There are 2 mistakes in the video. At around 30 Seconds it should have had the day as December 23 (not the 21st) for Joseph's birth. And at around 1 hour 10 minutes it should have said Men and Women promise obedience to God solely in the modern Endowment rather than the past where women promised obedience to their husbands. Also for those who want to support projects like this please consider donating here mdpodcast.org/donate-to-mdpodcast/ Please LIKE, SHARE, & SUBSCRIBE
@kjvjay10 ай бұрын
Well done!
@djeciruam5 ай бұрын
I see a lot more mistakes than that, most of this seems to be off.
@camerongiles71414 ай бұрын
@djeciruam what seems to be off? Is this just because you are LDS, and think this doesn't show The Church in the way that you would prefer? They seem to be citing their sources pretty well in the video.
@RichardHolmes-ll8ii4 ай бұрын
What is your response to the reality of Paul Gregersen debunking the arrogant Egyptologist opinions against Joseph Smith?
@djeciruam4 ай бұрын
@@camerongiles7141I was the same way once so instead of taking someone else's word for what they said, I looked for myself, at the source. Always check for yourself.
@MAJ16710 ай бұрын
Just got my resignation letter today. It feels just like a breakup when I've known that the person was bad for me. After getting that letter, now I feel like I can grieve. Grieve for myself, my family and our bloody family history. This podcast helps me with that.
@atphoenix202010 ай бұрын
Look at it is as freedom from the cult. What feels like the end is often the beginning! Received my official letter almost a year ago. Welcome ❤
@rockytreadway10 ай бұрын
Congratulations!! Welcome to the part of your life that YOU control ✨️ ❤ have fun! I'm happy for you
@scottdixon372710 ай бұрын
What was the straw that broke the camels back with your decision of leaving ? Are you 100% positive you did the right thing ?
@MAJ16710 ай бұрын
@@atphoenix2020thanks! Definitely a relief of pressure. Generations worth
@MAJ16710 ай бұрын
@@scottdixon3727I am positive I did the right thing. It wasn't just one thing but getting quality therapy helped me trust myself enough to do what I knew was right for me for years.
@patricianoel778210 ай бұрын
After 67 years of love and devotion, I settled onto two years of studying and podcasts. I was a 7 generation member and waited for my mom to pass 2 months ago before spreading my new found knowledge. I can’t believe I spent my whole life on a cult?!
@laurelmacquarrie155910 ай бұрын
Totally with you
@dl113010 ай бұрын
As an older 7th generation I am surprised that more older members aren't extremely concerned about the 180° changes and the outright deceit.
@beastshawnee10 ай бұрын
All religions are pretty much cults. Mormons are just a bit more so.
@lorawhitfield699510 ай бұрын
I am 63 and resigned my membership a few months ago. Wish I had learned these things years ago…but I’m happy to know now and able to live my life authentically!
@matildabanana351610 ай бұрын
Maybe you should have read the scriptures and the voice of God instead of listening to man.
@djdalad10 ай бұрын
I'm very impressed with all the work that was put into this production. I hope it will have a lasting impact on those who are seeking understanding of the history of this church.
@TeslaAI5 ай бұрын
Mandatory listening for anyone considering joining the Mormon Church. A succinct, even-handed history of the Church.
@MormonDiscussion3 ай бұрын
thank you so much! that was the goal. Tell the story accurately and let people make informed decisions!
@JSandLDS2 ай бұрын
@@MormonDiscussion Thank you for all the work put into this. It does appear to be an attempt at a balanced view. However, it also shows how a truly balanced view is impossible to achieve because every decision to include or exclude certain documents, witness testimony or background context has power to persuade one way or another. Even the positioning on the timeline of certain events, such as the first visitation, at the point where Joseph claimed it happened, rather than at the much later date of the claim, paints a picture of it actually happening at that date but his later recollections possibly being result of him not remembering properly. If I claimed at age 50 that I saw a UFO when I was 10, and someone wrote a biography on my life. I think the most accurate way of portraying this on the timeline, is at age 50 and clearly framed as a claim. The only reason to position it at age 10, would be if I told everyone at that point and it had some impact on those around me when I was 10. However if someone believed that I'd definitely seen that UFO, then it would make sense for them to position it at age 10, as in their mind, it would be a historical fact rather than the claim of an individual.
@stevenbolin768810 ай бұрын
Bill ,you could make lots of money reading books. Your voice is calming and soothing. I'll bet you could also probably hypnotize someone if you were aware of the proper technique. Again thank you for your service sir 🙏👍
@MormonDiscussion10 ай бұрын
thanks for the kind words
@ivonna.tinkle10 ай бұрын
Whoa, I can’t imagine how much time it took to write, film and edit this video! Amazing job! Can the most important/moving parts of this video be made into shorts, reels, and TikTok vids? We've all developed short attention spans. Maybe Maven can help facilitate this? I’m going to have to watch this multiple times to absorb it all.
@MormonDiscussion10 ай бұрын
Yes! Thank you!
@orangemanbad7 ай бұрын
As a Christian, I read the Book of Mormon and was truly stunned. While it’s obviously a fraud for many reasons I can give, I was pretty stunned a young man could just speak that all out. I this it’s possible he was visited by a spirit who gave him this book similar to a spirit giving Muhammad the Quran.
@Ronald-pe8di7 ай бұрын
An evil spirit he had
@DamonNomad824 ай бұрын
Islam was started by a false "prophet" who claimed to be visited by an angel and given new revelations, falsely accused the Bible of being "corrupted", wrote a new "holy" book to replace it, taught that polygamy was a good thing, and liked little girls in inappropriate ways. Mormonism was started by a false "prophet" who claimed to be visited by an angel and given new revelations, falsely accused the Bible of being "corrupted", wrote a new "holy" book to replace it, taught that polygamy was a good thing, and liked little girls in inappropriate ways. Things that make you say "Hmm..."
@willx9352Ай бұрын
Given that portions of it are direct quotation from the King James Bible (including the errors found in a particular edition), it is obvious that it was not just “spoken out”.
@TheCollapsedPsi10 ай бұрын
It's very telling that dispassionate, factual history can come off as so completely anti-mormon.
@MormonDiscussion10 ай бұрын
its an uphill battle to counter disinformation isn't it?
@anthony2124598 ай бұрын
Only to a mormon. Anyone with a brain wouldnt be interested in learning anythingabout it. And those who are and have a brian would see right through it. I dont think theres ever been a religion that was more proven to be a pile of horse shit.
@gerard48707 ай бұрын
Yes, but one of momentyuouous importance.
@conductorsearle3 ай бұрын
Probably because Mormons are so well trained not to think critically.
@deborahtrapper742110 ай бұрын
Excellent! Thank you for a thorough and engaging presentation. You're very good at this!
@MormonDiscussion10 ай бұрын
You are welcome
@mgeuleinstsear4 ай бұрын
I appreciate this presentation SO MUCH! About a year ago, I tried to find a good, thorough documentary about the LDS Church's history, but of course, could only find LDS-made documentaries that lacked a lot of important details, or very obviously anti-LDS documentaries that were just not comprehensive enough. I love how thorough this one is
@MormonDiscussion3 ай бұрын
You're very welcome!
@TheSaintelias10 ай бұрын
Very interesting. So many different ways to handle all this information. You did a great job. Such a good format to explaining the churches history. Wonder if this format could go year by year as things acutely happened, rather than revised history that is taught. Good job on this.
@MormonDiscussion3 ай бұрын
Thank You
@edbutzwiggle422710 ай бұрын
Thanks Bill for your sacrificing to produce this video
@rickskeptical10 ай бұрын
Great video. Your presentation is very thorough and without any unnecessary embellishment or emotional outrage. I hope to hear more and hope so much that other members of the church get the opportunity to hear this as well. As for me, I left as a bishop just before the LBGTQ fiasco, Never been happier or more at peace than now (probably Satan making my life easier 😁).
