The modlist is: Domis scout animations Kylul's animation packs except sniper Skeleton hotel's particle packs Hexhud Improved cross hair pack

always found it weird how valve had a "turret phase" in the orange box era. all 3 games in it featured turrets somewhat prominently

Really good video, especially the points about Medic. I've honestly never had an issue with Medic being the only healer just because I find his core gameplay loop so damn enjoyable, but the lack of diversity relative to games like Overwatch is definitely one of TF2's shortcomings. None of his unlocks deviate from the whole "point and hold your heal beam at the best player on your team" shtick and I feel like there was a lot of lost potential in interesting healing mechanics because of it. Always liked those ideas of Engineer taking a portable dispenser around for quick in the moment area of effect healing but don't think we'll be seeing something like that anytime soon. Also, I really agree with your point that it's good you never feel like you have to pick a certain class in TF2 (obviously there are optimal picks in certain situations) except when it comes to Medic. Because he has a monopoly on healing and you are at such a severe disadvantage if the enemy team has one and you don't, I usually feel obliged to swap to Medic because of the impending steamroll if I don't. Very lame. Also every joke in this video landed so damn well, had me giggling like a little girl. Awesome stuff.

"if i had never confronted my aunt clara about her drinking problem she never would have started meth" sent me to the moon

Honestly, really interesting point about the taunts offering some sort of "reprieve" for the newer players, though I would argue this extends more to the sillier nature of TF2 in general. When I first picked up this game in the middle of 2020, my first game was on 2fort, and I was getting absolutely shitstomped. But then, a few of the other team decided to start a heavy boxing ring in the sewers, and suddenly the entire server was in the sewers taunting as two heavies tried to beat each other up with their fists. It's still one of my favorite memories of TF2 today, and it's what convinced me to give this game another shot. As for where the taunts come in, their inherently goofy nature definitely contributes heavily to the friendlier tone of TF2, but I would argue that taunts by themself aren't enough. Looking at Fortnite, they have these similar dances and an even goofier premise, yet they have no where near the same type of playerbase. And maybe that's just because of the kind of people who play these games: most shooters these days are competitive af, and naturally that'll carry over to Fortnite. But I feel like there's a missing part to why taunts are so effective in TF2 yet not in other games.

team fortress is real

I think there's a conflict between "make the game not require you to always pick a certain class" and "make every class extremely unique". The more distinct you make a class, the more likely you are to introduce a source of power that outshines every other option. And the more likely you are to produce a threat that will require a specific response from the other team. In either case, a team without the powerful class will probably lose. And a team without the appropriate counter will also lose. Medic is extremely unique among the TF2 classes. His entire focus is on healing and buffing his team-mates, something no other class focuses on. This makes playing Medic feel wildly different to playing any other class. But his unique focus also makes him vastly more valuable than any other class. The very principle that you praised earlier in the video, is the cause of Medic's dominance in the metagame. I don't think there's a solution to this problem. I think it ultimately comes down to where your priorities lie, as a designer. Do you value making as many options viable as possible? Or do you value making as many distinct options as possible? Where on the spectrum do you fall? The extreme end of viable options is the modern shooter landscape, with its hundreds of functionally interchangeable guns. And the extreme of distinction is Rock, Paper, Scissors, where every option is so distinct that it only has one viable counter. Pick your priorities - no matter what, you won't please everyone.

This has been the first team fortress 2 video that I have watched in a number of weeks that I actually enjoyed watching, instead of it just being brain rot that I listen to while finishing my breakfast. Good on you, thanks for making a good video :3

team fortress is fake

HL alyx was sick man I don't know what you mean in that quick bit. Easily the best vr game I've played.

Very good video. I've always felt a spiritual successor to tf2 by a different and more caring company would be better than a valve-made TF3 or TF2 Source 2.

