Same here. And I even don't drink espresso 😅

eBay is your friend. I picked up a Sage Dual Boiler (new + boxed) for half retail price

Same

@@uqi1412 The moka pot has a place in every kitchen, imo. If you don't have an espresso set up, its gets you in the neighborhood and its enough of its own thing that it's worth having even if you do.

Same.

Did you mean Jimseven?

@@venkatadinesh3495 Did you mean, Kingseven?

You could totally remix the " it's just' it's just, I feel like." at 35:28 for an intro or hook. Love it.

Well when you say it like that it sounds a bit naughty doesn't it...

First single off the album: bruteforce

At £1500 I'd expect a factory setting off 92° C brew temp, 9 bar pump pressure and a functional PID for temp control.... why, because these features are baseline for good coffee

Absolutely, you know the more you spend on these machines the more you have to tinker with them to get them right.. I have a gaggia classic that works just fine.. also did you ever notice that the end result, no one shows what the coffee looks like in the cup. I'm sure a lot of them are flat without any crema.. that's why they never show them IMHO

This price range is tricky. Since they are still manual machines, you would be expected to operate it yourself, which means you know coffee quite a bit, which means you know a good grinder > good espresso machine. At $2000 dollars, you probably have a decent grinder already, and you are invested in coffee whether it's professional or home. Since people know coffee at this price range, it makes no sense not to go the extra miles to make sure it works to standard out of the box. So all of these little adjustment make no sense, normally. From my experience however, pro-sumers machines at this price points are most often deployed at office. Someone in the process is a coffee enthusiast with enough influence to make the company buys a decent $2000 manual machines and a separate grinder. They are fuzzy, but not fuzzy enough to actually do something about the little problems needed to be ironed out as it is not their money at the end of the day and they don't want to touch company's property.

Amen @@skylerpolendina7517

Is it perhaps possible that these machines are being calibrated (mis)using a similar device to the Scace? Where perhaps they aren't accounting for the drop in pressure, so are overshooting on the valve? I have a Breville DB and it had the same issue of hitting 10.5 bars out of the box.

​@@Shottty101 You think all these companies are doing it wrong? 10 bar at pump and 9 at group head is industry standard.

Thanks for the update on Mara X other control feature A great video with detail on selected machines

The odd variances in steam pressure would probably be fixed if it was running in steam priority (full h/x mode)

Hi James, Thanks for the video. Quick tip on the MaraX in brew priority mode. The machine will build boiler pressure automatically to ~1.5 bar after pulling a shot to give you good steaming performance. If the machine has been idling in brew priority mode and you want to steam milk, you can just flush the group head for a second and the steam will build back to 1.5 bar pretty quickly. It's definitely a confusing machine but it has some nice features once you get used to it. Lelit definitely did not include very good instructions to explain how this all works.

@@chriscoleman2489 And they all state that a switch is a war crime.

@@alexlazaridisf.7276 πάρτε ένα Rancillio Silvia να σωθείτε. Κάνει παπάδες

I’ve binged his videos as well and use a drip coffee machine too😂

So who did you ask to buy you a burr grinder for Christmas? It's ok, it starts like that for all of us. You can talk about it, you're amongst friends.

I did the sane a few weeks ago. I just got a hario v60 and I have always had a blade grinder but now am looking to get a burr grinder.

You can get a sweet setup for $100 that’ll do 100x better coffee than most coffee makers. A v60 or a chemex or an aeropress, and then an oxo burr grinder (goes on sale for $60 every few months) or a baratza encore (usually found for $90 on sale) and you’ll have a basic setup that will never fail you in terms of texture and taste.

😂😂😂😂me 2

That’s exactly what I often say to my wife.

@@ninovulkan9815 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

@@ninovulkan9815 wait what?!🤔🤨😅

Yeah, Rancilio is a weird company. I don't know if they just don't do enough testing or if they lack UX person on their design teams but all of their products have weird quirks. Kind of like I'm buying a prototype. Very high-quality components, but confusing execution.

Well yes but on the regular silvia, the lip is much smaller. I can see that it still could go wrong, but usually then you're so close to the brim that it probably would go wrong anyway (at least for me).

@@slicedtoad I'd say it's because their priorities are different compared to other manufacturers. Other manufacturers place emphasis on design where Rancilio appears to prioritise the engineering and componentry. I had my Silvia V6 open recently and it's no contest; it's easilly the most beautifully engineered and well built in its price class, but the UX is clearly done by one of the engineers and not a design professional, or a design professional with many constraints placed on them. There's a weird sort of elegance in its brutalism.