@mr.hermit24337 ай бұрын
I really enjoy learning about REAL Church History. Seminary studies in the 80s never sounded quite right to me. I walked away from the Church 20 years ago and just recently discovered this Content. Thank you for providing it! It explains A LOT👍
@Bazcole9310 ай бұрын
BR , Your voice is so smooth on the new mic
@user-hl1yp6jr8r4 ай бұрын
I❤ this beautiful gospel of Jesus Christ for ever and Always Amen 😢 Thank you Jesus Christ for this beautiful gospel of "Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" Amen ✔️ hallelujah Hallelujah 💛😇💕 Aloha.
@MormonDiscussion3 ай бұрын
Do you dispute any of the history shown? or just sharing your religious testimony as a way to dismiss what was presented?
@ZakMakoff10 ай бұрын
Hello from Holladay, Utah!
@steveambrose234910 ай бұрын
As I understand uncovered church history, it wasn’t Moroni that Smith communicated with but Nephi. The Moroni narrative was added by Brigham Young when the Mormons were in Utah Territory. The church claims that it was a clerical error naming Nephi as the treasure angel. If this is true, then why didn’t Smith correct the record while he was alive?
@anglomik10 ай бұрын
I believe it. All true. I have a Magic Hat & Stone myself.
@JamesBPreston10 ай бұрын
Hello from Kamas, Ut
@stevenbolin768810 ай бұрын
I truly appreciate you and your dedication to bringing the truth of the church out into the open. It's been a long time since we had someone who was not afraid to do so. I believe that most are discussed by the real truth about the history and people who have been part of this church's history.
@HelloUser110 ай бұрын
Well done writing and narration. A fair and respectful depiction of the history and inconistencies.
@troygardner655910 ай бұрын
Excellent narration Bill!! Joseph Smiths history sounds a lot like Tim Ballards current ruse. Thank goodness , we live in a new age where we can look up truth, or i fear Tim Ballard would be a new prophet .
@sarahbrome556410 ай бұрын
This was so well put together! I'm watching it a second time. Thank you.
@thomasfolio79319 ай бұрын
Joseph Smith's stories about Jesus in the Americas was plagiarized from other authors, primarily the book, "View of the Hebrews" published in 1823 written by Ethan Smith (No relation to Joseph) We see the same thing with another Religion founded at the same time. Ellen G White, the founder of the Seventh Day Adventists who plagiarized books by others and said that they were visions and revelations that she had. Like Smith she did not have the foresight to claim the visions were prior to the date the other books were written. So they were stuck with a later, "revelation" lifted from the pages of other people's writings.
@kevinmorris722410 ай бұрын
Again, true mormonism is the real occult.
@KennethBurkett5 ай бұрын
This is one of the best KZfaqrs that you'll find on the mormon (sp on purpose) church
@MormonDiscussion3 ай бұрын
thank you so much!
@thaiguyry10 ай бұрын
Excellent presentation. Thank you. I wish I knew these details previously. I'm glad my family is no longer participating in this path, aka 'covenant path'.
@notyourtypicalcomment23997 ай бұрын
How is it ppl actually convert to it, I find it very strange
@VirtuousHereticKristin10 ай бұрын
Cheers from Farmington, UT!
@daniellima297310 ай бұрын
God wastes so much time . Why couldn’t he reveal the full name of the Church when it was organized?
@daisybee143910 ай бұрын
Very interesting and informative video! Thanks Bill!😀😀
@ZakMakoff10 ай бұрын
I was in school in Berkley durin "Prop 8" the Church poured in mega $$$ One day during Priesthood we were lectured to "Contact fam, friends & neighbors to support "Prop 8" I interjected, "Is this lesson in the Study Manuel?" The look on Everyone's face and whispers as I walked into the chapel for Sacrament... lol
@user-ux3vb5zg1p10 ай бұрын
We will get this podcast debunked as we point out your lies and how you are misleading people against the church
@RoheAmar10 ай бұрын
I appreciate and enjoy your podcasts thank you so much My Husband my son and I left 2011 and are very happy that we made the decision to leave.
@gerard48707 ай бұрын
The sad thing isn't that this occurred, it's that all these millions are going to hell.
@user-be4fz4ck5q7 ай бұрын
Greetings from Ogden, Utah!
@momintheshoe427810 ай бұрын
Well, this really sums it up ! Great show
@MormonDiscussion10 ай бұрын
Glad you think so!
@andrewfike429010 ай бұрын
Great job!
@MormonDiscussion10 ай бұрын
Thank you
@GaliSinatra10 ай бұрын
Well done!
@MormonDiscussion10 ай бұрын
Thank you
@toogsintheteeth10 ай бұрын
Very well done! May I offer one criticism? At 1:10:21 to 1:10:28, I believe you misspoke in saying that both the wives and husbands "promise to obey their husbands". I just thought you wanted to know. This has been changed since I stopped attending, so I may be wrong, but do you mean that they both promise to obey the Lord?
@MormonDiscussion10 ай бұрын
Yes I misspoke. Lol no way to fix now
@JohnMartin-vw4zt10 ай бұрын
When I was a member it was said she will obey her husband as he obeys Father (God)
@susiemccomb450110 ай бұрын
I may be wrong but I don’t think Joey Boy went through all the sealing shenanigans before Emma found them rolling in the hay.
@MormonDiscussion10 ай бұрын
That seems the most likely perspective... that it was an affair
@joshuaadduru54799 ай бұрын
If only we had access to these records early on..
@paulamortensen363 ай бұрын
The witnesses continued to stand by their testimonies even though they left the church
@nightman634929 күн бұрын
And they never physically saw the plates. They saw a box that Joseph smith said had the plates in them. So they aren't even eye witnesses. They used their spirit eyes (imagination)
@ywf289110 ай бұрын
That was really entertaining and insightful! Great job Bill! 🙂👍
@MormonDiscussion10 ай бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it!
@ZakMakoff10 ай бұрын
My grandparents owned a business in So SLC, their best customers were a polygmst fam called the Kingston's...they dressed modern to 'blend in!'
@gerard48707 ай бұрын
The kingstons--descendants of jesus himself. Somehow. Obviously not the Christian jesus.
@zachgarver792210 ай бұрын
Doing OK until Carthage jail, but there Bill, your narrative describing Smith's death could have come from an adult missionary. Smith was not "martyred." He did not willingly die for his faith. His faith was not the issue, he could have denounced it at the top of his lungs and it would not have made a difference to the mob. Further, you completely neglected the fact that both Smiths resisted with firearms that were smuggled to them, killing two of their attackers. Hardly the act of a martyr. Unjustly attacked and killed by a mob? Yes. Did Smith have a right to defend himself? Again Yes, but he was NOT a martyr.
@carolyearsley10 ай бұрын
Exactly! He died in a gun fight. He was shooting down the steps leading up to the room they were in.
@KSASTAMPS10 ай бұрын
And what would be your source that he killed any of the attackers? There were between 100-200 in the mob attacking the jail at Carthage. Joseph Smith was killed for religious reasons. The fact that he fired a few shots with a pistol is irrelevant. You may not agree with what he taught, but your argument that he was not a martyr is not valid.
@MormonDiscussion10 ай бұрын
The intent was to be fair and faith encouraging where possible.
@zachgarver792210 ай бұрын
My sources is any number of people who have objectively researched and written on the subject. The fact that Smith was armed and two attackers were killed is not in dispute, though perhaps never mentioned in the church narrative or by the missionary tour guides at Carthage Jail. Smith was killed because he practiced polygamy in the most vile and predatory manner. So to the extent polygamy was part of his religious beliefs (even though he lied about it to the day he died, and the church lied about it for over 170 years), OK I will concede that in that narrow sense he was a "martyr." @@KSASTAMPS
@davesommers642710 ай бұрын
again, this is why you use the word “quote and unquote“ in using the church's whitewashed or even created versions of history
@charlescresap44513 ай бұрын
My desire has been to have a relationship with the Savior. The scripture says "when you have received" check with the holy Ghost to verify the truth. I am acquainted with both the J W s and L Ron... I have received firm verification of my relationship with Christ. The LDS Church has provided much, not all, of that verification. However, the unused Book of Mormon scripture, Alma 37:9, repentance, that is to know God and to rejoice in Christ our redeemer, tells me all I need to know. The purpose of His church and the prophets is to give me what I need to have that relationship with Christ and to bring me to know my God, Christ's father. I know when and how I have received what I have needed. I am older (80+) and I now have a personal relationship with them that has been confirmed over many years.
