a charge at its minimum cycle voltage.
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
Could have cooked eggs on it lol Tried 1v per cell..
@awesomusmaximus3766 3 жыл бұрын
Those batt's won't accept charge until you go over 2.5V per cell hold it at 3 V if you can for an hour see if that works
@paulbarrette2557 3 жыл бұрын
As requested... smashed!
@scottleggejr 3 жыл бұрын
Combo vid with the hydraulic press channel!!! 😂
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
HAHHA - that would actually be cool i thinks!
@netnael.m 3 жыл бұрын
I did charge a ded tesla battery to 4.2v per cell and it hold it for a while and got down to 3.85v per cell so you should try to charge it to 100% capacity if it got hot during charging its ded
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
I've tried 3 time now - this was my third try kzfaq.info/get/bejne/pqpjrZSly7audHU.html
@dalecostich8794 3 жыл бұрын
take out a handfull of batts and charge them with a automatic ebay recovery charger...see if they get hot?
@JeffSmith03 3 жыл бұрын
Too bad it wasn't cared for back when it was fresh. I'm wondering now if it was stored in extreme environment like heat or flood as well.
@toneault7499 3 жыл бұрын
fyi I'm playing around with a digy meter 6 digit after the point. only to show if batts are going down or holding when building a battery . i might go to 8 digits its only a reference. to find out were the batts are going ..i check and charge all cells as per . then leave for 24hours and so far the batts do as the meter said.
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
I so want a higher resolution multimeter but this one was 60bucks from Banggood years ago lol it's done the job up till now
@SuperBrainAK 3 жыл бұрын
dang! I was rooting for it to be ok, but the chemicals they used probably totally degraded and shorted across the dielectric. I have revived many batteries and if they are going to work they come right back up to 2.5-3v almost immediately with a 1/20C rate. But it looks like for high eneregy applications the chemicals are much less stable and really degrade if not in the proper voltage range. anyway cheers mate!! maybe all the other electronics are good and you can upgrade your powerwall with them!
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
I think they are Junk but trying another test now to see what happens, I want to make a DIY Powerwall.. like a real one lol
@SuperBrainAK 3 жыл бұрын
@@HBPowerwall cool, hey your powerwall is well built. Batrium is a good setup
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
Kinda, few things I could have done better.. too much effort to change it now tho
@mteca5093 3 жыл бұрын
I was able to restore some with a desulphator charger..it spiked the voltages between 2 and 4 volts . It woke some 0 volt cella from 5 year old laptop
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
but were the cells zero volts....? not 0.1v?
@mteca5093 3 жыл бұрын
@@HBPowerwall they were 0.00,, try spiking the voltage to wake them up... it was only 1 amp also
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
ok cool!! I just spiked these ones :P
@melovescotch 3 жыл бұрын
Obviously there some heaters, why aren't you forcing a charge, then pull each cell bond wire fuse. then let it sit, heaters will discharge.. later measure each cell voltage, ones that hold a charge you wire back up to the collector plates.
@ursodermatt8809 3 жыл бұрын
obviously very likely all cells are heaters now.
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
Current testing says 444 heaters, but I've said too much - stay tuned
@paulwood2329 3 жыл бұрын
Other viewers watching are right. I'm betting not all the batteries are bad. The bad ones are draining the good ones.
@korishan 3 жыл бұрын
Once you get these batteries working, and putting it all back together in the casing, you can send the whole lot to me 🤣🤣😜😜
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
Would in a heart beat if you were local.
@korishan 3 жыл бұрын
@@HBPowerwall LOL 😎
@russellgilchrist3951 3 жыл бұрын
Could it be that a couple of cells are dead and they are draining the power off the good cells, or are their too many dead cells that’s is why the good cells drop very quickly?
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
I'm sure they are all dead, but comments section has given me some more ideas..
@stevenlouis1024 3 жыл бұрын
Pulse width modulation
@joelshopefullyhelpfulvideo3010 3 жыл бұрын
Isolate a few cells by removing the fuse material sheet and test a few to see, That’s an enormous amount of cells to be all unrevivable. Something is draining them from each group
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
Tests have been done about 30 hours till release :)
@Riddhi42069 3 жыл бұрын
why no pick a single cell out of the pack _ and test that typical charging voltage ??? at 1/2C rate charging
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
That will be the last thing I try.
@dorhocyn3 Жыл бұрын
Don’t you need to pull that clear plastic cover in order to actually get a true reading with the IR camera? I just saw an HVAC training session involving something like that.
@HBPowerwall Жыл бұрын
ideally you pull everything off, but you have to do what it practical
@scottleggejr 3 жыл бұрын
Throw it through a "DESULFATE" mode and see what happens 😂
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
HAHA Didn't even consider that, have to top off with dehydrated water first..
@scoobyblu5815 3 жыл бұрын
I think the best for this battery is removing each cell cause there's going be non repairable cells dragging the good ones down , and 10x opus chargers + and a lot of work = rebuild
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
Won't rebuild but really want to work out what went wrong.
@jonkelley6052 3 жыл бұрын
The wall was hotter then the battery. Those things aren't charged like that normaly are they? Seams like trying to fill a swimming pool with a drinking fountain. If they weren't getting hot and actually the voltage was rising, why stop. One things for sure, it would take like 2 weeks to fully charge like that. I charge 18650 10s packs with a 42 volt 4 amp smart charger. I don't know much about it, but I find it hard to believe it's just all going away generating heat.
@HBPowerwall 3 жыл бұрын
not all going away but 99% of it is gone and hours later it was still producing heat - cells are internally shorting causing them to head.. Left charging the acclimated heat would go into thermal runaway ending badly..
@pangrac1 9 ай бұрын
Why this battery failed in the first place? What is the reason? 🤔
@HBPowerwall 9 ай бұрын
Was left in a Tesla Powerwall for many years with out maintance charging.
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