@@FlorianLinscheid the lip on my V6 is around 5mm tall like the pro. If the drip tray goes even a little over halt full you're almost guaranteed a mess.

@@benanderson89 To be honest I don't know which version I have. Probably V3 or something. The lip is also 5 mm high but I'm quite sure the angle is smaller than shown in the video. Anyway I tried it and had more difficulty carrying it to the sink than pulling it out. But hey that's just me and I fully agree with your other points.

I've had 2 Breville machines, inc the Bambino, both of them shat the bed within 18 months. They're disposable trash. Got the Silvia Pro and it's been fine for about 3 years now. He's right when he says the Breville/Sage stuff just doesn't have the longevity.

This is interesting to know. Cheers.

It's funny because i just watched it and am going to go and retweak it tomorrow because i'm experiencing the same thing. Lets hope it helps as well.

I’d love to know how to change this! I’ve got the Appartamento too. Where did you learn how to mod it?

@@ibriggie kzfaq.info/get/bejne/sLiVibZ6y5nac4k.html

I have a Vibiemme Super and I never thought about pressure until I watched this video. I now understand what is going on! I am also wondering where you can buy such a testing device.

Same!!! Made a coffee and started watching. Such a treat.

I agree on lever comparisons. For years I pulled ristretto shots on an old Arrarex Caravel (I actually have four of these, and have considered designing an induction heating system for them to replace the "stove burner" that they come with) and grew to love the kind of control you get with a manual lever, especially on a pure espresso shot. I had a couple of HX machines, but was never really all that happy with the temperature management chase on those. Ended up with a first generation Londinium L1, built by Fracino around the venerable Bosco level group, and have been nothing but happy with it.

What does he incite? Violence?

@@RiotBadger This comment is lubricous.

@@gospelofrye6881 😏

I would like to see this in practice. Don't you want to make a video of how you prepare espresso? Thank you. Have a good time .

Hi, I’m about to buy an espresso machine and I would love to hear what you think of your Breville Barista Express after one year. Would you recommend it? Thanks in advance!

@@Conservator. Great machine - I accidentally killed mine a few days ago (user error on my part) after more than 4 years. Got mine for a great price too so quite sad!

@@0Mugle0 Oops, I’m sorry to hear that. Thanks for your reply.

@@Conservator. Just wanted to chime in here. My spouse and I are both former coffee industry professionals (he, a Q-Grader, and I, a former latte art trainer) and we've had a Breville Barista Express for 3 years. It's an excellent entry level home espresso machine. If you time your purchase just right with holiday sales, it sometimes is sold for as little as $500 US. However, I wouldn't buy it unless you've already worked with a proper industrial espresso machine in a cafe or restaurant setting, as a few aspects of it are rather finicky. Knowing how a professional espresso machine actually works goes a long way in getting exactly what you desire from the Breville, but that also rings true for any of the machines mentioned in this video.

@@i.liad.a Hi Ada, Thank you very much for your reply and advice! I’ve ended up buying a Rancilio Silvia (non pro without PID controller) and Graef grinder in one set. The Rancilio is ok but the Graef can’t produce espresso grinds consistently. Therefore I’ve bought a Compak K3 which solved that. I bought them all second hand for about €500 here in the Netherlands. It took some (a lot tbh ;) trial and error before I managed to be able to brew reasonable to good espresso’s consistently but I’ve figured it out now. KZfaq has been very helpful understanding grinding, puck prep, pressure, temperature pre-infusion etc. I’d love to practice with latte art but I only drink espresso’s. I have foamed some milk a few times, just for fun though. Yesterday I got some cacao powder to make chocolate milk and to start practicing. The first one was a bit of a fiasco (milk was way too foamy) but hey, if it was easy, there would be no challenge! 😁 Thanks again!

Agreed. I always struggle to get it out nice and straight. Lucky I don’t need to empty it much though. Love my Mara X. Just wished it was as quiet as the day I got it! Had the pump changed but still the same. Now I need to research how to lower the pressure. Looking forward to losing that bitterness.

@@apllella I'm considering the same machine, do you wish you had considered anything else? I'm trying to grasp the comparisons of if it'd be worth it for me to save money getting Victoria to put rest towards grinder, or if it's better to get the Elizabeth for the similar price point

@@andreasporsborg3438 All done and now running at 9 bar. It does make a difference.

