4:43 "This was staring at me from across the market hall of the gun show" "Our eyes met, i ran towards it in slow motion"

How could one not enjoy this joint exploration of the Baker? Thank you both!

A fascinating discussion, gentlemen, thank you very much. One of the things I found particularly interesting was your point about the standard military load being the most accurate. I tend to use the government military load in all my historical shooting (I don't have any flintlocks) because I am most interested in how those loads actually worked, but people always tell me I'm "wrong" to do that because lighter loads are "always" more accurate. Frankly, I haven't done much testing of those claims for the simple reason that I'm not as interested in maximizing my score as I am in trying to recreate historical results, but your point here was quite nice to see.

I spoke with Peter Dyson at Bisley a week or so back and yes they still will make a Baker rifle to order, and it's a year or more to wait for one from placing the order...

I was just thinking about this

Nice one Rob and Chap !

What a interesting and informative pair of video's well done guys a definate 5*****. I have owned a Dyson Baker Rifle for over 7 years, after overcoming a few initial problems which a local gun maker resolved for me I find it very accurate and shoot regularly once a month in between my other guns in MLAGB competition's which I am a member. Mostly shooting at 100mts using a .615 ball( moulded in a Jeff Tanner mould) .020th Chris Tanner patch soaked with liquid wonderlube over 65gns Swiss 2 also using Swiss ob (4f) priming powder I can usually score mid to high 80's on a PL7 target. I was lucky enough to purchase my rifle before the "Dyson" name was stamped on the barrel and when purchasing an original Kentucky rifle the dealer had a set of Baker period stamps to finish off the look. When attending Jeff Tanner's funeral a few years ago I met the chap that claimed he used to make Dyson's Baker barrels, sadly he has now retired.We have a guy in the MLAGB that purchased a Rifle Shoppe Baker assembled by them and purchased through the UK Rifle Shoppe agent at I might say a lot less money including shipping than my Baker. He had one similar problem to me in so much that his Baker was eating flints which my guy resolved for me. I use a tooth TeePee to block the flash hole when loading which prevents powder being forced out but allows air to escape. I find for target shooting running a piece of 4x2 down the barrel after every shot and cleaning the flash pan and hole minimises hang fires and flash in the pan's. Keep up the good work and more Baker vid's please.

1:26 regarding the rambling for an hour or so of two nerds, that’s why I’m here

The front sight on my Nock volunteer Baker is definitely lower than on your two reproductions. Thank you both to let us be virtually present at your on line get together.

0:37 - Wow! That black powder smoke is just not clearing away and has filled up the entire valley!

I really like your conversations. It's as interesting as your usual content, there is always something to learn.

Your films about the Baker rifle, and especially the series about paper cartridges, inspired me to search for sources, my own trials and experiments, I even managed to improve your "cartridge container" a little, so that you do not have to pull the string with your fingers :) I also tested Austrian jeger cartridges , brass and paper. And I am currently looking for the best solution for prepatched round balls. Thank you Rob for your work, thanks to this fascination I got through the most difficult period of my life :)

About Pedersoli working on the Baker: While they say that they are working on it, we sadly can never know. Pedersoli is much less focused on the historical accuracy of things and more on whether or not it fits into the disciplines and rules of European black powder shooting tournaments. When I asked them about it 2 years ago, they said they had to "experiment". A word that fills me with a bit of fear, considering how they have ruined the percussion Sharps. If however they do make a good Baker repro, my wallet will jump into their hands. It is such a beautiful rifle. Thank you so much for making these videos and informing people of these wonderful arms. Muzzleloading is the best. Can't wait to see a continuation of your video about the Volunteer rifle.

The chap

Enjoyed the chat, thanks! I also have an 1800 pattern Baker. The Rifle Shoppe did the build. There seem to be so few of their Baker rifles out there.

Great discussion, thanks Rob and Chap.

A very nice discussion. It was nice to be able to shoot early.It's one of my favorite Flintlock rifle.

Oh more loveliness for my Saturday morning listening and viewing

Excellent work gentlemen. Most informative. I think the trials of the Plunkett shot have much potential interest. I shall be in touch Rob about a method to ease your target manufacture for that job.

The rifle we want, the mustache we need.

Hi from Syracuse NY USA everyone thank you for sharing both videos

Just wanted to let you know I found your channel because " forgotten weapons" mentioned your work on his channel.

Rob I think you have an idea for a new video. You mentioned that since you’ve built your rifle you’ve come up with some new methods or gathered new methods about taking on a build. For the number of us that suddenly seem to have rifle shop kits on order, would you be able to do a rough video on that topic to point us in the right direction for some of these techniques?

I love the Sharpe's videos and the books

Talking about the interpretations of accuracy now versus then the one story in DeWitt Bailey's book that I find interesting is when they talk about the pattern. 1776 being able to shoot four out of five balls into a target no bigger than the brim of a hat at 400 yd

Fascinating , the bits of information that you came out with , I shall have to view this several times . Great job 👍🇬🇧

I throughly enjoyed the whole discussion! Then again, I am such a history and firearms nerd/geek/goof 😀 Thank you!

Video and discussion made me smile. Thank you both.

Finnish Brutality - Black Powder Edition

I've enjoyed this it's been alot of fun

Bloke on the range is the real deal. In fact, his videos on the Tikka Arctic in .308 inspired me to purchase one. I have an idea, I think it would be neat to see a old vs new "service rifle" between the Lee Endfield and "C19". Sorry, got carried away. Yes, Baker rifle. I'd be interested in a pedersoli version but I'm still figuring out a "first muzzleloader"

After shooting with Bloke, next stop Mssr le Chap!

really enjoyed this,just food for thought later on or maybe you already have but a video on how they mass produced these rifles before electricity to equip a army thanks.