@jamesbyrd692210 ай бұрын
I appreciate the idea of an overview. However, I think that the approach does a better job of convincing the average mormon that is just becoming aware of the real history of the church to accept this new version. This is because unlike the LDS church your are telling the whole truth; however it is the "varnish" that is the problem. That "varnish" being the overwhelming number of adjectives with a positive connotations. Words like "divine", "momentous", "monumental" and phrases like "it bore witness" handily sell the ludicrous notion that god needed to speak through a rock. Merely including forms of the word "alleged" a couple of times hardly detract from the overall artful and a positive feel created by this presentation. This criticism is not meant to endorse the notion of creating a presentation that is clearly meant to be mean spirited or negative. Unfortunately, for those of us coming from a mormon past it is very difficult for us to approach LDS topics without using the reverent rhetoric that was taught to us by our former church. Please re do the recording after a careful rewrite (maybe even by a third party). This final edit would be extremely important because your concept is critical to understanding mormonism - an investigator can obtain the same information contained in this presentation elsewhere, buy only after hundreds of hours of study! I challenge you to re watch the presentation and do a count of the positive descriptors for yourself and compare it with phrasing that challenges the viewer to question. JCB
@davesommers642710 ай бұрын
May I add, to use the word “quote“ and perhaps "unquote" when you speak in words used by the church to make things magnificent and glorious as a PR stunt in promoting a false narrative. In other words, this will help many that are not as familiar as some of us are in contrasting the church’s position and what the real facts are.
@allanmason32019 ай бұрын
Not a Mormon and never have been, but I've long been interested in the myriad flavours of American religious fruitcakes. I made it about 15 minutes into this video before the blandly neutral descriptions of highly implausible or utterly impossible events became too much for me to tolerate. As for the video's creator trying to be respectful, any attempt to give an objective appraisal of the history of Joseph Smith must *necessarily* be negative; the man was either a delusional fool or a con-man who was capable of glibly telling the most ridiculous lies in pursuit of his selfish ends. The same applies to those who succeeded him in controlling the church, although the list of possible explanations for some of those guys has to also include "highly manipulative psychopath". Maybe the reverential and respectful tone of this video will allow devout LDS believers to take on board a few nibbles of the truth about their religion, but it did nothing positive for me, and I didn't learn anything I didn't already know about Mormonism before I hit pause.
@pturn90136 ай бұрын
Who doesn't love a good fairytale?
@richlopez58962 ай бұрын
Joseph Smith As A Monotheist There are three major stages in the development of Joseph Smith’s doctrine of Deity. The earliest stage is represented by the Book of Mormon (1830), the Book of Moses (1830-31), and the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible (1833). Many passages from these early works of Joseph Smith reveal his belief in monotheism. Here are a few of the numerous examples: Book of Mormon, Alma 11:26-28 “And Zeezrom said unto him: Thou sayest there is a true and living God. And Amulek said: Yea, there is a true and living God. Now Zeezrom said: Is there more than one God? And he answered, No.” The Book of Mormon ‘Testimony of the Three Witnesses’ Preface: “And honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.” Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible Isaiah 44:6,8 (left unchanged): “Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer, the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.” The Book of Moses, Moses 1:6: “And I have a work for thee, Moses, my son; and thou art in the similitude of my Only Begotten; and mine Only Begotten is and shall be the Savior, for he is full of grace and truth; but there is no God beside me, and all things are present with me, for I know them all.” Now many Mormons have tried their best to harmonize and rationalize the monotheistic passages in the Book of Mormon with Joseph’s later teaching of the plurality of Gods, by saying while there are many Gods, “there is only one God with whom we have to do, or whom we worship”. But in light of the JST version of Isaiah 44:8 (“Is there a God beside me? yea, There is no God; I know not any”) and a number of other passages like Isaiah 43:10-11; 45:21-22; 46:9, it’s hard to argue this position. Joseph Smith as a “Binitarian” In 1834-35, during the Kirtland, Ohio period, Joseph Smith made a major departure from the Book of Mormon emphasis on the Father and Son as the same person. While still apparently maintaining there is only one God (monotheism), he began to teach there are two persons within the Godhead - the Father and the Son. Theologians call this “binitarianism.” This second stage in Joseph’s teaching regarding Deity is found in the Doctrine and Covenants “Lectures on Faith”: Lectures on Faith, Lecture Five: There are two personages who constitute the great, matchless, governing and supreme power over all things - by whom all things were created and made . . . They are the Father and the Son: The Father being a personage of spirit, glory and power: possessing all perfection and fullness: The Son, who was in the bosom of the Father, a personage of tabernacle, made and fashioned like unto man. Lectures on Faith, Lecture Five (question and answer section) Q. How many personages are there in the Godhead? A. Two: the Father and the Son. According to the Lectures on Faith, the Holy Ghost, or Holy Spirit (the two terms were not distinguished at this stage), is not a person, but is the shared ‘mind’ of the Father and Son. Joseph Smith As A Polytheist The Book of Abraham, first published in 1842, represents the fourth and final stage of Joseph Smith’s developing doctrine of Deity. Here, for the first time, Joseph spells out in no uncertain terms the doctrine of the plurality of Gods: Book of Abraham 4:2-3 “And the earth, after it was formed, was empty and desolate . . . and the Spirit of the Gods was brooding upon the face of the waters. And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light.” Expressions such as “the Gods called,” “the Gods ordered,” and “the Gods prepared” occur 45 times in Abraham 4-5. And directly related to the doctrine of the plurality of Gods is Joseph’s teaching that Heavenly Father is an exalted man who Himself has a Father, and whose Father has a Father, ad infinitum. In a June 16, 1844 sermon recorded in the History of the Church, Joseph described this new understanding that there are many Gods and that Heavenly Father is Himself the offspring of a more ancient Deity: Joseph Smith’s King Follet Discourse (History of the Church, vol. 6) “I want to reason a little on this subject (that God himself has a father). I learned it by translating the (Book of Abraham) papyrus that is now in my house. I learned a testimony concerning Abraham, and he reasoned concerning the God of heaven . . . If Abraham reasoned thus - If Jesus Christ was the Son of God, and John discovered that God the Father of Jesus Christ had a Father, you may suppose that He had a Father also.” A Few False Prophecies of Joseph Smith, Founder of the Mormon sect: *In 1835 Joseph Smith prophesied the Lord’s return within 56 years (History of the Church, Vol. 2, pg. 182). By 1891 this was proven to be a false prophecy. *In 1843 Joseph Smith prophesied that the United States government would be overthrown and wasted within a few years if they refused to redress the wrongs committed against the Mormons in Missouri (History of the Church, Vol. 5, pg. 394). The United States government has never formally redressed any wrongs committed against the Mormons in Missouri and the government still stands nearly 170 years later. *In 1832 Joseph Smith prophesied that the present generation of Mormons would not pass away before the temple of the New Jerusalem would be built in Zion, Missouri (Doctrine & Covenants Section 84). The Mormons were forced to flee Missouri and no temple was constructed there in Joseph Smith’s lifetime or within the generation that witnessed this prophecy. *In 1832 Joseph Smith prophesied that the United States civil war would eventually engulf all nations (Doctrine & Covenants Section 87). This prophecy did not come close to being fulfilled. Joseph Smith made many other false prophecies in his lifetime. By the standards of God’s word, he must be labeled a false prophet (Deuteronomy 18:20-22)
@melaniep610910 ай бұрын
This is weird and possibly evil. I hurt for the sacrificed animals. I didn't know 😕 this was part 😳 of LDS history. Too bad. I wish I knew more. I more. I may not have joined.
