Doesn't this have the side-effect of you being 15 miles from the thing you were working on? ;)

While fighting off the VELOCIRAPTORS? I remember that...

UPHILL BOTH WAYS!

Thumb and forefinger ? Posh that , we just hammered them in with our forehead Oi Oi

I think it all goes down to that taper, I think I saw somewhere the point was to prevent over torquing, which with modern drill and drivers that have a clutch should never be an issue. Not to mention the fact I almost always end up using the wrong size driver just because I can

I'm sometimes tinkering with old applicances that have obviously been designed for low cost, and I have ruined quite a few Philips screws while unscrewing them because they were made of rather soft (and presumably cheap) steel. Combine that with a bit of accidential cam out, and you have a small area of contact where the screwdriver just reams out the screw. That never happened with Torx. I was initially skeptical of buying yet another set of screwdrivers (as if we did not have enough systems yet), but I've come to like them.

@@rabiatorthegreat6163 sometimes I find flat head to be easier on those cheap Philips.

@@rabiatorthegreat6163 You have to ensure that you're using the exact fitting PH driver for Philips screws, otherwise they're getting chewed up. The right size is generally the absolute largest size that will fit in at all, and have the least amount of wiggle. It sometimes looks ridiculous because the driver is sometimes almost bigger than the screwhead, so the proper driver selection can sometimes turn out a little counter intuitive. Another thing to worry about is JIS screws which will extra easily strip with a Philips driver. That's Japanese and sometimes Korean electronics. Maaaybe Hong Kong from way back. Not seen on mainland China products so far. They are supposed to have an extra marking of a dot but it's often times not there or seemingly not there, we're dealing with old garbage right. I also resent the video for saying that you can drive PZ screws with a Philips driver, or that you only need PZ2 - using the wrong driver family or wrong size leads to regrettable outcomes. Well JIS drivers are more or less good on Philips screws but not the other way around. That being said if you have the opportunity to leave Philips behind for good, i fully support taking that opportunity and i do like Torx. Except Torx is so good at torque transfer that you can sometimes shear the whole screw head off. And then what do you do? You can't use a screw extractor. New fear unlocked?

@@fulconandroadcone9488 "Over torquing protection" phrase was put out to mask the fact that a few cam outs on a small Phillips head is all it takes to make its screw almost impossible to undo (without extracting). Same with small hexes, though instead they just look like damn circles after that.

thx, finnaly i understand why its so much better. I was always wondering, why the PZ is so much better, even thought the small cross doesnt even touch the screw

Oh very sharp and finally a good explanation. I was certain that it had something to do with angle selection but i never understood what angles were the crucial ones. And yeah i have a hilarious set of PZ bits which are made wrong and where the additional little cosmetic protrusins are rotated a little, they're machined with an error... work just the same as any normal ones since these little ones don't really even touch down.

The additional Points on the driver are also a result of how the driver is beeing manufactured

Yes you’re right 🧑I’m also confused until I buy Dewalt screws bites set and see the difference by myself

@Dan Dearinger no one cares and it doesn't work

The most important difference between PH and PZ is that PH has a built-in limit for the torque you can apply to the screw due to the slightly conical shape of the flanges. This was intentional so the driver will slip before overtorqing the thread. But since we use electrical screwdrivers nowadays people always tried to overcome the slipping by applying more pressure until the slip anyway and ruin the head of the screw. PZ has straigt flanges on the main X so it doesnt slip but makes a torque-limiter in the screwdriver mandatory.

Neither of them should be used anymore.

For example if you use the brand spaxx you can use the driver bit T20 from 3.5x15 way up to 5x100mm and if you use the original spaxx bit the screw doesn't wobble at all But they are pretty expensive

@@a100independent6 Nice to know thanks. I loved the spax wirox for decking, no messing, no hassle.

No worries Allan! 👍👊

I always thought THIS was the main reason for using POSIDRIV, nothing to do with extra points of contact. The torque applied at the centre must be tiny compared to that at the ends of the four slots.

Thank you so much and welcome to the channel! 👍👊

Why is it "needless to say"? I prefer robbies to torx.

Mr Robertson's invention beats Torx or Pozi......all day long.

Cheers James! 👍👊

Used a lot by trades over here too - depends on the job. I see a lot of Torx in window fitting especially. Pozi are still generally more common though - just about every kitchen for a start. 😀👍

Gosforth Handyman there is of course the Swiss “if it’s more expensive, it must be better...”

I read that about Phillips/Pozi, but it's gonna tear up the screw heads and the bit after driving a few, so why use it with modern devices? Personally I've had issues recently with removing screws with torn up Pozi heads that I wished were Torx.

This a cross-over I did NOT expect.