Hey Rob, I spoke with Jeff at the Rifle Shoppe to order my second Baker and discussed the rifling. He said he ordered barrels through Colerain because of the typically shorter wait time. I explained that I didn't mind the 6 month wait and now have a Baker rifle kit on order that will arrive with a Rice made barrel with 1 in 120" twist and seven square bottom grooves. I also spoke with him about the front sight and after explaining to me that, despite being good friends he and de Witt Bailey have differing opinions about certain Baker aspects, said the could accommodate me with a front sight matching the ordnance patterns. Haven't decided which route to go on this point though as he expressed concerns about sighting it in to the appropriate distances. Just thought I'd let you know.

Interesting discussions as ever, chaps - but the Macerone cartridge patch and tube? Na.. I think you should seriously ditch any reference to it. His work was a treatise on arming the civilian populace of England and written/published in 1832. He describes the THEN current practice of loading with loose patched ball and separate powder and describes his invention as being able to be loaded with, "...at least the same precision and efficiency as by the PRESENT inconvenient practice." And we're talking about the current method being a trained Rifleman pouring from a copper flask hung about his neck with a 3½ dram spout that measures when tipped, and then taking greased patched ball from the ball-pouch and ramming home. Bet there's not much difference in timing. An experiment perhaps (if not done already!)? Rob - Have you tried using the 22-to-the-pound with patch inside the cartridge itself? As for packaging of these cartridges as queried by 'The Chap'. Cartridges came in paper parcels of 10, tied with string. How that would work with Macerone's configuration, is anyones guess. Notes on rifle ammo by Colonel Norcott, memorandum to Horseguards, 1816: "The loose Balls covered with greased rags were kept in the tin compartments, and the Ball Cartridges in the wooden holes." On the current cartridge pouch: "The pouch cannot contain, without the risk of bruising the cartridges in the paper packages as now made up, more than four parcels of ten each; and the wooden holes, twelve, thus making in the whole, fifty-two rounds, a number infinitely too small for Riflemen to have in their possession..." Anyway, just thoughts...

Two Bakers you say... 0~o Sooo, now we're Cooking... as it were.... >~< Sorry, (sigh) low hanging fruit is all I can reach anymore...

Enjoyed listening! Did notice that the lock-time was a bit slow to my eyes. I wonder whether it could be because the frizzens are modern case-hardened rather than pack-carbourised (the old fashioned way), or if there is any appreciable difference in hardness between them. The high-carbon steel frizzen on my bess really showers sparks into the pan, and lock time can be very fast (very nearly like a percussion). If it happens the face is too hard, the flint won't "bite" into it as much, resulting in less sparks. (and perhaps shorter flint-life) Another thought I had was with regards to the round-ball at long ranges. Do you know whether the round-ball deforms (slumps) slightly upon firing? Even if it was slight, I imagine it could have quite a significant effect at extended ranges. I'm curious as to how a harder alloy ball would compare, or perhaps (more historically?) an oversized ball + forcing principle.

Muzzle loading with lose powder, patch & ball, still quicker than video editing?

A bit off topic, but you probably have the best hands-on insight to this question. According to Robert Held in "The Age of Firearms", the Brown Bess could be fired 6 times a minute due to the ball being very undersized (pg. 111). This always seemed to be a high fire rate for any muzzleloader, even assuming the soldiers just fired without aiming. Based on your experience, do you believe six shots a minute could be achieved with a Brown Bess under the best of circumstances?

Interesting

In your opinion which manufacturing company made the worst quality of enfield rifle ie maltby BSA savage fazakerly etc ?

I have just looked at the barrel of the Baker parts kit I got from TRS last year.. it has, as I reported to Rob, square bottom grooves, however there are only 6 of them. Why change the groove and not the number? I don't know what the twist is yet, but it is very shallow! As to fitting keys, I share your pain..! I chiselled out the keys on a Ferguson I built a couple of years ago, and was not that satisified.. somebody suggested burning them out by heating up the keys... any thoughts? My work on the Baker has been stalled the past few months by my acceptance of a challenge to make some Burnside cases. You can get them in the States, however nobody with export apparantly! I might post some photos, but it is proving to be much harder than I initially thought.. I am becoming convinced that Burnside made the cases that shape to make them hard to reproduce...!

:)

Hopefully after Baker repros there’s an Adams repro.

Dear Britishmuzzleloader and Community. I'm kinda new to the whole muzzleloader thing. i was twice shooting some Muskets. I don't own any Musket, but i thinking about to get one. Does anybody have a good idea which musket i should Purchase as a Beginner??? I'm from Germany so i would prefer a Prussian Musket, but i'm open to any Muzzleloader. Thank you for your suggestion. :)

Two or three questions, first where can you get a reproduction rifle? Next they ever use anything other than round ball, I was thinking of American civil war mine ball ? and finally what is the book called that the target figure is from?

I think by far the coolest thing about the baker true or not is it came after England tried to make us damn colonials behave and pay our taxes and we took our rifles after them so one can't help but think that played some part in it's adoption

A question, nothing directly to do with this episode, but you ought to know. In the battle of Fuento De Onoro in the peninsular war what nationality were the troops who held the flat ground to the south of the town? Excuse my impertinence.

OK. I must ask. Why did they use a guy in his underpants as a target back then? Is there any mention of that in the history?

Great discussion on these two reproduction rifles

They cannot make an actual baker rifle reproduction fast enough. Come on, I neeeeed it! haha