@@LastAphelion I think it’s a great machine if you want temperature stability and barely steam milk in a device that looks cool. E61. If you steam quite a bit I would look elsewhere. I found it frustrating making 3 different drinks on the weekend using decaf/almond milk/diary/etc. but to make my 1-2 espresso per day it is perfect for the price. My next upgrade will be a grinder and then a dual boiler pressure profiling machine when I have more money then sense. This is still easier then a single boiler to steam milk though.

@@apllella is dual boiler pressure profiling maybe bianca worth pay more for home use ? or should i stick mara x

Not „i quite like the feet”?

Rather “I’m frustrated” :-)

Or "Stop if you've heard this before"?

LEVER LEVER LEVER LEVER

LEVER LEVER LEVER LEVER

LEVER LEVER LEVER LEVER Please!

I’m becoming more convinced that a lever machine is the way to go for me. Small kitchen, smallish budget all points to a lever plus it’s a more interactive way to brew an espresso.

@@m70mlg Exactly. I didn't want to spend all that money and in the end I can only press 3 buttons. I'm quite happy with the La Pavoni and a Kinu hand mill and all the ways they let me play. Hitting the right brew temperature is quite finicky and time consuming, but other machines in that price range would probably not be consistent with that either.

i didnt know i can do a spit take without drinking water.... now I do

get Vaatividya in here

Amazing! Considering I own the appartamento, I endorse this statement 😂

Another Dark Souls boss that I will defeat on my 927th attempt.

Does the espresso taste better after you lowered the OPV setting?

Just adjusted mine and it seems to pump got a little bit louder by doing so? Did you notice the same? Or am I making this up :D

@Alcarin Not the one you asked, but I just did the same and for the first time I was able to dial in my shot nicely after the adjustment... I also changed grinder burrs, so I was underextracted first but after 1 minor adjustment and 18 in 36 our in 30s (from lever pull) the shot was great!

I also own a Mara-X and agree with pretty much everything that's already been said. All in all a great espresso machine like all of these. I seem to recall the factory OPV setting being 10bar which explains why it's there, but also agree that it should be lower, but is easy to adjust. Steam is.. fine. not super fast, but easy to use, though the steam pressure does sometimes fall too low on the second coffee sometimes causing the milk to do the scream of death and commit hari kari (a short pause between steaming (30 seconds) resolves this). The truth though is, I've had better coffee from this machine than anything I've owned before. I've been in the entry level breville/sunbeam ranges for the last 10+ years due to budget constraints (which have been lovely given their price) so the upgrade to a "proper" machine has been very nice. Mara-X 10/10, would recommend, given price, and performance.

@@Erumesson I adjusted the grind and the taste is awesome. Not a big difference though. The big upside is that there is less channeling because the pressure is not as extreme. So more consistency!

Certainly says something about the longevity if you’re expecting to buy it again, though!

@@zbronstein3901 I think the "buy again" refers to the brand in general, or if they consider upgrading to the next higher model of espresso machine.

Came here to say the same.

This is brilliant! I have no idea why I didn't think of that, great tip!

Do you lose the preinfuse phase then? Does that create any issues?

As pointed out by others, I've found the downside of doing this is losing that gentle pre-infusion phase. Sure, the vibe pump has a natural ramp, but you're right up there pretty quickly. Taste wise, I have preferred the trade-off of softer pre-infusion followed by over pressure for the remainder of the shot. It is annoying, because I feel like you're really left choosing between different ways to destroy your puck.

@@jameshoffmann Don't worry with a bit more practice, you'll be doing it like a pro!!! :). Another lazy, but messy tip to see the effect, prior to doing the full Slayer mod is to run it at 9bar as normal, but crack open the hot water tap just a bit (use a little jug to catch the runoff => no waste). By manipulating how much you hold it open, you can increase/decrease pressure on the puck whatever way you want emulating the results of the slayer mod without any mod at all.

Really? I just watched the whole thing and had no idea it was that long. I better get moving.

Same.... 😕

His voice is so soothing and his videos aren’t full of ads breaks. Watch it again and it’ll help you fall asleep. I did that many times before

Literally me saying this to my wife as soon as I got to bed and saw the notification

I just stopped half way and picked up again in the morning! 😉

@Apple Pear Hello. Fellow Silvia V3 user here with an aftermarket PID from SCG. I make cortados and flat whites daily. I am considering the Pro just for the dual boiler aspect. Looked at reviews on it. Is it fair to say that all you get with the Pro is the dual boiler and a built in PID? Are there any other improvements that you noticed? Did they fix the goofy hex screw at the bottom of the screen?

loved my Silvia (that I installed a PID one is) & Rocky and cleaned it like it was a Slayer, but my Apartmento & Fausto is next level. Can't even compare in terms of consistency (thermal mass).

