Streamtronics Thank you!

Thank you! I normally do these lists on shootouts because the makers of said shootouts does not understand how we perceive sound. The single greatest INEXCUSABLE fault they all seem to make is playing a long segment (useless) with PAUSES between them. That is useless in every single way imaginable! Luckily we can remedy this by doing what you just did, but why the makers of these shootouts don't do them from the very beginning is strange beyond reason... We mere mortals require short, two second long (or longer, just keep it SHORT, just to get a taste) segments that seamlessly transitions into an identical and equally short segment with a different microphone.

Totally agree Michael, that's why I do my sound samples short, one after another, and with no pauses in between. Otherwise the information's way less useful. Glad we're on the same page about how it should be done!

Amen, Michael!! Sorry, Jesse - you're not quite getting what he's saying ... ... You've done great recordings, though, so it's just a matter of editing - ie splicing short passages, so they run IMMEDIATELY on from one to the next ... NO pauses! :) Thanks for this ... :)

Thx

Thank you!

Jesse Gimbel are those 421’s on the toms?

@@jamesdoctor8079 Yes ... 421s on the toms

Best fukn Tom mics ever

Love it

av3nger3 amen

Sounds too way too eq, pro studios use the beta or the ev20 for the flat response

L'Quik Shrtz never choose a mic simply because you heard a pro studio uses them. use your own ears. And keep in mind Pro studios have tens of thousands of dollars worth of tone shaping tools us average joes don’t have access to. If you can get the tone you’re looking for out of a mic without piling on eq isn’t that preferable?

yes, it have a Low and hi end shape

Honestly I think the D6 is a bit too EQ'd. I actually own one and in recording they sound good but in the context of a mix it can get lost due to a lack of midrange frequency I find. The D112 is a mic that's overlooked many times and can be heard on songs by periphery and dance gavin dance. The D112 sounds ugly raw but after a bit of processing you can't beat it

Thank you, I'm glad you got what I was going for! It seems that not everyone has.

Thanks so much Rj! I've got a lot more videos like this planned, coming back after a bit of a break. Anything in particular you'd like to see? I'm hoping to do similar videos on snare mics, tom mics, room mics, overheads, etc. and make it a whole series. All just depends what mics I can get my hands on.

Indeed and that's why the RE20 is still a favourite in studio situations and a Audix, for example is more popular in many live environments. As a studio engineer who also does theatre sound, I can understand why many people like a 'pre EQ-ed' mic like the Audix but, the beef that I and many other studio engineers have with it (even for live) is that it forces a certain sound upon the kick drum, that may or not actually fit the kick drum, let alone the style of music. Something that I keep having to tell novice live engineers is that there's no such thing as a 'live kick drum sound'. It's a pet peeve of mine that the 'WOOFFF with TICK' seems to be the standard kick drum sound for live and now there are scores of people that will declare anything that doesn't sound like that 'a bad kick drum sound'. That favourite 'live' kick drum sound might sound impressive on PAs and it might work well for heavy music, but it's not necessarily great for all the other genres. So I prefer a more neutral sounding kick drum mic which doesn't choose the boosts and cuts for me. In a recording situation I will still go through my mic different options to find which works best for that particular kick, in that particular kit, for that particular artist. Besides these options, some of my go to mics are als the Beyer M99 and M88. They are very different sounding. I usually prefer the M99 over the M88 (while the latter is much more popular). The M99 has a nice punchy/gutsy sound on both kick and bass cabs, while the M88 is very deep sounding and would pick up more of the shell. Great as a floor mic too. Anyway, out of all of them in comparison I would've probably used the RE20 for studio applications and my guess is that most live folks would me more impressed by the Audix. I'd prefer to use EQ to get a neutral mic closer to that audix sound, SHOULD I want it. It's not as easy to use EQ to try and get a pre-EQed mix like the Audix to sound neutral. That said, if I had the audix I'm sure that there would be some situations in the studio where it would come out as the favourite. But I very much doubt it would become my go to, like the M99 has. I originally bought the M99 because I couldn't afford an RE20, but it became one of my favourite mics. (note, the M99 has some EQ switches to give it that pre-EQed sound, should you so desire, I've used them on occasion, but it's great to be able to switcch them off).

