Canadians know all about Robertson (Square Drive). There is no other kind. When I get Philips as part of a mounting kit, I discard them immediately.

Here in Canada, I have always used Robertson screws. They come in 4 sizes with a different colour handle for each. Yellow, small, green medium, red regular, and black large. I routinely toss Phillips and Flat into the garbage where they belong. I think the Square ones you showed are very much the same as Robertson.

I've been doing a lot of RV maintenance over the last 18 years and find that manufacturers use Robertson screws (when they're not using a kajillion staples). I've cammed out of a lot of Robertson screws and rounded the corners of a lot of bits in that time and don't use Robertson screws on my wood projects for that reason. I've switched to Torx-head screws and bits exclusively for projects. I've found that the quality screws that I buy come in either T20, usually for the smaller ones, or T25, and that size is almost always marked on the plastic (reusable, covered) box. I think I've cammed out 2 or 3 screws, and I throw away the bits only after many, many screws. The boxes usually have the correct sized Torx bit inside. Also, I have found that Torx bits fit the screw-heads so tightly that I have to use lock-in bit holders on my drivers or I risk leaving the bit in the screw when I pull the driver away.

With all due respect, I believe the torx are less prone to cam out than what McFeeely's says. Years ago I bought into their theory that square drive Is the best drive to NOT cam out and I invested in one of their "starter variety" packs. I found out that Torx out performs the square drive by miles. Still have a pretty good amount left and only go to them if I am desperate. I don't do a lot of "fine woodworking" though. Just my opinion.

Great job Logan. Very well explained and a good reference of woodworking hardware.

Lol. I was hesitant to watch a video on screws. But your points all hit a bullseye in my experience. I too am going square from now on. 😅

Thanks, Logan. Information appreciated. 🙂🙂

And one more thing I saw you sharpening around it off squared, bit on the 4 sides this is only making it smaller and more prone to round out. You should only touch up the tip in a downward force, therefore giving it a second life, but they’re cheap enough that they should just be replaced.

I’ve used square head (Robertson) screws for 30 years, but now I much prefer Torx. I especially prefer the Torx for pocket hole screws.

As a Canadian I mostly use Robertson (square drive) for everything from construction to cabinetry. They’re the most common here and #2 (red) is the most prevalent size. I’ve used Torx and they’re nice but generally more money. Buying good quality Robertson bits for power drivers is a must. I detest Philips for pretty much anything but drywall and when I buy something that comes with them I throw them away if I have a comparable size and style of Robertson. I just put up a new toilet tissue holder and ironically, I installed it with #2 Robertsons.😆

Much more informative and useful info than I was expecting. Thanks. Too bad I’m too cheap to throw out all those non-square drive screws I’ve accumulated.

There are more than three Robertson (square) bits, but three will cover everything most people need. McFeely's used to be almost entirely Robertson screws, then for awhile dropped most of them. Now, they seem to have a mix of drive types. Years ago, I bought concrete screws with Robertson drive from them. It works well in that high-torque application.

I generally use either Kreg washer head screws or SPAX flathead screws which are both square drive mostly for cabinetry and GRK screws for construction.

I learned a lot here, thanks for explaining.

good info, thanks!

I almost went with Square, Drive when I set up my shop, but I ended up going with torx, because I hated how the square drive tends to get stuck to the screw. The tendency to keep the drive straight is a huge plus though. Not knowing that before, I may have chosen differently. I’ve got a pretty good gash right now on my hand where the torx driver came off and sent the bit into my thumb meat.

Nice explanation. I agree that square drive is better but I have almost none of them and I usually can't find anyone who sells what I want. Sometimes can't even find it on-line. So I end up using much more Phillips than I like and am usually pleased when I can actually get the Torx variety. But I agree that square drive is better.

A reason for some "other" driver bits: I just finished a complete kitchen replacement with cabinets with Blum hinges. A couple of years ago we also redid our HVAC and the guys using Philips drivers camming out (and destroying the screwhead) instead of the clutch on their drivers drove me MAD! So, having been hyper-sensitized to using screwdrivers "wrong" when the guys started installing the hinges I dig some digging. I found that the more-or-less machine screws in the hinges were actually Pozidriv while they used Philips for the not-quite wood screws attaching the hinge to the face frame! They are quite similar, but with the high-precision screws that Blum uses it makes quite a bit of difference which bit you use: pick the wrong one and you are almost guaranteed a cam-out before the screw is seated. I also found that the "Pozidriv" bits from cheaper sets were not up to the task. I had to hunt on Amazon for European bits and drivers to get some that actually held onto the PZ screws as happened in the video with the "square drive" (sorry - American here. Though I am VERY familiar with McFeeleys...) Last point: screw quality and material make a BIG difference. "Orange" big-box screws tend to be less tightly QC'ed.... Also - about 20 years ago we had our redwood fence replaced. I hunted for stainless nails and screws which is when I found McFeeley's. Since then I tend to "stock" stainless screws as often as I can. If you consider the cost of fasteners vs the total cost of a project (including your time!) it is a small price to pay for the extra quality.