Sorry for the slight delay! Missed this one. I've heard of the torque limiting from a few sources but can't find anything about this in the original patent. Needs further investigation... 🤔😁👍

It is a fact that the Phillips head causes the driver to cam out easier than Pozidriv. This is because the flutes are tapered. It also means that Phillips screws need more downwards force on the driver to not cam out early. Now there's a lot of talk about Phillips being bad, and while there are truths there's also ways to avoid or minimize the problems. First thing I think of is the driver size. Sure a PH2 may fit a lot of screw sizes but it's not right for all of them. You should make sure you have drivers sized all the way from PH00 to PH3. Any larger than that is special and you will most probably not encounter them. It's the same for Pozidriv you need several sizes to have the right driver for the screws. Using the Phillips driver I prefer I can hold the screw with the driver attached horizontal and the driver will not fall out. And yes I'm only holding the screw. I can tilt it even further and the driver should stay in place until about a negative 45 degrees. This is decent screws made in China, but with Chinese screws quality really wary. Some are good while others are really worthless. Next is something I was told by an engineer. Once the driver has cam out three times the driver should be thrown away and replaced. This can get costly with screwdrivers but actually works. With driver bits being sp cheap throw them away after the first cam out. The reason is that not only does cam out damage the screwhead but it also wears down the driver. My preferred drivers are quite expensive and the metal is very strong. The driver head on them also have a coating of industrial diamond dust which bites into the screws and keep them in place. There is also paste with diamond dust that can be used to coat the drivers, but I've never used that. I'm sure there are driver bits that are just as well made but I've never encountered any. Instead the bits are cheap enough I have no problem throwing them away when they start to wear. In short, use the right size driver and don't use worn down drivers. I'd go as far as saying that these things are important for all kinds of screwheads. Quality drivers and the correct size makes a huge difference. Now there is one more screw head to keep in mind and that's JIS. This looks a lot like Phillips screws but they are actually a Japanese standard and not quite compatible with Phillips head drivers. One way to recognize a JIS it to look for a single dot punched between two of the lobes. If it's there it's a JIS screw. Now a JIS driver will fit a Phillips screw head decently, but a Phillips driver won't fit a JIS screw. At least that's the standards, but to my experience a lot of Phillips drivers are actually cut so they do fit decently in a JIS screw head. Either that or the JIS screws I've had weren't quite following the JIS standard.

Phillips screws were not designed with torque limiting in mind, it was something that was noticed after use and spun as something positive to limit over tightening.

No worries - you'll curse every time you use a Pozi screwdriver in a Phillips screw now! 😂

@@GosforthHandyman I have a philips screwdriver in my toolbag with PH2 written on the handle with a marker. I am surprised how often I have had to use it to assemble flat pack furniture type jobs.

Cheers Kris! Hope you found it useful - the next one about all the different sizes I use will link in with this. 👍

@@GosforthHandyman I found tons of great information. Love such technical vids. Thank you!

No worries! 👍

No worries Justin! 👍

Thank you 👍

Too right. Hope I don't get demonetised! 😂

Neil Snape there are also other types of screwing, but we shall not go into that here.

No worries bud! 👊👍

I love the Turbogold on the smaller shorter screws. I'm happy with gold plus for everyday, good screws. I do like Reisser cutter as well, good for cutting into edgegrain on plywood.

@@briannewton3535 yep goldscrew for most agree. Reisser are great for boring through if using just the combi... They dont have any pulling in power though but great for stuff like door linings.

I've found the Forgefast brand from Toolstation really great, and the price is pretty well in-line, enough for me to justify it. I can't stand camming out when driving screws at awkward angles. Really fast to drive in, I think this says it all: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mbGepMVhz97Fcpc.html

@@DUIofPhysics yep I have that brand of screw in my eBay watch list. I wasn't aware Toolstation stocked them! Still got plenty of torx left before I repurchase. Thanks for the info!

Ha! Another Peter Millard fan!

Yeah, defo. If I was surrounded by Robertson I'd use them. Just glad I'm not surrounded by Phillips. 😂

I do really like Robertson but they're just too uncommon in the UK so you'd constantly be swapping bits. I want to visit Canada one day so yeah, Robertson rocks! 😂👍

Depends what you're doing... I'm an electrician and I use Robertson all the time here in sunny (heh) southampton. Probably annoys the bloke who comes behind me but they're so handy especially when working at height. pop one on the driver tip, and it is staying there till YOU want it off

Yeah, totally agree on slotted for decorative / period use. They do look nicer... as you say, providing they don't snap. 😀

I haven't seen Pozi ones m'fraid - Axminster to Torx ones though... www.axminster.co.uk/ujk-technology-washer-head-pocket-hole-screws-fine-thread-ax884993 I all honesty I'd stick with Robertson as the bit grip makes life a bit easier. 👍

Both Rutlands and Axminster do pocket hole screws with Torx heads - probably a better choice for pocket hole joinery since the Torx profile tends to guide the bit into the correct "straight on" position (as does the Robertson) - I've accidentally chewed up a few PZ heads when using them in pocket holes in the past.

I found Kreg screws work fine with Kreg bits. It is an expensive combination though

If you don't mind a moment of faff, then it's cheapest to just flop a washer onto the stem of a standard pz2 countersunk screw. Works an absolute treat, especially with a bit of clear shank on the screws to help pull things together. I use the larger Kreg HD setup fairly regularly for hefty exterior timber jobs, and the genuine fixings are just eye watering in the UK at the moment. I have now found that Timberlok type fixings (and possibly 6mm washer head Spax Wirox type screws) will fit the system very nicely.

Cheers Gary - no worries! 👍