Thanks Frans!

Bryan Kuban Thanks for watching!

Thanks for watching!

Thank you for watching, I'm glad you found it helpful!

Thank you!

Thanks The Neo- Kalashnikovs! I think you're spot on with your breakdown.

Jesse Gimbel Thanks Jesse :) Rock On bro!

+precisionfort Totally true. I'd assume a lot of those people are also less experienced with working in a mix, versus just hearing drums on their own. The D6 and e602 are both good mics, but they're going to stand out just from the EQ curve. RE20 takes the cake when it comes to making any sound from your kick recording, for example you can easily make it sound like the D6 or e602, but good luck getting the D6 to sound like an RE20!

precisionfort That makes sense as to why people gravitate to the “pre-eq’d” mics. But isn’t that the point of it all to some degree? The less work the better. But I do appreciate the insight you give on why someone could justify using the RE20 just as much as any other mic. Makes me question why I’d buy a different mic at all and not just copy the same eq curve I see on my favorite scooped mic

Is true but is not useful for any kind of genre. It can be helpful in pop music or other with a limited footprint, but I would prefer to capture a larger spectrum and decide later if I want to limited and cut frequencies.

Jorge Benitez Claudio yeah that makes sense. So RE20 takes the cake for you then?

TheMarsilver RE20 is an excellent mic, but I will prefer to use it mostly for Vocals and guitar because the frequency extension is limited under 45 Hz. That mic was planned for Radio, but because it have a good resistance to loud sounds and proximity effect it was started to be used in other scenarios.

Really interesting take George! I think the Beta 52 might sound more rounded to your ear because it scoops out some boxy low mids. Honestly I'd use the 421 somewhat interchangeably with the Beta 52. They don't sound exactly the same but they have a similar amount of presence (though in slightly different high mid spots). Good luck on your purchase - let me know what you ended up with!

odamesucks You're very welcome!

I like those 2 the best as well, e602 the most of the 2, so much driving force in the low end, some scoop in the mids which leaves a lot of room for the snare and toms to sit in and then just a nice crisp attack in the high end to punch through the mix. The e602 can be a little overwhelming in the lows, especially in live mixes if you don't know what you're doing, but with some compression and roll off in the lows they just punch through so easily without having to do too much EQ.

Thanks so much! I’m considering doing more videos like this for snare, floor tom, etc. if I can get my hands on a wide enough assortment. Which are the two you have?

+Tony Martinez I actually think you're better off. The 602 is great as an end goal type sound, but being able to shape a flat mic into that kind of sound lets you do things intentionally and have control, as opposed to being stuck with the sound that might not be perfect for what you're doing.

+Jesse Gimbel I hear ya, I just wish my basic tracking sounded better to begin with. It seems like it's possible to cram almost any sound out of any source material with enough "cheating" from post-processing, but It seems more "pro" and "legit" to get a good/usable sound right from the mics and the pre amps/audio interfaces. (at least that's what Ive heard a lot of professional and respected audio producers and engineers have said.

+Tony Martinez This is generally true. Being a recording engineer is my full time job and it's my goal when tracking a band to try to get things to sound as final as possible during tracking, so everyone is reacting to an accurate picture of what things will sound like. The reason I don't generally include super sculpted kick mics in that is that the placement of that mid scoop needs to really correspond with what the bass guitar is doing. Scooping the kick in a spot that the bass guitar has a lot of momentum is a great way for them to both be heard separately while fitting together. But if I'm using a mic that picks that spot for the dip for me, and does it drastically at that, it gives me no option to move that scoop around if it doesn't happen to be in exactly the perfect spot to complement the rest of the mix. I agree that you can cheat things pretty effectively in post and that just planning for fixing it in the mix should be avoided, but those really scooped mics are actually really difficult to manipulate. Getting the sound of an e602 or d6 from an RE20 is a piece of cake. But with the presence boost in both of the scooped mics, if it's too much it's really tricky to reduce it in a clean way. That being said, those mics are a lot of fun and I'd like an e602. But I did a record with the D6 immediately following this video and it was constant finagling to try to work around the limitation of that drastic sound.