Loved the video! However I very much disagree with the medic part (I might be biased tho, being a medic main myself). I don't think the over-reliance on medics is a bad thing, combos are a great consequence of it, and that balances the fact medic can't survive on his own. If the rest of the classes would be consistently self-sufficient, nobody would take care of medics. And a big argument you make is that medic is boring, which is very subjective, although I think more variety would be beneficial for sure. But this needs to be done carefully, because if you give medic too much independence, you can create by far the most broken class.

to make tf3, you would need as much dedication as valve did 20 years ago

Pyro got his license permanently revoked after the sonic all-star racing transformer incident.

everything else aside, thank you so much for using the chapters feature to show what music you used when, that's really cool and I wish more people would do it

Such a great video, I LOVE all the little gags and side comments throughout. Also, Imma need that custom folder...

24:51 As a Sniper Main who likes The Coffin of Andy and Ley Ley I agree that I am the worst person on the planet and must swiftly be executed via comically large boulder.

Another banger video that makes me feel like I'm listening to the ramblings of a sociopath.

3:26 I think it's strange that I completely loved Half-Life Alyx (Best game I played in 2020), but am still wholeheartedly hoping they don't make another VR game

12:16 "it's just cool crazy nonsense, cuz crazy nonsense is cool" 🗣🔥🔥

I like the coffin of andy and leyley for the patricidal cannibalism

I need a list of the mods that this guy uses

Great video! I especially commend you how good the writing is, its really snappy and precise, whilst remaining very enjoyable and funny.

I love the coffin of Andy and Leyley

That is a HELL of a venn diagram and i didn't need to be called out like that today

This whole video is so well executed, real quick tip though the advanced camera gmod addon lets you keep the fov consistent even if you're on the physgun, just kinda noticed alot of empty space during the segments

Love this style of editing, the commentary is great and the quick stingers are funny

It's very interesting to hear a TF2 player's perspective on what they would change on a future team fortress game, thanks for making the video! I'm a long time team fortress player, and worked on some past fortress mod projects (like "Fortress Forever). You hit on a disturbingly high number of things that I'm trying to address in the team fortress inspired game I've been working on over the past few years (you must be my team fortress spirit animal). It definitely emphasizes the goofy 'fun' side of TFC/TF2, and some monday night combat sprinkled in. Gotten a lot of positive reviews from playtesters so far - If you are interested in a future playtest I'd love to get your feedback! Funny you mention roblox as I chose roblox as the platform to develop on due to the built in playerbase/infrastructure, f2p etc. Otherwise, looking forward to future videos. Cheers.

This is one of the best criticism on TF2 and Shooters in general, really helps to make something better REALLY like it

tf3 with a new cast of classes and its tutorial is basically the tf2 mercs’ recorded tutorial videos

Love the fighting game references, I forgot how unfinished Vanilla SF4 Vega was until you showed him lol

10:12 You just described the TF2 player base

This is actually so great! You're really underrated, Hope to see more bangers 🗣:fire: ( the cut off joke goes hard)

Loved this video. Really insightful and interesting takes on TF2 and game design in general. I've got a couple things to add: 1) RE: Classes and reducing class pool. I do actually like this idea, but it has a few problems in practice. You can look at Darktide as an example: There are four classes in that game, but each class has 3 "builds" that can be mixed between depending on which perks you pick up in the perk tree. This means there are a lot of builds available for small teams, but also means that you can't understand what your teammates are doing at a glance. When you see a soldier's silhouette, you know it's a soldier and what items he might have. When you see "frontline class" you have no idea if he's got a rocket launcher or a flamethrower until he pulls it out. I think the solution to this is to have each weapon give some difference to the character's silhouette. For example, equipping a shotgun might put a bandolier on your character, and a flamethrower might put a gas tank on the character's back (that is visible from the front) etc. You might say to have no classes at all; have a single character that can equip every item and just let players go nuts. That's possible, but I think there are weapons you want to stop being used in combination. If everyone can equip anything then soon enough you'll end up with there only being 2 or 3 viable loadouts. To me, 4 classes seems pretty good (Healer, Assassin, Tank, Fighter). 2) RE: Medic. I think I totally agree with you. We can all agree that old maps are outdated with choke points and that certain changes were for the better, but Medic is kind of stuck in a rut as a side effect of this era of the game. Having more """mediguns""" that emulate OW healers (for example) would be a really cool way to mix medic up. Hell, the idea that mediguns *need* an uber is outdated. Why not move the crossbow to the medigun slot? It'd make it an actual tradeoff to take and give the syringe guns some time in the sun again. 3) RE: Sniper. Also agreed. The argument isn't really with Sniper as a class, but with sniping as a playstyle. In TF2 itself the only real solution is maybe to hit all sniper melee weapons with -50% damage, and maybe put a laser down where he's aiming. This would encourage the sniper to stick with his team to stay safe, or he can snipe at a weird angle to get a few picks but be extremely vulnerable when run down. 4) RE: Catering to casuals. Always important, I think this is where Valve really dropped the ball with TF2. The comp update offered a lot of things to the comp scene and nothing to the casual scene - in fact, it took things away from them. That's when I stopped playing habiutally; but I can say if they brought back quickplay in its old form I'd be playing TF2 again like it was 2013. Anyway, great video. You've got a sub from me. Looking forward to your videos on movement and map design.