I use nothing but Torx. Never a problem.

Good points. Good video

Nice Video but i miss the link of the PDF. I personally have reduced everything to Torx. Commonly in use "here in Europe" is only T-20 and T-30 whereas everything between 3.5 - 6mm is T-20 (no idea what that is in freedom units). I also don't know what Torx screws you use but the ones that i use don't have the play you have been showing. Helps to have the right size of Torx bit on there and as said, nearly everything is T-20 and some bigger screws to screw something to the wall is T-30. As a consequence i also only have T-20 bits in my bit box. Squaredrive is not a thing here in europe - at all. Slotted usually only for hand usage, not with the power drill. Phillips is mostly used in cheap hardware store sets and i have started throwing all of them away.

Good video. Been using square drive for years, I think they’re the way to go for assembly and structurally. But I’m guilty for used for using drywall screws for light projects.

I love the square Robertson screw head. I used to get them from the big box store, however, now all you can get (New England) is Torx. They are really only good one time before they start going bad.

I've got no problem with square drive. Thanks to wood pier repair I have probably now driven more of them than all other types combined. With my woodworking, which skews heavily to repair (I'm thinking of you, Mr. dining room chair), I like to use the same screws as original, even though they might be on the bottom. This means slot screws. While these are much harder to use and often require two different size pilot holes, they are beautiful in a way modern screws are not. They can also develop a wonderful patina. I like to use them anywhere a screw is visible. I hang on to the old ones like gold and count myself lucky indeed when I stumble onto NOS. No zinc coating allowed.

4:58 square drive bit. 6:20 universal head across brands. What’s best way to use these? I find that the indentation on the screw)s head gets rounded.

There is 4 sizes of square screws, 4 (yellow), 6 (green), 8 (red), and. 10 (black). Drivers in Canada are colour matched to the screw size. Black drivers are also us3d for #12 screws.

Good basic information here, but I think a little more research is needed with an updated video. There are actually more than 20 sizes of Torx head screws from T1 to T100. Torx is a proprietary name. Generic ones are commonly called Star drive. Square drive heads are commonly sold in e sizes #1,#2,#3. I believe the Robertson scale has more, but I don’t use them. Maybe a Canadian friend can weigh in here. You will need more than a few sizes because screws come in different shaft sizes as well as length. I find #6 and #8 most useful in the shop, but I also stock #4 and #10. You will have to add head type to your assortment. Flat head screws are designed to recess into the wood either flush or fully recessed for a plug. Pan head screws do not recess into the wood and provide much more bearing surface. Round washer head screws provide even more bearing surface. Pocket hole screws come in a couple of variations but also have a wide bearing surface and do nit recess. So when you consider a screw, it is length, diameter and head type that come first. Drive type then comes into play. I strongly prefer square drive and use them almost exclusively. I like the McFeely brand. As for grinding the flats to restore a square drive, I would discourage that approach. You are changing the geometry of the driver. These things last a long time. Retire the worn driver and replace it. You got your money’s worth out of it by then. So a good assortment of screws for the shop would include several lengths, times at least two shaft diameters, times at least 2 head types. 5 or 6 lengths of screws multiplies to 20+ pretty quickly.

I prefer the square drive as well and converted to this exclusively when living in Mi and shopping at Menards. However when moving to Tn and forced to shop at the other Big Box stores I found it basically impossible to find square drives. Guess I'm going to have to shop online but when you need that odd size in the middle of the project this is annoying.

Like other folks here I'll stick with torx. I find them quicker to get the bit in the screw when removing screws. Robertson is kinda picky when you put it on the screw.