#ChasingTheDragon

Best Espresso Machines Under 5 DOGE

And for some unkown reason, still will be set up at too high a pressure.

I was leaning towards this machine, till I learned it is not a forever machine the Breville won't send you parts to fix it after warranty.

I’ve had a Silvia for over a decade as well. The Silvia Pro was only released early 2020.

Well, the price point and feature of this machine is excellent. How about breville customer service, the part availability?

I bought a BDB about 2 years ago and it has never missed a beat. They are so easy to set up and use, incredible value for money. My point of reference is a La Cimbali Junior which I still own but never use. I got fed up of waiting for ever for it to warm up and regular expensive servicing to keep it running at its best. I had to replace the pump also at $$$. This said the finish on the BDB is far inferior and scratches easily but at the price point it is not a surprise. I got myself a Eureka grinder and I would highly recommend the set up to anyone. For $2kAUD you can produce cafe quality coffee 😀

@@iainstewart2102 I am here because we have just returned our Barista Pro. It looks great and of course it is much cheaper than those here but, the output was really inconsistent from shot to shot. It could be user error but my sense is the tolerances are simply not good enough. Easy to use though and got us hooked on espresso as a hobby so not all bad!

it's cheap is AUS because it's australia company

@@steveholden9139 hey Steve - do you mind telling me which Eureka grinder you have? I’m looking to replace my Breville barista to the dual boiler (currently $1000 at jbhifi) and am torn about grinder choice… thanks in advance :)

Not beautiful but adequate feet XD

Really disappointed that feet didn’t play into final decisions.

Hoffmann feet comment super cut when

James is dangerously based

So James is that type of weirdo that likes feet?

Have you looked at the Bezzera bz10? Looks similar to the Mara X but heats up a lot quicker apparently

Nah, the Breville repair is not that hard. It’s intimidating maybe, but once you get all the tiny haskets located it’s just as easy as pulling straws!

A super underrated feature to be sure.

I’ve had one of these machines for 5yrs now and it’s used every day to make 9 to 10 coffees with no fuss, it’s an amazing machine if you love coffee ☕️ I would fully recommend Sage machine, 👍🏻☕️🥇

That seals the deal!

You have to take tank out? You can’t just fill them from the top like the sage? I think all you’re saying is the sage has a tank that doesn’t come out and the rest do. They all fill from the top.

@@ironcucumber9391 yeah, but the sage fills from the front down a funnel/chute instead of pouring directly in. You can have most of the machine under a cabinet and still be easily able to refill the tank without moving the machine.

Slightly open the hot water knob during extraction and you can adjust your pressure during the shot. My DB delivers 9 bar from the factory, but I can easily bring it down to 5 during the shot with the trick mentioned.

@@abraxa20 so is this different to the slayer mod?

@@atastycloud it gives a similar result to the slayer mod (precursor might be the best description), but you don't need to mod your machine at all to use it. The slayer mod controls the flow and pressure, not just the pressure the way cracking the hot water does.

Agree

There's no reason the computer couldn't be connected to a toggle switch with the same low voltage signalling. The start stop is under user control either way. For the brew switch I think I would actually like the momentary behaviour better, though the rocker design is the wrong affordance for a momentary switch, which is I think the main that annoys James. It should be visually different type of switch if it's momentary because most of everyone's experience with switches that look like that is that they toggle and stay toggled until someone changes them.

@@spudd86 Rancillo just need to either hire an Industrial Designer, or replace the one they currently have.

Maybe it's so the pump isn't accidentally running when the machine turns on? Same goes if the steam valve is open and machine switched on. Probably like child safety features???

I’m not an engineer but thought the same thing. Those two scenarios were running through my head.

It's for EU regulation, power consumption of electric appliances, not electric arcing, or anything related to reliability - adding a whole board of electronics would make it less reliable than a single good old kachunking toggle switch. With the momentary switch, having it shut of on a timer is much simpler. EU regulations mandates automatic shutdown after 30 minute idle time. For example the US version of the Gaggia Classic has good old toggle switches, but the EU version does not, the EU appliance shuts off automatically after 20 minutes (basically shuts it off when it's finally up to temp), the US version stays on till you turn it off.