make a 2h video on the aerodynamics of farting

21:25 And real life! Fun fact, in war, snipers are killed or tortured rather than captured more often than other troops. This is because soldiers rather dislike being shot by someone they can't fight back against. Imagine how awful snipers must be, that they can make an intrinsically enjoyable activity such as war become unfun.

This mofo really showed MNC and instantly made me cry in despair for a decent team based shooter. That game was so good.

Probably the best TF2 video I’ve seen lately. The timing couldn’t have been better.

I’m okay if you don’t like sniper but I don’t like that you didn’t really add a fix or change for him to work within TF2.

I think the dragons fury is an amazing development for pyro and definitely not like the huo long heater. Also the phlog/scorch shot isnt a problem, the scorch shot is the problem. The phlog is extremely weak and basically dependent on the fact that the scorch shot is overpowered. The exception is when you give them a pocket medic, in which case the phlog actually does become the problem. But in casual this is pretty rare so as far as the "phlog/scorch shot combo is a problem" goes i don't think that quite captures the situation.

The point about not being able to make friends random queuing does not apply to Sydney servers because there's only like, 3 people in NZ, and 14 in Australia

Great video, Venn diagram too accurate. 10/10

great video editing, keep it up :D

with snipers you either have to make them like real snipers meaning wind and bullet drop as well as weather conditions can affect bullets and require a spotter or you make them easy to use with just light bullet drop or make people really fast

That ven-diagram is so on point lmao

I fucking love your style of humour. Quick outta box lines. Also on a game I feel nostalgic about, you my fellow human, gained a new subscriber.

Cool guy, like your channel. Funny jokes and good info. Fun to listen to and I actively watched the whole thing, no tabbing out!

I liked this video a lot. I think comparing TF2 to modern games was extremely valuable in developing your point and taking an introspective look into the community as a whole isn’t talked about with as much care as you put into it. Well done.

One sniper """"""fix"""""" I've had knocking around in this empty head of mine is for uncharged body shots to work as normal at all ranges uncharged headshots to deal 112 damage (about 75% of current headshot damage) with 48 damage's worth of bleed Fully charged headshots to deal 75% of remaining HP or a flat 115, whichever is greater, with bleed damage of (450-(75% or 115 damage)) Charged body shots deal 112 bleed damage/48 base damage when the target is far away, but when close, the ratio of bleed/damage reverses until it's 112 damage/48 bleed Also, focus/charge decreases after an undetermined amount of time once it fully charges The Bleed damage wouldn't be able to be removed from getting health of any kind, though it still does heal you. The point of this is for people to have at least a decent chance of getting close to the sniper instead of being instantly deleted as soon as he sees you.

i think one of the scariest obstacles to making a tf2 successor is tf2 itself. so many charged expectations. tf2 feels like a game that was made because its creators wanted a game like that. any game shackled by the expectations of what a tf2-like shooter should be probably has even less chance to be something great, but paradoxically has less opportunities for success by being something too different. indie games struggle with this even more. many indie passion projects are all-or-nothing gambles. you desperately want people to bite the hook, but not at the cost of being shallow or derivative or fizzling out. why risk a market that's already cornered? its like starting a fire in a blizzard. and im all too familiar with that sentence that comes after you fail: "the game is fun but no one's online so i don't play it." oh, that one hurts every time.