@MormonDiscussion10 ай бұрын
Joseph Smith sacrifices a Dog to help him find buried treasure: -In the time of their digging for money and not finding it attainable, Joe Smith told them there was a charm on the pots of money, and if some animal was killed and the blood sprinkled around the place, then they could get it. So they killed a dog, and tried this method of obtaining the precious metal; but again money was scarce in those diggings. Still, they dug and dug, but never came to the precious treasure. Alas! how vivid was the expectation when the blood of poor Tray was used to take off the charm, and after all to find their mistake. Emily Coburn, in Emily M. Austin, Mormonism; or, Life Among the Mormons, 1882, pp. 32-33 -Hiel Lewis affirmed that Smith translated the Book of Mormon by means of the same enchanting spirit that directed Smith to make dog sacrifices. Dr. Quinn wrote, "A cousin of Smith's wife Emma reported that Smith 'translated the book of Mormon by means of the same peep stone, and under the same inspiration that directed his enchantments and dog sacrifices; it was all by the same spirit' (H. Lewis 1879)" (Quinn, 1987 edition, p. 144). -Justice Joel King Noble, who tried Smith in an 1830 trial in Colesville, N.Y., related in a letter that when Joe Smith and others were digging "for a Chest of money," they acquired a black dog and offered it as "a sacrafise [blood Sprinkled prayer made at the time (no money obtained) the above Sworn to on trial. . . ." (Letter of Justice Noble, dated March 8, 1842, photographically reproduced in Walters, "Joseph Smith's Bainbridge, N.Y., Court Trials," p. 134).
@ReelHifi10 ай бұрын
we all do :(
@xaverrogers491010 ай бұрын
Five star pentagram inverted on slc Temple or was in two places. Internet exposing truth so they might removed them. Christus statue has split beard!
@kennethd.943610 ай бұрын
I think something which would have distracted me from the prophet Joseph Smith is to ask which colors were his Seer stones. 😄 One White, the other brown. Reading the story of Hiram Page in the context of Joseph’s Seer stone; D&C 28. Who else believed a preacher with a stone of revelation? All the Mormons who lived in the time of Joseph Smith.
@luisacavazzola972320 күн бұрын
Bla ,bla bla blabla blabla bla bla
@orlandoastiazaran55716 ай бұрын
This is sooo tonge-in-cheek. Thanks
@davesommers642710 ай бұрын
Bill, one thing many people do not realize is that doctrine was changed in the book of Mormon. I’m certain you’re aware of this, but it may be good to add a little snippet in there about the Trinity being taught in first Nephi chapter 11, and again, in first Nephi chapter 13. Look it up on the book of Mormon Central.
@MormonDiscussion10 ай бұрын
I hope to do a future presentation going over the theology of the LDS Church
@davesommers642710 ай бұрын
Huge IMHO
@youtubegirl1496 ай бұрын
A question for Mormons- what makes you believe this is true?
@Just-MACCHEESE5 ай бұрын
I was born into the church. I am in the middle of a faith crisis. But I have come to the conclusion that fear is the reason people believe. We have been taught since childhood that if you leave the church you will be exempt from blessings and that you will never be truly happy. We have also been taught that not marrying within the temple will not allow you to be in the highest level of heaven. Not to mention the terrifying idea that you will never be able to see your family after you die.
@youtubegirl1495 ай бұрын
@@Just-MACCHEESE thank you for the truthful response. I am a practicing Catholic and I know some Catholics who believe for similar reasons that you mentioned … I personally believe in Catholicism because it’s the only thing that can provide me all the answers and I believe it to be the truth. I looked at other religions and denominations and Catholicism provides all the puzzle pieces- every teaching just “fits”
@Just-MACCHEESE5 ай бұрын
@@youtubegirl149 my mother actually left the Catholic Church for Mormonism. I still don’t understand why though.
@youtubegirl1494 ай бұрын
@@Just-MACCHEESE i noticed a lot of cradle Catholics don’t really know their faith and can’t defend it (I was definitely guilty of this at one time )
@lhyde5510 ай бұрын
One big correction. Emma Smith was not Joseph's first wife.
@susiemccomb450110 ай бұрын
Who was Joey’s first wife? Emma Hale was his first wife, I thought?
@xaviera999410 ай бұрын
Emma was his first Wife, but not his first Celectial wife. He got sealed to other woman before Emma. Emma was 20.. something I think.
@beastshawnee10 ай бұрын
He was already legally married to Emma thru the state before he got “sealed” to those other “wives”! BUT sure he secretly sealed the girls he was having sex with BeFore Emma.
@davesommers642710 ай бұрын
Fanny Algar I believe was first polygamist wife- maybe 16 years old?
@marquitaarmstrong399Ай бұрын
Bill this was diamond. Thank u. ❤❤🎉🎉
@chrewtransformation10 ай бұрын
27:40 most important slide b/c the church claims the priesthood authority/restoration is the #1 element that makes them the correct church
@dbrandon45289 ай бұрын
You should read the Joseph Smith Papers.
@Zeett0910 ай бұрын
Great stuff!! Nit….Opening date of Smiths birth. Wasn’t it Dec 23rd?
@MormonDiscussion10 ай бұрын
Yes. That’s an error. Will attempt to fix
@twinnish6 ай бұрын
I’m not sure how I missed this when it first came out. Thank you for all the work that you put into it.
@Rogue-nc3plАй бұрын
Did smith had a vision or he just made it up.
@randall736210 ай бұрын
The Fanchers traveled from Arkansas, to Salt Lake,while they were there they exchanged arguments, almost caused violence.it was over Joseph' smith's assassination back in cartilage jail, Brigham young vowed to revenge joseph smith
@MormonDiscussion10 ай бұрын
I think you are perpetuating a bad argument. The idea that the Francher Baker party was connected to those who committed violence on Joseph Smith has been proven untrue
@mattc16473 ай бұрын
Sees RFK and Bill Reel in channel header. Ahh, you're THAT kind of "Mormon" Channel. Making your money by leading people away from their faith is particularly slimy
@MormonDiscussionАй бұрын
What about leading people into further light and knowledge back into their own autonomy and into a more happy and fulfilling life?
@nowlwane962310 ай бұрын
Can’t go against THE MESSAGE
@AlbertJLouie10 ай бұрын
When you seek answers from the Book of Mormon instead of the Bible, God can't help you because you have turned your back on Him. Therefore this leaves the door open for Satan (II Corinthians 11:14-15) to step into your life with a false christ or prophet showing you signs and wonders to lead you away from the real Jesus of the Bible who is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity. God Himself warns us about this in: MATTHEW 24:23-24 "Then if anyone says to you, Look, here is the Christ! or There! do not believe it. For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect..." Mormons teach and believe that their jesus is the brother of Satan, which contradicts what God says in His Bible that Jesus is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity. So, Mormons, which Jesus do you believe in? Your jesus of the Book of Mormon, who is the brother of Satan. OR B. The Jesus of the Bible, who is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity.
@GazelamAle10 ай бұрын
I like Bill A.I. 😂 Reel? ❤
@copycat7695 ай бұрын
Once you unlock the real history of our world those all makes sense
@davidhepple8 ай бұрын
Early 19th century grifting.
@Jeanikins8 ай бұрын
This was wonderful Bill - great job. I feel that this is something I could share with a believer.
@MormonDiscussion3 ай бұрын
That was the goal. Tell the true history in a straightforward way. Give people the full story and let them make informed decisions.
@elbaocasio66088 ай бұрын
He fooled and continues to fool people. He must be in hell
@kenbrown60959 ай бұрын
wow, most excellent presentation!
@JamesW2252 ай бұрын
A theological nightmare
@randoman3310 ай бұрын
It's momentUS. Not momentYous
@MormonDiscussion10 ай бұрын
thank you!
@pianomanchristopher4 ай бұрын
Very thorough coverage of the real history, at least as we are now aware of it.
@KSASTAMPS10 ай бұрын
Re: the eight witnesses. Do you have any actual direct statement from any of the eight witnesses that they did not view the plates in the manner listed in the witness statement? This is a serious question. I've studied Mormonism pretty diligently for nearly 50 years, and have never run across any direct evidence in this regard. If you or anyone has it, I would like a citation in response to this comment.