So, what are the bins behind you?

in my opinion, star (torx) screws are the the best! You don't have to deal with how much you push on the screw to drive it to avoid rounding the screw head, it's almost effortless, even in long 5", 6", and even 7" inch lengths, the driver is doing all of the work once you get the screw started. Plus on carpentry work I have removed blind headed screws, overdriven screws, with not problem. It's just a matter of probing the screw head with the bit until you find the right angle and out it comes. The only caveat I would mention is that some screws are not molded correctly and you don't get a tight screw head to bit contact, it's a little loose and this can cause some slippage and damage to the screw head and bit.

Used them all. Threw out ALL the straight-slot screws. When assembling a purchase that came with Philips I’ll use those sometimes if I can find the right size bit. Robertson all the way!! O, Canada! Metric hex are becoming more common - they’re good too if you take the trouble to match the driver with the head. And I do mean ‘take the trouble.’ Robertson Red Forever! Torx suck (sorry - woodworker technical term).

Good and informative video! But if I may be so bold to ask, what brand of work apron are you wearing? It just looks amazing and well-built.

I highly agree with LaVernSkarzensky on the Robertson's cam out vs Torx. Maybe this is because I usually find myself driving with a power tool. A couple other points: the Robertson is much more likely to get jambed on the bit. This may not seem like an issue until your bit has dropped for the 15th time upon final separation of your driver. (Not an issue for retained bits). Also, screw jacking can be avoided by placing a slight countersink on the pilot hole of the bottom piece.

I don't know how you strip out a torx head screw when removing, I've used them for years with no problems installing or removing. The square drive screws will slip out unless held in perfect alignment, I've even stop using them for pocket holes because of slipping out when driving.

Be nice if the link was there.

As an aside, I notice a lot of electrical equipment, particularly for high current or voltages, using Robertson drives. I assume for the better torque and ease of assembly.

the Philips screws I get packaged with something I purchased go straight in the garbage. I keep an assortment of sizes and lengths for this reason and they're all Robertson. All my Phillips screwdrivers are stripped anyway so they're useless anyway. lastly, have you ever tried to use a Phillips head screw to hang a picture in your igloo? .

Where is the link?

I lived in Canada for a little over six years, and the Robertson drive is prevalent. I have seen tests showing that Robertson is the best, which seems to be true in my experience. However, here in the USA, availability is a problem. Finding the size I want, with the drive type I want, in the finish that I want etc., is a nuisance. I currently have a small project that needs two different screw lengths. After a great deal of time searching, I had to settle for two different drive types (Phillips and Torx), and two different finishes. So, I would prefer to use Robertson drive, but finding them is a problem.

Makes sense. 👍🏻

In Belgium we use pozidrive screws a lot. Square drive sounds better tho but it´s not available here

I have a set with 9 Torx sizes.

Good video, but I think that you forgot to link the pdf to the description.

Link?

Where's the link. And what's mcpheley's or how do you spell it to get online

There are actually six robertson drive sizes, you see black occaisionally and yellow and then there is brown which I have but has never been used

Robertson bits will cam out or fall out if you are too aggressive with your drill. Use an impact and let the drill do the work and they will not come out as easy.

ROBERTSON drive

I found this video to be very informative to me. I'm beginning woodworking. I have 2 questions: 1) Where's the PDF? I did not find the link. 2) Where can I find that apron? It looks very durable and comfortable.

Where's the link?

All screw types have there uses, I have been working with screws for more than 50 years. You can get bad screws with all the different head types and good screws with all types of heads. The only screw that I grew to hate was the flat head such a pain.

I don’t know who this McFeeley fellow is but the square drive as you call it is actually a Canadian invention by Mr. Robertson and that’s all there’s to it I hate those damn Phillips screws. Phillips screws should go the way of the slotted screw

If you are talking woodworking then a wood screw needs a pilot hole from a tapered bit with countersink. I use slotted screws because I have several hundred pounds of them, with a pilot and the proper driver, the one with a tube that slides over the screw, they are no problems and don’t strip. If you have problems with Philips make sure you don’t have any Fearson screws or bits that you haven’t learned to tell apart. Fearson has only one size driver and is much better than Philips. I use mostly brass slotted and clock the heads for decorative feature. It is also a good idea to put a drop of glue on the screw before you drive it and you will never have a problem in the future.

Imho, from worst to best: slot, Phillips (strangely still used by lots of European manufacturers...🤮), PosiDrive (enhanced Phillips and far, far better - UK only? The proudly Canadian Robertson - FINALLY available in the US (what took you folks SO long?!) is really only available here in the UK as a pocket hole standard, so I go for Torx - generally I only use 3 sizes: T15, T20 and T25 (mainly T20) altho I take the point re there being only 3 sizes of Robertson. Until square drive/Robertson become widely available in the UK, I think Torx are best.