the freaking dustbowl meme got me lol

I think the biggest lesson is Hitscan should do lower damage then Projectiles. The slower a projectile is the infinitely harder it becomes to hit and in turn deal damage with. Soldier and Demo naturally have some of the highest damage in the game because of this with the caveat they can hurt themselves as well. The Sniper's bows are fine and the Medic's Crossbow are fine because you can attempt to evade them making it an fight both players participate in, but the actual Sniper Rifles can 1-shot where the fight comes down entirely to the Sniper's "skill", the basic skill of aim and fire that everyone uses without any tracking or prediction other weapons require. Even worse is it is equally effective at every range being able to 1-shot or finish off most classes with ease. Since the game is Objective focused and players need to move to X point to win this removes the only "downsides" to Sniper Rifles since a well positioned Sniper can duck into cover between shots means no weapons are effective against it that aren't equally effective against everyone else. If TF3 focuses on making him a Bowman it also comes with the benefit that Bows are more unique and easier to give gimmicks to including less velocity and different arcs making him actually require skill greater then other classes justifying the damage. All while making cheating harder with him on top of this. Everyone wins.

When it comes to medics, Dirty Bomb had my favorite versions of medics. Aura had a heal station that created a zone of constant healing, Sawbonez threw large healing packs, Phoenix (my favorite) could charge up bursts of healing and can revive themselves if not gibbed, and Sparks threw out small healing packs and had a revive gun that can deal large amounts of damage (it was nerfed a couple of times).

18:27 killed me i giggled outloud while i was stretching

I'm very glad i found your channel!

I love the writing, your videos are great fun

24:53 Based. Honestly i'm flabbergasted at how many people convinced themselves that trash is good all because twitter people were hating on it.

So how is your Aunt handling Math? She might find calculus a bit difficult at first but I believe she will fight it through. Thanks to you she is not an alcoholic any more

this is so good that its going in my music playlist so when i shuffle listening to my endless soup one day ill watch an actually good video again

This would have been a good video were it not for two glaring faults: 1. the Sniper Rifle from Halo (before Halo 4) is possibly the most well balanced sniper rifle in any modern FPS series. Relatively low ammo count, you actually have to reload, the massive smoke trail and incredibly loud gunshot sounds revealing your location to everyone on the map, and the fact that only 1 or 2 spawn on any given map at one time, and have a lengthy respawn time in between uses. 2. I decoded all of the Wingdings 2 font you put on screen and felt very bamboozled, one might even say I felt betrayed. 9/10 video I hate your guts now

What is the Patriot's Plinker? Have I been Graggle Simpson'd?

While it does need stating... apparently that water is wet. That's what so many modern TF2 videos say. I clicked this one expecting the same but it actually held my attention up from start to finish. Good points and well put together

I like the zooms where you show an odd moment in the gameplay

God the changed logo in the middle of it was a mental flashbang

I think a good example of a well designed medic class is the Planetside 2 medic. The ways they themselves become a more powerful combat threat also helps their nearby allies. Using the regen field on themselves to get quick recoveries in CQC also heals surrounding teammates. Using the shield booster defensively also makes the position they hold more defensible for their allies. They are generally going to be generalists that will lose most engagements against a specialist in any scenario so they are highly incentivized to tag along with their team but aren't useless if they get separated. They ultimately work well because even when they act purely within their own self interest they help their team, they would have to actively avoid helping their team to not be a decent support. In comparison the TF2 medic you just follow your teammates around and give them health so they can have fun, cant even play with your nerf gun without your teammates screaming at you. Of course there are the clinically insane healsluts who actually do enjoy this, but looking at the team composition of the average game, they aren't many enough.