+Jesse Gimbel Well i think my problem isn't the mics I'm using actually. I think it's the fact that my kick drum isn't as awesome as I thought it was! Live, but un-miced, it sounds like john bonham. But once you try to mic it, live it goes feedbacky, and in the studio it goes all hollow and boxy. (with my RE20) I think I have to go all 70's and do a single head approach. Eagles Style.

+Tony Martinez I'd bet the kick isn't the issue! For what it's worth, it was often an RE20 that was used on John Bonham's kick! He used two heads (with no hole in the resonant head), tuned fairly high. Using a single head is totally cool, but doesn't sound like the solution here to me. I've also never heard of a specific kick causing feedback, so if you're getting that it's probably an issue with the gain staging of the mics live, not anything that needs to be adjusted with the kick. The RE20 can definitely have a boxy sound before EQing, and I'd wager that's why a lot of the metalheads comment all over this video that they don't like the RE20. But when a client comes in here and says they want a 70s kick sound, the RE20 is the one I reach for. I wish I could help more on your specific tone, but to me "hollow" is scooped to me, while boxy is too much mids, so I'm not totally sure where you are now and where you're trying to go. It sounds to me like the sound you're getting is actually more Bonham-y and while you appreciate his legacy that type of kick sound might not actually be what you're going for, which is totally cool. If you put a mic deeper in the kick through a hole in the resonant head or with no resonant head at all you'll naturally get more of the click that the e602 has. The closer to the beater you get the more of that presence you'll get, and the less boxy. But if you don't want to change anything at all about your setup than the mic, then something like the e602 will imitate a mic much closer to the beater without actually being closer. At complete disregard for any flexibility in sound, but if it's what you're going for then it's valid. Having both an RE20 and an e602 wouldn't put you in bad shape. And if you're just looking to replace the RE20 and not have both, I wouldn't mind having another RE20 here!

Thanks for watching *****!

I personally like the Beta52a. The D6 has a great punch, but it lacks color, the e602 also has a great punch and it's beefier I say, but it is in no way as balanced as a Beta52a; especially for most live situations such as church bands, traveling school groups, or Rock bands which are probably the more common of public performances. In a recording situation you can easily use an EQ and Compressor to get the Beta52a to get the tones of the other two, but if you want to do it the other way around, trying to get a D6 to sound like the Beta you simply cant without taking out its built in tone.

Reyvan Taunt thanks for your feedback :) I will check that out.

Yup i completely agree,the D6,$199.00 then the e602 $144.00,THE D6 seems to have the perfect blend of everything and the open bass drum sound,where as the e602 has still a top hard punch with a tight compression sound, but more open as well.

christopher dunn I see them the other way around. The D6 seems far less natural to me, and does almost sound compressed already which is tricky to work with in a mix. The e602 sounds much more open to me, and has a better and more useful balance.

zeebazu In a mix the D6 can get lost though, due to the mid scoop. If you had a d6 and a d112 to choose from I don't think you could ever go wrong!

Jaydn Turley With such a massive high end spike I'd think if there were any mic that would be difficult to lose in a mix it'd be the D6. That's actually something that makes it not my favorite mic even for something where you need an exaggerated EQ like metal. The e602 is similar but the boosts are in much more ideal spots for a kick in my opinion.

Jesse Gimbel I have a D6 and a D112, and one goes on the kick and one on the larges floor tom usually...it was more out of budget necessity that i first did this (had to borrow them and make do with the equipment at my disposal) but this has honestly never steered me wrong...usually​ ends up sounding pretty good!