@beastshawnee10 ай бұрын
Common sense tells everyone that they were lying about seeing anything and then made uncomfortable with their lies and decided to alter those lies afterward with some plausible deniability. dog sacrifices-seeing stones- treasure digs - these led to Joseph’s conning people with magical plates. It’s just logical thinking to assume once a con???ž.5
@JohnMartin-vw4zt10 ай бұрын
Check with the Reorganized Church of JC of LDS. They have a lot of saved records that the original church would have probably destroyed
@MormonDiscussion10 ай бұрын
Thomas Ford, former Governor of Illinois, reflected upon his impression of the witnesses. “…I have been informed by men who were once in the confidence of the prophet, that he privately gave a different account of the matter… He set them to continual prayer, and other spiritual exercises…and at last, when he could delay them no longer, he assembled them in a room, and produced a box, which he said contained the precious treasure. The lid was opened; the witnesses peeped into it, but making no discovery, for the box was empty…” The prophet promptly chastised their lack of faith, commanding them to their knees to beg forgiveness and increased faith. “The disciples dropped to their knees and began to pray in the fervency of their spirit, supplicating God for more than two hours with fanatical earnestness; at the end of which time, looking again into the box, they were now persuaded that they saw the plates.” [33] If true, this is a damning account. If untrue, why didn’t the witnesses ever contradict the idea that they had only seen the gold plates with spiritual eyes? archive.org/details/ahistoryillinoi00shiegoog#page/n256
@whatsup327010 ай бұрын
They won't fit, I hope you know that. That much gold would be over 220lbs something all would remember, and something which can't be handled that way. And you can't write the book into that small amount of surface area, even with other metals, there are just too many words. And for me personally I can't get over how god/angels know American English but only knew it so, so badly. They can't spell or punctuate. And in addition to the spelling and punctuation issues there are many, many anachronisms, and there is 18th century KJV in there. I don't disparage Mormons for reaching to god (Natural Moral Law) however the BOM doesn't hold up well. btw the story makes the golden plates of no value, as they were never read, and didn't survive, heck even the box they were in (concrete= anachronism) didn't survive.
@allanmason32019 ай бұрын
@@whatsup3270 But the tablets were *obviously* holy, Moronic gold; everyone knows the physical properties of that stuff is nothing at all like the mundane, worldly gold we all know. As with every brand of religious nonsense, the "Because God..." non-explanation is the only possible one.
@EternityjoyYpilortega-th9cx4 ай бұрын
something is not right here.. GOD BLESS YOU MY FRIEND
@MormonDiscussion3 ай бұрын
is not right with Mormonism? I 100% agree
@stormiejohnson621110 ай бұрын
I am enjoying this particular podcast. I hate to be critical but there’s a little bugaboo about it that I would like to mention. Bill Reel keeps saying a word & sounds like he’s saying “moment-u-ous”. I don’t think that is a word. Does he mean momentous?
@MormonDiscussion10 ай бұрын
Bill certainly screwed the pooch on that word
@stormiejohnson621110 ай бұрын
@@MormonDiscussionHey, that’s ok!! I love you guys!!
@WORM6023 ай бұрын
Some dude found Gold plates.. what in the Harry's potter is going on
@susiemccomb450110 ай бұрын
I didn’t know that. He certainly had a “crotch” problem in his short life! I remember reading JS had been accused by some parents in NY for seducing their daughter, but never convicted
@Castle1nth3sky9 ай бұрын
I am grateful to be apart of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day saints I am grateful for kindness I am grateful for prayer I am grateful for truth I am grateful for God The Father and his son Jesus Christ
@kurticmuzik_9 ай бұрын
Nahhhh.
@countryboyred8 ай бұрын
Good for you. I know a lot of people that are grateful to be Catholic. I know a lot that are grateful to be Buddhist.
@OneFlockOneShepherd8 ай бұрын
You should Watch The Bible vs Book of Mormon. Stick with the KJV Bible alone
@LightWalker228 ай бұрын
Please. Be honest with yourself… look yourself right in the eyes in the mirror ask yourself if you truly are being honest… then go and look for yourself. Why do the leaders of Mormonism continue to NOT teach the fact that Joseph Smith actually used a "rock in a hat" for his “translation” technique? It’s missionaries are taught to NOT shows these facts to investigators. Your leaders do not teach the children this when teaching about how the Book of Mormon came about… if fact the Mormon leaders teach a complete different story propped up with propaganda pictures of Joseph Smith running his hands along gold plates as he dictates words to a scribe. The church leaders know full well this is not the FULL truth … and it’s NOW clearly admitted in the “gospel topic essays” on their very own web site. I was NEVER in 50 years taught this. In fact .. the one time I heard about this from a Christian pastor was in the 1980s while on my mission in NZ … Dallin H Oaks came to our mission Feb 1988 and told us missionaries that “the Joseph with a rock and hat myth” was a lie from the pit of hell designed to destroy the kingdom of god on earth”. Now these so called “Anti-Mormon Lies” are Documented, verified, proven history that the Leaders have been desperately trying to squash for over 180 years! All they can do now is whitewash the ACTUAL truth as best they can. So so sad… yet so revealing. Whitewashing and Not telling the full truth is the literal definition of deception… hello that is called “lying”. The Mormon leaders continue to not teach the FACT joseph smith married 38 plus wives including several teenagers as young as 14, sister combinations, mother daughter combinations, and even women still married to other living men (polyandry) Its missionaries stear far away from these facts, they don’t teach these facts to their investigators, the leaders don’t teach the children the FULL truth when teaching about Joseph Smith. Again - In fact it’s a complete different story propped up with propaganda pictures of Joseph Smith NEVER with more then one wife … They never teach the true stories of Joseph sending men off to missions and then marrying their wives while they are gone. No true stories of Joseph sending letters (like the “happiness letter”) to young teenage girls telling them their family’s will be exalted in heaven if they will merry him - but be destroyed if they don’t. The church leaders know full well they do not teach the FULL truth to their missionaries, or to their investigators, or to their children…. It’s all documented, verified and proven facts. Since 2014 (after being sued and threat of lawsuits). They quietly admit (although still extremely whitewashed) they admit these facts right on their own web site under “gospel topic essays”. Yet in public they STILL teach alternative 1/2 truth (feel good) whitewashed stories of Mormonism … Again… Not telling the full truth is the literal definition of deception… hello that is called “lying”. Even right now this very minute... The false Mormon prophets STILL "steer clear" and attempt to downplay the actual way joseph used a rock in a hat or the FACT he was a polyandry-polygamist. They do not create and distribute pictures, nor do they teach or testify to EVERYONE that Joseph Smith used a rock in a hat to produce the Book of Mormon, or teach how wonderful ALL his wives were. Even though most of his wives have hand written journals that explain about their lives as joseph smith’s wife. The wives (except Emma) are all dismissed into the abyss of LDS Mormonism as if they never existed. In fact LDS Mormonisms pictures and art and stories depict a completely different narrative that is not telling the FULL truth. So innocent people investigating and innocent children are led to believe a completely different narrative ... the propaganda manipulation and deception of Mormonism is truly astonishing and heartbreaking at the same time. The Mormon leaders truly are documented, verified and proven deceivers. Before the internet, the common claim about these subjects were "this is anti-Mormon literature made up by evil men to destroy the Mormon Church" Now - right on their very own web page under "gospel topic essays" the previously claimed "anti-Mormon literature" is now admitted to be ACTUALLY TRUE ... although still extremely whitewashed in attempt to excuse away the FACT the Mormon leaders had been lying about and hiding this information (and still do to a high extent) from the their members and the world. Even now the Mormon leaders don't teach this ... and MANY other issues ... to their children in Sunday school, their missionaries still leave this information out when teaching about joseph. They are taught to tell half truths in order to convince people .. by the way ...did I mention? … telling half the truth ... or NOT telling the whole truth is called LYING ... your Mormon leaders are LITERALLY documented and verifiably proven liars ... there is no excuse for this. the truth is just that ... THE TRUTH. And the truth is the Mormon leaders are liars. Those are just two examples of documented, proven and verified whitewashing, cover ups, deceptions, and outright lies by the Mormon leaders. There are literally hundreds of "truth Issues" that prove the Mormon leaders are liars and deceivers. If you'd like more examples.. please just ask .. we would love to share. Such as the Book of Abraham… In the gospel topic essays- the leaders of Mormonism literally explain clearly “the papyrus used by Joseph have nothing to do with Abraham and in fact date over 2000 years after Abraham even lived”. Again - not taught to missionaries, investigators, or children. The actual truth is this. Honesty and Integrity are far far more precious than Documented, verified, proven and NOW admitted Mormon lies … not only designed to make you feel special, entitled and important… but designed to rob you from your time, and energy and money… all to support a quasi Christian corporation led by deceiving men. Mormonism teaches and indoctrinates its members to attempt to excuse away the absolutely inexcusable lies and manipulation. I pray the wonderful people of Mormonism wake up to these facts. It truly is So so sad … yet so so revealing. May Our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ open the eyes and ears of these wonderful Mormon people to HIS Truth Light and love. In his name Jesus Christ Amen.