Also I'd like to see a comparison between heavily modded 500 GBP machine (Gaggia / Sylvia) vs unmodded 1500 GBP machine. To be honest the more expensive machines still have too many downsides for the price range. I'd expect that for that price range they're flawless prosumer machines and they aren't - machine is producing pressure that is too high? We apparently already know that the target is 9 bars - is it really that hard to produce a machine in that price range to produce 9 bars?

@@TodorKatsarski It’s curious this channel hasn’t produced any follow-up industry/market review featuring machines that can address and resolve the problematic issues that were raised during this review, and as I suggested. Is it because such products that can withstand authentic expert scrutiny don’t actually exist? I’m new to this market, but I haven’t seen the product line-up and review process that impresses and convinces me enough to make any such higher-end purchase as of yet. Cheers~

@@BigMikeGuitar I'd have liked to see the Lelit Elizabeth in this line up vs. the Mara x.

​@@tugmeboat Basically ease of use vs hands on.

Where is the 3000 pounds range list?

Same here I've always heard that vibrations pumps need higher pressure than volumetric!! I dont know what to believe anymore

There is a video on KZfaq where Bezzera explains in the factory why vibration pumps need to be set higher for the same flow. The Profitec, Bezzera Magica, Rocket Giotto, ECM heat exchangers are all almost the same machines. To change the pressure you only have to adjust one little screw inside. Here is the explanation from the manufacturer himself!: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/e5qpZ5B2l8ewY4k.html

I have Ascaso Steel Uno from 2013 that works perfectly (with PID) and with portafilter measurement it was putting out 12.8 bar in brewing. I modded the OPV and now perfect max of 9 bar, and much better shots. I spoke with tech lead from Ascaso and he said the higher pressure was needed. I said no way and there’s no way the shots are better at high pressure.

The vibration pumps in these machines do not allow a constant pressure profile that the modern commercial machines support. They are designed to not even need an OPV except as a safety measure to protect the pump if the puck prep is REALLY bad! The key is that, historically, surveys never typically favored a commercial 9 Bar setup over a Vibration Pump. Yes, there were differences, but there was no definitive preference! Profitec/ECM is typically the top-end of the manufacturers. They are using a pump (Ulka EX5) that emulates the characteristics of a Spring-lever machine that peaked at 11 Bars, and ended a shot at 5 Bars... These machines are typically regarded as having taste characteristics that are generally favorable compared to the standard characteristics of a 9 Bar extraction. James tends to prefer lighter roasts, which have different extraction characteristics to the normal espresso. He prefers pour-over to espresso in general! All of this should be factored into this analysis!

@@waoneill Yes, I agree with you. I have an Isomac and I've messed quite a bit with the OPV. I find the espresso tasting better with the OPV set to 10 Bar. And the real extraction pressure is down to how fine I've ground the beans. I plan to replace the Isomac with a Profitec next, the build quality on an Isomac is disappointing.

:D

You could see the over-pressured steam out of his ears.

@@MrLiguinii Probably touching 10 bar...

I think he's happier with the pressure than I would have guessed

@@johnmalin4933 @30:33 I'm so close to what I want but I'm not THERE..... Said every coffee obsessed person ever

I also have one of these and I love most things about it, except wondering how long is going to last, because it does indeed feel less substantial than the other machines. That said, despite the materials they've used, it's seemingly very thoughtfully made.

Going on 3 years with mine. No problems so far (knock on wood). It seems to me that the important parts (pumps, heaters, etc.) are well made and metal where the high touch ones are plastic. Makes a great espresso and flat white for my tastes, although I do struggle to dial in new coffees (likely user error).

Pfft you don't leave your espresso machine fully poweered up during waking hours? Jeez how many coffees are you drinking a day, must be hardly more than 10!

Sorry to reply to such an old comment, but thanks for mentioning this. I thought maybe I missed that detail in the video.

If for some reason you circle back to this ancient comment, do you mind me asking what your upgrade path to the Sage dual boiler was, and how different an experience was it from those upgrades? I'm very early in this journey (just got a DTP) and curious what these bigger, more expensive machines get you in a real life setting.