I'm glad I could help!

Agree haha

It's a very nice mic for rock sounds! Not so much for a lot else but it definitely makes quick work of a pre-EQed kick sound.

as does the mxl a55 surprisingly.

I haven't heard of that mic, I'll check it out. From the looks of it the shape is definitely based on the e602 so maybe the sound is too.

Jesse Gimbel Yeah! MXL a55 just sounds amazing for Heavy Metal kick.

I'll check them out!

i like both sennheisers abd the d6.

the 52 is good too

completely dislike the akg

+Daniel Bentley You are absolutely right. It's EQ curve is set that way. It's a generic sound no matter what drum it's in.

+Daniel Bentley On the other hand, it's a real time-saving mic for live situations. In studio with a good placement (not in front of the batter head) you can get a pretty nice sound, especially with drummers that lacks a little "punch" in their playing.

+Daniel Bentley I'm with you. I'll admit sometimes I want my end result in a mix to be something like the D6/e602 sound, but tailoring it myself from a more subtle mic leaves me with way more control. Like +FSBass mentioned scooped mics can help give a little punch to a drummer who's a little lighter on the kick than they should be, or for live situations. But for recording, even if the end result is the right idea I'd still rather get it what I consider the "right way", rather than being stuck with an incredibly specific kick sound and being forced to shape the rest of my mix around it.

I agree, and I also prefer more sub-bass, but maybe this can be solved by the EQ? Btw. any experience with the F6? It goes from 40 Hz - 16 kHz (d6 is 30hz - 15khz) Impedance is also different, SPL is almost the same. So not sure how alike they are...

I use the D6 inside, close to the inner wall of the drum, along with a B52 in the hole... the b52 gives me most of what I need, but nothing catches the deep sub-60 bottom like a D6... I preferred it greatly to my Yamaha subkick for adding the deeper range. The only mic I'm missing from this shootout is the 602... I think I'd like that for similar things.

Phrase yup, same here.

Phrase What's best seems totally subjective here, it's pretty interesting. The D6 has probably the most amount of high end, followed by some combination of the e602, 421, and 52. I own the D112 but unfortunately it doesn't get used a whole lot. The RE20 can be EQed into any kind of sound and is fantastic on its own for lighter sounds.

Maybe for one very specific purpose, sure.

Well I mean by putting a mic inside the kick i'd assume thta the purpose is to get the beater attack, which I feel the D6 was superior and then the outside of the head would be mic'ed with a subkick or a ribbon mic, to get the boom, so I feel that the D6 is perfect but I can see others who dont use two mics may find it a litttle flawed

Putting a mic far inside the kick would definitely be to get a lot more beater attack, and putting it outside of the resonant head would be to get more of the deep low end and less attack. For me, and for a lot of folks it seems, the D6 has too much of a high end spike to be great for an outside mic, and too much of a midrange dip, and the same high end spike, for getting just the beater since it kind of fakes that sound on its own, being completely inside at the beater is pretty papery. This is why I'm talking more about using it as the single mic for a kick drum, because it's got some major factors that make it not so ideal for just beater attack or just low end resonance. So, assuming you're just using one mic on the kick, it gets the very, very specific type of sound that can be great for metal or very dense rock music, but it's not going to be nearly as versatile as almost all of the rest of these microphones, that's what I'm saying when I mean "maybe for one very specific purpose, sure".

I would if there was an issue! I don't have to do things the way you want them to be.

Chill dude, im a random person. it just looks armature-ish... I wont be the last person to comment something like this. dont like it, then disable the comments.

If you're afraid of people replying, don't comment in the first place!

what? lmao, whos afraid? dude for future purposes, when you see a comment you dont like, just delete it or ignore it. peace.

romensaichi Whether it looks "armature-ish" or not,(whatever that means) it's about the sound. Not how the persons setup looks. It's Amature-ish. lol