My problem with spreading the healing out of medic: He would be a waste of a slot (as you NEED to nerf him if you want other major healing sources) and tf2 would lose its major thing of choosing which fights to take or which to not take, like tf2 would become a mini-COD, OR he would be busted, as overheal is the most important thing of medic (which would REALLY distance it from uber, as you would overheal people A LOT more, and crit heals would be WAY more important).

the end is fucking genius, i even got an ad before the video ended

1:10 this bit had me so dead 💀

I was watchin this video in my tv and Im not logged in and I really liked it, so I was goin to subscribe through my cellphon and then I discovered that I was already subbed 💀💀

I am starting to believe this guy lives in an alternate universe, and just happens to upload to this one

Re: movement speed and weapon precision I have this theory that the clunkier/slower the player character is, the "worse" their weapons must be at snap shots. Mainly from experiences playing Tank games, and then trying out another game with similar movement but classic FPS aiming. In older quake like games, it was quite possible to dodge hitscan through pure speed, and you needed very good precision or a lot of splash damage to get at least some damage sometimes. As player characters slow down however, you still have high precision weapons fighting characters who can't really get out of the way. The exception tends to appear in Tank games, where it would be very strange for a big heavy turret to zip around like its made of plastic. This makes ambushes a pretty viable tactic, where you can get around the gun in a faster vehicle. TF2 is pretty similar in this, with damage fall off and its plethora of shotguns. You can reliably get hits at range with the shotgun, but you're not going to do a lot of damage until you get close, in which case both players can do a lot of damage, and move enough to cross a decent portion of their opponent's field of view. Two games that didn't do this are Crossout and Robocraft, games that let you assemble your own custom fighting machine with block like parts. Their default and most versatile weapons are machine guns, and they can aim practically as fast as you can move your mouse. Outside of rare exceptions everyone's movement is very car like, so doing anything except fighting head on means you expose your, usually, weaker sides. Neither are you really mobile enough to dodge the stream of hitscan projectiles, so the meta kinda became who can build the most damage resistant front, with layers of guns that all point forwards. Battlefield is also really weird with how they design tank mechanics, with their turrets being able to spin like a helicopter rotor. The big, slow, armored juggernaut, can 180 no scope blast you even if you try to sneak around them.

Really tore open a wound with MNC, there.

I hope you continue this

The points about medic say exactly what has been on my mind lately. I hate that if your team doesn't have a medic and the other team does, you HAVE to pick medic most of the time if you don't want to get shut down.

i can't believe that you're the first dude who mentioned community servers in the good way, thanks for telling this. all the times some crybabies is talking about "muh 24/7 2fort, rtd, uncletopia wah wah" but prefer sitting for 2-4 HOURS to connect for non-bot inflated server, than actually play the game on community servers. there is a lot of server on vanilla settings of the game, without rtd and with map rotations, BUT FOR SOME REASON people still hurting themself and wasting their time on valve servers. just because they cant scroll down and look on ready-for-play vanilla servers. its actually important to start telling people that playing on valve servers is not worth it, it will never will be fix or will be fix like for 2 weeks and then bots gonna start appear again, and play (or make themselfs) a community vanilla servers. tf2 for a long time already on the root of another "forgotten" valve games, like cs1.6, cs:source, ricochet, hl2deathmatch etc. it's basically only on community hands now (if we not mention hats and creats).

My favorite idea was to make Medic an insanely high damage melee character. His bonesaw is now a massive DPS chainsaw. This does infringe on other classes and kinda expands Medic's role too much, so there would have to be a lot of other changes, but I thought it was amusing regardless.

Holy shit I wasn't expecting Monday Night Combat at the start, thanks for instantly snapping me back to when I was 12.

Sniper also frustraights me because his design completely overtakes all map design. I love goofing on maps like Harvest and High Tower, but you really can’t make any fun and open arena maps cause you have to accommodate sniper. Snipers balance dictates map design above all else and that kind of blows. I can’t act like I have a solution, but just a problem I notice with the vlass

I really do think the taunts are what made me realized I love TF2, when I red and blu players doing the katzotski kick together and konga was so fascinating and cool seeing it for the first time

Who the fuck is Cassity?