@@BokBarber hesitant to respond if you're just starting out as I don't want to put you on the wrong path, either - path A: coffee that you enjoy or - path B: coffee as a hobby. Coffee being a hobby is a slippery slope with potentially your hard earned money sat at the top. 1) Biggest upgrade I ever made right out the bat - freshly roasted beans. I'm not talking a bag that says it's fresh, I mean that the bag should have a "roasted on" date otherwise don't bother. 2) I had a stove top for and cheap hand grinder for many years. I even got a stove top milk frother. Loved it and still use it but it's not cafe quality and I enjoy making drinks for people of that standard. 3) I upgraded the grinder to an old Spong. No2 as it was much faster and serving guests was getting awkward with my cheap hand grinder. 4) started on the slippery slope and realised I could not get crema with a stove top so got a Rok manual espresso maker. Loved that it was all non electric with my hand grinder. Fresh beans made the biggest difference here. But it got more awkward making drinks for guests as it only took longer to make more than one drink. 5) further down the slope and more research tells you that the grinder is king (after fresh beans). So I got a Mazzer SuperJolly to speed up serving and to get the best espresso possible. I was hooked now, bought a naked porta filter etc and made some great shots. 6) I spent a lot of time brushing out the doser on my Mazzer so modded the hell out of it (it's meant for a large cafe not my kitchen) 7) I needed a proper steam wand and coffee machine and got a La Pavoni Europiccola. I immediately modded the steam wand tip and other bits. 8) thousands of mods later, it still took ages to make a coffee and I was considering basically rebuilding the machine to fit PIDs etc. By this point people don't ask me for a coffee and my parents bring their own INSTANT round to my house rather than watch to them what looks like an amateur science experiment when I make them one. 9) Took the plunge with the sage DB. Instant heat up, can steam at the same time as pulling a shot, no need to mod it and get a soldering iron out. Works better than all before right out of the box with less faff. Won't look back. Personally I love that it's got a 28mm portafilter too. 10) splurged on a Nieche Zero as the modded Mazzer was not great for single dose. I now make a coffee quicker than my wife makes tea (factoring boil and a proper brew time). I will say that everything bar the Neiche was 2nd or 3rd hand on ebay. Sorry for the long response but you did ask and as you can tell I chose "path B"...

@@arr21000 Thanks for the reply! That was legitimately a great read. I'm personally way, way earlier along than this, to the point that I barely exist. Essentially: 1) Started binging James Hoffman videos over the summer. At this point I was already grinding my own beans for pour-over coffee in the morning, using what I assumed to be a decent electric grinder. I had invested the mental energy into dialing this process in long ago. I cared enough to get a decent cup in the morning and not use pods, but it was nothing like a hobby. The Hoffman videos put the idea of espresso in the back of my brain but not in a serious way at that time. 2) Left it alone for a bit. Then started watching Hoffman again over the winter. Watched tutorials on how to dial in espresso, despite having only ever drank a straight espresso shot at a cafe maybe once. I was starting to get intrigued by the scientific parts of the process. 3) At this point, I was vaguely weighing the idea of getting an espresso machine, but the price of entry for a decent one held me back. I wasn't going to spend hundreds of dollars to dive into a hobby I might not even like. 4) That's where I probably would've left it, except that by sheer happenstance I came across a Breville DTP at a recycle center last weekend. It was so absurdly cheap that I had to pick it up and see if it worked. I enjoy restoring electronics and so figured that if there were only some minor fixable problem I'd have struck gold. Turns out that the only thing wrong with it was that it was missing its porta-filter and tamp. I descaled and thoroughly cleaned the machine, sent away for the missing parts and I just like that have a fully working entry level 15 bar espresso machine in my kitchen. That's where I'm at as of this week. I've pretty much been thrust into this world at breakneck pace thanks to a charming internet Brit and a timely thrifting score. I discovered immediately that my electric grinder isn't capable of espresso grinds at all. My old hand grinder works, and I was able to dial it in and get a couple acceptable shots out of some cheap Aldi organic beans, in that my shot times were around 30 seconds for a 1:2 extraction with about 16.5g of coffee (they even produced some crema!) Even with those cheap beans I don't hate the taste, so I'm excited to try and find some good stuff soon... though my rational brain is telling me to pace myself and work my way up to really good stuff. I'm not in danger of buying a real high-end espresso machine yet, given that I just got this one in line three days ago. I was only curious if you had worked your way up the Breville/Sage line (or from a more entry level machine) how it may have improved your quality of life in terms of making friends/family drinks. Like, if it was a big step or if diminishing returns had started to set in. Even a few days into this, I am noticing that getting a good shot feels more like a high school chemistry lab experiment than "making coffee" as I'm traditionally used to, and I don't dislike that, but if I had a bunch of people over I could see it being an issue. I'm not planning on spending three hours making everyone lattes every time I have people over. If anything, I'll probably be upgrading my grinder soon. I'm going to give it a month and see if I fall off this horse first. I can still get out cheap. If I'm still interested a month down the road (or the major hurdle from keeping me interested is having to hand grind beans for 10 minutes straight before every espresso shot) then I'll sink some real money into it. I could see this becoming a hobby for me, but I'm generally pretty good at knowing when to call good enough good enough, so I'm not too worried about getting lost down the rabbit hole just yet. Time will tell.