@conductorsearle3 ай бұрын
The first item you list has nothing to do with the last one.
@atheistapostate7019Ай бұрын
It would have been cool to have the reasoning behind the 1835 First Vision account since it is so rich in its story.
@atheistapostate7019Ай бұрын
The Book of Mormon characters should not have access to the book of Isiah either. Scholars place the writing of it between the 400-500bce time frame, AFTER Lehi’s family left, so how could they have had access to those as well?
@dan994810 ай бұрын
Error @1:10:20 - now both men and women covenant to obey ~~their husbands~~ *God
@MormonDiscussion10 ай бұрын
Yep I messed up
@mattmassey5762Ай бұрын
Correction: according to Smith's diary he wasn't visited by marooni it was Levi
@mackalarvena2352Ай бұрын
Love the video... 1 issue tho. The reading 😢 those "pauses" - apparently at the end of a row and transitioning to a new one are quite... well, they are noticable and distracting, interrupting the -otherwise nice- flow of info...
@KahlessTheUnforgettable3 ай бұрын
Greetings from Kolob 👽🖖
@KennethBurkett5 ай бұрын
Just like Mark Hoffman
@webweaver30156 ай бұрын
"By their fruits ye shall know them". Have you read the Book of Mormon? I have read the Book of Mormon and have gained a love of Jesus Christ through reading the book - no better fruit than that.
@DesiderataSanctuary4 ай бұрын
Book of Mormon: No facts about reality Science textbook from high school: all facts about reality
@MormonDiscussion3 ай бұрын
which historical data points from the presentation do you dispute?
@christiangriffin13 күн бұрын
“History”
@arowberry10 ай бұрын
Interesting. However i prefer to ask God the Eternal Father about the truth rather than accept a narrative spoke to me by a computer voice. I will look into what has been alleged here which is likely to be no less accurate than what i learned in high school. 😂
@MormonDiscussion10 ай бұрын
Can you sense that a Jehovah's witness and scientologist might have the same defensive response. Please do look up the data and then also see how the faiths defenders will acknowledge the data but then convince you of a mental gymnastic way to resolve it.
@davesommers642710 ай бұрын
Superb response, BILL!
@davesommers642710 ай бұрын
Why don’t you attack the messenger because you can’t defend the facts vs the church’s sugarcoated version
@LightWalker228 ай бұрын
Please. Be honest with yourself… look yourself right in the eyes in the mirror ask yourself if you truly are being honest… then go and look for yourself. Why do the leaders of Mormonism continue to NOT teach the fact that Joseph Smith actually used a "rock in a hat" for his “translation” technique? It’s missionaries are taught to NOT shows these facts to investigators. Your leaders do not teach the children this when teaching about how the Book of Mormon came about… if fact the Mormon leaders teach a complete different story propped up with propaganda pictures of Joseph Smith running his hands along gold plates as he dictates words to a scribe. The church leaders know full well this is not the FULL truth … and it’s NOW clearly admitted in the “gospel topic essays” on their very own web site. I was NEVER in 50 years taught this. In fact .. the one time I heard about this from a Christian pastor was in the 1980s while on my mission in NZ … Dallin H Oaks came to our mission Feb 1988 and told us missionaries that “the Joseph with a rock and hat myth” was a lie from the pit of hell designed to destroy the kingdom of god on earth”. Now these so called “Anti-Mormon Lies” are Documented, verified, proven history that the Leaders have been desperately trying to squash for over 180 years! All they can do now is whitewash the ACTUAL truth as best they can. So so sad… yet so revealing. Whitewashing and Not telling the full truth is the literal definition of deception… hello that is called “lying”. The Mormon leaders continue to not teach the FACT joseph smith married 38 plus wives including several teenagers as young as 14, sister combinations, mother daughter combinations, and even women still married to other living men (polyandry) Its missionaries stear far away from these facts, they don’t teach these facts to their investigators, the leaders don’t teach the children the FULL truth when teaching about Joseph Smith. Again - In fact it’s a complete different story propped up with propaganda pictures of Joseph Smith NEVER with more then one wife … They never teach the true stories of Joseph sending men off to missions and then marrying their wives while they are gone. No true stories of Joseph sending letters (like the “happiness letter”) to young teenage girls telling them their family’s will be exalted in heaven if they will merry him - but be destroyed if they don’t. The church leaders know full well they do not teach the FULL truth to their missionaries, or to their investigators, or to their children…. It’s all documented, verified and proven facts. Since 2014 (after being sued and threat of lawsuits). They quietly admit (although still extremely whitewashed) they admit these facts right on their own web site under “gospel topic essays”. Yet in public they STILL teach alternative 1/2 truth (feel good) whitewashed stories of Mormonism … Again… Not telling the full truth is the literal definition of deception… hello that is called “lying”. Even right now this very minute... The false Mormon prophets STILL "steer clear" and attempt to downplay the actual way joseph used a rock in a hat or the FACT he was a polyandry-polygamist. They do not create and distribute pictures, nor do they teach or testify to EVERYONE that Joseph Smith used a rock in a hat to produce the Book of Mormon, or teach how wonderful ALL his wives were. Even though most of his wives have hand written journals that explain about their lives as joseph smith’s wife. The wives (except Emma) are all dismissed into the abyss of LDS Mormonism as if they never existed. In fact LDS Mormonisms pictures and art and stories depict a completely different narrative that is not telling the FULL truth. So innocent people investigating and innocent children are led to believe a completely different narrative ... the propaganda manipulation and deception of Mormonism is truly astonishing and heartbreaking at the same time. The Mormon leaders truly are documented, verified and proven deceivers. Before the internet, the common claim about these subjects were "this is anti-Mormon literature made up by evil men to destroy the Mormon Church" Now - right on their very own web page under "gospel topic essays" the previously claimed "anti-Mormon literature" is now admitted to be ACTUALLY TRUE ... although still extremely whitewashed in attempt to excuse away the FACT the Mormon leaders had been lying about and hiding this information (and still do to a high extent) from the their members and the world. Even now the Mormon leaders don't teach this ... and MANY other issues ... to their children in Sunday school, their missionaries still leave this information out when teaching about joseph. They are taught to tell half truths in order to convince people .. by the way ...did I mention? … telling half the truth ... or NOT telling the whole truth is called LYING ... your Mormon leaders are LITERALLY documented and verifiably proven liars ... there is no excuse for this. the truth is just that ... THE TRUTH. And the truth is the Mormon leaders are liars. Those are just two examples of documented, proven and verified whitewashing, cover ups, deceptions, and outright lies by the Mormon leaders. There are literally hundreds of "truth Issues" that prove the Mormon leaders are liars and deceivers. If you'd like more examples.. please just ask .. we would love to share. Such as the Book of Abraham… In the gospel topic essays- the leaders of Mormonism literally explain clearly “the papyrus used by Joseph have nothing to do with Abraham and in fact date over 2000 years after Abraham even lived”. Again - not taught to missionaries, investigators, or children. The actual truth is this. Honesty and Integrity are far far more precious than Documented, verified, proven and NOW admitted Mormon lies … not only designed to make you feel special, entitled and important… but designed to rob you from your time, and energy and money… all to support a quasi Christian corporation led by deceiving men. Mormonism teaches and indoctrinates its members to attempt to excuse away the absolutely inexcusable lies and manipulation. I pray the wonderful people of Mormonism wake up to these facts. It truly is So so sad … yet so so revealing. May Our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ open the eyes and ears of these wonderful Mormon people to HIS Truth Light and love. In his name Jesus Christ Amen.