As a game designer and a long-time TF2 fan, I agree that a sequel would be a great way to shake off some of the sticky design choices made in TF2. However, the game being so iconic will pose a HUGE issue if someone tries to succeed it with their own game. I think you underestimate the draw of TF2's characters. One of the biggest game companies in the world made Pixar-tier animations and yet TF2's characters are still more easily recognized in the gaming community. TF2 does have some design issues, but these issues are not severe enough to create a significant demand for a successor. Class-based FPS games are already a crowded market, and a TF2 successor would be trying to poach one of the most stubbornly loyal communities ever. TF2 is not a perfect game, but it's still too good and too iconic to beat. While TF2 does still have some outstandingly poor unlocks, it's relatively speaking the most balanced the unlock meta has ever been. Handing the keys of weapon balance to the community would be the biggest train wreck possible, just spend one minute going through the TF2 reddits and you will see a glimpse into the apocalyptic future of community balance. Even the youtube essayist scene come with some wack ideas. Specifically there's a huge tendency for inexperienced game designers to add complexity to controls without adding depth. And generally speaking, people have a poor understanding of why something feels unbalanced. Don't try to "fix" sniper by making Sniper "objectively bad" in close encounters. That would just be doubling down on the one-note nature of the character. I agree that just excluding Snipers entirely from FPS games is the more appropriate course of action going forward. If anything, I think TF2 Sniper needs damage fall off at very long distances. This way, map designers aren't scared to open up map designs. After I complete the games I am currently working on (in about a year), I am seriously planning to apply to Valve and request to work on TF2 full time. Of course with the way life works there's no guarantee it will happen, maybe Valve has given up on the franchise and won't hire new team members regardless of qualification or dedication. But if I do get on the team, I will try to get true major updates back with balance changes and new weapons. And if a big Team Fortress project is considered, I would advocate for a sequel over a source 2 port, because I think it's what the franchise needs.

omg is that some actual backscatter use in 2024? 😂

8:35 There is no conceivable way you randomly snuck in the “This attraction is great” animation into a video about team fortress 3.

great video + absolutely fantastic jokes

Please make a patriot's plinker guide, there are very few of these on youtube

Honestly I think you could probably pull off a TF3 with only 3 or 4 classes-flanker (Scout, Spy, Demoknight), frontliner (Soldier, Pyro, Demo, Heavy), and foundation (Engi, Medic). Everything else can be accomplished with very diverse loadout options.

I rewatch this video from time to time, and not only is it really funny, it is making me cook up some evil plans. Kinda wish making multiplayer games wasn't such a PITA (anti-cheat/deterrence, live-service expectations/upfront pricing, netcode, etc etc etc)

that gunshot after "laser pointer" scared the shit outta me for some reason lmao

Got mentally flashbanged from that intro with Monday Night Combat. I miss it

liked. Subbed. Commented. Excellent work lad.

Personally I'd implement a way for all players to heal teammates in a way that feels like rescuing them from death, and I'd like to find a way of rewarding the player more depending on how dramatic and difficult the save was.

you sir are a hidden gem, please make a video on the patriots plinker please please please

the yorick jumpscare made me jump while being scared

I just realised tf3 means no more of the nine classes we have today all new

"i will probably ever add anyone i've randomly queued with in any game" he has a point, but jokes on him, i found my best friend from the same city in random casual match of tf2

The coffin of andy and leyley comment actually made me look at my screen and feel offended. I just like the story.

Good points, and a very well made video to boot. On the subject of medic, some of the downsides you list are exactly the reason I main him. The fact that the most important guy on the team is somehow NOT the guy dealing the most damage should at least pique one's interest. The fun of playing medic is in managing the battle, in knowing how vulnerable and powerful you are, in constantly gauging a number of variables to determine the who, when, and where for every heal, push, retreat, and uber. Medic is useless alone, but indispensible in a team. I'm not getting kills - that's peasant work! I'm running the whole goddamn WAR here! I decide who lives and who dies! I am a GOD!

The flash at 0:32 paired eith you saying "not for any perverse reasons" I thought the scout on fire was a single frame of something, nope, it was just a scout on fire

The big thing TF2 picked up from an early start is, everything needs an answer. Rockets? Airblast. Spy? Mini sentries. Stickies? Quickiebomb Launcher. Adding a new weapon for a few years was just the devs going through abilities and picking out what didn't have a counter and then making a weapon with one.

Cooperative Tower 3