I think it's just hit or miss whether you get one from the factory with the OPV set incorrectly. I have the BBE and there are many who complain the factory pressure is too high, but mine has been fine.

I suspect James is a man to just fix the OPV and get the best of both worlds. He's talked about modding these things on Gaggias etc in the past.

@@chemistrykrang8065 That was my take. If it's me, I don't want to have to open and fiddle with the internals of the machine. I just want something that makes great coffee out of the box.

@@haveyouhuggedaginger Yeah you absolutely shouldn't need to to get good results... but I can totally see that a technically confident person would see fixing an OPV as something they'd do if they otherwise liked the machine better.

@@Dvw87also I think they have an advantage: you always press the button down, which is the more ergonomic way to press a button at that height.

I just got the Silvia Pro X a week or so ago. While the aesthetics aren't amazing, the machine does absolutely everything well, and it has a ton of really nice features. It's my first home espresso machine, and I'm glad I waited to get something like this instead of going through lower quality options and working up. It pulls shots perfectly, the steam wand is surprisingly powerful and fast...maybe not mod-bar fast, but way faster than I'd expect from a home machine. If I had to make complaints (other than the ones James mentioned, which are mostly valid but not intrusive enough to worry about IMHO), I'd say the shot timer should stay up longer in case I want to put together my drink before I log my shot time; the menu system sucks, and I need to use the manual to remember what each thing is; and I wish it was a little prettier...maybe some wood handles or an inlay, or rounded corners...something.

gave me some Tarantino vibes

😂

"feet are not always done well"

HE EVEN SAID IT TWICE PLS

I have a $2500 machine and... I always want to replace its feet. So yeah, good feet are a thing. lol

Update: I've since saved my pennies, got a DF64 grinder and am about to purchase an ECM Mechanica V Slim... turns out the pulling a shot and steaming at the same time has become more important to me because I have a 1 year old who I can't take my eyes off of for more than 10 seconds... can't wait for that steam mode any longer!

That’s very useful information, thank you!

I’m looking into buying one of these. Which one would you recommend between the 3 & why? Hoping to get one soon !

Nice! I got mine used and bought a b-grade Sette 270wi with left over cash. I' very happy with the combination.

Here in Aus there is a deal today to get the dual boiler for AU$849 (converts to 464 UK pounds)

How do you like it, Do you feel like anything competes with the Niche now

It still is cheap plastic machine

This has not been my experience. After about 5 years I started having proper issues with it. My local espresso repairshop hates fixing these machines and didn’t do a good job with it. After about 8years it died. Except it didn’t because I found another dead one and scavenged some parts and it is still going. But messing with the internals of this machine is not for everyone!! I would much prefer a machine that can be easily repaired and will last me a lifetime.

The flow profiling means the Bianca is just a better buy at that price point than the two rotary pump machines you mentioned. The vibration pump versions you mentioned are slightly cheaper for worse machines.

@@elganpowell9552 Exactly, which would further emphasise its value if compared against machines like that in the £2000 price bracket. I think there are a few more machines that would be worth comparing too

@@bentaylor459 What else would you consider since I am in the market for one

A cheap smart plug from Amazon can turn on the machine for you at a set time. Potential solution there.

You are right aaron. I have a smart plug. Mine is set to turn on every morning at 7am and to turn off a 9am. Problem solved

@@furiousbane I even start mine from my car. When I get home, the machine is ready 👍

Sage barista pro, 3, 2, 1, brew.

Lol.. the replies have completely missed the humor in the comment.

Nice to hear, but I also want to put the „4 years“ for longevity into perspective. I own an ECM Giotto (the „consumer“ ECM models are now the „Rocket“ brand) since 2011 and I bought it used for 500€, so it is a 2005 model. Sure, I did replace some gaskets an small parts in the E61 brewing unit at some point, but those parts were well below 100€ in total and I consider that service, not repair. The machine is still going perfectly and makes the best coffee - after 19 years.