@gregoriosmith69945 ай бұрын
Does anyone really believe that god will answer you????
@user-ty4mn1qx8z9 ай бұрын
It matters not how a church began on its path to manifest Honors Light to fuel spiritual consciousness. What matters, does the church presently move Honorably . Does the energy they manifest come from Honors Light , an absolute, God power,. The energy that fuels all creation of matter and spirit. What kind of resonate energy is passed on and felt when you engage a practicing Mormon parishioner. Not Mormon , did go to Utah to hike mountains, and spent 4 years there. I can truly say there was a positive charge felt by practicing Mormon that left you feeling safe and trusting honors light was felt and seen.
@LightWalker228 ай бұрын
So true. They are the best deceivers right?
@kenyanjackson967310 ай бұрын
This is sad 😔 and scary. Especially when I know the 1611 KJV, and all of the prophets have ALWAYS been Israelites. The 1940 Caucasian photo of Cesare Borgia is the graven image the church promotes as Yeshura/Jesus. The Messiah is very dark skinned, reference Rev 1:14-15, Daniel 10:5-6....Job 30:30, Wisdom of Solomon 1:5,Jeremiah 8:21 for those who like to argue this one...Jeremiah 14:2...there's much more. My point is this, by having the Caucasian guy imprinted and impressing in your mind, it's impossible to know the mysteries of the Holy Bible. Even I had to unlearn the image as much as possible and repent. If somebody will look for the Messiah based on this CESARE BORGIA guy's image...they're going to be deceived. The image alone also makes a blasphemous statement that The Most High God Yhwh, and his Holy Son Yeshura, are cursed with leprosy. This is serious stuff! When people pray to Jesus, they better know he ain't no Caucasian., and I'm saying this out of love.
@davesommers642710 ай бұрын
Jesus was a Jew, you may want to look up Middle Eastern, Middle Eastern colors and compare them to the Jewish people, but even if he was, who cares, he’s our savior
@RichardHolmes-ll8ii5 ай бұрын
What is your response to the reality of Paul Gregersen debunking the arrogant Egyptologist opinions against Joseph Smith?
@jackallen54244 ай бұрын
Egyptologists* as in it is common consensus, amongst almost all of them
@RichardHolmes-ll8ii4 ай бұрын
@@jackallen5424This revelation/explanation from Joseph Smith was never supposed to match up with the translation from that of the anti-Mormon Egyptologists.
@MormonDiscussion3 ай бұрын
picking an anomaly person with a view unaccepted by everyone in the field when that person has a significant bias is not how critical thinking works.
@MormonDiscussion3 ай бұрын
also is Paul an Egyptologist or a Mormon who has dabbled in Egyptology?
@RichardHolmes-ll8ii3 ай бұрын
@@MormonDiscussionBias? You're bias. Critical thinking? The LDS are taught to think critically.
@TheAdventurer1Ай бұрын
Such bull. How could anyone believe this nonsense.
@bookermoron240910 ай бұрын
Didn't like the monotone delivery and there were many inaccuracies and inadequate detail concerning important historical events. I give it two stars.
@MormonDiscussion10 ай бұрын
Thank you for the kind words
@bookermoron240910 ай бұрын
@@MormonDiscussion You get enough comments stroking your ego. Do you want phony kindness or honest opinions?
@KAspinwall10 ай бұрын
I liked Bill's voice, research, and his presentation of the history. I give it 5 stars!
@arowberry10 ай бұрын
Is this ChatGPT or other AI generated???
@MormonDiscussion10 ай бұрын
it helped a little
@ChappyMcChapped-ip7bd6 ай бұрын
Great overview. Way too much flowery AI language.
@lg17172 ай бұрын
Magic stones in a hat? This just goes to show that people will believe anything
@akpred9 ай бұрын
I find it interesting that you don't list ANY sources. How am I supposed to take any of this seriously if you don't put where you found this info. It could easily be a story of fiction like you claim Joseph's story was
@LightWalker228 ай бұрын
Please. Be honest with yourself… look yourself right in the eyes in the mirror ask yourself if you truly are being honest… then go and look for yourself. Why do the leaders of Mormonism continue to NOT teach the fact that Joseph Smith actually used a "rock in a hat" for his “translation” technique? It’s missionaries are taught to NOT shows these facts to investigators. Your leaders do not teach the children this when teaching about how the Book of Mormon came about… if fact the Mormon leaders teach a complete different story propped up with propaganda pictures of Joseph Smith running his hands along gold plates as he dictates words to a scribe. The church leaders know full well this is not the FULL truth … and it’s NOW clearly admitted in the “gospel topic essays” on their very own web site. I was NEVER in 50 years taught this. In fact .. the one time I heard about this from a Christian pastor was in the 1980s while on my mission in NZ … Dallin H Oaks came to our mission Feb 1988 and told us missionaries that “the Joseph with a rock and hat myth” was a lie from the pit of hell designed to destroy the kingdom of god on earth”. Now these so called “Anti-Mormon Lies” are Documented, verified, proven history that the Leaders have been desperately trying to squash for over 180 years! All they can do now is whitewash the ACTUAL truth as best they can. So so sad… yet so revealing. Whitewashing and Not telling the full truth is the literal definition of deception… hello that is called “lying”. The Mormon leaders continue to not teach the FACT joseph smith married 38 plus wives including several teenagers as young as 14, sister combinations, mother daughter combinations, and even women still married to other living men (polyandry) Its missionaries stear far away from these facts, they don’t teach these facts to their investigators, the leaders don’t teach the children the FULL truth when teaching about Joseph Smith. Again - In fact it’s a complete different story propped up with propaganda pictures of Joseph Smith NEVER with more then one wife … They never teach the true stories of Joseph sending men off to missions and then marrying their wives while they are gone. No true stories of Joseph sending letters (like the “happiness letter”) to young teenage girls telling them their family’s will be exalted in heaven if they will merry him - but be destroyed if they don’t. The church leaders know full well they do not teach the FULL truth to their missionaries, or to their investigators, or to their children…. It’s all documented, verified and proven facts. Since 2014 (after being sued and threat of lawsuits). They quietly admit (although still extremely whitewashed) they admit these facts right on their own web site under “gospel topic essays”. Yet in public they STILL teach alternative 1/2 truth (feel good) whitewashed stories of Mormonism … Again… Not telling the full truth is the literal definition of deception… hello that is called “lying”. Even right now this very minute... The false Mormon prophets STILL "steer clear" and attempt to downplay the actual way joseph used a rock in a hat or the FACT he was a polyandry-polygamist. They do not create and distribute pictures, nor do they teach or testify to EVERYONE that Joseph Smith used a rock in a hat to produce the Book of Mormon, or teach how wonderful ALL his wives were. Even though most of his wives have hand written journals that explain about their lives as joseph smith’s wife. The wives (except Emma) are all dismissed into the abyss of LDS Mormonism as if they never existed. In fact LDS Mormonisms pictures and art and stories depict a completely different narrative that is not telling the FULL truth. So innocent people investigating and innocent children are led to believe a completely different narrative ... the propaganda manipulation and deception of Mormonism is truly astonishing and heartbreaking at the same time. The Mormon leaders truly are documented, verified and proven deceivers. Before the internet, the common claim about these subjects were "this is anti-Mormon literature made up by evil men to destroy the Mormon Church" Now - right on their very own web page under "gospel topic essays" the previously claimed "anti-Mormon literature" is now admitted to be ACTUALLY TRUE ... although still extremely whitewashed in attempt to excuse away the FACT the Mormon leaders had been lying about and hiding this information (and still do to a high extent) from the their members and the world. Even now the Mormon leaders don't teach this ... and MANY other issues ... to their children in Sunday school, their missionaries still leave this information out when teaching about joseph. They are taught to tell half truths in order to convince people .. by the way ...did I mention? … telling half the truth ... or NOT telling the whole truth is called LYING ... your Mormon leaders are LITERALLY documented and verifiably proven liars ... there is no excuse for this. the truth is just that ... THE TRUTH. And the truth is the Mormon leaders are liars. Those are just two examples of documented, proven and verified whitewashing, cover ups, deceptions, and outright lies by the Mormon leaders. There are literally hundreds of "truth Issues" that prove the Mormon leaders are liars and deceivers. If you'd like more examples.. please just ask .. we would love to share. Such as the Book of Abraham… In the gospel topic essays- the leaders of Mormonism literally explain clearly “the papyrus used by Joseph have nothing to do with Abraham and in fact date over 2000 years after Abraham even lived”. Again - not taught to missionaries, investigators, or children. The actual truth is this. Honesty and Integrity are far far more precious than Documented, verified, proven and NOW admitted Mormon lies … not only designed to make you feel special, entitled and important… but designed to rob you from your time, and energy and money… all to support a quasi Christian corporation led by deceiving men. Mormonism teaches and indoctrinates its members to attempt to excuse away the absolutely inexcusable lies and manipulation. I pray the wonderful people of Mormonism wake up to these facts. It truly is So so sad … yet so so revealing. May Our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ open the eyes and ears of these wonderful Mormon people to HIS Truth Light and love. In his name Jesus Christ Amen.