Slotted screws should be outlawed and torx should be the only screw provided the screws include the specific driver tip. I’ve stripped every slotted, phillips and square screw head design I’ve ever used.

Got to ask, what is up with the apron? The neck strap looks like you routinely have 30lbs of tools hanging from the apron.

Most common Robertson bits are 3 sizes 6 8. 10. But they come in smaller sizes to not very common

Robertson or nothing. Philips screws make me suicidal. Torx are starting to take over but the smaller the slot the worse they become.

Outside north America nobody heard of the square head. Today torx is dominating. Surprised usa has not "standardized" a screw with a 5 point star head.

Canadians incoming in 3,2....

Stumpy Nubs did a piece saying that in his work, drywall screws provided equal to or better than "wood screws." kzfaq.info/get/bejne/f5mdddmD2Ju2nZ8.html

There are an interesting number of errors he makes here. First off, he links to an HTML page, not a PDF. From that one page, there are a number of other HTML pages that are linked. Not a PDF to be found. If he had read that first one (Screw Sizes and Applications), he would have quickly seen there are five sizes of square head, head sizes, not three. (And trust me, that #4 is about as valuable as it gets - trying to get a slotten #4 screw into a small furniture door is, well, pointless!) Look, I have no complaints about the main thrust of what he's talking about. I've been using Robertson screws for 25-30 years now and have not looked back. It's just the details that I do expect more from him. He's a good explainer and has been around for a long time. It's just the details, always the details that slip one up. After all, isn't that why we measure twice? :>)

Interesting topic which clearly has roiled the comment section regarding square versus torx. Let me instigate more controversy by stating that if you are doing antique furniture restoration or high end reproductions, you will be using slotted screws unless you want to provoke the conservators and traditionalists!

its called a Robertson.

Besides mounting a hinge or handle or a pull of some sort, why do you need screws to fasten pieces together? Joinery like wedged mortise and tenon, a dado, or a dovetail should cover most connections between wooden pieces.

Just did a complete overhaul of my fasteners and got rid of almost all the Phillips. Good riddance. All my wood screws are torx now, except for pocket hole screws, which are square. And a couple decorative brass flatheads.

With all due respect….you screwed up again. You said that Robertson, (you called it “square drive”) came in three sizes. Wrong. They come in FOUR sizes. The colours of the screwdriver handles are Black, Red, Green and Yellow.

This shows almost no depth of investigation at all. Clearly you do not know much, but you do not need to stay that way! The JIT Japanese Philips head screws/drivers are much better than the US ones you may have run across. You seem to think Robertson and square drive are the same thing... Robertson drives have a taper (that square drives do not) and I prefer the Robertson drives to square drives. My own rating is Robertson, JIT, square drive, Phillips, flat head. When you get down to flat head, I prefer the non-tapered drives as for me, they do not cam out as easily. My suggestion is for you to get some of each type of screws and drivers and try them out, you may be surprised what you like and do not like. Also, where is the link you mentioned in the video? C'mon man, you can do better than this!

It's good to see the Woodglut has new instructions to save my money and energy to build it.

Nice ad...

Um, your close-up shots have the screws pointing at the camera so we cannot see anything and your distance shot has them facing sideways to the camera so we would be able to see the screw if it weren't so far away. THIS IS BACKWARDS!

You Americans are about 50 years behind on this brilliant bit of CANADIAN technology !!! Phillips drive is for drywall screws.

Need EIGHT minutes to tell us about a screw. And star screws are much better than square. No contest.

Sorry, dude. I use square drive drywall screws for everything.

Square drive???….They’re called ROBERTSON.

Complete and utter bullshit. There are reasons for a fully threaded screw: e.g. to avoid movement of boards and thus noise e.g. for flooring. And Torx are NOT built for „construction“ and a good driver will hold it perfectly straight. And there are a lot of Torx sizes. And advantage is: momentum/force is distributed on six flanks rather than four (Robertson, Pozidriv, Philips), which is a big advantage for cranking with a lot of force.

I am very thankful for the kzfaq.infoUgkxbnOKZBE4evMO5V2vroHeCjq6d_MV6wJO that has been a tremendous help to me in building a perfect outdoor shed. I have been facing many challenges and difficulties for a long time, but this plan has guided me to correct the mistakes during the process. I am impressed by the projects and I express my gratitude to the creator of this collection of plans.