Interesting! I’ve actually read reviews that steered me away from it for the exact reason James said: it’s not meant to be opened. Some reviews said they had issues and it couldn’t be repaired so they had to buy a new one. Some users have had issues more than once and after two Breville machines moved to a Profitec where they could purchase parts and repair it themselves. Glad to hear that you have had success repairing the Breville.

@@matthewpringle164 yeah, to be honest with you, the model I have is the one that has an issue with the steam pump not working after running the de-scaling program, so it didn’t work for a few weeks, then I noticed some steam leaking into the gauge. I contacted Breville and they wanted to charge me $500 + shipping and parts to service it, so I decided to get a gasket service kit for like $40 and taking the tisk of DIY eith the help of KZfaq. It is really not hard if you jnow what you’re doing. In my case I had no idea what I was getting into and as I have poor vision I had a hard time with those hose fasteners! I was so frustrated, but I actually made it through and the steam valve mysteriously worked again a couple of days later. Now I learned; not to rin the de-scale program and do It manually if needed and now I have a method to replace the gaskets when needed. Is not a user friendly process the first time, but at least it’s not handicapped by the manufacturer and well I have saved lots of money anyways.

@@rp.aguilera I agree, I was scared of breville "reliability" or the future of repair to be more exact but there are a lot of videos and information out there on home-barista. I used to have the infuser and bambino plus. They didn't get hot enough for light roasts. I don't mind DIY so i'm taking the leap. I'm able to get a new BDB at 30% off and put it on a card that adds and extra 2 year warranty. So 4 year warranty. Most of the problems i've seen are just o-rings going out after a few years. I actually used to have the MaraX and it really annoyed me that if the water tank indicator turned on mid shot you need to refill the tank which mean waiting for the boiler to heat up again. I've been in and out a lot of machines. I had a gaggia classic and now into a Silvia w/ PID. I actually liked the Classic better because there was less water waste when temp surfing and because the boiler was smaller it was a lot quicker to recover.

@@ChristopherMichaelR that’s pretty cool man. You have way more experience than I have with espresso machines. For me the BDB it’s been my gateway machine for coffee in general and to be fair I enjoy using it, heck, I even enjoy doing maintenance on it!

Exactly. Got my Serie Nera for $500 (US) off on an open-box sale. Got the bottomless portafilter and lowered the brew pressure to avoid channeling. The brew pressure really is too high on the Appartamento out of the box. I have not adjusted the steam pressure, which is super powerful for milk drinks (now with a 2-hole tip on the Nera). I just have to do a long flush before brewing to ensure the brew temperature is not too high. Cannot complain. Makes excellent coffee and looks great. Could it be further tweaked to produce better shots? Probably. But it really isn’t necessary because the average shot tastes very good, whether in a straight shot, or in an Americano or milky drink. James is right that it likely isn’t worth upgrading to any of the other featured machines if you’ve dialed in your machine. I’m not sure I would upgrade to any other prosumer machine period at this point. The advantage I would gain would be marginal and not worth it given my wants and routine.

Yeah, hard to imagine someone could be that dumb.

Because Sage does alot of high end home appliances. And if someone would have upgraded from a fully automatic or a capsule, there is a place to fill milk. And sage doesn't want people to mistaken this. Because Sage dual boiler watertank can be access from the back too. It might cause confusion.

@@timzlow Good points

Funny but it’s not on the canadian version ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Well I've been following some PC moders channels and they did just that in a water cooling loop... You can guess how it ended.

A bit if a late question.. do you happen to know if the Pro 600 has the same issue? Thanks!

@@felix111 I've never heard of that problem with a 600. From the photograph images of 600 interior, its two boilers are mounted vertically, and the boilers' high temperature surfaces, or end plates, are facing away where the two SSRs are mounted. On top of that, what seems to supposedly make a big difference from what we have in a 500 PID machines is that the two SSRs in the 600 are mounted on a bracket that seems to be made of aluminum, a much better metal for heat conducting and dissipation than stainless steel, and that bracket has a much, much greater surface area to dump heat to the ambient air. I would not be surprised if 600 owners never complain about heater cut out due to SSR failure.

@@triod371 Thank you I appreciate

I wish I had read this before I bought mine! I'm on my second SSR replacement in 1.5 years of ownership. This is an extremely frustrating engineering failure and my dealer says the manufacturer is washing their hands of the issue. May I ask where you relocated yours to, and whether you had enough slack with existing wiring? Thanks!

funny that was my exact thought - that this was perfect for a fire- and - forget process

Binge watch him for a month now I have multiple brewing tool and coffee beans