@MormonDiscussion3 ай бұрын
sources for several of the issues - mormondiscussions.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/MormonPrimer7.pdf. And my two cents, is this is a serious rabbit hole that will require you to do research and to look into issues that concern you.
@charlescresap44519 ай бұрын
When you look for problems, you will create what you will need. The basic need is a relationship with the Lord. The LDS Church provides the means to have that. See Alma 37:9. Human frailty is always involved so do your own testimony. This program contains a major batch of BS
@LightWalker228 ай бұрын
Please. Be honest with yourself… look yourself right in the eyes in the mirror ask yourself if you truly are being honest… then go and look for yourself. Why do the leaders of Mormonism continue to NOT teach the fact that Joseph Smith actually used a "rock in a hat" for his “translation” technique? It’s missionaries are taught to NOT shows these facts to investigators. Your leaders do not teach the children this when teaching about how the Book of Mormon came about… if fact the Mormon leaders teach a complete different story propped up with propaganda pictures of Joseph Smith running his hands along gold plates as he dictates words to a scribe. The church leaders know full well this is not the FULL truth … and it’s NOW clearly admitted in the “gospel topic essays” on their very own web site. I was NEVER in 50 years taught this. In fact .. the one time I heard about this from a Christian pastor was in the 1980s while on my mission in NZ … Dallin H Oaks came to our mission Feb 1988 and told us missionaries that “the Joseph with a rock and hat myth” was a lie from the pit of hell designed to destroy the kingdom of god on earth”. Now these so called “Anti-Mormon Lies” are Documented, verified, proven history that the Leaders have been desperately trying to squash for over 180 years! All they can do now is whitewash the ACTUAL truth as best they can. So so sad… yet so revealing. Whitewashing and Not telling the full truth is the literal definition of deception… hello that is called “lying”. The Mormon leaders continue to not teach the FACT joseph smith married 38 plus wives including several teenagers as young as 14, sister combinations, mother daughter combinations, and even women still married to other living men (polyandry) Its missionaries stear far away from these facts, they don’t teach these facts to their investigators, the leaders don’t teach the children the FULL truth when teaching about Joseph Smith. Again - In fact it’s a complete different story propped up with propaganda pictures of Joseph Smith NEVER with more then one wife … They never teach the true stories of Joseph sending men off to missions and then marrying their wives while they are gone. No true stories of Joseph sending letters (like the “happiness letter”) to young teenage girls telling them their family’s will be exalted in heaven if they will merry him - but be destroyed if they don’t. The church leaders know full well they do not teach the FULL truth to their missionaries, or to their investigators, or to their children…. It’s all documented, verified and proven facts. Since 2014 (after being sued and threat of lawsuits). They quietly admit (although still extremely whitewashed) they admit these facts right on their own web site under “gospel topic essays”. Yet in public they STILL teach alternative 1/2 truth (feel good) whitewashed stories of Mormonism … Again… Not telling the full truth is the literal definition of deception… hello that is called “lying”. Even right now this very minute... The false Mormon prophets STILL "steer clear" and attempt to downplay the actual way joseph used a rock in a hat or the FACT he was a polyandry-polygamist. They do not create and distribute pictures, nor do they teach or testify to EVERYONE that Joseph Smith used a rock in a hat to produce the Book of Mormon, or teach how wonderful ALL his wives were. Even though most of his wives have hand written journals that explain about their lives as joseph smith’s wife. The wives (except Emma) are all dismissed into the abyss of LDS Mormonism as if they never existed. In fact LDS Mormonisms pictures and art and stories depict a completely different narrative that is not telling the FULL truth. So innocent people investigating and innocent children are led to believe a completely different narrative ... the propaganda manipulation and deception of Mormonism is truly astonishing and heartbreaking at the same time. The Mormon leaders truly are documented, verified and proven deceivers. Before the internet, the common claim about these subjects were "this is anti-Mormon literature made up by evil men to destroy the Mormon Church" Now - right on their very own web page under "gospel topic essays" the previously claimed "anti-Mormon literature" is now admitted to be ACTUALLY TRUE ... although still extremely whitewashed in attempt to excuse away the FACT the Mormon leaders had been lying about and hiding this information (and still do to a high extent) from the their members and the world. Even now the Mormon leaders don't teach this ... and MANY other issues ... to their children in Sunday school, their missionaries still leave this information out when teaching about joseph. They are taught to tell half truths in order to convince people .. by the way ...did I mention? … telling half the truth ... or NOT telling the whole truth is called LYING ... your Mormon leaders are LITERALLY documented and verifiably proven liars ... there is no excuse for this. the truth is just that ... THE TRUTH. And the truth is the Mormon leaders are liars. Those are just two examples of documented, proven and verified whitewashing, cover ups, deceptions, and outright lies by the Mormon leaders. There are literally hundreds of "truth Issues" that prove the Mormon leaders are liars and deceivers. If you'd like more examples.. please just ask .. we would love to share. Such as the Book of Abraham… In the gospel topic essays- the leaders of Mormonism literally explain clearly “the papyrus used by Joseph have nothing to do with Abraham and in fact date over 2000 years after Abraham even lived”. Again - not taught to missionaries, investigators, or children. The actual truth is this. Honesty and Integrity are far far more precious than Documented, verified, proven and NOW admitted Mormon lies … not only designed to make you feel special, entitled and important… but designed to rob you from your time, and energy and money… all to support a quasi Christian corporation led by deceiving men. Mormonism teaches and indoctrinates its members to attempt to excuse away the absolutely inexcusable lies and manipulation. I pray the wonderful people of Mormonism wake up to these facts. It truly is So so sad … yet so so revealing. May Our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ open the eyes and ears of these wonderful Mormon people to HIS Truth Light and love. In his name Jesus Christ Amen.
@MormonDiscussion3 ай бұрын
at what point does the issues tip the scale and would you give the same benefit of the doubt to Scientology claims or that of the Jehovah's Witnesses?
@sheilahmercer16379 ай бұрын
😂😂😂😂
@DancingQueenie10 ай бұрын
Zzzzzzzzz
@MormonDiscussion10 ай бұрын
Please say more
@DancingQueenie10 ай бұрын
@@MormonDiscussion Ok. The droning voice was soporific.